The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life. - Page 12 - Talk About Marriage
Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

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post #166 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 12:02 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

uhtred

I do think you shy away from really direct questions and that doesn't help you.

Like:
Why are you consistently dressing in a provocative manner?

It ought to be a even toned open ended question. Maybe she was hoping it would put HER in the mood.

But either way - the avoidance of direct comms is hurting you.

Including direct statements:
It is not nice that you pretend to be clueless about sex. I don't like it.






Quote:
Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
I don't know.

Is she simply selfish? It fits the pattern, she gets what she wants, does as little as she can. OTOH, her behavior matches some of the non-sexual women who have posted on this thread about how sex just doesn't "work" for them - its not something that they ever desire.

Is her lack of sex simply a choice, or is it like a physical disability, something that she simply cannot change and that it is unreasonable for me to object to?

Is she a good person, or have I put her on a pedestal because I don't want to admit to myself that I've dedicated most of my life to making someone undeserving happy?


Your "simple" solution doesn't work - I've tried that. In 30 years I've tried a lot, including limiting affection, etc in response to her limiting sex. It doesn't change things. Is it because she really doesn't understand the issue, or because she is just stubborn and knows she will "win" in the end?

The only thing that has ever worked was when years ago I got to the point where I was planning to leave, started to tell her, and our sex life suddenly improved tremendously - but it didn't last.

A threat to leave might work, but I won't do that. Also, as I've said, I don't want sex under threat - misses the entire point of being desired. Same reason I have no interest in escorts - what is the appeal of a woman who has to be paid to want to touch you?

Before the obvious answer - I'm fully aware that the situation is not going to change because I'm not willing to "make" it change. Doing that would make things overall worse than they are now.
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post #167 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 01:00 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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Originally Posted by uhtred View Post

She wants sexual activity infrequently, maybe every couple of weeks. When we have sex, she generally seems to enjoy it, seems to O (and claims to), and claims to have enjoyed it afterwards.
Interesting that you question her claims, I mean after so many years together, I am with my husband less than a decade and just started experiencing Os together with him, he can tell the difference between the intensity based upon my involuntary movements.

Is there any hidden lack of comfortability or trust here I wonder?

Quote:
We long ago added toys to are sex life, and she now essentially always wants to have an O with a vibrator. I can give her an O by oral, but it takes a long time and she prefers quicker. I've offered her stand-alone Os, but she has only accepted once in 25 years.
Were you ever resentful over her use with the vibrator?
What about offering to combine the use of both? It can lead to multiple O's for her.


Quote:
Occasionally (few x / year) she really wants PIV, but it makes her sore. There is one position that sometimes works for her, but is very awkward for me. I do it as long as I can.
It is likely that she can sense your feeling of awkwardness, which could lead to embarrassment for her.
Do you become awkward because it's a painful position for your body or an emotional awkwardness?

Quote:
She used to give me BJs on my birthday. When I asked if she would do them more often she told me no, she thought they were horrible and abusive.
Any abuse in her past?

Quote:
Now that PIV is almost always out, no BJs, all she can do is give me HJs. The problem is that quite frankly she isn't very good, and won't take any gentle suggestions or requests to change things. She then complains that I'm very slow to finish and her arm gets tired.
Interesting, both of you could have negative emotions here, it could be displayed non verbally (that you're annoyed) without you realising, she could take your suggestions as to be critical and then doesn't want to participate anymore.

Quote:
Every once in a while I can get her to try something new for me, she will say it was fun, but then never do it again (even if I ask). Back to the same HJs. (??) I am always willing and eager to do anything she wants in bed, and do my best to guess what she wants since she rarely says.
Again, you are questioning whether she enjoys herself, so she's either faking it or just tried it and it's not for her.
Clear communication would have solved this, how is both of your communication regarding sex, is it clear, honest and concise or do either of you skirt around issues?

Quote:
She rarely wants sex but every evening wears sexy lingerie around the house and appreciates my telling her how attractive she is in it, and appreciates hugs, kisses, etc. Recently she has been wearing the especially enticing stuff that normally implied an interest in sex that night, and has said we should get bed after dinner, but almost every time has been too tired when it was time. (??)
I find sexy lingerie uncomfortable to wear for normal use and only use it to entice my husband for sex, but yes it does give you a sexy boost if you received compliments, I'm wondering if she's seeking validation from you.

Quote:
So: why complain that I'm slow to finish, but not want to do things she has previously said were fun that work better for me?

How can BJs be OK on my birthday, but absolutely disgusting and abusive at other times?

Why claim to, and appear to greatly enjoy sex, but always find excuses not to do so?
You have to sort out your communication. It's imperative.

Quote:
(and no, she won't answer these questions, or answers with a specific reason for a specific thing, not the general answer)
Start by asking about MC for your communication issues, honestly when it comes to sex in marriage, you need to know where you stand, so then you can accept things and move on, otherwise it's forever questioning her motives.

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post #168 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

What is confusing is that she gives every impression of usually REALLY enjoying sex when it happens, and claims to have really enjoyed it. Yet she rarely wants it. I have a difficult time understanding this combination.

I got her the vibrator and we use it during sex, or more precisely I use it on her during sex. I can give her an O other ways, but it takes a long time and she prefers me to get her off with the vibrator. I have no issues with it at all.

The position she likes (lying flat facdedown on the bed) is good for her because it leads to very shallow penetration - and sometimes good g-spot stimulation. I usually use a vibrator on her at the same time. I'm happy to do it, but its a little akward and that combined with the shallow penetration makes it difficult to keep an erection. (I am in my 50s, things don't always work as well as they did when I was 20). Other than that physical issue, I enjoy it because she enjoys it so much,

She has never hinted at abuse in the past, but its possible.

I think she is seeking validation from the sexy clothes. I'm happy with that, it just seems odd to want to wear really sexy stuff, but not want sex. Validation is probably it.

Communication is difficult. I accept part of the responsibility for this. I was brought up to believe that sex was bad / evil. I don't think that anymore, but the remains of that make me very sensitive to rejection, especially the "why would you want that?" or other rejection that implies that I'm unreasonable in my sexual interests.




Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsAldi View Post
Interesting that you question her claims, I mean after so many years together, I am with my husband less than a decade and just started experiencing Os together with him, he can tell the difference between the intensity based upon my involuntary movements.

Is there any hidden lack of comfortability or trust here I wonder?



Were you ever resentful over her use with the vibrator?
What about offering to combine the use of both? It can lead to multiple O's for her.




It is likely that she can sense your feeling of awkwardness, which could lead to embarrassment for her.
Do you become awkward because it's a painful position for your body or an emotional awkwardness?



Any abuse in her past?



Interesting, both of you could have negative emotions here, it could be displayed non verbally (that you're annoyed) without you realising, she could take your suggestions as to be critical and then doesn't want to participate anymore.



Again, you are questioning whether she enjoys herself, so she's either faking it or just tried it and it's not for her.
Clear communication would have solved this, how is both of your communication regarding sex, is it clear, honest and concise or do either of you skirt around issues?



I find sexy lingerie uncomfortable to wear for normal use and only use it to entice my husband for sex, but yes it does give you a sexy boost if you received compliments, I'm wondering if she's seeking validation from you.



You have to sort out your communication. It's imperative.



Start by asking about MC for your communication issues, honestly when it comes to sex in marriage, you need to know where you stand, so then you can accept things and move on, otherwise it's forever questioning her motives.

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post #169 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 01:54 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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Originally Posted by MEM2020 View Post
There's a massive difference. Massive.

Normal affairs are ugly because they are:
- Deceitful
- Could cause emotional entanglements which disrupt/end the marriage
- Could cause social humiliation for your spouse if your affair partner goes public
- Could cause financial distress if your affair partner gets pregnant hits you with a paternity suit

The real conversation is: I'm not going to leave YOU, over a lack of sex. But if you choose to leave ME over doing something with others you refuse to do with me - that's your choice.

But I would say that any spouse who refuses sex, and leaves over this type outsourcing loves themself WAY WAY WAY more than they love their partner.
MEM, I think the difference is between the message you send and the one received. The message you send is "If it isn't important, you won't mind".

The one received is rather different. I suspect what most people would hear in that situation is
"MEM, I have here a wooden fencepost. I could hit you in the face with it, or hit you in the testicles with it. I've decided to hit you in the testicles because I think that has less impact and less side potentially negative side effects".

You are not going to be pleased that I'm being so considerate, you're going to be incensed that I think hitting you anywhere with a lump of wood is an acceptable thing to do. The chances are the other person doesn't feel that you committing adultery on a commercial basis is "better" than doing it ad-lib. Like in the analogy with the fencepost, it's being hit that's the issue, not where or how.

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post #170 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 02:06 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

@uhtred: Sounds to me that there was either (or maybe both) sexual abuse in her past or very strong FOO upbringing that sex is bad and wrong and evil and to be avoided. Very hard to reprogram your wife to eliminate these thoughts and feelings, and she has to want it for herself. So far she shows no interest in undergoing the difficult and uncomfortable process.

If you were going to destabilize the relationship, I would not ask for sex as a condition of staying. I would ask for her to seek counselling on why she thinks sex is bad and wrong and evil, and why she thinks your sex life is normal and acceptable. In the meantime, I would try to find a sex therapist whose views line up with yours (that what is bad and wrong is for a married couple to have infrequent and limited repertoire sex when one of them wants more frequent and more varied sessions). I think, if there is any hope of progress (which I tend to doubt - but that is me), that you will make more gains asking her to work on her mental state than by asking her for sex.

When you can see it coming, duck!
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post #171 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 02:43 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
I don't know.

Is she simply selfish? It fits the pattern, she gets what she wants, does as little as she can. OTOH, her behavior matches some of the non-sexual women who have posted on this thread about how sex just doesn't "work" for them - its not something that they ever desire.

Is her lack of sex simply a choice, or is it like a physical disability, something that she simply cannot change and that it is unreasonable for me to object to?

Is she a good person, or have I put her on a pedestal because I don't want to admit to myself that I've dedicated most of my life to making someone undeserving happy?


Your "simple" solution doesn't work - I've tried that. In 30 years I've tried a lot, including limiting affection, etc in response to her limiting sex. It doesn't change things. Is it because she really doesn't understand the issue, or because she is just stubborn and knows she will "win" in the end?

The only thing that has ever worked was when years ago I got to the point where I was planning to leave, started to tell her, and our sex life suddenly improved tremendously - but it didn't last.

Yes, it's selfishness. Absolutely. No question.

The bolded part above more or less proves this.

I face the same things in my marriage - when I speak up, things change, but only for a short while. I get through to my wife, she seems to understand, then falls back into the same-old, same-old. Despite the fact that our relationship is better during these periods, and BOTH of us are happier. Happy wife, happy life. Same thing for husbands.

But as far as selfishness goes, yes, there's no other reason for it. Marriages work because both partners provide for each other's needs, and many of those needs are not necessarily our own. We don't do these things begrudgingly or reluctantly or with any sort of resentment - because we love our partners and want to make them happy as best we can. A good partner does these things with a smile on their face, because it's for the person we love, and therefore it benefits us, as well.

In some cases, the person feels that one or two of these needs are above and beyond the scope of a normal relationship, or (when it comes to sex) x-amount of times per month is sufficient. I've used this analogy here before - my wife likes it when I hold her hand. Imagine what she would think (what ANYone would think) if I refused to hold her hand every now and again, and said "I held your hand last week" or "All you ever want to do is hold my hand" or "That's all you want me for".

It's ludicrous when you think of it that way, but that's how some people feel about sex. I am not a hand-holder. I'm just not. I don't hate doing it, but I get nothing out of it, and I never think "Gee, I'd REALLY love to hold her hand right now!". But I know SHE likes it, requires it from me, gets something out of it, and likes it when I do it - so I freakin' do it, without her asking.

Now, the people who think that's a silly analogy - I get it. Apples and oranges. But is it really? Is it really so difficult to have sex with the person you love and who loves you back? Is it really that difficult to take 5, 10, 20 minutes out of your day, twice a week? To do something with, and for, your partner?

For those rare few who get nothing out of sex, then yes, it IS selfish. Because what you get out of it is a happy partner who feels loved and cared for and thought about.

And isn't that the entire freakin' point of marriage? Or is it solely about you?
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post #172 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 03:52 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

There is a lot of tip toeing around this. Yes her behaviour is selfish, yes she may well love and value herself and her own happiness well above the OP's. That is all bad but is forgivable and understandable.

The part that is so hard to read about is the wearing lingerie around the house. It comes across as a very mean thing to do. Being mean to your partner is just not on. You can love yourself more, you can be a LD person but when it stoops down to being a mean person that should be a bar too low to live with.

OP you have stated she is an intelligent women, she must understand what she is doing is nasty. To me it seems she views you as a very weak man, she knows you will just plod along with her unacceptable behaviour and do nothing about it.

If you loved yourself as much as she loves herself then things might get better. As it stands you have over valued her and under valued yourself.
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post #173 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 04:06 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
What is confusing is that she gives every impression of usually REALLY enjoying sex when it happens, and claims to have really enjoyed it. Yet she rarely wants it. I have a difficult time understanding this combination.

I got her the vibrator and we use it during sex, or more precisely I use it on her during sex. I can give her an O other ways, but it takes a long time and she prefers me to get her off with the vibrator. I have no issues with it at all.

The position she likes (lying flat facdedown on the bed) is good for her because it leads to very shallow penetration - and sometimes good g-spot stimulation. I usually use a vibrator on her at the same time. I'm happy to do it, but its a little akward and that combined with the shallow penetration makes it difficult to keep an erection. (I am in my 50s, things don't always work as well as they did when I was 20). Other than that physical issue, I enjoy it because she enjoys it so much,

She has never hinted at abuse in the past, but its possible.

I think she is seeking validation from the sexy clothes. I'm happy with that, it just seems odd to want to wear really sexy stuff, but not want sex. Validation is probably it.

Communication is difficult. I accept part of the responsibility for this. I was brought up to believe that sex was bad / evil. I don't think that anymore, but the remains of that make me very sensitive to rejection, especially the "why would you want that?" or other rejection that implies that I'm unreasonable in my sexual interests.
I'm definitely not an expert on this subject (other than being similar to her in some ways) but it's very possible to enjoy some/all aspects of sex in the moment (only) and yet rarely or never want it. I had zero desire for sex but I could (and did) reliably orgasm. I looked at that as just something that my body was capable of in the moment. Sort of an involuntary response with no emotional component to it or desire on my part to even have one -- except that my husband expected me to. And I had absolutely no interest in that until the next time I needed to produce that response.

A key difference between your wife and me is that I generally did whatever it was my husband wanted, when he wanted, without questioning him as to why he might want whatever it was. I might have thought it was all tiresome but I didn't consider it unreasonable for a normal person to want what he wanted. I knew I wasn't normal. Apparently, your wife thinks she is.
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post #174 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 07:12 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

First off, I'm not claiming this strategy is a magic wand.

It merely creates some balance.

So let's look at life in the MEM binary star system. M2 has - created a massive gravitational field - through a mix of nature and nurture. I've never come close achieving escape velocity. Not even halfway there. So I'm in a hyper stable orbit for good or bad (mostly bit not always very good).

I can't leave her because I am unable to leave her.

But and it is a gigantic but - that doesn't mean I'm incapable of independent action. And I am capable of doing what needs being done even if there is some chance SHE MIGHT LEAVE ME. Might escape my orbit.

And that's ultimately the entire difference between a marriage like mine, where the power dynamic is decidedly skewed in favor of your partner, and a marriage where you get totally pancaked.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawney Beane View Post
MEM, I think the difference is between the message you send and the one received. The message you send is "If it isn't important, you won't mind".

The one received is rather different. I suspect what most people would hear in that situation is
"MEM, I have here a wooden fencepost. I could hit you in the face with it, or hit you in the testicles with it. I've decided to hit you in the testicles because I think that has less impact and less side potentially negative side effects".

You are not going to be pleased that I'm being so considerate, you're going to be incensed that I think hitting you anywhere with a lump of wood is an acceptable thing to do. The chances are the other person doesn't feel that you committing adultery on a commercial basis is "better" than doing it ad-lib. Like in the analogy with the fencepost, it's being hit that's the issue, not where or how.
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post #175 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 07:44 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

Sawney,

So let's talk about what this really is. Really is. Not what it might 'look' like or how someone might 'claim' to perceive this.

This - outsourcing theme has nothing to do with fairness. Nothing. Because at the boundary condition it's laughable. Said boundary being - your spouse has completely shut down sex and has signaled non verbally it ain't ever coming back.

And yet that same spouse has now begun to wage total war against you for telling them you plan to outsource in a low risk manner.

That my man has nothing remotely to do with fairness. That is solely about power. About control. About selfishness.

So when someone chooses to characterize, or more precisely mischaracterize something I am doing FOR me, as something I am doing TO them, I just shrug my shoulders and say: You can demonstrate that you consider sex utterly unimportant - by shutting it down. But if you then turn around and claim it is actually very important, enough to end the marriage over - then all I can suggest is that you seek hypocrisy therapy.

In all sexless marriages, the refuser has managed to pull off the ultimate optical illusion in which: Chronic sexual rejection is at MOST a misdemeanor, and outsourcing of ANY type is a capitol offense.

Or the refused is not only unwilling to leave (as I would be), but unwilling to do anything that MIGHT cause their partner to leave them.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawney Beane View Post
MEM, I think the difference is between the message you send and the one received. The message you send is "If it isn't important, you won't mind".

The one received is rather different. I suspect what most people would hear in that situation is
"MEM, I have here a wooden fencepost. I could hit you in the face with it, or hit you in the testicles with it. I've decided to hit you in the testicles because I think that has less impact and less side potentially negative side effects".

You are not going to be pleased that I'm being so considerate, you're going to be incensed that I think hitting you anywhere with a lump of wood is an acceptable thing to do. The chances are the other person doesn't feel that you committing adultery on a commercial basis is "better" than doing it ad-lib. Like in the analogy with the fencepost, it's being hit that's the issue, not where or how.
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post #176 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 08:30 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

This if friggin depressing....
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post #177 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 09:11 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
Communication is difficult. I accept part of the responsibility for this. I was brought up to believe that sex was bad / evil. I don't think that anymore, but the remains of that make me very sensitive to rejection, especially the "why would you want that?" or other rejection that implies that I'm unreasonable in my sexual interests.
Your story makes a lot more sense to me now. I kind of understand how you two have this dynamic together with each other. It is half as much coming from you.

You hear a lot of us asking why you don't verbally challenge her more often. You usually don't actually answer this. I get why that is now.

Brother...now is the time to do a literal 180 and just TALK to her, risking everything, risking rejection and being branded evil and whatever else she can throw at you. Toss those shackles off your feet and walk, man!

Its now or never. You either cast your demons aside and align with your natural sexual self (including standing up for your healthy sex life with your wife)...or you submit to those false messages that you are evil and let them drown your voice forever, never to be heard in real life and therefore, no good raunchy nookie like you wish you could have will ever be possible...with your WIFE, no less!

Go to an exorcist, a psychologist, a hypnotist or other shaman of your choice...get rid of that demon and fight for your sexual self.

Remember the goal of feminism: Making sure only alphas get laid!
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post #178 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 09:49 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

I haven't been clear. It was tough but a year or two ago I did do that. I told her how I felt, what it would take to make me happy. How things seemed unbalanced. Since she seemed unclear on what I wanted, I gave a clear example of what would be an OK sex life.

She said no. She said that having sex that often would feel like a job and she would resent me. That is when she said just how awful oral sex was for her, how disgusting and abusive and that my giving her oral was completely different from her doing it for me. She complained that this had come out of the blue and why couldn't i ask nicely. (which I'd done before and of course been turned down).

In her opinion, our sex life is good, I'm just completely unreasonable in my desires. She thinks that she does all sorts of things (unspecified) for me (in bed and out).

Some of the LD women here seem to understand. To my wife, sex is bad, a thing to be avoided, something women do *for* selfish men who demand it. There is something wrong with me for wanting it. Her feelings are completely normal, she has no desire at all to change them.


That is why I started this by saying that I knew things wouldn't change.

I've already been branded as evil and a pervert.

Or its all a show she puts on - but even then, clearly she doesn't want sex, so why should I push it. A therapist might convince here that she *should* have sex with me, but won't make her enjoy it.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Faithful Wife View Post
Your story makes a lot more sense to me now. I kind of understand how you two have this dynamic together with each other. It is half as much coming from you.

You hear a lot of us asking why you don't verbally challenge her more often. You usually don't actually answer this. I get why that is now.

Brother...now is the time to do a literal 180 and just TALK to her, risking everything, risking rejection and being branded evil and whatever else she can throw at you. Toss those shackles off your feet and walk, man!

Its now or never. You either cast your demons aside and align with your natural sexual self (including standing up for your healthy sex life with your wife)...or you submit to those false messages that you are evil and let them drown your voice forever, never to be heard in real life and therefore, no good raunchy nookie like you wish you could have will ever be possible...with your WIFE, no less!

Go to an exorcist, a psychologist, a hypnotist or other shaman of your choice...get rid of that demon and fight for your sexual self.
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post #179 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-19-2016, 01:01 AM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

H,
This is the part where I see parallels. I recall the time M2 and I were having a calm but very blunt exchange about conflict styles and she said in a completely even tone of voice: I don't get mad, I get even.

Which is less true today than back then - but still true at times.

When M2 doesn't want to do something she claims to not be able to understand what I want. Suddenly her IQ drops about 50 points. Now I just laugh when that happens. Tell her: Babe, I can't make you do this. If you aren't going to - just say and I'll come up with a work around. Sometimes - she will smile and go with the flow. Others she says: that's probably best.

U2's little lingerie stunt feels very get even-ish to me. And part of their marital imbalance is Uhtred's response to this type thing.

My simplest script is often the best: Babe, tell me why you are upset with me. I don't like it when you are being mean, especially when I don't know why.








Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsHolland View Post
There is a lot of tip toeing around this. Yes her behaviour is selfish, yes she may well love and value herself and her own happiness well above the OP's. That is all bad but is forgivable and understandable.

The part that is so hard to read about is the wearing lingerie around the house. It comes across as a very mean thing to do. Being mean to your partner is just not on. You can love yourself more, you can be a LD person but when it stoops down to being a mean person that should be a bar too low to live with.

OP you have stated she is an intelligent women, she must understand what she is doing is nasty. To me it seems she views you as a very weak man, she knows you will just plod along with her unacceptable behaviour and do nothing about it.

If you loved yourself as much as she loves herself then things might get better. As it stands you have over valued her and under valued yourself.
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post #180 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-19-2016, 01:26 AM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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H,
This is the part where I see parallels. I recall the time M2 and I were having a calm but very blunt exchange about conflict styles and she said in a completely even tone of voice: I don't get mad, I get even.

Which is less true today than back then - but still true at times.

When M2 doesn't want to do something she claims to not be able to understand what I want. Suddenly her IQ drops about 50 points. Now I just laugh when that happens. Tell her: Babe, I can't make you do this. If you aren't going to - just say and I'll come up with a work around. Sometimes - she will smile and go with the flow. Others she says: that's probably best.

U2's little lingerie stunt feels very get even-ish to me. And part of their marital imbalance is Uhtred's response to this type thing.

My simplest script is often the best: Babe, tell me why you are upset with me. I don't like it when you are being mean, especially when I don't know why.
It works bc you break the cycle. MrU is participating in the cycle and my bet is that is why his wife is upping the get even stakes by wearing more and more enticing lingerie. His passiveness is fueling her aggressiveness.

FWIW I very much dislike the saying "don't get mad, get even". It is a train wreck in the making. If revenge were my MO I would have decimated my ex husband, instead we co parent together better than most one house hold families.
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