The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life. - Page 5 - Talk About Marriage
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post #61 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 04:23 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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Originally Posted by Openminded View Post
Laughing. Yes, AP, I do see the irony in my name. In my defense, I grew up in an ultra-conservative Southern state and by comparison to the rest of my family I'm extremely open-minded in virtually every way (smiling).

I think part of the problem was that my mother wanted a tough, hard-as-nails, emotionless girl exactly like her and that's what she got. No vulnerabilility. Ever. I absorbed my lessons well because I wanted very much to please my mother. Abuse most certainly contributed to who I am but my mother did too. There's something "key" missing in me and I've never cared enough to try to fix it.

I've always hated the idea of sex. It isn't fear. It's extreme dislike. And I guess I would say I think sex is beyond stupid. However, that's not to say that when called on to perform I wasn't capable of delivering porn-star sex so it wasn't that I was shy or embarrassed about it. Far from it. I still found the whole experience ridiculous. Orgasms at the speed of light -- but totally meaningless. Just something my body did that meant nothing. I can't connect at all emotionally (and don't wish to connect physically). I'm locked down. It's an even greater irony that until my divorce I was the ultimate caregiver (obviously more from a sense of duty than a true need).

You wanted to be normal. I have never wanted to be normal in any way. As a very small child I used to ask my mother over and over if she was totally positive I wasn't an alien. She said she was sure I wasn't. I never believed her.
My mother wasn't like yours at all. Mine was a beautiful, gentle source of unconditional love. But I did see her get walked over and treated horribly by my father, for no reason except that she was vulnerable and he was in a position of power over her in every conceivable way. So I came to a place of not wanting to be vulnerable via a different path, of not wanting to end up like her, living in fear of a bully.

I was OK with delivering the porn-star sex performances for a long time when I was younger, in order to please a boyfriend or my spouse. But I still felt that sex was pointless and boring, and I really wished it weren't a necessary part of having a close romantic relationship. But it clearly was, so I did what I had to do. Now that all that is behind me, I'm a bit incredulous that I was able to keep performing sex that I didn't want or enjoy for 30 years. Today, I'm grateful that all that is behind me, and that I can live authentically, the way that is natural to me.

There must be plenty of women that are like us out there. I read somewhere that 1% of the population is asexual, so that must include plenty of men, too. My hope is that someday, this variation of human experience will be talked about openly, so that young people don't have to feel broken and abnormal if they happen to be born that way.
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post #62 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 05:12 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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My mother wasn't like yours at all. Mine was a beautiful, gentle source of unconditional love. But I did see her get walked over and treated horribly by my father, for no reason except that she was vulnerable and he was in a position of power over her in every conceivable way. So I came to a place of not wanting to be vulnerable via a different path, of not wanting to end up like her, living in fear of a bully.

I was OK with delivering the porn-star sex performances for a long time when I was younger, in order to please a boyfriend or my spouse. But I still felt that sex was pointless and boring, and I really wished it weren't a necessary part of having a close romantic relationship. But it clearly was, so I did what I had to do. Now that all that is behind me, I'm a bit incredulous that I was able to keep performing sex that I didn't want or enjoy for 30 years. Today, I'm grateful that all that is behind me, and that I can live authentically, the way that is natural to me.

There must be plenty of women that are like us out there. I read somewhere that 1% of the population is asexual, so that must include plenty of men, too. My hope is that someday, this variation of human experience will be talked about openly, so that young people don't have to feel broken and abnormal if they happen to be born that way.
I totally agree. Pointless and boring describe it well. I was married 45 years and that's a very long time to perform when you don't want or enjoy sex. I did it because it was a necessary part of marriage. Nothing more. What I do greatly regret is not truly figuring all of that out before I got married (my excuse -- such as it is -- is that I married young but I always knew I wasn't normal). That was totally unfair to my husband. I won't have another relationship because of it. I, too, am glad to finally be authentic for the first time ever. That could very well be part of why I'm at peace with my life now that I'm divorced (I hadn't thought of that before now).
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post #63 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 07:10 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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I totally agree. Pointless and boring describe it well. I was married 45 years and that's a very long time to perform when you don't want or enjoy sex. I did it because it was a necessary part of marriage. Nothing more. What I do greatly regret is not truly figuring all of that out before I got married (my excuse -- such as it is -- is that I married young but I always knew I wasn't normal). That was totally unfair to my husband. I won't have another relationship because of it. I, too, am glad to finally be authentic for the first time ever. That could very well be part of why I'm at peace with my life now that I'm divorced (I hadn't thought of that before now).
I had wondered what kind of inner strength you had/have that makes you feel perfectly content with your decision to never marry again. Now I know. Now I have a little better understanding of why that idea of not ever having a partner again never set easily with me.

Thanks Openminded. You've helped me today by sharing your story.

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post #64 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 08:24 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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I had wondered what kind of inner strength you had/have that makes you feel perfectly content with your decision to never marry again. Now I know. Now I have a little better understanding of why that idea of not ever having a partner again never set easily with me.

Thanks Openminded. You've helped me today by sharing your story.
My story is complicated. And full of contradictions. Parts of it make no sense at all -- even to me. Sometimes I can't believe I lived that off-balance life.

I still mourn my ex-husband's death. I miss him greatly. But I don't want to replace him for many reasons. I'm an only child and an introvert. I'm very content alone. And I'm finally at peace with my life. Very late, but finally.

Relationships don't work for everyone, unfortunately, and I'm one of those they just don't work for.
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post #65 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 12:31 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

She has talked to a doctor. The only solution in her case is a hysterectomy (she has multiple fibroids). and she doesn't want such major surger. I completely support her choice. She is well past child bearing age.

Fibroids limit PIV sex, but don't affect other things.

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If she has fibroids and has resigned herself to thinking that they will just "go away" all on their own, your wife is someone that avoids problems instead of actively addressing them. That behavior has likely created a dynamic with regards to any other things making sex problematic.

As her husband, it is ultimately your job now to care for her and to determine what is best for her. Odds are you can help her address problems for the purpose of improving her overall quality of life with complete disregard towards sex. What you will find is that if her health and quality of life improves, so does physical intimacy. The mantra to go by is that, "it is hard to feel good when you don't feel good!"

As for the fibroids, the symptoms can be wide ranging from irritability of her vaginal lining, to strong discomfort and soreness during or after sex. There are often a wide range of treatments available, particularly if you are past the age of being fertile and/or are no longer planning to have more children. Many doctors and women opt to endure the discomfort associated with fibroids in order to maintain fertility for as long as possible. In your marriage this mentality may not be what is in her best interest anymore.

If she will not talk to her doctor, then you should and see what options are available and recommended for your wife with consideration to her age and situation in life. Then talk to your wife and let her know you care about her!

Sincerely,
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post #66 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 12:34 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

There are lots of things to life. Sex is one of them, but not the only one. You hear me complaining about sex, but the rest of our lives is great. We have good friends, common interests, interesting high-paying jobs. Good health, complete trust in each other.

Sex really is the only problem.


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I just don't understand this. I don't understand why someone would want to live this way. I'm just here shaking my head....perplexed.
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post #67 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 12:37 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

Good evening
At this point I think it really is curiosity, and a faint hope of finding a way to improve things. The rest of our lives are great. We've had brief periods - a few months at a time, of great sex. I just can't figure out how to get that back. (or maybe it was only great for me? )

You are right though, she does not value sex



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Originally Posted by Anon Pink View Post
Richard, now that I know it's you, I want you to know I have great sympathy for you and the horrible position your marriage has created.

You seek answers in understanding your wife and I wonder why. What difference does it make to you or to her if you understand why her desire for sex is unalterable outside of action you refuse to take? Does knowing she may have uterine fibroids help you accept the lack of sex? If she has fibroids that make sex uncomfortable, why doesn't she see a doctor? You see it all keeps coming back to one unalterable truth. She sees no value in sex. Why, is anyone's guess. But everyone agrees there isn't a damn thing you can actually do to get her to value sex nearly as much as you do. Understanding her, appreciating her, loving her, complimenting her, spending time with her, hearing her, none of this will cause her to value sex. The only thing that might is to tell her you won't fight this sexless battle for the rest of your life and you are leaving. If she values you, she will seek ways to also value sex. If she doesn't value you enough, she will blame you for being selfish. You're not selfish.
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post #68 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 12:42 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

Good evening Openminded
I appreciate your posting here, especially since TAM can be hostile to people with a low interest in sex. I think there are a lot of people like that, but few who are willing to post.

I can understand not valuing sex. If you take a step back, what is the point? Its not at all obvious why it should be fun, or why people make such a big deal about it.

A tricky question: do you not like sex for yourself, or do you feel (emotionally, not intellectually) that it is wrong for others to enjoy it?

Does my wife's physically enjoying sex, but not wanting it match the way you felt? Could you get physical pleasure but not want it?




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I probably wouldn't volunteer all of this if it hadn't turned out to be Richard's thread but I'm familiar with his posts and sympathize. I speak as a woman who has never seen any value in sex. Total, complete Zero. There's sex abuse in my history. I assume that's why I am the way I am but I don't know for certain because I never sought help -- nor, truthfully, wanted it. I was always comfortable the way I was and dismissed my husband's very rare complaints. My thinking was that he was a typical male who wanted sex 24/7.

Was that wrong all those decades I was married? Absolutely. Do I accept part of the blame -- and feel guilty -- because he became a serial cheater? Yes (although he may or may not have become a serial cheater regardless of my situation). Did I try? Yes. Was it enough? No. Do I wish I had been "normal"? No. I wish I could wish that -- but still no. All that's in hindsight (and well after my divorce). During my marriage I saw none of that. Unfortunately.

Women with very little interest in sex are under-represented on TAM. Men who post about wives who are low drive (or no drive) feel they're among the very few in that situation. But in my experience, in real life, that's not true. I'm far from unique and that's why I'm sharing my story.
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post #69 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 12:44 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

But strangely she does value my happiness - in every other way.

It may be similar to what Openminded posted, my wife doesn't like or see the point of sex. She gets physical pleasure, but it doesn't mean anything, and she just can't understand that its important to other people.



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There is an awful lot of poor behaviour written about on TAM but this is a great example of one of the worst cases. Unless you wife has some sort of mental health issue it is hard to believe that she does not connect the dots between wearing lingerie around the house and sex.

This is seriously passive aggressive and plain old nasty. Look at me, look at me but do not touch me. Sorry RS but the whole thing sounds miserable and humiliating for you, why on Earth do you stay? I understand being able to live without sex even with a healthy sex drive but this is not about living with a lack of sex, this is about mental abuse by a spouse that really has very little regard for your happiness.
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post #70 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 12:47 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

From the posts here, maybe someone should start a thread in the ladies lounge for support for women who do not want sex. I think there may be quite a few who aren't comfortable discussing it.
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post #71 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 07:03 AM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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Originally Posted by 2020hindsight View Post

There must be plenty of women that are like us out there. I read somewhere that 1% of the population is asexual, so that must include plenty of men, too. My hope is that someday, this variation of human experience will be talked about openly, so that young people don't have to feel broken and abnormal if they happen to be born that way.
I think asexuality is such a complicated subject that it's difficult to really talk about in the same way one discusses the other branches of human sexuality. It's in no small part due to the fact that nobody really talks about it... A vicious circle, if you will.

My wife identifies herself as asexual, but it's a very grey area (like much of asexuality, I'm learning). She does so because she feels no sexual attraction to anybody, and never has. Yet she does have a sex drive, albeit a small one. Basically, she is asexual with a responsive sex drive towards men.

And this is part of the reason that the entire subject isn't discussed - because the asexual spectrum is so vast to begin with, and it affects a relatively small part of the population as a whole. Far less than the other sexual identities. You start out with ~1% of the population, then you further break those people down into the myriad other identities within this already small faction. You can identify as asexual, and be attracted to men, women, or both. You can enjoy sex, you can masturbate, or you could be completely repulsed by sexual activity. You could enjoy the physical aspect of sex or just the intimate, emotional side - or both.

As far as I understand, the only thing that people who identify as asexual have in common is lack of sexual attraction to people. It's not about spontaneous desire or the inability to get turned on, per se, but just the lack of attraction to a person in a sexual manner. The way the other ~99% of the population can look at a man or woman and be attracted to them (which often includes wanting to be sexual with them).

My wife, as I understand it, has never felt a physical or sexual attraction to somebody in her life. Funny story, she went on a date with a guy, shortly before we connected. It was a guy we both knew from our school days. In a nutshell, he is not an attractive man. He IS a very nice guy, but he's definitely not blessed in the physical/facial side of things. For that matter, my wife's ex is not an attractive guy, either. My wife is beautiful, honestly, and not just to me.

I often wondered what she had seen in these guys, but it started to make sense once the topic of asexuality came up. That's not to denigrate these two particular men and what other things they bring to the table, but from the standpoint of physical attraction, it didn't make sense to me.
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post #72 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 08:10 AM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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She has talked to a doctor. The only solution in her case is a hysterectomy (she has multiple fibroids). and she doesn't want such major surger. I completely support her choice. She is well past child bearing age.

Fibroids limit PIV sex, but don't affect other things.
I happen to have a family member in a similar situation. She also thinks that surgery is not the best choice for her and she has chosen to live with her fibroids, but takes certain medications to help shrink them and mitigate the side effects. Every time she calls the house I cringe answering the phone. I am not sure if it is just her personality or the side effects of her condition, but she is an extremely difficult person to talk to because she is very judgmental and easily irritated. She just put me through an inquisition regarding my plans for Thanksgiving, insisting I had to do everything at my house. Turns out her plans are to take a vacation, so she is unable to attend, but she wanted to take credit for insuring our father would have a nice Thanksgiving that was planned at my house.

...anyway I got off on a tangent there... If your wife's fibroids are not too large in size they can be treated with Endometrial Ablation which is a five-minute procedure for women that are no longer of child bearing age. I would read up on this and if it is really that effective for fibroids. If her fibroids are too large or outside her uterus, then indeed a hysterectomy is going to be the advised course of action.

Keep in mind that large fibroids can cause issues with digestion, in that they can interfere with her bowels natural indications of when it is time to evacuate. They can also cause back pain by placing pressure or causing swelling near areas where nerves are sensitive. What I am getting at is that fibroids and the associated symptoms are things that impact the quality of life beyond her ability to just enjoy sex again. So if she does experience any of those things, talk to her doctor, and her doctor will be like, "oh yes, it can cause all of those problems as well!"

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post #73 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 08:31 AM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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Good evening Openminded
I appreciate your posting here, especially since TAM can be hostile to people with a low interest in sex. I think there are a lot of people like that, but few who are willing to post.

I can understand not valuing sex. If you take a step back, what is the point? Its not at all obvious why it should be fun, or why people make such a big deal about it.

A tricky question: do you not like sex for yourself, or do you feel (emotionally, not intellectually) that it is wrong for others to enjoy it?

Does my wife's physically enjoying sex, but not wanting it match the way you felt? Could you get physical pleasure but not want it?
Smiling. It's complicated.

Certainly, it's possible to physically enjoy the literal moment (i.e., orgasm) and not want sex -- or even think about it once it's over. It's not important. It's definitely not a need. It happens on occasion and that's about it. And I absolutely would never feel that what others enjoy is wrong (well, as long as it's legal) but I admit I don't understand it -- no matter how much I try to. It just doesn't make sense to me. A totally foreign concept.

What I really wish is that people like me understood how they truly feel about sex before marriage and then we could find someone like ourselves who preferred being sexless (I know they're out there). But almost always we end up marrying some HD person and sex becomes a battleground. Maybe, like me, they think they can adjust but sooner or later realize they were wrong. And there's the guilt that can go with the resentment at having to perform and not wanting to. Dreading it more times than not. Shaking my head.

I'm familiar with your story and I'm sorry it happened to you and all the others on TAM with similar stories. In a better world there would be no sexual mismatches. I rarely say life's unfair (because what would be the point -- we know that) but, yes, it certainly is.
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post #74 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 08:39 AM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
From the posts here, maybe someone should start a thread in the ladies lounge for support for women who do not want sex. I think there may be quite a few who aren't comfortable discussing it.
It can be difficult to admit that you're not the norm. I've been on TAM for years and have generally avoided the subject. The two sides don't understand each other (much like my marriage was) and things can become hostile when this subject is brought up. Plenty of posters enjoy sparring. I'm not one who does. But I felt I should at least try to explain what life is like for those of us who aren't interested in sex.
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post #75 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 09:27 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

In my wife's case, the quick summary is that she has discussed the options in detail with her doctor and decided that living with them is the best option. I wasn't aware of personality issues from fibroids, the other issues I know about. I haven't noticed personality changes since these became an issue - though its an interesg=ting possibility.




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Originally Posted by badsanta View Post
I happen to have a family member in a similar situation. She also thinks that surgery is not the best choice for her and she has chosen to live with her fibroids, but takes certain medications to help shrink them and mitigate the side effects. Every time she calls the house I cringe answering the phone. I am not sure if it is just her personality or the side effects of her condition, but she is an extremely difficult person to talk to because she is very judgmental and easily irritated. She just put me through an inquisition regarding my plans for Thanksgiving, insisting I had to do everything at my house. Turns out her plans are to take a vacation, so she is unable to attend, but she wanted to take credit for insuring our father would have a nice Thanksgiving that was planned at my house.

...anyway I got off on a tangent there... If your wife's fibroids are not too large in size they can be treated with Endometrial Ablation which is a five-minute procedure for women that are no longer of child bearing age. I would read up on this and if it is really that effective for fibroids. If her fibroids are too large or outside her uterus, then indeed a hysterectomy is going to be the advised course of action.

Keep in mind that large fibroids can cause issues with digestion, in that they can interfere with her bowels natural indications of when it is time to evacuate. They can also cause back pain by placing pressure or causing swelling near areas where nerves are sensitive. What I am getting at is that fibroids and the associated symptoms are things that impact the quality of life beyond her ability to just enjoy sex again. So if she does experience any of those things, talk to her doctor, and her doctor will be like, "oh yes, it can cause all of those problems as well!"

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