The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life. - Page 7 - Talk About Marriage
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post #91 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 01:30 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
In my wife's case, the quick summary is that she has discussed the options in detail with her doctor and decided that living with them is the best option. I wasn't aware of personality issues from fibroids, the other issues I know about. I haven't noticed personality changes since these became an issue - though its an interesting possibility.
Not to get too complicated, but imagine yourself with a very mild toothache that gets worse over time. At first you still enjoy eating all you favorite foods, and can indulge without too much discomfort. Then as your toothache gets worse, you have to start chewing tough foods on just one side of your mouth, avoiding acidic foods, and perhaps become rather sensitive to hot or cold foods. You adjust your diet to mitigate your toothache, and the discomfort becomes manageable. Time goes by, and now you mostly enjoy soft smoothies sipped through a straw, and convince yourself that all those other foods you used to enjoy were not healthy for you anyway, as you have started loosing a little weight. Occasionally you enjoy a cheeseburger about once a month because you really miss it, but the pain from your toothache makes it challenging to enjoy.

Meanwhile as all this has gradually taken place over a great deal of time, it is hard to notice how your personality has changed. Especially with regards to the topic of everyone else enjoying cheeseburgers and your sentiment towards them when you feel like this:



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post #92 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 01:47 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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Look... first you're framing this wrong. You don't want "sex", you don't want "blow jobs", you don't want "anal". You want a "fulfilling, intimate sexual relationship" with your wife. NEVER again frame it as "sex" because what you will get back is "all you want is sex!"

Second, explain that a "fulfilling, intimate sexual relationship" is important to the relationship... not to YOU.
If you want a "fulfilling, intimate SEXUAL relationship", a person who isn't interested in sex thinks that all you want is sex. Their objection isn't to the specifics, it's to the principle of having a sexual relationship on anything other than their own terms.

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Third, explain that a monogamous relationship with a spouse goes hand-in-hand with "forsaking all others". You can't ask for one of you don't provide the other.
You can be having a monogamous relationship in which you forsake all others. Monogamy and forsaking all others explicitly exclude having sex with anyone else. Your semi-celibate relationship absolutely meets the definition of monogamous. Basically when you agree to the marriage vows, YOU explicitly agree to not have sex with anyone else. You can argue it's implicit, but there is nothing there where your partner agrees to give you the level and type of sex you want. Not at all.

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post #93 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 01:59 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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If you want a "fulfilling, intimate SEXUAL relationship", a person who isn't interested in sex thinks that all you want is sex. Their objection isn't to the specifics, it's to the principle of having a sexual relationship on anything other than their own terms.



You can be having a monogamous relationship in which you forsake all others. Monogamy and forsaking all others explicitly exclude having sex with anyone else. Your semi-celibate relationship absolutely meets the definition of monogamous. Basically when you agree to the marriage vows, YOU explicitly agree to not have sex with anyone else. You can argue it's implicit, but there is nothing there where your partner agrees to give you the level and type of sex you want. Not at all.
There are plenty of things expected in a marriage that are not explicit. No where does it say at least one spouse needs to bring in enough money to keep a roof over your head or food on the table. No where in the marriage contract does it say that a man can't beat his wife. There are plenty of implied agreements in marriage and sex between spouses is one of them.
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post #94 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 02:21 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

The post below is good, it is simply incomplete.

1. First of all - the idea that your very smart wife doesn't pick up hints is likely incorrect. She knows that because you are a gentleman, you have to be highly agitated to be totally blunt.
2. You can't make someone like sex anymore than you can make someone be ambitious.



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I understand, but not sure how to apply. The root issues is that she doesn't want sex, or at least enjoys sex only rarely and a very limited set of activities. I can get into a situation where she does sexual things she doesn't like in return for me being nice to her in various ways, but that feels very transactional.

I also enjoy making her happy. Avoiding doing nice things for her until she "agrees" to have sex, just feels sort of mean.

She won't pickup hints. There have been times I've been less affectionate and she eventually asks why. When you keep in mind that she thinks our sex life is normal and good, I'm stuck with:

"I've stopped getting you flowers and giving you back rubs because you won't give me blowjobs". I just don't see any way that doesn't come across really badly.

(for "blowjobs", substitute any other sexual activity that she doesn't want to do).

She doesn't like doing these things, and nothing I can do will make her enjoy it. I don't think there is a way to "fix" this. The LD / ND people who have been generous enough to post here can probably comment on how they would feel.


Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all the advice and suggestions. I just think its really difficult for people with normal sexual desire to understand how it feels to have no desire.
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post #95 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 02:24 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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It can be difficult to admit that you're not the norm. I've been on TAM for years and have generally avoided the subject. The two sides don't understand each other (much like my marriage was) and things can become hostile when this subject is brought up. Plenty of posters enjoy sparring. I'm not one who does. But I felt I should at least try to explain what life is like for those of us who aren't interested in sex.
I'm not sure the two side don't understand each other. I am a HD woman but completely understand that everyone is different and there is no judgement for those that are different. It is not obligatory to be a sexual person. To me it really is no big deal.
The part of the OP that is not right is the teasing and wearing lingerie around the house knowing her husband does want sex. That comes across as nasty and passive aggressive.

There are two different issues at play here. If people are LD or ND all power to them but a decent person would not throw PA behaviour into the mix.
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post #96 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 02:28 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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There are plenty of things expected in a marriage that are not explicit. No where does it say at least one spouse needs to bring in enough money to keep a roof over your head or food on the table. No where in the marriage contract does it say that a man can't beat his wife. There are plenty of implied agreements in marriage and sex between spouses is one of them.
That's covered under the Criminal Justice Act. Saying that it isn't explicitly stated in the marriage vows that you can't beat your wife won't constitute a defence against a charge of assault occasioning actual bodily harm and a year in the clink. Similarly, it might be IMPLIED that there is sex between spouses, but there is nothing whatsoever anywhere that says what constitutes the "right amount", and there is a slew of things written down quite clearly that state that trying to get anyone to do anything sexual that they aren't 100% comfortable with, whether in terms of the specifics of the act, location, frequency or whatever, is morally indefensible, and quite possibly illegal. There have been cases around this as being "controlling or coercive behaviour in intimate or familial relationships", under the Serious Crime Act.

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post #97 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 02:35 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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I'm not sure the two side don't understand each other. I am a HD woman but completely understand that everyone is different and there is no judgement for those that are different. It is not obligatory to be a sexual person. To me it really is no big deal.
The part of the OP that is not right is the teasing and wearing lingerie around the house knowing her husband does want sex. That comes across as nasty and passive aggressive.

There are two different issues at play here. If people are LD or ND all power to them but a decent person would not throw PA behaviour into the mix.
I totally agree.

PA behavior is inappropriate.
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post #98 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 03:43 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
I understand, but not sure how to apply. The root issues is that she doesn't want sex, or at least enjoys sex only rarely and a very limited set of activities. I can get into a situation where she does sexual things she doesn't like in return for me being nice to her in various ways, but that feels very transactional.

I also enjoy making her happy. Avoiding doing nice things for her until she "agrees" to have sex, just feels sort of mean.

She won't pickup hints. There have been times I've been less affectionate and she eventually asks why. When you keep in mind that she thinks our sex life is normal and good, I'm stuck with:

"I've stopped getting you flowers and giving you back rubs because you won't give me blowjobs". I just don't see any way that doesn't come across really badly.

(for "blowjobs", substitute any other sexual activity that she doesn't want to do).

She doesn't like doing these things, and nothing I can do will make her enjoy it. I don't think there is a way to "fix" this. The LD / ND people who have been generous enough to post here can probably comment on how they would feel.


Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all the advice and suggestions. I just think its really difficult for people with normal sexual desire to understand how it feels to have no desire.
I'm saying that you fulfill her emotional needs. She enjoys being looked at, cuddled with, etc. She likes control. I would tip the canoe and not spend a lot of time at home. I don't know how else to make someone who likes having you around, but won't follow through when you explain that your needs and hers are far different (besides divorce). She takes takes takes from you, and when it's time to reciprocate, she tells you that you are selfish to want sex all the time.

She seems to have selective desire, at times she has really liked sex, and she likes cuddling and making out, and dressing in sexy things/ being looked at. That's the part that has always thrown me.

Forget enough to get over it, remember enough so it doesn't happen again.
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post #99 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 03:59 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

Richard! Good evening.

Your original question - why does your wife wear lingerie and appear to enjoy sex but then avoids it?

As others have already said she needs to be needed and wants to be wanted. You seem to have accepted that she will never be someone who enjoys frequent and exploratory sex. She appears quite rigid in what she will do and how often she will do it.

Her self esteem is likely to be secure in her attractiveness. As I approach my mid 40's my attractiveness suddenly became crucial. I recognized I had an unreasonable need to be seen and verbally appreciated as attractive and sexy, when in reality my H would find me attractive wearing a bin bag. I have worked really hard in the past few years to put my energies into other - nonsexual things - that make me feel great and that my husband appreciates and admires in me. For instance my academic achievements feature high in my self worth.

As you seem to be resigned to your wife's lack of desire for sex, and the lingerie around the house seems wholly inappropriate considering; maybe you could work on nonsexual things to boost her self value and self esteem. I am sure she has lots of talents and attributes that can make her feel valued by you. Maybe ignore the lingerie and praise her for other areas in her life that are admirable.

(I wish I had a magic wand to make you have a rocking sex life but the above is the best I can think of).

Last edited by peacem; 11-14-2016 at 04:14 PM.
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post #100 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 04:21 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

I agree but she would not. For her, love / romance and sex are completely unrelated things. I'm sure she thinks that she is doing her part by giving me a HJ every week (things used to be much rarer, but I think she finally decided that she *should* do this).

She feels she is already doing a lot, and doesn't appreciate being asked for more. She said this at one point that it seemed that nothing she did was enough. The problem is that her idea and my idea of a reasonable sex life are just so very far apart.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Taylor View Post
Look... first you're framing this wrong. You don't want "sex", you don't want "blow jobs", you don't want "anal". You want a "fulfilling, intimate sexual relationship" with your wife. NEVER again frame it as "sex" because what you will get back is "all you want is sex!"
snip
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post #101 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 04:40 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

Teasing about sex is like teasing someone about their weight. Very toxic.


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Originally Posted by MrsHolland View Post
I'm not sure the two side don't understand each other. I am a HD woman but completely understand that everyone is different and there is no judgement for those that are different. It is not obligatory to be a sexual person. To me it really is no big deal.
The part of the OP that is not right is the teasing and wearing lingerie around the house knowing her husband does want sex. That comes across as nasty and passive aggressive.

There are two different issues at play here. If people are LD or ND all power to them but a decent person would not throw PA behaviour into the mix.
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post #102 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 04:57 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

Why not buy her some baggy flannel pajamas, or a terrycloth bathrobe; and tell her to wear them around the house, because you're tired of looking at her in her sexy lingerie.

You have to tell her that the lingerie "modeling" is a tease to you and it makes you UNhappy when there is no sex later on.

^^^If you tell her that----point blank, explicitly---- and she continues to parade around in her frillies and silkies; then she is a b*tch. Sorry, but that's what it would mean.


uhtred, you've got a lot to offer a receptive woman. Since your wife is well off financially. Since there are no children/grandchildren in the picture. Since life is short; but you've probably got a couple of good decades left . . .

I understand that you can love her, for a lot of reasons. But do you really think that you *like her*?


Just want to correct something I read upthread: a woman is in menopause after a year without having a period; not 6 months.

Menopause and Perimenopause-Topic Overview

Quote:
Menopause is the point in a woman's life when she has not had her period for 1 year. It marks the end of the childbearing years. It's sometimes called "the change of life."
Missed Periods: When Do They Mean Menopause? - Menopause


Quote:
I can tell you that technically, menopause begins after you have missed periods for 12 months,
Irregular Periods and Perimenopause | HealthyWomen

Quote:
Menopause is timed as the date of the final period, confirmed after periods have been missed for 12 months.
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post #103 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 06:43 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

Yes, 12 months. Seems like a slight difference but at least in some cases it is a difference. My wife's problems became much worse after the 12 month gap had finally occurred. The previous few years with only a small handful of periods was a mere warmup...
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post #104 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 06:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

To clarify, if I asked my wife to stop wearing lingerie around the house she would. I think I've mistakenly given the impression that it bothers me, when really it mystifies me.

Once I understood that her wearing lingerie didn't imply sex, it stopped being teasing. So not it is really just curiosity: Why go out of her way to buy and wear sexy lingerie that probably isn't the most comfortable thing in the world, when she doesn't want to entice me.

I've even make the distinction clear to hear between lingerie that looks very nice in a non-sexual way. (well mostly non-sexual, I still find her very attractive in a Japanese silk bathrobe), and lingerie that is clearly designed to entice. So if she wants non-sexual appreciation of her appearance, she can get it. Yet she still wears the very sexy stuff - why? Why look for attention that she is planning to turn down?



Again, its not really a problem anymore - I know the sexy clothes don't imply a desire for sex.
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post #105 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 06:59 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
To clarify, if I asked my wife to stop wearing lingerie around the house she would. I think I've mistakenly given the impression that it bothers me, when really it mystifies me.

Once I understood that her wearing lingerie didn't imply sex, it stopped being teasing. So not it is really just curiosity: Why go out of her way to buy and wear sexy lingerie that probably isn't the most comfortable thing in the world, when she doesn't want to entice me.

I've even make the distinction clear to hear between lingerie that looks very nice in a non-sexual way. (well mostly non-sexual, I still find her very attractive in a Japanese silk bathrobe), and lingerie that is clearly designed to entice. So if she wants non-sexual appreciation of her appearance, she can get it. Yet she still wears the very sexy stuff - why? Why look for attention that she is planning to turn down?



Again, its not really a problem anymore - I know the sexy clothes don't imply a desire for sex.
Because she gets a kick rejecting you? More control?

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