The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life. - Page 8 - Talk About Marriage
Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

User Tag List

 511Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
post #106 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 09:39 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,473
Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
To clarify, if I asked my wife to stop wearing lingerie around the house she would. I think I've mistakenly given the impression that it bothers me, when really it mystifies me.

If you ask her to stop wearing it, and she complies; then it gets rid of the unwanted sexual stimulus for YOU. You know there isn't going to be sex; so stop being subjected to a woman wearing alluring, pretty robes and nighties, or whatever the case may be. This should help to get sex off of your mind. And send a message to your wife that you are sick of this situation..


Quote:
Once I understood that her wearing lingerie didn't imply sex, it stopped being teasing. So not it is really just curiosity: Why go out of her way to buy and wear sexy lingerie that probably isn't the most comfortable thing in the world, when she doesn't want to entice me.

I'm not sure I believe that you are not being teased. Really? A woman whom you are attracted to is walking around in lingerie; and you constantly want more sex. It sounds like you are trying to convince yourself that she isn't a tease. And she DOES want to "entice" you, and then not follow through on it.



Quote:
I've even make the distinction clear to hear between lingerie that looks very nice in a non-sexual way. (well mostly non-sexual, I still find her very attractive in a Japanese silk bathrobe), and lingerie that is clearly designed to entice. So if she wants non-sexual appreciation of her appearance, she can get it. Yet she still wears the very sexy stuff - why? Why look for attention that she is planning to turn down?

You're answering your own questions. She could wear less overtly sexual items like Japanese silk bathrobes; but she still wears the very sexy stuff. 1+1=2, uhtred.



Quote:
Again, its not really a problem anymore - I know the sexy clothes don't imply a desire for sex.

It is a problem because you are here at TAM looking for answers. And if you know that the sexy clothes don't imply a desire for sex; then ask her to stop wearing them. It might make your life with her just a little bit more bearable.
notmyrealname4 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #107 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 07:27 AM
Member
 
alexm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,723
Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
This sounds so familiar and so very sad.

Its not your fault you didn't have the desire he wanted / needed. There is no way you could have understood how he felt, and you did the best you could do. You could physically do what he wanted, but you could not have the desire that he really needed.

Its not his fault that he couldn't enjoy love without sex. He could not have understood how you felt. He cheated to try to get the thing that was missing from his life - something meaningless to you, and inseparable from love to him.

Having your friends think you have a wonderful life makes it worse. We are also the perfect couple. So friendly and affectionate (in a non-sexual way) in public. We go on romantic trips, enjoy our time together. No one could imagine that on our 25th anniversary, staying in an ancient palace on the grand canal in Venice, my wife spend the evening reading, and I spent it playing computer games.

I wonder how many couples are like this.
I don't think it's as familiar as one would believe. The drifting apart and having different priorities - yes, absolutely. That's all too common. When sex isn't important to one person, it's easy to completely forget about it entirely. However, they can be reminded that it's important, provided their interest in maintaining the relationship supercedes the interest in doing things they don't understand.

What I see in OpenMinded's story isn't simply a lack of desire, but more an inability to compute sexuality, thus leading to an unwillingness to play along any more. And that's fine. The inability to compute sexuality (as well as lack of sexual attraction) is what defines asexuality. Oddly enough, lack of desire does not. There are many asexuals who HAVE desire (mainly for physical stimulation).

Many people who identify as asexual don't understand sex in general, but they 'understand' its importance and role in a relationship. But then there are a small percentage who either don't, or decide 'enough is enough, I can't do this any more', and take being single over the grind of being married and having to be somebody they're not - even if it's in a relatively small way. And that's okay.

But, it's difficult for us non-asexuals to fully understand the challenges associated with engaging in sexual acts, say, once a week, for the sake of an otherwise good and healthy relationship or marriage. And it's exceedingly difficult for us to understand why we might not be worth it. In my experience with an asexual wife, I understand that there's no physical attraction to me, or anybody else. That was not easy to comprehend at first (we all want to be physically desirable to our partners). But once I wrapped my head around that, things were okay. My wife does get something out of sex, so at the moment, it's worth it to her. I don't believe she forces herself to do anything she doesn't want to do. She does get physical pleasure from it, which she enjoys (but does not require the way most of us do). She does get closeness and intimacy (which she DOES require). And she gets a good relationship from it (which she also desires).

A couple of years ago, I had a post in which I compared sexual needs to (I think it was) bowling. Weird analogy, I know, but it's what popped in my head at the time. Now I can take or leave bowling, and could never bowl again in my life and I wouldn't think twice about it. But when I do it, I have fun.

That said, if I married someone who likes to bowl once or twice a week, I'm not sure how long I could keep that going, or how fun it would be after a year or two of that. That would be up to me. Whether the trade off would be worth it, I suppose. Maybe eventually I'd grow to hate it. Maybe it'd just become part of my life and I wouldn't think twice about it. Tuesday and Saturday becomes bowling night. Or I could go all-in and we'd join a league, my wife would be happy and it's a small sacrifice I'd make for her sake.

IMO, there's no harm in doing something that makes your partner happy, provided it doesn't make you UNhappy. Would I like to bowl twice a week? No, not particularly. But if it was important to my wife, I almost certainly would, and would make the absolute best of it. After all, it's time spent together.

On the flip side, I'd expect her to understand that bowling is not a high priority to me, and that she shouldn't expect me to view it the same way she does. I wouldn't want to be berated for throwing a gutter ball once in a while.
alexm is offline  
post #108 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 09:05 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,404
Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

Remember, I've lived with a woman with almost no interest in sex for decades, so I have a great deal of practice in not being attracted to her. I really don't mind the sexy lingerie, it just seems strange that she would wear it.

My best read on her is that "sex" is something different from everything else. She wants attention, romance, non-sexual intimacy. She likes being appreciated (who doesn't), and actually loves and is attracted to me - in a non sexual way.

At one point long ago I tried to explain to her why this sort of behavior was frustrating, and it honestly seemed that she didn't understand. I got "But I though you liked to see me dressed like this...". Its why I've described her as wanting a PG13 romance. She wants all the things that are associated with romance, but there is always a scene-cut before any actual sex happens. She thinks its completely normal to be affectionate, hug, kiss, etc - then curl up in bed together naked and go to sleep.

Its just *sex* itself that is a problem. I wonder if there was CSA that caused some sort of hangup about sex.



Quote:
Originally Posted by notmyrealname4 View Post
If you ask her to stop wearing it, and she complies; then it gets rid of the unwanted sexual stimulus for YOU. You know there isn't going to be sex; so stop being subjected to a woman wearing alluring, pretty robes and nighties, or whatever the case may be. This should help to get sex off of your mind. And send a message to your wife that you are sick of this situation..





I'm not sure I believe that you are not being teased. Really? A woman whom you are attracted to is walking around in lingerie; and you constantly want more sex. It sounds like you are trying to convince yourself that she isn't a tease. And she DOES want to "entice" you, and then not follow through on it.






You're answering your own questions. She could wear less overtly sexual items like Japanese silk bathrobes; but she still wears the very sexy stuff. 1+1=2, uhtred.






It is a problem because you are here at TAM looking for answers. And if you know that the sexy clothes don't imply a desire for sex; then ask her to stop wearing them. It might make your life with her just a little bit more bearable.
uhtred is offline  
post #109 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 05:29 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Southeast
Posts: 4,295
Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexm View Post
I don't think it's as familiar as one would believe. The drifting apart and having different priorities - yes, absolutely. That's all too common. When sex isn't important to one person, it's easy to completely forget about it entirely. However, they can be reminded that it's important, provided their interest in maintaining the relationship supercedes the interest in doing things they don't understand.

What I see in OpenMinded's story isn't simply a lack of desire, but more an inability to compute sexuality, thus leading to an unwillingness to play along any more. And that's fine. The inability to compute sexuality (as well as lack of sexual attraction) is what defines asexuality. Oddly enough, lack of desire does not. There are many asexuals who HAVE desire (mainly for physical stimulation).

Many people who identify as asexual don't understand sex in general, but they 'understand' its importance and role in a relationship. But then there are a small percentage who either don't, or decide 'enough is enough, I can't do this any more', and take being single over the grind of being married and having to be somebody they're not - even if it's in a relatively small way. And that's okay.

But, it's difficult for us non-asexuals to fully understand the challenges associated with engaging in sexual acts, say, once a week, for the sake of an otherwise good and healthy relationship or marriage. And it's exceedingly difficult for us to understand why we might not be worth it. In my experience with an asexual wife, I understand that there's no physical attraction to me, or anybody else. That was not easy to comprehend at first (we all want to be physically desirable to our partners). But once I wrapped my head around that, things were okay. My wife does get something out of sex, so at the moment, it's worth it to her. I don't believe she forces herself to do anything she doesn't want to do. She does get physical pleasure from it, which she enjoys (but does not require the way most of us do). She does get closeness and intimacy (which she DOES require). And she gets a good relationship from it (which she also desires).

A couple of years ago, I had a post in which I compared sexual needs to (I think it was) bowling. Weird analogy, I know, but it's what popped in my head at the time. Now I can take or leave bowling, and could never bowl again in my life and I wouldn't think twice about it. But when I do it, I have fun.

That said, if I married someone who likes to bowl once or twice a week, I'm not sure how long I could keep that going, or how fun it would be after a year or two of that. That would be up to me. Whether the trade off would be worth it, I suppose. Maybe eventually I'd grow to hate it. Maybe it'd just become part of my life and I wouldn't think twice about it. Tuesday and Saturday becomes bowling night. Or I could go all-in and we'd join a league, my wife would be happy and it's a small sacrifice I'd make for her sake.

IMO, there's no harm in doing something that makes your partner happy, provided it doesn't make you UNhappy. Would I like to bowl twice a week? No, not particularly. But if it was important to my wife, I almost certainly would, and would make the absolute best of it. After all, it's time spent together.

On the flip side, I'd expect her to understand that bowling is not a high priority to me, and that she shouldn't expect me to view it the same way she does. I wouldn't want to be berated for throwing a gutter ball once in a while.
It's difficult to explain because I didn't ever experience what's "normal" so I don't know what that's like in order to compare it to how I am. Being able to orgasm extremely quickly was never important to me -- just something my body was capable of -- but it was important to my ex-husband so I always made sure I did but I could have easily passed that up if it had been up to me. It was not something I needed although for a moment I enjoyed it (but never wanted to repeat it).

Since sex was important to him, and a duty of marriage, I cooperated (for the most part) but I never initiated. That was totally up to him. As he aged, and his health declined, sex became less frequent and that bothered him. I was relieved although I didn't tell him that (he probably knew anyway). I hope his second marriage was better. I certainly messed up his first one.

Last edited by Openminded; 11-15-2016 at 05:49 PM.
Openminded is offline  
post #110 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 05:52 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,404
Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

With hindsight, what would you recommend for other couples in this situation? Often you can look back and think about what you or he should have done differently. Its not fair, since hindsight is always good, but your thoughts might be useful to others who haven't gotten to the hindsight part yet.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Openminded View Post
It's difficult to explain because I didn't ever experience what's "normal" so I don't know what that's like in order to compare it to how I am. Being able to orgasm extremely quickly was never important to me -- just something my body was capable of -- but it was important to my ex-husband so I always made sure I did but I could have easily passed that up if it had been up to me. It was not something I needed although for a moment I enjoyed it (but never wanted to repeat it).

Since sex was important to him, and a duty of marriage, I cooperated (for the most part) but I never initiated. That was totally up to him. As he aged, and his health declined, sex became less frequent and that bothered him. I was relieved although I didn't tell him that (he probably knew anyway). I hope his second marriage was better. I certainly messed up his first one.
uhtred is offline  
post #111 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 06:09 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Southeast
Posts: 4,295
Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
With hindsight, what would you recommend for other couples in this situation? Often you can look back and think about what you or he should have done differently. Its not fair, since hindsight is always good, but your thoughts might be useful to others who haven't gotten to the hindsight part yet.
Communication. From the beginning. The longer the problem exists, the less likely a good resolution is. Better to know exactly where you stand even if tough truths have to be said. I didn't do that.

We weren't good at communicating. Not very often, he would bring frequency up and I would agree to try harder. It never lasted. Twice a week was the most I ever managed and that was difficult to sustain although I tried. The problem was the gap between what he considered good (daily) and what I considered good (never). I think he always hoped that one day a switch would be thrown and I would be like him. I knew that would never happen. I sometimes tried to explain my limitations but I didn't want to hurt his feelings so I left many things unsaid. That was wrong.
Openminded is offline  
post #112 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 06:51 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,404
Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

Again sounds very familiar.
As I'm sure you experienced, communication about sex is really difficult in this situation. There is so little common ground for discussion, your thoughts are just so different. Each sort of expecting that the other will change because the other's behavior makes so little sense.

Its really difficult to say "I don't like sex and never will". or "Even though I love you, I can't have a happy life without sex".

To one person there is the never-ending question of "why does he/she want me to do this think I dislike? There are so many other things we enjoy together. They wouldn't pressure me if they really loved me."

To the other "why can't he/she enjoy something that means so much to me, or at least enjoy making me happy. They would if they really loved me".


So, a question: did you consider an open marriage so he could have sex with someone else? If not, why not? If you were happy with no sex at all, that eliminates the classic worries of disease etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Openminded View Post
Communication. From the beginning. The longer the problem exists, the less likely a good resolution is. Better to know exactly where you stand even if tough truths have to be said. I didn't do that.

We weren't good at communicating. Not very often, he would bring frequency up and I would agree to try harder. It never lasted. Twice a week was the most I ever managed and that was difficult to sustain although I tried. The problem was the gap between what he considered good (daily) and what I considered good (never). I think he always hoped that one day a switch would be thrown and I would be like him. I knew that would never happen. I sometimes tried to explain my limitations but I didn't want to hurt his feelings so I left many things unsaid. That was wrong.
uhtred is offline  
post #113 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 06:56 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 37
Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Openminded View Post
As far as being willing -- I was always willing to do whatever it was he wanted but I never wanted to. My emotions were not in it. Not once during those decades did I initiate. That's another foreign concept I can't grasp.
What you describe is the same as the sex life in my marriage. I provided sex on demand and drew no barriers in what sexual acts i would do. But I honestly would rather not have been doing any of it. It was all for him. With the best will in the world, that gets a bit dreary after a quarter century or so. I couldn't help but wonder why he wanted to do any of it, especially as we moved toward middle age.

I guess one of my illusions was that he'd probably get less interested in sex as he grew older.
2020hindsight is offline  
post #114 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 07:06 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,404
Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

The tragic hope of the HD that the LD will come to enjoy it, and of the LD that the HD will get tired of it. I wonder either of those actually happens.

Sadly the attempts by both at compromise make this worse:

The LD tries to please the HD, and the HD interprets that as the LD starting to enjoy sex.

The HD tries to suppress their desire and not pressure the LD. The LD interprets that as the HD finally getting tired of sex.



I guess I'd ask the same question: did you consider an open marriage as a way you could both get at least something like what you wanted?



Quote:
Originally Posted by 2020hindsight View Post
What you describe is the same as the sex life in my marriage. I provided sex on demand and drew no barriers in what sexual acts i would do. But I honestly would rather not have been doing any of it. It was all for him. With the best will in the world, that gets a bit dreary after a quarter century or so. I couldn't help but wonder why he wanted to do any of it, especially as we moved toward middle age.

I guess one of my illusions was that he'd probably get less interested in sex as he grew older.
uhtred is offline  
post #115 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 07:23 PM
Member
 
Faithful Wife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 10,848
Richard, I think the answer is that you have to accept what little sex you have, be happy with it, and stop hoping to change her. I think you would be so much happier.

If she were physically incapable of having sex, you know you wouldn't like it but you'd accept it and deal.

To me, this is basically the same.

I'm saying this because you've made it clear you will never divorce her. So this is the only path to you having more happiness....to completely accept your situation.
Faithful Wife is offline  
post #116 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 07:33 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 37
Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexm View Post
I don't think it's as familiar as one would believe. The drifting apart and having different priorities - yes, absolutely. That's all too common. When sex isn't important to one person, it's easy to completely forget about it entirely. However, they can be reminded that it's important, provided their interest in maintaining the relationship supercedes the interest in doing things they don't understand.

What I see in OpenMinded's story isn't simply a lack of desire, but more an inability to compute sexuality, thus leading to an unwillingness to play along any more. And that's fine. The inability to compute sexuality (as well as lack of sexual attraction) is what defines asexuality. Oddly enough, lack of desire does not. There are many asexuals who HAVE desire (mainly for physical stimulation).

Many people who identify as asexual don't understand sex in general, but they 'understand' its importance and role in a relationship. But then there are a small percentage who either don't, or decide 'enough is enough, I can't do this any more', and take being single over the grind of being married and having to be somebody they're not - even if it's in a relatively small way. And that's okay.

But, it's difficult for us non-asexuals to fully understand the challenges associated with engaging in sexual acts, say, once a week, for the sake of an otherwise good and healthy relationship or marriage. And it's exceedingly difficult for us to understand why we might not be worth it. In my experience with an asexual wife, I understand that there's no physical attraction to me, or anybody else. That was not easy to comprehend at first (we all want to be physically desirable to our partners). But once I wrapped my head around that, things were okay. My wife does get something out of sex, so at the moment, it's worth it to her. I don't believe she forces herself to do anything she doesn't want to do. She does get physical pleasure from it, which she enjoys (but does not require the way most of us do). She does get closeness and intimacy (which she DOES require). And she gets a good relationship from it (which she also desires).

A couple of years ago, I had a post in which I compared sexual needs to (I think it was) bowling. Weird analogy, I know, but it's what popped in my head at the time. Now I can take or leave bowling, and could never bowl again in my life and I wouldn't think twice about it. But when I do it, I have fun.

That said, if I married someone who likes to bowl once or twice a week, I'm not sure how long I could keep that going, or how fun it would be after a year or two of that. That would be up to me. Whether the trade off would be worth it, I suppose. Maybe eventually I'd grow to hate it. Maybe it'd just become part of my life and I wouldn't think twice about it. Tuesday and Saturday becomes bowling night. Or I could go all-in and we'd join a league, my wife would be happy and it's a small sacrifice I'd make for her sake.

IMO, there's no harm in doing something that makes your partner happy, provided it doesn't make you UNhappy. Would I like to bowl twice a week? No, not particularly. But if it was important to my wife, I almost certainly would, and would make the absolute best of it. After all, it's time spent together.

On the flip side, I'd expect her to understand that bowling is not a high priority to me, and that she shouldn't expect me to view it the same way she does. I wouldn't want to be berated for throwing a gutter ball once in a while.
One way to describe "the challenges associated with engaging in sexual acts, say, once a week, for the sake of an otherwise good and healthy relationship or marriage": think of someone you really love, but in a nonsexual way. Someone you adore and would lay down your life for. Your grandmother, your brother, your parent, your child. Now think how it would feel to be obliged to perform sexual acts with them, because they really want you to, weekly or more often. Sort of icky, right? You would think, why is this necessary to prove my love? Can't they realize how much I love them without going down this road that is so unnatural for me?

Having sex without desire is no fun. There are barriers of smell and taste that are much easier to cross, per scientific research, when arousal is present.

It's not like bowling. Bowling is an activity that you can do while dressed and reasonably dry and clean, without climbing on top of somebody naked or having them climb on top of you. There's no penetration involved in bowling, or bodily secretions. I think a person being penetrated needs to be fairly happy about that in order to enjoy it.

Last edited by 2020hindsight; 11-15-2016 at 07:55 PM.
2020hindsight is offline  
post #117 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 07:53 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 37
Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
The tragic hope of the HD that the LD will come to enjoy it, and of the LD that the HD will get tired of it. I wonder either of those actually happens.

Sadly the attempts by both at compromise make this worse:

The LD tries to please the HD, and the HD interprets that as the LD starting to enjoy sex.

The HD tries to suppress their desire and not pressure the LD. The LD interprets that as the HD finally getting tired of sex.

I guess I'd ask the same question: did you consider an open marriage as a way you could both get at least something like what you wanted?
I would have felt that an open marriage would have been dangerous for our family in a number of ways:

- the danger of exposure to disease (from her to him to me) and the very real health consequences of venereal infection, especially for women

- the danger of a sexual partner becoming pregnant, which could result in a considerable financial drain on our family, in the form of child support for 18 years and very possibly big legal expenses

- the danger of a sexual partner making unreasonable demands, perhaps for money, perhaps pressure to leave the marriage, perhaps for time away from the family

- the danger of my husband falling in love with the new sex partner and leaving the family, leaving my children without a father

- the danger of my husband contracting the AIDS virus, which could ruin his health and possibly cut his life short

That's just off the top of my head. I should explain that, before our marriage, my husband knew all about my sexual nature (or rather my lack of a sexual nature), and he insisted that he wouldn't be happy spending his life with anyone but me, just as I was. I would never have gotten married otherwise. We also lived together for four years before we got married, so he knew the real me very well. Consequently, I would have taken a request for an open marriage from him as a betrayal of all the promises he made that convinced me to get married.
2020hindsight is offline  
post #118 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 09:40 PM
Member
 
alexm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,723
Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2020hindsight View Post
One way to describe "the challenges associated with engaging in sexual acts, say, once a week, for the sake of an otherwise good and healthy relationship or marriage": think of someone you really love, but in a nonsexual way. Someone you adore and would lay down your life for. Your grandmother, your brother, your parent, your child. Now think how it would feel to be obliged to perform sexual acts with them, because they really want you to, weekly or more often. Sort of icky, right? You would think, why is this necessary to prove my love? Can't they realize how much I love them without going down this road that is so unnatural for me?

Having sex without desire is no fun. There are barriers of smell and taste that are much easier to cross, per scientific research, when arousal is present.

It's not like bowling. Bowling is an activity that you can do while dressed and reasonably dry and clean, without climbing on top of somebody naked or having them climb on top of you. There's no penetration involved in bowling, or bodily secretions. I think a person being penetrated needs to be fairly happy about that in order to enjoy it.
Fair enough.

But that then begs the question - why marry? (or date, for that matter). I understand that one doesn't want to be alone (though we are seeing, in this thread, an almost overjoyment of being alone, if not at least an acceptance of it, when all is said and done).

If ones KNOWS this is the way they are, then why string somebody along, ostensibly for life? If you KNOW you simply can not provide for your spouse in this, or any other major way, then why put that upon them? (or yourself, for that matter).

Apples and oranges, but when my ex wife left me, she eventually told me she had fallen out of love with me YEARS earlier. She didn't want to 'hurt me'. The irony is that it hurt MORE, and ultimately it was selfish on her part, under the guise of being selfLESS towards me. What would have hurt me less, would have been to have those years back, which she essentially took from me.

I would feel the same way if my wife told me she felt the same way you or OpenMinded did about the subject - especially about it like being with a family member. Reading this thread makes me think there's a distinct possibility this IS how she feels about it, as much as I try to think not. I would be furious, TBH.
alexm is offline  
post #119 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 09:55 PM
Member
 
alexm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,723
Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2020hindsight View Post
I would have felt that an open marriage would have been dangerous for our family in a number of ways:

- the danger of exposure to disease (from her to him to me) and the very real health consequences of venereal infection, especially for women

Not a problem if he isn't having sex with you

- the danger of a sexual partner becoming pregnant, which could result in a considerable financial drain on our family, in the form of child support for 18 years and very possibly big legal expenses

A vasectomy is a quick and easy procedure. I speak from experience.

- the danger of a sexual partner making unreasonable demands, perhaps for money, perhaps pressure to leave the marriage, perhaps for time away from the family

If any of those happen, then that arrangement would end. The other party would have no leg to stand on in regards to any of those demands.

- the danger of my husband falling in love with the new sex partner and leaving the family, leaving my children without a father

If you are unwilling to provide your spouse with the basic emotional and sexual needs, that's the risk you run - losing him or her to somebody else. This implies a lack of trust, that he would fall in love with somebody else. It's my opinion that this IS an unwillingness, not an inability, to provide these needs. It is difficult to do so, but not an impossibility, and marriage is chock-full of things we don't want, or even generally dislike doing, for the sake of the person we love.

- the danger of my husband contracting the AIDS virus, which could ruin his health and possibly cut his life short

HIV in the Western world is of fairly small concern these days. There are drugs that severely minimize the symptoms and effects of contracting it, and people simply don't die of AIDS any more in countries where health care is available to all. One is also under legal obligation to disclose if they have HIV.

I would imagine that if some such arrangement was made to have an outside-the-marriage sex partner, it would not be with some random person, and more than likely be with someone who is in a similar situation. It's more common than you think.


That's just off the top of my head. I should explain that, before our marriage, my husband knew all about my sexual nature (or rather my lack of a sexual nature), and he insisted that he wouldn't be happy spending his life with anyone but me, just as I was. I would never have gotten married otherwise. We also lived together for four years before we got married, so he knew the real me very well. Consequently, I would have taken a request for an open marriage from him as a betrayal of all the promises he made that convinced me to get married.
Genuine question - did he know that you felt the way you described about sex, or did he simply think you had little to no desire? There's a big difference. Lack of desire, but a willingness and ability to take part, and even generally enjoy it (or at least not be repulsed by it) is a far cry from literally not wanting to have sex, at all, period, full stop.

I, too, would have been okay with the woman I loved being generally uninterested in sex, provided the rest of her was good or great. However, I would not have been okay with it if she were to tell me within the early days of our relationship that she was repulsed by sex and never wanted to do it.

It's my opinion, and it may be harsh but - if a person who is dating and otherwise looking for a relationship and eventually marriage, feels this way about sex and sexuality, it should be disclosed immediately. Not gradually. Not when you build up enough trust to drop this kind of thing, not after months or years of faking it - immediately. Like second date.

If this is how one is - it's perfectly okay. We are who we are, and there's no judgement (from me, at least). This isn't about HOW one feels about the subject, it's about disclosing unbelievably important information during the early stages of a relationship. The stage at which two people make decisions about whether each other is "the one", and if they want to spend their lives together.

AFAIK, my wife isn't repulsed by sex, but this thread is now making me question it. Maybe she is. Regardless, the fact that she has never been sexually attracted to anyone in her life, never had the urge for sex or to masturbate, never got (or gets) turned on by anything, external or otherwise, and could live without sex the rest of her life - I wish I knew that back then, not 4 years later after we bought a house together and were engaged.

Would it have changed my mind about her? I honestly don't know. Maybe, maybe not. But at least I would have had that information to go on in order to make the best decision for ME.

Last edited by alexm; 11-15-2016 at 10:04 PM.
alexm is offline  
post #120 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 10:29 PM
Member
 
Faithful Wife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 10,848
Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexm View Post
AFAIK, my wife isn't repulsed by sex, but this thread is now making me question it. Maybe she is. Regardless, the fact that she has never been sexually attracted to anyone in her life, never had the urge for sex or to masturbate, never got (or gets) turned on by anything, external or otherwise, and could live without sex the rest of her life - I wish I knew that back then, not 4 years later after we bought a house together and were engaged.

Would it have changed my mind about her? I honestly don't know. Maybe, maybe not. But at least I would have had that information to go on in order to make the best decision for ME.
Alex in your case, I don't think your wife was self aware enough to have told you the truth.

She may be now, if you and she were to break up (especially if it was over sex and you made it clear, and also if you told her things like the above) she may understand that she should not seek out a partner who is sexual while she feels asexual. She may see now that this will always just cause pain for her and her partners. But she still didn't really get that about herself when you two got together (the second time).

When people are that far off from the middle of the bell curve in some area, they frequently just do their best to fit in to the world and behave as if they are not so far off from the middle. They pick up behaviors by watching others and emulate them. In your wife's case, she tried to emulate a sexual woman largely because this was simply expected of women in general and because "men expect sex"...this was the cultural narrative middle of the bell curve she then tried to emulate.

It isn't that difficult for women to have sex that appears enthusiastic, if looking enthusiastic itself is their goal. So for her to emulate a sexual woman wasn't that difficult and it quickly just became part of her life. She didn't question it much (because being asexual, she really didn't get why people are so into sex, but also being asexual she simply didn't think about the matter much at all). She likely just accepted this is the way of the world and fit herself into it.

This does not mean she didn't enjoy sex and feel arousal. To her that was a separate matter which she kept privately to herself...but again, she didn't think about it too much because she is asexual. She thought "this is who I am, this is what I enjoy, I don't really enjoy this, this and this, but I have the sense that everyone around me is way more into sex than I am so I try to fit in, and now fitting in is part of who I am, too". Eventually, this was just her world view.

You have asked her to challenge her own world view, and I'm sure she has done that more with you than ever before.

But she could not have told you any of this when you met. She saw no issue with her world view nor with her sexuality or her desire to just fit in with the middle of the bell curve folks. She wanted to be with you and did what she felt "people do" when they get into a relationship together. In the sense that she was completely unaware of the toll her sexuality (later self identified as asexuality) would have on you, she did not lie or deceive you or coerce you or do a bait and switch. I'm sure she just loved you and acted as she wanted to, in those moments. The question of whether or not she was really into it or ever will be....is probably just too fuzzy to ever sort out. Even for her.

Remember the goal of feminism: Making sure only alphas get laid!
Faithful Wife is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on Talk About Marriage, you must first register. Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Important! Your username will be visible to the public next to anything you post and could show up in search engines like Google. If you are concerned about anonymity, PLEASE choose a username that will not be recognizable to anyone you know.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Sex Starved Wife EleGirl The Ladies' Lounge 441 Yesterday 05:59 PM
Is Sex The "Bottom Line"? Vega Sex in Marriage 1357 04-24-2017 03:39 PM
you did it for other men, but not me? nogutsnoglory Sex in Marriage 2775 03-15-2017 01:35 PM
Sexless marriage Rhapsodee The Ladies' Lounge 13 08-27-2016 10:54 PM
What to do? Ray83 Sex in Marriage 32 12-31-2015 09:44 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome