The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life. - Page 9 - Talk About Marriage
Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

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post #121 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 10:42 PM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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New data. Last night I did a bunch of nice things for my wife in bed, but let her know that I really wasn't interested in her reciprocating. I said I was happy to please her, but trying to give me HJs was just getting her frustrated since I was so slow, and didn't do much for me. (I wasn't trying to be passive-aggressive, I just really didn't feel like another HJ).

She responded by trying to do much more for me including some oral (something that is normally extremely rare). I honestly told her that she didn't need to do that, that I knew she hated it - but this time she said she didn't mind.


My best read on this is that its "control" again. She had decided that we were going to have sex, and that part of that was that I should get an O. Having decided that, she was happy to do whatever it took.


I'm waiting to see what happens next. Its possible that she has found that this and other things are a way to get me an O more easily (she is very "goal" driven in sex). That could be nice. OTOH, its quite possible that next time I'll get a "you only like things that I dislike" complaint.

I have BTW suggested a wide range of things I would enjoy in bed, but she normally doesn't want to do those either.
As to this...I think if you were willing to simply not accept any sex that isn't really awesome and good for you, and tell her this, you would get a lot more and better sex. She is showing you this above.

And I think you could gently deliver this message to her, and even though she may pout, you can go on being the loving Richard you are and just wait until she gets over it.

Highly likely that if you never again accepted a crappy hand job and made it clear that passionate sex is all you are willing to get an erection for...you will eventually get passionate sex.

You are obviously masturbating as you need and desire too, and that is good. Just focus your entire sexual life around your solo endeavors for now.

Enjoy your wife romping around in her lingerie. Some people are just nudists. They enjoy it for its own sake. Look at her body and fantasize about her when you MB. Fantasize about the things you'd love to do with her. Picture it and get deeply into it. (Fantasize about whatever else you want, too).

She may withdraw from you for awhile. Just ignore it and go on about your life, being loving to her as you always are. She will eventually either initiate a discussion about sex, or just initiate sex.

The first time, it still may not be the passionate sex you wanted. In this case, kiss her on the cheek and thank her for the great effort...tell her she is so very sexy, but that this or that doesn't work for you and you really only want good sex if any sex at all.

Then tell her you would be happy to just make out, if she wants. And if she does, enjoy it like teenagers in a car. Then don't let it go past a certain point, kiss her on the cheek and tell her you are tired, ready for bed, love you, night night.

Do this as many times as necessary until you get actual passionate sex.

Or....until you see that it will never be forthcoming. If that ends up being the case, you are no worse off than you are now, except you won't have to accept crappy HJ's.

Note: in a previous post I had said your only hope is to give up trying to change her. Please understand, the above advice is not going to change her. If it is successful, it will merely manipulate her into having sex with you because she will see that you will not accept crumbs anymore.

She may actually get totally into it, though. That is the wild card here. It would seem from the quoted example, this is a possibility. Her feminine ego may have to rise to this challenge and in doing so, it might prove to be so pleasurable that she does actually shift in your direction some what.

Remember the goal of feminism: Making sure only alphas get laid!
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post #122 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 11:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

I do agree, and I've almost completely stopped hoping for change. Every now and the though something happens that gives me irrational hope again - but I'm getting pretty good at quashing it.


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Richard, I think the answer is that you have to accept what little sex you have, be happy with it, and stop hoping to change her. I think you would be so much happier.

If she were physically incapable of having sex, you know you wouldn't like it but you'd accept it and deal.

To me, this is basically the same.

I'm saying this because you've made it clear you will never divorce her. So this is the only path to you having more happiness....to completely accept your situation.
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post #123 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-16-2016, 12:09 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

Things a couple of nights ago were surprising. I'd done some nice things for her - something I'm happy to do even if she doesn't reciprocate. She started the standard HJ again, and I told her I really was too tired, and we should just curl up together and nap. Then a bit later she said she wanted to do something for me, and when I said I was tired and it would take a long time, she started to do some oral. (this is REALLY rare). I actually told her to stop because I knew she hated it, but she said she didn't mind doing it.

OK, so it was lots of fun and she seemed very happy. (I ignore the little voice saying "great, problem solved").

I think though that she sees it as a trade. I gave her an O, so she has to give me one to be fair. (somehow O's are all that seem to count - no effort to reciprocate any other specific things I do).

If I turn down anything other than oral, she will quickly strart to feel that I'm trying to manipulate her. She's in the past said "the only thing you like is the thing I don't like". (not really true, I like a wide range of things, but she dislikes all of them.

This still gets to the strange issue: She seems happy to do oral to get me off when she thinks she owes me - even though I've many times made it clear (and meant it) that its not a trade, she really doesn't have to take care of me. But, she is completely adverse to doing it if I ask, and has claimed it is gross and disgusting.

Its as if she feels like the marriage "contract" means that she has to give me an O once a week, unless something more important comes up. That O can be delivered in the most efficient way possible. If I'm tired, she will do other things, but my asking for more than the minimum is my being unreasonable.

I wonder what she would think If I just got her off in a couple of minutes each time with the vibrator, rather than spending lots of time doing other nice thigns. The risk of course is that maybe that is what she actually wants....

Again, mostly I'm just very curious, not expecting thigns to change.
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post #124 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-16-2016, 12:26 AM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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Fair enough.

But that then begs the question - why marry? (or date, for that matter). I understand that one doesn't want to be alone (though we are seeing, in this thread, an almost overjoyment of being alone, if not at least an acceptance of it, when all is said and done).

If ones KNOWS this is the way they are, then why string somebody along, ostensibly for life? If you KNOW you simply can not provide for your spouse in this, or any other major way, then why put that upon them? (or yourself, for that matter).
When I was growing up, there was no word or concept for people like me. As a girl, I used to think that everyone was like me. When I got a little older, I realized they weren't. But I still believed in the transforming power of love; I hoped that true love would awaken that side of life for me, eventually...a very old-fashioned idea, but one reinforced by romantic movies, songs, and novels about love being the key to sexual awakening.

In short, we fell in love like everyone else and we were inseparable. We wanted to spend our lives together. Sex meant nothing to me, and we were both OK with that.

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Apples and oranges, but when my ex wife left me, she eventually told me she had fallen out of love with me YEARS earlier. She didn't want to 'hurt me'. The irony is that it hurt MORE, and ultimately it was selfish on her part, under the guise of being selfLESS towards me. What would have hurt me less, would have been to have those years back, which she essentially took from me.

I would feel the same way if my wife told me she felt the same way you or OpenMinded did about the subject - especially about it like being with a family member. Reading this thread makes me think there's a distinct possibility this IS how she feels about it, as much as I try to think not. I would be furious, TBH.
I was deeply in love with my husband and would do anything for him. All the sex that I had, I had for love. The hardest part of the divorce for me was turning off that love for him. But I had to do it to survive.
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post #125 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-16-2016, 12:34 AM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

Richard do either, or both of you, have asbergers?
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post #126 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-16-2016, 12:58 AM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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Genuine question - did he know that you felt the way you described about sex, or did he simply think you had little to no desire? There's a big difference. Lack of desire, but a willingness and ability to take part, and even generally enjoy it (or at least not be repulsed by it) is a far cry from literally not wanting to have sex, at all, period, full stop.
First, my response to your brushing off the dangers associated with adultery. The dangers are all real, and they do happen to people and bring a lot of misery. Vasectomies fail. People get infected. Affair partners get crazy and do awful things. I can't live with those kind of risks. I'm something of a worrywart even without all of that.

Second, your question about whether he knew I felt the way I described about sex, or did he simply think I had little or no desire? I don't see any difference between the two. What I've described is what little or no desire feels like. I was willing and able to take part, for love. Doesn't that count for anything?

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I, too, would have been okay with the woman I loved being generally uninterested in sex, provided the rest of her was good or great. However, I would not have been okay with it if she were to tell me within the early days of our relationship that she was repulsed by sex and never wanted to do it.
I wouldn't say I was repulsed by sex. Just completely uninterested. I did tell him early on. We laughed about how he got so much out of sex and I got nothing. I didn't fake or pretend.

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It's my opinion, and it may be harsh but - if a person who is dating and otherwise looking for a relationship and eventually marriage, feels this way about sex and sexuality, it should be disclosed immediately. Not gradually. Not when you build up enough trust to drop this kind of thing, not after months or years of faking it - immediately. Like second date.

If this is how one is - it's perfectly okay. We are who we are, and there's no judgement (from me, at least). This isn't about HOW one feels about the subject, it's about disclosing unbelievably important information during the early stages of a relationship. The stage at which two people make decisions about whether each other is "the one", and if they want to spend their lives together.
As I tried to explain in an earlier response, I was young, and I had no way of knowing that the way I was at that age was the way I'd be forever. I thought my sexuality would just blossom somehow..eventually. Let me repeat that I never faked or pretended that I understood why people were so obsessed with sex. It was clear that other people experienced a lot of pleasure with sex. I still thought it might happen for me one day.

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AFAIK, my wife isn't repulsed by sex, but this thread is now making me question it. Maybe she is. Regardless, the fact that she has never been sexually attracted to anyone in her life, never had the urge for sex or to masturbate, never got (or gets) turned on by anything, external or otherwise, and could live without sex the rest of her life - I wish I knew that back then, not 4 years later after we bought a house together and were engaged.

Would it have changed my mind about her? I honestly don't know. Maybe, maybe not. But at least I would have had that information to go on in order to make the best decision for ME.
Wow, sexually speaking, your wife is just like me! When that's how you are, living that way is just normal to you. It's the people who are so obsessed with sex that seem bizarre.

I'm sorry your wife wasn't upfront with you. Maybe she thought that love and marriage would change her, over time, as I did.
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post #127 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-16-2016, 01:10 AM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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When people are that far off from the middle of the bell curve in some area, they frequently just do their best to fit in to the world and behave as if they are not so far off from the middle. They pick up behaviors by watching others and emulate them. In your wife's case, she tried to emulate a sexual woman largely because this was simply expected of women in general and because "men expect sex"...this was the cultural narrative middle of the bell curve she then tried to emulate.

It isn't that difficult for women to have sex that appears enthusiastic, if looking enthusiastic itself is their goal. So for her to emulate a sexual woman wasn't that difficult and it quickly just became part of her life. She didn't question it much (because being asexual, she really didn't get why people are so into sex, but also being asexual she simply didn't think about the matter much at all). She likely just accepted this is the way of the world and fit herself into it.
Wow, this description is great. This is basically how I saw the world as a girl. It's pretty easy to learn what's expected from women sexually by reading books, and you'd have to be pretty stupid not to realize what men want and why they're chasing after you. They want sex. That's the cultural narrative. So you comply to the best of your ability, to fit in with the world as you look for love.
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post #128 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-16-2016, 01:13 AM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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I was willing and able to take part, for love. Doesn't that count for anything?








Which of you initiated divorce?
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post #129 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-16-2016, 02:44 AM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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Again sounds very familiar.
As I'm sure you experienced, communication about sex is really difficult in this situation. There is so little common ground for discussion, your thoughts are just so different. Each sort of expecting that the other will change because the other's behavior makes so little sense.

Its really difficult to say "I don't like sex and never will". or "Even though I love you, I can't have a happy life without sex".

To one person there is the never-ending question of "why does he/she want me to do this think I dislike? There are so many other things we enjoy together. They wouldn't pressure me if they really loved me."

To the other "why can't he/she enjoy something that means so much to me, or at least enjoy making me happy. They would if they really loved me".


So, a question: did you consider an open marriage so he could have sex with someone else? If not, why not? If you were happy with no sex at all, that eliminates the classic worries of disease etc.
Sexual incompatibility is a tough road to travel for both spouses and I don't recommend staying together when the extremes are as severe as they were in my case. I didn't consider an open marriage (not something my religious upbringing would allow me to think about) although he solved that problem by cheating. Despite being anti-divorce in those days, I did suggest we end it after the first round of cheating but he was totally opposed to divorce. So for many decades we continued the dance where I felt like I was giving far too much and he felt like I wasn't giving nearly enough. The pressure was tremendous. Not a good way to live, obviously.

Yes, communication about sex was very difficult and never productive long-term. It was like we were each speaking a foreign language the other didn't understand. That's why I don't hold much hope for the majority of couples with severe sexual incompatibility (especially when it's there from the beginning). Some manage to turn it around. Most don't. The gulf is usually just too wide.
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post #130 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-16-2016, 02:59 AM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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What you describe is the same as the sex life in my marriage. I provided sex on demand and drew no barriers in what sexual acts i would do. But I honestly would rather not have been doing any of it. It was all for him. With the best will in the world, that gets a bit dreary after a quarter century or so. I couldn't help but wonder why he wanted to do any of it, especially as we moved toward middle age.

I guess one of my illusions was that he'd probably get less interested in sex as he grew older.
Yes, I thought age would take a toll but that turned out not to be the case. Ill health did cause a slow-down but sex continued well into our 60's.

I came from a very large extended family where females tolerated sex as a duty of marriage. I knew of no female in that time and place who enjoyed sex -- or at least would admit to it. Sex was for males and females were expected to put up with it. That was the lesson I absorbed from those years growing up. What was much more likely is there were females in my family who loved sex but that wasn't the cultural norm so they kept that to themselves.
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post #131 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-16-2016, 03:23 AM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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I came from a very large extended family where females tolerated sex as a duty of marriage. I knew of no female in that time and place who enjoyed sex -- or at least would admit to it. Sex was for males and females were expected to put up with it. That was the lesson I absorbed from those years growing up. What was much more likely is there were females in my family who loved sex but that wasn't the cultural norm so they kept that to themselves.
I thought this might be a generational attitude but you have reminded me of a woman I used to know. When talking about sex ed in schools she described how the only time her mother talked to her about sex was the night before her wedding referring to it as 'a duty'. She is probably about 50.

Having a mother who never, ever talks about sex I did think better to be completely taboo than talked about it in a derogatory way to young women starting out in married life.

If anyone from TAM could spend an afternoon with my MIL they would see a perfect example of how to **** someone up when it comes to sex. Firstly she is sex obsessed but at the same time finds it disgusting. She freely talks about 'bedroom cuddling' being totally offensive to her. If she sees a sex scene on TV rather than turning over, she writes to the TV channel to complain and tries to get others to do the same. She tried to ban her adult children from listening to radio 4 because she once HEARD a sex scene. Anyone who is not married is gay. Homosexuals are pedophiles. Women who wear red lipstick are prostitutes. Porn turns men into serial killers or rapists. This is the type of conversation she has over Sunday lunch.

I made it my job to give my daughter a positive education in sex from a very young age. She comes home from her grandmas with her latest sex stories and thinks its hilarious . Hopefully I have done a good job at protecting her from all that BS.

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post #132 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-16-2016, 03:31 AM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

My ex-husband pushed for marriage. We had been friends for a couple of years when we began dating and I enjoyed being with him to the exclusion of everyone else but I was never madly in love with him (or anyone else) although I loved him. I don't even know what "madly in love" would be like. Obviously, I knew sex was necessary in marriage and I was prepared (or thought I was) to deal with that. However, I wasn't really prepared at all. I didn't grow up in a very affectionate family. Very few hugs and kisses. Arms length for the most part and I was comfortable with that from childhood on.

The intimacy necessary for sex always felt like an invasion of my personal space. I had to prepare myself mentally each time. I never got used to it. To actually crave that intimacy is something I can't begin to understand no matter how hard I try. That's why people like me shouldn't be married. Fifty years ago I thought I could somehow manage to make it work. But I couldn't.
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post #133 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-16-2016, 03:40 AM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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I thought this might be a generational attitude but you have reminded me of a woman I used to know. When talking about sex ed in schools she described how the only time her mother talked to her about sex was the night before her wedding referring to it as 'a duty'. She is probably about 50.

Having a mother who never, ever talks about sex I did think better to be completely taboo than talked about it in a derogatory way to young women starting out in married life.

If anyone from TAM could spend an afternoon with my MIL they would see a perfect example of how to **** someone up when it comes to sex. Firstly she is sex obsessed but at the same time finds it disgusting. She freely talks about 'bedroom cuddling' being totally offensive to her. If she sees a sex scene on TV rather than turning over, she writes to the TV channel to complain and tries to get others to do the same. She tried to ban her adult children from listening to radio 4 because she once HEARD a sex scene. Anyone who is not married is gay. Homosexuals are pedophiles. Women who wear red lipstick are prostitutes. Porn turns men into serial killers or rapists. This is the type of conversation she has over Sunday lunch.

I made it my job to give my daughter a positive education in sex from a very young age. She comes home from her grandmas with her latest sex stories and thinks its hilarious . Hopefully I have done a good job at protecting her from all that BS.
Yes, in my case the generational thing has no doubt contributed to who I am. Duty sex. All those lessons run very deep.

And I've known more than one woman very similar to your MIL. They do exist. Unfortunately.
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post #134 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-16-2016, 07:03 AM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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This still gets to the strange issue: She seems happy to do oral to get me off when she thinks she owes me - even though I've many times made it clear (and meant it) that its not a trade, she really doesn't have to take care of me. But, she is completely adverse to doing it if I ask, and has claimed it is gross and disgusting.
My wife is the exact same way about oral sex. She (claims to) hate it, yet does it as part of foreplay about 80% of the time. In the last month alone, I've received 2 BJ's to completion, which is more than I'd received in the entire past calendar year. The ruminator (thanks FW!) in me says that it was instead of sex, which is where I had thought both encounters were headed. Each time, I told her I wanted to be inside her, yet she mumbled "nuh-uh" and kept going, quite enthusiastically, so I just went with it. Worth noting that each of those occasions, she had had an O prior to mine, so it wasn't one-sided.

So it's clear to me that my wife, in no way, shape or form, wants me to ask, hint or otherwise assume a BJ will occur at any time, including as foreplay. In the beginning of our relationship I made the rookie mistake of changing my body position during foreplay (as in moving my penis towards her mouth...) and it was not appreciated. I didn't know - up to that point, BJ's were consistently part of foreplay, so I made the assumption that this move was okay. For some people it is. I have no problem if a woman steers me in that direction.

So it's likely a control thing (there's that word again). Not once in ~8 years have I ever felt like my wife was hating giving me a BJ while doing so. Not once have I actually asked for one (hinted, yes - see above, but not out of the blue). But she's made it very clear, verbally, that she does not like doing it. It took her ~4 years to say this, and it was during an entirely different discussion. Why tell me this at all? Especially if you continue to do it, and do it seemingly enthusiastically (regardless of whether it's fake enthusiasm or not)? I mean, on one hand I appreciate the effort, if there really IS one. On the other, ruining the illusion that it's mutual (which I strongly believe oral sex is, but that's another discussion).

It all comes down to control, as it usually does with many, many people. In my example, she's happy to do it, provided I know that it's not something she wants to be doing. She's being a martyr. Look at me, doing this thing I hate for YOUR benefit.

I have a love/hate relationship with sex, which is a weird statement to make, but it's true. People complicate it SO much, when it's actually really very simple, IMO. This thread alone has proven that people complicate this subject to an un-ending degree. Having sex with the person you love is not complicated, and shouldn't BE complicated. It's such a base part of humans, and it's instinctual. You kiss, you hug, you hold hands, you have sex. All of those feel good, and make each other feel wanted, needed, desired - LOVED, and bring two people closer than is humanly possible. The rush of hormones during an encounter, never mind during an actual orgasm, is like a drug, literally. It just feels good, all around - provided you LET it. Yet there's this constant complication around it for so many - including myself.

Sometimes you just have to let go of the negative thought patterns. For me, worrying about whether my wife gave me oral to completion in order to avoid intercourse. Not my problem, and I have to remind myself of that. She wouldn't have done it if she wasn't receiving something in return, ie. my enjoyment.
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post #135 of 195 (permalink) Old 11-16-2016, 07:21 AM
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Re: The strange case of Ms Uhtred's sex life.

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Alex in your case, I don't think your wife was self aware enough to have told you the truth.

She may be now, if you and she were to break up (especially if it was over sex and you made it clear, and also if you told her things like the above) she may understand that she should not seek out a partner who is sexual while she feels asexual. She may see now that this will always just cause pain for her and her partners. But she still didn't really get that about herself when you two got together (the second time).

When people are that far off from the middle of the bell curve in some area, they frequently just do their best to fit in to the world and behave as if they are not so far off from the middle. They pick up behaviors by watching others and emulate them. In your wife's case, she tried to emulate a sexual woman largely because this was simply expected of women in general and because "men expect sex"...this was the cultural narrative middle of the bell curve she then tried to emulate.

It isn't that difficult for women to have sex that appears enthusiastic, if looking enthusiastic itself is their goal. So for her to emulate a sexual woman wasn't that difficult and it quickly just became part of her life. She didn't question it much (because being asexual, she really didn't get why people are so into sex, but also being asexual she simply didn't think about the matter much at all). She likely just accepted this is the way of the world and fit herself into it.

This does not mean she didn't enjoy sex and feel arousal. To her that was a separate matter which she kept privately to herself...but again, she didn't think about it too much because she is asexual. She thought "this is who I am, this is what I enjoy, I don't really enjoy this, this and this, but I have the sense that everyone around me is way more into sex than I am so I try to fit in, and now fitting in is part of who I am, too". Eventually, this was just her world view.

You have asked her to challenge her own world view, and I'm sure she has done that more with you than ever before.

But she could not have told you any of this when you met. She saw no issue with her world view nor with her sexuality or her desire to just fit in with the middle of the bell curve folks. She wanted to be with you and did what she felt "people do" when they get into a relationship together. In the sense that she was completely unaware of the toll her sexuality (later self identified as asexuality) would have on you, she did not lie or deceive you or coerce you or do a bait and switch. I'm sure she just loved you and acted as she wanted to, in those moments. The question of whether or not she was really into it or ever will be....is probably just too fuzzy to ever sort out. Even for her.
I believe you're quite right about her not fully knowing herself at the time, however she does fully admit that she felt different, as far back as her teenage years. Even her vague descriptions of how she was with her most immediate ex should have rang alarm bells (in both of us). She had told me once that the last 14 or so months she was with him, they had sex once. At the time she told me this, she pointed to the fact that she simply didn't want to for a variety of reasons (newborn baby, his not helping at all, his expectations of sex, he was a 2-pump chump, his accusations of her getting it elsewhere starting a month after having the baby. Basically, he turned into an all-around a-hole).

What I failed to see at the time she told me this, was that she was fully capable of going over a year without sex, period, and didn't miss it, or particularly care. She had also said that there were other similar long stretches in her life in which she didn't have sex (or even masturbate) at all. 6 months here, another year there, etc. Times she chose to be single and focus on work and/or herself. Not abnormal, but at the same time, not quite normal, either.

To clarify, what I'd be upset about is if she only fully realized the scope of this while she was with me. 20-ish years of being sexually active, numerous boyfriends, two other LTR's, children, etc. And it took being married to me to admit to herself that she didn't like sex.

That said, I've had rather bad luck with previous relationships... One woman I dated briefly when I was 19 or so, I was her last BOYfriend. My ex wife lived a lie for almost 14 years with me (not being attracted to me).

So to me, this would be similar. Living a lie, and otherwise 'faking it' because I'm a good guy, stable, loving, blah blah blah. Worth the charade for all of those reasons, but for how long? My ex wife made it sound like she was a f***ing martyr for giving up her physical attraction pre-requisites for me. She had a type, and I wasn't it, but I checked all the other boxes that her 'type' hadn't. (until she met a guy who WAS her type AND checked those other boxes). That girl I dated gave it one last try before admitting she liked women. And maybe my wife will wake up one day and realize she can't do this any more, either. Maybe she'll meet somebody at some point who feels the same way she does about sex, and there you go. No more having to deal with these 'pressures' of doing something you don't want to do.

What wouldn't make sense to me is that she would have had ample opportunity to get to know herself (particularly during those long stretches of being single and having no sex whatsoever). I wouldn't expect my spouse to FULLY know themselves (we're always learning), but with something like this - yes. Don't use me as the litmus test, please. I've already been the human guinea pig - twice.

Last edited by alexm; 11-16-2016 at 07:29 AM.
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