Wives (and husbands) who don't want their partner using porn - Page 10 - Talk About Marriage
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post #136 of 371 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 09:20 AM
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Re: Wives (and husbands) who don't want their partner using porn

One of the other issues with porn is that like any other addiction the more you feed it the more it grows. Just like drugs - the longer you use them, the more you need to get high.

When I first married I caught my H with Victoria's Secret catalogs and the SI swimsuit issue a few times. He moved from magazines to cable porn movies a few times a week. Then to internet porn almost every single day.

A few weeks before we split up, I was cleaning up old files on our computer and found a few in the internet cache that triggered a serious warning signal with me. He was watching both women and men with animals. He was also watching rape and abuse porn. It's part of the reason that when he abandoned me a few weeks later, I didn't beg him to come back the way I had the past two times he had left.

The road goes ever ever on, down from the door where it began... JRR Tolkien
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post #137 of 371 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 09:27 AM
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Re: Wives (and husbands) who don't want their partner using porn

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Originally Posted by Hellomynameis View Post
One of the other issues with porn is that like any other addiction the more you feed it the more it grows. Just like drugs - the longer you use them, the more you need to get high.

When I first married I caught my H with Victoria's Secret catalogs and the SI swimsuit issue a few times. He moved from magazines to cable porn movies a few times a week. Then to internet porn almost every single day.

A few weeks before we split up, I was cleaning up old files on our computer and found a few in the internet cache that triggered a serious warning signal with me. He was watching both women and men with animals. He was also watching rape and abuse porn. It's part of the reason that when he abandoned me a few weeks later, I didn't beg him to come back the way I had the past two times he had left.
My goodness! I would surely hope you would not want someone like that back!

Onward and upward, my dear!

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #138 of 371 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 09:33 AM
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Re: Wives (and husbands) who don't want their partner using porn

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Originally Posted by EllisRedding View Post
The way Daisy framed it, it is blame shifting. As she said, using porn could be the reason for ending the marriage in her post. How about the SO who deprioritizes sex in the relationship, or rejects? Sorry, they are the ones responsible, not the person who may be using porn as a way to meet their needs that the SO is neglecting.


I do agree with this as I have stated before I do believe in some (many?) situations porn can be a negative in a relationship. I only have issues with, as I stated above, with spouses who deprioritize/neglect/reject the sexual needs of the other person but then gets all bent out of shape b/c that person turns to porn as a means to meet some of those needs.
Instead of putting a band-aid (porn) on the issue (partner who deprioritizes sex), why not be honest and address it head on?

You stated that it's the responsibility of the person deprioritizing sex to get their spouse to stop looking at porn to meet their needs. What if that person doesn't know about the porn use, as in Daisy's case? It's not blame shifting if the partner doesn't know about the problem.

I get it. It's easier to fap off to porn than to bring up the topic of sexual mismatch to a partner but that's not resolving the issue. Be honest about it. That's all most of the women here objecting to porn are saying. If you enjoy porn and/or use it as a means to get needs met, then be honest about it to your partner. If they don't like it, they can either free you (collective you) to meet someone more compatible, find a way to meet those needs so that porn is no longer necessary, or accept it as a part of life.
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post #139 of 371 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 09:35 AM
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Re: Wives (and husbands) who don't want their partner using porn

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I agree that lying is generally bad. There are sadly though some of us in relationships where our spouses do not want sex. Do not think we should want sex. Do no think we should use porn. They also do not see anything wrong with their view of the universe and have no desire to discuss or change it. In this situation I don't see a problem with lying about porn. (or divorcing which in many cases is the right answer).
I think the problem is that many men see sex as an entitlement of marriage, something separate from love, romance, nurturing, caring, support.

For many women, including myself, sex comes about as a result of those things. We do not see it as a separate entitlement. That would feel cheap and hollow to us.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #140 of 371 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 09:39 AM
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Re: Wives (and husbands) who don't want their partner using porn

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Originally Posted by Daisy12 View Post
If lying is the only way you can keep your spouse from leaving, are they even worth being with.
Totally agree.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #141 of 371 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 09:41 AM
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Re: Wives (and husbands) who don't want their partner using porn

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Originally Posted by Lila View Post
Instead of putting a band-aid (porn) on the issue (partner who deprioritizes sex), why not be honest and address it head on?

You stated that it's the responsibility of the person deprioritizing sex to get their spouse to stop looking at porn to meet their needs. What if that person doesn't know about the porn use, as in Daisy's case? It's not blame shifting if the partner doesn't know about the problem.

I get it. It's easier to fap off to porn than to bring up the topic of sexual mismatch to a partner but that's not resolving the issue. Be honest about it. That's all most of the women here objecting to porn are saying. If you enjoy porn and/or use it as a means to get needs met, then be honest about it to your partner. If they don't like it, they can either free you (collective you) to meet someone more compatible, find a way to meet those needs so that porn is no longer necessary, or accept it as a part of life.
My POV, which I mentioned in response to Daisy, was under the assumption that the sex issues have actually been discussed (i.e. you have actually been honest to your partner).
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post #142 of 371 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 09:42 AM
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Re: Wives (and husbands) who don't want their partner using porn

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Originally Posted by EllisRedding View Post
I agree with your point based on your experience. I am talking about more from the standpoint that the couple has discussed the issues and nothing has changed. I know the default response on TAM is "Well, then divorce the person" lol. However, everything else in the relationship could be going well, or it isn't something that the person wants to divorce over, so they find an alternative to meet their needs.
I'm a-okay with a spouse turning to porn if they've stated their needs and said they will resort to porn if those needs are not met. It's a take it or leave it situation but one where there are clear boundaries and consequences.

I think it's selfish for a spouse to hide their porn use from a non-approving partner simply because life for them is grand, barring the sex. That's lying.
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post #143 of 371 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 09:49 AM
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Re: Wives (and husbands) who don't want their partner using porn

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How do you know that the person using the toy isn't fantasizing about someone else who is not their SO? Explain how that would be different then someone watching porn to masturbate? How about someone who actually needs visual stimulation in order to masturbate (i.e. just trying to conjure up images in your heads doesn't work)? I know the impression for some (not saying you, but I have seen a few females state so) is that all a guy needs is his hand and a bar of soap, and he is off to the races. That is not necessarily true.

I'm quoting my own post from upthread, in answer to your question.





Quote:
When I masturbate, I rarely think about men. Sometimes when I orgasm, the faces of men that I've been attracted to, kind of flash before my eyes. In the past, I had fantasies in my mind. Now I mostly think of disembodied erect penises. Because that's what I crave to have sex.

I'm telling you this to make the point that we all have sexual imagery in our minds. *Especially* if you were born and raised in the last half of the 20th century. I think men call this their "spank bank".

It's not possible to go through life at this time in history without absorbing images of a sexual nature. They are abundant.

Why seek out more? Why hurt your significant other? My husband told me that he use to masturbate to the women's underwear models in the JCPenney catalog that we had mailed to our home.

And if you guys really have such insatiable sexual appetites, physical stimulation of your penises for a couple of minutes while thinking about some great cleavage you've seen recently on some women bending over in front of you in line at the grocery store [or whatever]; should be enough? Right? Why isn't it enough? I mean, you're just aching to bust a nut, right? My husband used to ejaculate before entering me on a semi-regular basis. If you're crazy horny, it doesn't take much. I'm a woman with a fraction of the testosterone you have, and I know that.

None of us are pure. But you don't have to seek out more sexual stimulation from someone other than your spouse.

Having images of the teenage girl next door in your mind while you masturbate is a fire......watching porn of having sex with teenage girls is pouring gasoline on that fire. Isn't thinking about the girl enough.

And of course I wish that my husband hadn't found every other attractive sexy woman in sight enough to ogle and masturbate to; but that's probably unavoidable, to a large extent. He isn't seeing them fully naked. And he isn't watching them having sex. And those women were not having to work in pornography in order to "entertain" him. So although having your boyfriend rubberneck a group of pretty young girls when you are walking in the mall with him is embarrassing. Minimal damage is done when he jerks off to the memory of them in the shower.

If you can't [or won't] see the difference between images that you are unavoidable exposed to in real life.....and the manufactured images of nitroglycerin grade porn.....then I don't know how to explain it. I apologize for my lack of articulation.


I'm not a saint. I don't expect sainthood from others.

I did want and expect as much fidelity of heart and mind as possible. That is MY "sexual preference". That is MY "sexual orientation".

I know, "good luck with that, lady". But that is what I truly, from my heart believe in. To me, that would be the ultimate turn-on; a real source of passion.

It's not easy living with the realization that what you want doesn't exist.

I responded to the thread's OP. For what it's worth.
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post #144 of 371 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 09:51 AM
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Re: Wives (and husbands) who don't want their partner using porn

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Originally Posted by Lila View Post
I'm a-okay with a spouse turning to porn if they've stated their needs and said they will resort to porn if those needs are not met. It's a take it or leave it situation but one where there are clear boundaries and consequences.

I think it's selfish for a spouse to hide their porn use from a non-approving partner simply because life for them is grand, barring the sex. That's lying.
See, I don't necessarily agree with part of this. If you have discussed your needs with your SO, and for one reason or the other they do not make any effort to meet, you don't have to come out and tell them "Well, if you won't meet my needs I am using porn". Does the person also have to say "Well, if you don't meet my needs I am going to masturbate"??? I am not saying lie about it, if the topic comes up be honest. Do I think though that the SO has an obligation to tell their spouse exactly what they are going to do b/c the spouse has decided to deprioritized their needs, no, that falls on the spouse who is the selfish one.
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post #145 of 371 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 09:55 AM
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Re: Wives (and husbands) who don't want their partner using porn

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See, I don't necessarily agree with part of this. If you have discussed your needs with your SO, and for one reason or the other they do not make any effort to meet, you don't have to come out and tell them "Well, if you won't meet my needs I am using porn". Does the person also have to say "Well, if you don't meet my needs I am going to masturbate"??? I am not saying lie about it, if the topic comes up be honest. Do I think though that the SO has an obligation to tell their spouse exactly what they are going to do b/c the spouse has decided to deprioritized their needs, no, that falls on the spouse who is the selfish one.
The more transparent the communication in marriage is, the more opportunity for growth and the stronger the emotional connection.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #146 of 371 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 09:57 AM
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Re: Wives (and husbands) who don't want their partner using porn

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I'm not a saint. I don't expect sainthood from others.

I did want and expect as much fidelity of heart and mind as possible. That is MY "sexual preference". That is MY "sexual orientation".

I know, "good luck with that, lady". But that is what I truly, from my heart believe in. To me, that would be the ultimate turn-on; a real source of passion.

It's not easy living with the realization that what you want doesn't exist.

I responded to the thread's OP. For what it's worth.
See, I actually understand and agree with much of this, so I am not knocking your POV. However, do I think it is reality to expect that every time someone masturbates (male or female) it is solely based on the image of their SO, no. Also, I can tell you that as much as I find my W incredibly sexy, using that image alone mentally isn't always enough when it comes to masturbating. It has nothing to do with porn as if I am some sort of porn addict as I rarely watch. However, sometimes visual stimulation is needed, plain and simple.
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post #147 of 371 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 10:08 AM
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Re: Wives (and husbands) who don't want their partner using porn

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See, I actually understand and agree with much of this, so I am not knocking your POV. However, do I think it is reality to expect that every time someone masturbates (male or female) it is solely based on the image of their SO, no. Also, I can tell you that as much as I find my W incredibly sexy, using that image alone mentally isn't always enough when it comes to masturbating. It has nothing to do with porn as if I am some sort of porn addict as I rarely watch. However, sometimes visual stimulation is needed, plain and simple.
Why not? Mental images of her are visually stimulating, no?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #148 of 371 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 10:09 AM
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Re: Wives (and husbands) who don't want their partner using porn

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Also, I can tell you that as much as I find my W incredibly sexy, using that image alone mentally isn't always enough when it comes to masturbating. It has nothing to do with porn as if I am some sort of porn addict as I rarely watch. However, sometimes visual stimulation is needed, plain and simple.


See, I think it is sad that your beautiful, sexy wife, and the thought of her, is not enough.

So, to be honest, let's just admit that we'd like to have sex with lots of other people than our significant others. Porn allows this in a virtual, vicarious sense.

If "visual stimulation" is needed, plain and simple; what did men do 150 years ago? [I picked 150 years because I don't think it would be possible for 95% + men to have access to pornography at that point.]


They were probably so exhausted from working, and had so little free time, and very few options for leisure time activities---that the need for visual stimulation beyond their wife probably didn't enter their minds. {the very wealthy and powerful have always been exceptions}

IOW, the "need" for porn, is a created need. It isn't a need at all.


It doesn't matter. Like I've already said, human beings are attracted to people other than their spouse.

Thoughts of those people are probably gonna come up if you masturbate; at least sometimes.

Pornography takes this weakness in marriage; and exploits it a million fold. And in doing so creates some of the nastiest, cruelest, sickest behavior---- to satiate the ever increasing "need" for stimulation and variety.


And I know we're never going back. It's probably going to get much worse from the point of view of someone like me.


You're on the winning side Ellis, congratulations.
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post #149 of 371 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 10:11 AM
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Re: Wives (and husbands) who don't want their partner using porn

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See, I don't necessarily agree with part of this. If you have discussed your needs with your SO, and for one reason or the other they do not make any effort to meet, you don't have to come out and tell them "Well, if you won't meet my needs I am using porn". Does the person also have to say "Well, if you don't meet my needs I am going to masturbate"??? I am not saying lie about it, if the topic comes up be honest. Do I think though that the SO has an obligation to tell their spouse exactly what they are going to do b/c the spouse has decided to deprioritized their needs, no, that falls on the spouse who is the selfish one.
We'll have to agree to disagree. Having boundaries that you can't enforce with a consequence makes them useless. Have you read the book Boundaries by Cloud?

I think this comes down to the differences in communication styles in marriage. Some people think that needs and consequences of those needs not being met should be clearly stated. Others think stating the needs in enough. For eg. there are plenty of threads on here where men/women are blind-sided by their walk away spouses. Most eventually admit they knew about the issues in the marriage but never thought the problems were so bad as to result in divorce.

I used to believe that stating needs was enough but then I realized that instead of dropping divorce papers on him, it would best to give my husband fair warning of the consequences of unmet needs. At least then, he'd have all of the information available to make an informed decision.
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post #150 of 371 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 10:17 AM
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Re: Wives (and husbands) who don't want their partner using porn

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IOW, the "need" for porn, is a created need. It isn't a need at all.
Word.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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