Different sex drives - Page 6 - Talk About Marriage
Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

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post #76 of 121 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 06:41 AM
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Re: Different sex drives

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Originally Posted by Married but Happy View Post
@scientia, you complain a lot about "myth, bias, nonsense," but have yet to offer anything useful. Or, are you as ignorant as you think the rest of us are?
You don't have to be a PhD in Rocker Science to figure out what he's saying is mostly accurate. The majority of self help books are crap filled with generalities.

Interpersonal relations are not an easy subject to tackle, and starting with bad pop psych advice really doesn't improve things. Even many real psych self help books like Schronach (sp?) are fairly hard to follow for the same reasons.
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post #77 of 121 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 07:00 AM
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Re: Different sex drives

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You don't have to be a PhD in Rocker Science
This science



or this science

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post #78 of 121 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 07:51 AM
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Re: Different sex drives

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You don't have to be a PhD in Rocker Science to figure out what he's saying is mostly accurate. The majority of self help books are crap filled with generalities.

Interpersonal relations are not an easy subject to tackle, and starting with bad pop psych advice really doesn't improve things. Even many real psych self help books like Schronach (sp?) are fairly hard to follow for the same reasons.
So he's right about the pop psych stuff - most people already know that. He implies that he knows something better, so I want him to put up or shut up.

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post #79 of 121 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 10:00 AM
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Re: Different sex drives

You have several posts about how what several of us are suggesting is wrong. What are you suggesting will work?

Do you have a specific suggestion that is better than leave / cheat / live without sex?

Are you married to a LD person who never wants sex?


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Originally Posted by scientia View Post
Let's talk about the real stuff, okay?



Let's start with this:

1. Negotiate minimum frequency to satisfy both partners. We came up with twice a week. Tuesdays and Friday. A minimum sex frequency was mandatory or I was gone.

2. HD must stop talking about sex, stop asking for sex even on the scheduled sex days. Do not let the LD know that you need sex as much as you need food or water. Even if you told them it would make no sense to them, so stop. It's useless.

3. HD should stop all groping and minimize physical contact outside of scheduled sex days.

4. HD must find something else in his or her life to replace their constant desire for sex and never let the LD know they are unhappy with their sex life.


Let's see, threats, compromise, don't talk about it, and don't admit to a problem. Gosh, why wouldn't that work?
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post #80 of 121 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 10:30 AM
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Re: Different sex drives

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I've noticed that this thread has been really good on detailing problems but not so good on finding any solutions (except more Self-Help Books!).
Gotta agree. I don't read that 'self help' garbage. Never have, never will.
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post #81 of 121 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 11:00 AM
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Re: Different sex drives

How about we address th OP's question rather than get into a "who's the angriest poster" contest?

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post #82 of 121 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 01:34 PM
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Re: Different sex drives

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Originally Posted by Married but Happy View Post
@scientia, you complain a lot about "myth, bias, nonsense," but have yet to offer anything useful. Or, are you as ignorant as you think the rest of us are?
Okay, I'm going to stop being sarcastic. There are solutions. But keep this in mind:
  1. Before you can try anything, you might have to work on figuring out what the problems are. You can't fix what you don't know.
  2. You are an individual. What works for you may not work for someone else.
  3. You may have to try several things before you find what works.
  4. You may find that your understanding of the problem evolves or changes over time. That's fine.
  5. Your solution might also need to change. That's fine too.

So, let's start with my own experience. I have a pretty high sex drive. When I am with a partner with a lower sex drive it's difficult. If my partner doesn't want sex then I feel rejected. If I masturbate then I'm certainly not going to be fantasizing about the person who is rejecting me. So, isolated masturbation adds distance. But the other problem is that I can't maintain any interest if my partner is willing but doesn't really want to. Someone suggested that the higher drive partner should be more selfless and only worry about his partner's pleasure. Yes, I did that too. Sex was really bad. Sure, I could stimulate her to orgasm. But, each time we had sex I had to wait to see what she was willing to do so there was no anticipation at all. And when I did bring her to orgasm it didn't translate to any participation on her part. She was willing to have sex but was completely passive. That doesn't work for me. Now, maybe you aren't like me. Maybe a passive partner is okay with you. That's fine.

But, if it isn't working then I have various suggestions. A number of these would work for the LD partner in place of sex.

What? What? How can you replace sex?

Let's start from the most intimate and work out from there. I suppose most people would be happy with some type of manual stimulation from a partner. However, we've already heard that this is not always satisfactory for the giving partner. So, let's go lower. Would the LD partner be willing to kiss or even to cuddle without kissing while their partner masturbated? Maybe this level is acceptable. But, if not, there are other levels. For example, many would like to hear their partner reading erotic passages from a book. This could be live in the same room, perhaps on the other side of a curtain if necessary, via intercom, or even recorded. The main thing is that there is a connection. One partner acknowledges the other's sexuality and participates even if not directly. It makes a difference. In this case, you would be thinking about your partner so this type of masturbation helps the relationship. Also, with a recording, you can listen to it and masturbate without involving your partner. However, you don't want this in secret. There needs to be some indication that you are doing it. It might be as simple as putting marks on a calendar or something more creative like putting a quarter in a piggy bank or pasting stars in a ledger.

Cuddling and reading erotic material are likely to work regardless of whether the LD partner is male or female. When the woman is LD she might also consider something visual like nude pictures of herself (a mask, dark glasses, or face paint is okay if you are concerned about your face showing). What she should do is print it out and then cut it into smaller pieces, each one big enough to add some interest. That could keep her partner anticipating the next piece while allowing some time between picture taking sessions. Some HD women might be visual also. But this requires an LD partner who isn't completely shy and an HD partner who likes visual stimulation. Just remember that your HD partner can't take the pictures for you. To work effectively, the pictures have to be something they've never seen. Sometimes you can cheat a little. If you can find someone online whose body is close to yours, you can make this person your body double. Big stars have done it for nude scenes so it might work for you too.

Indirect methods can also be bargained for. For example, you might trade a massage for another picture or another recording. This can work because these are infrequent; you aren't taking pictures or making recordings everyday. Also, you aren't bargaining for sex itself. This might also work with commercial erotic material if the LD partner is the one who obtains it and gives it to the HD partner. This one is more problematic since it would likely take a stronger connection than simply handing out porn to a partner. In other words, you need to view your partner as the erotic source rather than as a kind of pimp or madam (which are simply brokers or providers). But, with some variation, who knows, it might work for some.

Some couples can do forking exercises but this doesn't work with everyone. This would mean that the LD partner arouses the HD partner. This could involve kissing, erotic clothing, showing lingerie, partial nudity, massage, showering together, or even something like spanking (if that turns you on). It could involve talking about an upcoming encounter. For example, let's say it's Wednesday but the couple won't actually have sex until Saturday. The LD partner talks about what might happen on Saturday. The difference is that when the HD partner becomes sufficiently aroused they go to another room to masturbate. Again, the LD partner can't be too shy to talk to act or display in ways that arouse. But, some are okay with this because there is no requirement for direct sexual participation.

But my partner reads in a monotone and refuses to take nude pictures or cuddle.

There are other exercises you can do. But again, any given technique may not work with you. Some may be okay with cuddling after masturbation. In this case, the LD partner does not arouse but knows that their partner will be masturbating and is ready to cuddle and be close for awhile after that. This can may provide enough feeling of connection. If you are willing to try different things you might be able to find something that works for you.
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post #83 of 121 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 02:30 PM
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Re: Different sex drives

Quote:
Originally Posted by scientia View Post
Okay, I'm going to stop being sarcastic. There are solutions. But keep this in mind:
  1. Before you can try anything, you might have to work on figuring out what the problems are. You can't fix what you don't know.
  2. You are an individual. What works for you may not work for someone else.
  3. You may have to try several things before you find what works.
  4. You may find that your understanding of the problem evolves or changes over time. That's fine.
  5. Your solution might also need to change. That's fine too.
...
If you are willing to try different things you might be able to find something that works for you.
Thank you for responding. However, I don't see anything remotely acceptable in your options and alternatives that will satisfy a HD partner. None of them would work for me, at least. As is usually the case, you're advocating that the HD must dumb down or suppress their own sexuality to be acceptable to the LD and get any kind of response from the LD. The least I'd find acceptable is a partner with responsive desire that can be stimulated to respond at least 2 or 3 times a week; ideally, I want a partner who has similar drive who initiates at least some of the time. Otherwise, we'd be too incompatible to continue a relationship. Now, I admit that I endured a very LD partner in a sexless marriage for 20 years. I tried all the communication, marriage counseling, affirmation, etc., none of which changed a thing. If I'd known of your suggestions, I'd have studied them - and rejected them out of hand. Eventually, I gave up all hope for change, and divorced her. IMO, divorce or breaking up is the ONLY viable solution to an unsatisfactory sex life - and the sooner the better. There may be other things that override this decision, but that means accepting that you'll have to live with the frustration. My life is much better post-divorce, and I sought and found a partner who matches my drive and range.

Love is an ideal thing; marriage is a real thing; a confusion of the real with the ideal never goes unpunished. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

CELIBACY IS NOT HEREDITARY.
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post #84 of 121 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 06:02 PM
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Re: Different sex drives

Success will vary but none of that works in my case:

My wife is not happy providing manual stimulation except once ever few weeks. To her that *is* sex.

My wife is not interested in being around when I masturbate.

She is not interested in nude pictures of herself.


She is LD. She is not interested in sex, or sexual activity of any sort except very rarely. She believes this to be normal and has no interest in learning otherwise. I think you will find a lot of LDs in this state - they do not want sex and do not believe that "normal" people want much sex.




Quote:
Originally Posted by scientia View Post
Okay, I'm going to stop being sarcastic. There are solutions. But keep this in mind:
  1. Before you can try anything, you might have to work on figuring out what the problems are. You can't fix what you don't know.
  2. You are an individual. What works for you may not work for someone else.
  3. You may have to try several things before you find what works.
  4. You may find that your understanding of the problem evolves or changes over time. That's fine.
  5. Your solution might also need to change. That's fine too.

So, let's start with my own experience. I have a pretty high sex drive. When I am with a partner with a lower sex drive it's difficult. If my partner doesn't want sex then I feel rejected. If I masturbate then I'm certainly not going to be fantasizing about the person who is rejecting me. So, isolated masturbation adds distance. But the other problem is that I can't maintain any interest if my partner is willing but doesn't really want to. Someone suggested that the higher drive partner should be more selfless and only worry about his partner's pleasure. Yes, I did that too. Sex was really bad. Sure, I could stimulate her to orgasm. But, each time we had sex I had to wait to see what she was willing to do so there was no anticipation at all. And when I did bring her to orgasm it didn't translate to any participation on her part. She was willing to have sex but was completely passive. That doesn't work for me. Now, maybe you aren't like me. Maybe a passive partner is okay with you. That's fine.

But, if it isn't working then I have various suggestions. A number of these would work for the LD partner in place of sex.

What? What? How can you replace sex?

Let's start from the most intimate and work out from there. I suppose most people would be happy with some type of manual stimulation from a partner. However, we've already heard that this is not always satisfactory for the giving partner. So, let's go lower. Would the LD partner be willing to kiss or even to cuddle without kissing while their partner masturbated? Maybe this level is acceptable. But, if not, there are other levels. For example, many would like to hear their partner reading erotic passages from a book. This could be live in the same room, perhaps on the other side of a curtain if necessary, via intercom, or even recorded. The main thing is that there is a connection. One partner acknowledges the other's sexuality and participates even if not directly. It makes a difference. In this case, you would be thinking about your partner so this type of masturbation helps the relationship. Also, with a recording, you can listen to it and masturbate without involving your partner. However, you don't want this in secret. There needs to be some indication that you are doing it. It might be as simple as putting marks on a calendar or something more creative like putting a quarter in a piggy bank or pasting stars in a ledger.

Cuddling and reading erotic material are likely to work regardless of whether the LD partner is male or female. When the woman is LD she might also consider something visual like nude pictures of herself (a mask, dark glasses, or face paint is okay if you are concerned about your face showing). What she should do is print it out and then cut it into smaller pieces, each one big enough to add some interest. That could keep her partner anticipating the next piece while allowing some time between picture taking sessions. Some HD women might be visual also. But this requires an LD partner who isn't completely shy and an HD partner who likes visual stimulation. Just remember that your HD partner can't take the pictures for you. To work effectively, the pictures have to be something they've never seen. Sometimes you can cheat a little. If you can find someone online whose body is close to yours, you can make this person your body double. Big stars have done it for nude scenes so it might work for you too.

Indirect methods can also be bargained for. For example, you might trade a massage for another picture or another recording. This can work because these are infrequent; you aren't taking pictures or making recordings everyday. Also, you aren't bargaining for sex itself. This might also work with commercial erotic material if the LD partner is the one who obtains it and gives it to the HD partner. This one is more problematic since it would likely take a stronger connection than simply handing out porn to a partner. In other words, you need to view your partner as the erotic source rather than as a kind of pimp or madam (which are simply brokers or providers). But, with some variation, who knows, it might work for some.

Some couples can do forking exercises but this doesn't work with everyone. This would mean that the LD partner arouses the HD partner. This could involve kissing, erotic clothing, showing lingerie, partial nudity, massage, showering together, or even something like spanking (if that turns you on). It could involve talking about an upcoming encounter. For example, let's say it's Wednesday but the couple won't actually have sex until Saturday. The LD partner talks about what might happen on Saturday. The difference is that when the HD partner becomes sufficiently aroused they go to another room to masturbate. Again, the LD partner can't be too shy to talk to act or display in ways that arouse. But, some are okay with this because there is no requirement for direct sexual participation.

But my partner reads in a monotone and refuses to take nude pictures or cuddle.

There are other exercises you can do. But again, any given technique may not work with you. Some may be okay with cuddling after masturbation. In this case, the LD partner does not arouse but knows that their partner will be masturbating and is ready to cuddle and be close for awhile after that. This can may provide enough feeling of connection. If you are willing to try different things you might be able to find something that works for you.
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post #85 of 121 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 07:13 PM
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Re: Different sex drives

Quote:
Originally Posted by Married but Happy View Post
However, I don't see anything remotely acceptable in your options and alternatives that will satisfy a HD partner.
Really?

Quote:
None of them would work for me, at least.
This sounds more honest. Those specific suggestions may not work for you. But then I wasn't trying to make suggestions specifically for you or about you. To be honest, I don't know what your expectations or limitations are so it would be difficult to try to suggest something for you.

Quote:
As is usually the case, you're advocating that the HD must dumb down or suppress their own sexuality to be acceptable to the LD and get any kind of response from the LD.
No, not really. I think I've already mentioned that my own sex drive is higher than most of the population. Why would I want to dumb down or suppress my sexuality?

Quote:
The least I'd find acceptable is a partner with responsive desire that can be stimulated to respond at least 2 or 3 times a week; ideally, I want a partner who has similar drive who initiates at least some of the time.
That sounds pretty reasonable. And 2 times a week is fairly common. I don't know that I could maintain a relationship with only 2 times a week.

Quote:
If I'd known of your suggestions, I'd have studied them - and rejected them out of hand.
Again, I haven't made any suggestions for you.

Quote:
Eventually, I gave up all hope for change, and divorced her. IMO, divorce or breaking up is the ONLY viable solution to an unsatisfactory sex life - and the sooner the better.
Your opinion is clearly wrong. Divorce isn't the only solution, but it may be the final choice when another solution can't be found.

Quote:
There may be other things that override this decision, but that means accepting that you'll have to live with the frustration.
No, I've never suggested that. If you can't be happy together then why would you stay together?
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post #86 of 121 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 07:22 PM
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Re: Different sex drives

Quote:
Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
Success will vary but none of that works in my case:

My wife is not happy providing manual stimulation except once ever few weeks. To her that *is* sex.

My wife is not interested in being around when I masturbate.

She is not interested in nude pictures of herself.
Yes, I understand that.

Quote:
She is LD. She is not interested in sex, or sexual activity of any sort except very rarely.
I assume that you mean that she wouldn't be interested in doing any erotic reading for you or something like that.

Quote:
She believes this to be normal and has no interest in learning otherwise. I think you will find a lot of LDs in this state - they do not want sex and do not believe that "normal" people want much sex.
Yes, I've already said this.

To start with, I don't know what "rarely" is or what your expectations would be. I also don't know if you would be happy with non-sexual interaction before or after masturbation. Are you saying that she wouldn't be willing to do this and how do you know this?
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post #87 of 121 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 08:21 PM
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Different sex drives

@scientia it amuses me that you criticize most other posters, then proceed with a long winded post describing a variety of sexual things that an LD Person who isn't interested in sex should do. I don't see that ever happening


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post #88 of 121 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 08:40 PM
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Re: Different sex drives

I don't think sex drive and attraction (mental and physical) are necessarily one and the same.

And as simple as we feel this ought to be, it is often complex.

I've attempted several times to summarize aspects of our dynamic and can't seem to in a concise way. It becomes a paradox!

Music belongs in a place with hearts beating and brains dreaming and people falling in love. - J.Buckley
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post #89 of 121 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 01:48 AM
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Re: Different sex drives

Quote:
Originally Posted by scientia View Post
Okay, I'm going to stop being sarcastic. There are solutions. But keep this in mind:
  1. Before you can try anything, you might have to work on figuring out what the problems are. You can't fix what you don't know.
  2. You are an individual. What works for you may not work for someone else.
  3. You may have to try several things before you find what works.
  4. You may find that your understanding of the problem evolves or changes over time. That's fine.
  5. Your solution might also need to change. That's fine too.

So, let's start with my own experience. I have a pretty high sex drive. When I am with a partner with a lower sex drive it's difficult. If my partner doesn't want sex then I feel rejected. If I masturbate then I'm certainly not going to be fantasizing about the person who is rejecting me. So, isolated masturbation adds distance. But the other problem is that I can't maintain any interest if my partner is willing but doesn't really want to. Someone suggested that the higher drive partner should be more selfless and only worry about his partner's pleasure. Yes, I did that too. Sex was really bad. Sure, I could stimulate her to orgasm. But, each time we had sex I had to wait to see what she was willing to do so there was no anticipation at all. And when I did bring her to orgasm it didn't translate to any participation on her part. She was willing to have sex but was completely passive. That doesn't work for me. Now, maybe you aren't like me. Maybe a passive partner is okay with you. That's fine.

But, if it isn't working then I have various suggestions. A number of these would work for the LD partner in place of sex.

What? What? How can you replace sex?

Let's start from the most intimate and work out from there. I suppose most people would be happy with some type of manual stimulation from a partner. However, we've already heard that this is not always satisfactory for the giving partner. So, let's go lower. Would the LD partner be willing to kiss or even to cuddle without kissing while their partner masturbated? Maybe this level is acceptable. But, if not, there are other levels. For example, many would like to hear their partner reading erotic passages from a book. This could be live in the same room, perhaps on the other side of a curtain if necessary, via intercom, or even recorded. The main thing is that there is a connection. One partner acknowledges the other's sexuality and participates even if not directly. It makes a difference. In this case, you would be thinking about your partner so this type of masturbation helps the relationship. Also, with a recording, you can listen to it and masturbate without involving your partner. However, you don't want this in secret. There needs to be some indication that you are doing it. It might be as simple as putting marks on a calendar or something more creative like putting a quarter in a piggy bank or pasting stars in a ledger.

Cuddling and reading erotic material are likely to work regardless of whether the LD partner is male or female. When the woman is LD she might also consider something visual like nude pictures of herself (a mask, dark glasses, or face paint is okay if you are concerned about your face showing). What she should do is print it out and then cut it into smaller pieces, each one big enough to add some interest. That could keep her partner anticipating the next piece while allowing some time between picture taking sessions. Some HD women might be visual also. But this requires an LD partner who isn't completely shy and an HD partner who likes visual stimulation. Just remember that your HD partner can't take the pictures for you. To work effectively, the pictures have to be something they've never seen. Sometimes you can cheat a little. If you can find someone online whose body is close to yours, you can make this person your body double. Big stars have done it for nude scenes so it might work for you too.

Indirect methods can also be bargained for. For example, you might trade a massage for another picture or another recording. This can work because these are infrequent; you aren't taking pictures or making recordings everyday. Also, you aren't bargaining for sex itself. This might also work with commercial erotic material if the LD partner is the one who obtains it and gives it to the HD partner. This one is more problematic since it would likely take a stronger connection than simply handing out porn to a partner. In other words, you need to view your partner as the erotic source rather than as a kind of pimp or madam (which are simply brokers or providers). But, with some variation, who knows, it might work for some.

Some couples can do forking exercises but this doesn't work with everyone. This would mean that the LD partner arouses the HD partner. This could involve kissing, erotic clothing, showing lingerie, partial nudity, massage, showering together, or even something like spanking (if that turns you on). It could involve talking about an upcoming encounter. For example, let's say it's Wednesday but the couple won't actually have sex until Saturday. The LD partner talks about what might happen on Saturday. The difference is that when the HD partner becomes sufficiently aroused they go to another room to masturbate. Again, the LD partner can't be too shy to talk to act or display in ways that arouse. But, some are okay with this because there is no requirement for direct sexual participation.

But my partner reads in a monotone and refuses to take nude pictures or cuddle.

There are other exercises you can do. But again, any given technique may not work with you. Some may be okay with cuddling after masturbation. In this case, the LD partner does not arouse but knows that their partner will be masturbating and is ready to cuddle and be close for awhile after that. This can may provide enough feeling of connection. If you are willing to try different things you might be able to find something that works for you.
I could have bolded a lot more but while you are trying to be helpful it seems you are not familiar with the LD male which is understandable. Sorry but pretty much all your suggestions are unlikely to work with a LD male.
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post #90 of 121 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 07:13 AM
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Re: Different sex drives

Quote:
Originally Posted by Married but Happy View Post
Thank you for responding. However, I don't see anything remotely acceptable in your options and alternatives that will satisfy a HD partner. None of them would work for me, at least. As is usually the case, you're advocating that the HD must dumb down or suppress their own sexuality to be acceptable to the LD and get any kind of response from the LD. The least I'd find acceptable is a partner with responsive desire that can be stimulated to respond at least 2 or 3 times a week; ideally, I want a partner who has similar drive who initiates at least some of the time. Otherwise, we'd be too incompatible to continue a relationship. Now, I admit that I endured a very LD partner in a sexless marriage for 20 years. I tried all the communication, marriage counseling, affirmation, etc., none of which changed a thing. If I'd known of your suggestions, I'd have studied them - and rejected them out of hand. Eventually, I gave up all hope for change, and divorced her. IMO, divorce or breaking up is the ONLY viable solution to an unsatisfactory sex life - and the sooner the better. There may be other things that override this decision, but that means accepting that you'll have to live with the frustration. My life is much better post-divorce, and I sought and found a partner who matches my drive and range.
The bolded is worth highlighting, at least in my case, especially the last part which I think the Responsive Desire person does not understand (i.e. telling your SO that you would be happy having sex 2-3x a week but never make an effort to initiate is a huge turnoff). In many respects it is no different then rejecting your SO, without having to deal with the guilt of actually rejecting them.

Separately, since it was discussed about maybe masturbating while your SO kissed or cuddled you, I really don't get this. It just seems like nothing more then a quick patch to a bigger problem. Plus, if I need to masturbate b/c of lack of sex, I will just do it on my own time. Seems like it would just lead the LD into further belief that they can continue with minimal effort.
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