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post #61 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 12:40 PM Thread Starter
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
But when she was servicing herself she wasn't in the mood for sex, either!

Sometimes I have wanted an orgasm, but I didn't want to achieve it through sex..

So I guess what I'm asking is, why is it so 'wrong' to want an orgasm but not through partnered sex, even if you have a partner?
Like I said, I don't see it wrong necessarily. I see it wrong if it means that the SO shows less interest in having sex with the partner. At a minimum it should be something discussed between both people. Why bother being in a monogamous relationship where the sexual interest your SO directs towards you may be very dependent on whether or not they rather take care of themselves? The answer to that may very well hinge on how much you value sex as part of the relationship.

IMO, if things are going fine with my W in terms of sex and she wants to go solo as need be, I am fine with. If things aren't going fine (which is more often the case) and her solo count is greater then our time together, I view it as a problem (the problem not necessarily being the solo sessions unless that is the reason for the fewer partnered encounters). Now keep in mind, just in my situation, it is not like I want sex every day or multiple times a day but we are only having it 1x a week. I am at the other end, where it is not uncommon we go a month or longer without (until a few days ago we had gone nearly 2 months, but in all fairness a decent amount of that was due to reasonable circumstances).
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post #62 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 12:46 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

The sense that it is a negotiation and that giving ground will just result in more requests is a big problem.

If the HD wants 3x/week and the LD 1/month, then if the LD "agrees" to 1/week, they may feel that they will still be pressured for more. The problem is that the natural affection the HD feels from some increase in sex life may be perceived as "pressure" by the LD.


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The LD may have a predetermined SLA (frequency) and they may be reluctant to go over it because of fear of more sex expectations if they go along. Likewise if they enjoy too much, etc they fear that may trigger higher expectations from their partners.

I am not generalizing but it's something to consider. They come to see intimacy not as an integral part of a marriage but as a vacation or expensive eating out experience of sorts.

Once they're in this mindset it's not easy - often possible - to change their attitude. Culture and FOO play into this as well.
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post #63 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 12:53 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

Nothing wrong with servicing yourself in addition to having sex with a partner.

I think the problem is when it seems that self-service is "replacing" sex with a partner. This gets to the tricky problem that for some people an O is not what is desired, "sex" is what is desired.

To the LD it feels reasonable to take care of themselves, and to have their partner do the same.

To the HD it can feel that sex is being "replaced" by masturbation. That can feel the same as having sex replaced by porn.


Of course we have to be careful about the definition of "sex". A woman might want an orgasm but not PIV. In that case the question is whether her partner would be happy with other mutual sexual activities, or only wants PIV. That will depend on the person.

In general, trying to apply general rules is difficult - there is just so much variation.






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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
But when she was servicing herself she wasn't in the mood for sex, either!

Sometimes I have wanted an orgasm, but I didn't want to achieve it through sex..

So I guess what I'm asking is, why is it so 'wrong' to want an orgasm but not through partnered sex, even if you have a partner?
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post #64 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 02:15 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
But when she was servicing herself she wasn't in the mood for sex, either!

Sometimes I have wanted an orgasm, but I didn't want to achieve it through sex..

So I guess what I'm asking is, why is it so 'wrong' to want an orgasm but not through partnered sex, even if you have a partner?
Ok. I understand this.

I really understand this.

I love orgasms. I love them so much I am probably an addict. I have, at times, masturbated so much in a day that I was sore the next.

Sex with a partner takes far more effort and is far less selfish.

That is really the bottom line. I understand selfish, lazy behavior that gives an easy reward.

It doesn't, however, help in anyway connect me with my wife. Too much and the opposite occurs.

I have learned that pouring my lust and passion into Mrs C bonds us both closer.

I am now of the view, that if she could physically take it, I would never masturbate again unless it was part of our play time.

Realistically though, there just aren't many women, much less in middle age, that can engage in intercourse 3-4 times a day and sometimes more.

She is at a place where she absolutely would do more if she wasn't sore. She genuinely desires it but at most, 2x in a couple hours and she is sore for a while.

Your view isn't bad for single person or someone in an unimportant, or light relationship.
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post #65 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 06:21 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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Originally Posted by uhtred View Post


Of course we have to be careful about the definition of "sex". A woman might want an orgasm but not PIV. In that case the question is whether her partner would be happy with other mutual sexual activities, or only wants PIV. That will depend on the person.

In general, trying to apply general rules is difficult - there is just so much variation.
This is exactly it for me. I masturbate because I can't orgasm through PIV but PIV is the only sexual activity my husband was willing to engage in. I doubt it would have bothered him that I masturbated because he was getting PIV on average 1x daily from me. And considering how often HE masturbated (1-3x daily) he would have been one heck of a hypocrite to be upset that I did.

I had a boyfriend in high school who loved doing mutual oral. I found it highly enjoyable. I think if my husband had been willing to substitute PIV for oral even just once a week I might have been able to maintain my desire for him. But although oral was frequent before we married, I don't think it happened more than once a year after we married.

The road goes ever ever on, down from the door where it began... JRR Tolkien
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post #66 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 07:51 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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So here's a question. If I'm LD with my partner but masturbate frequently, am I truly LD? Or just situationally LD?
It depends. Why do you chose to fly solo instead of have sex?

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post #67 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 08:18 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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It depends. Why do you chose to fly solo instead of have sex?

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Why do you HAVE to choose sex instead of flying solo?

Last edited by EleGirl; 02-28-2017 at 10:56 AM. Reason: changed name on quote as account name changed
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post #68 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 08:44 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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Ok. I understand this.

I really understand this.

I love orgasms. I love them so much I am probably an addict. I have, at times, masturbated so much in a day that I was sore the next.

.
And "addict" is the way a lot of LD's see the HD. Talk about "perception", lol!

In all honesty, even though I have had a bunch of orgasm through oral/PIV (late husband withstanding), I never, ever, EVER felt like if I didn't have sex/orgasms, I would absolutely perish...or just "die"...or be so "miserable" that I couldn't function or...."other" some depressing negative feeling that I would carry with me for who-knows-how-long.


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Sex with a partner takes far more effort and is far less selfish.
Sez WHO?! I'll tell ya Conan...I'm a very "accommodating" "service-oriented" person. I agree that sex takes far more effort, but NOT that it's "less selfish". In fact, I see sex "with ourselves" as LESS selfish than putting the "burden" on our partner.

And while your wife may not want to "connect physically" with you at that moment, do you think that means that she has less love for you? (understanding that we're talking about perceptions on this thread...)


Quote:
Your view isn't bad for single person or someone in an unimportant, or light relationship
Everything I've been posting isn't necessarily *my* view. I have admitted before---and still do---that I'm LEARNING. I have so many questions and what gets me the most is the gross contradictions of so many people who talk about sex.

Trust me when I tell you that the extremes in viewpoints on this forum have really helped me to form my own new "sexual self".

....for the next unexpected "victim" of mine...muahahahahahahah!
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post #69 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 09:21 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

It requires less selfishness to have good sex with a partner because you consider their desires for a good experience that is.

Masturbation is purely self serving and no consideration is needed for another.

I love orgasms but I love a lot of things about life.

I'm passionate and any partner wanting to pursue me knows it.

No deceit going in.

A woman that didn't want to be regularly ravaged and sent to bed bowlegged need not apply! LOL!

I'm not into false advertising so someone who wanted far less sex and more masturbation would have avoided me.

Sex is very bonding. I am personally convinced of the superiority of regular and frequent sexual intercourse, foreplay and oral too please, over self gratification for the health of couples and their interaction on many levels.
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post #70 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 10:13 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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Someone here at TAM once explained this. Try to recall how you feel shortly after having an orgasm. Rested. Relaxed. Satisfied. Calm. Do you feel like you 'need' sex again RIGHT AFTER you've had sex? Probably not.

The LD often feels that way MOST OF THE TIME without having sex. Even if they DO feel a bit 'stressed' from time to time, the idea of sex can make them MORE stressed because it usually isn't what they need. The HD may use sex as a sort of Valium and can't understand WHY *you* (the HD) wants the LD to take Valium too, when the LD doesn't feel 'stressed'.

Personally, if I have a headache, I would go to the medicine chest and pop a couple of Advil. I would NOT expect my partner to pop a few, too. If there was no Advil available, perhaps I'd make myself a cup of tea. Again, I wouldn't expect my partner to drink tea with me.
That's really thought-provoking. But I don't think your analogy is quite right. The HD person isn't expecting the LD person to also take a pill, or also drink the tea. The HD person is treating the LD partner LIKE a pill or tea.

If the LD partner feels like the HD partner wants sex for the relaxing Valium effect, then the LD partner would feel no more loved and cared for than the pill is.

Using sex as a coping tool to deal with stress seems pretty harmful to a partner.

Also, I'm just thinking that the HD/LD divide is a lot like the extrovert/introvert one. Some people recharge with a party and crowds, some people find that hugely stressful and can only do it rarely and for a limited amount of time, preferring to recharge by being alone with a book. An introvert may enjoy the occasional party, but still doesn't want to do it very often.

Now try telling the extrovert they aren't allowed to go out without their partner.
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post #71 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 10:52 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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I was thinking about this yesterday, and a brief conversation I had with my W last night fit in perfectly, so I thought it would be a good topic for conversation.

As an LD (Low Drive/Desire) or HD (High Drive/Desire) person, do you find that your SO (or maybe people in general) have a certain perception about you that may not be accurate?

Probably one of the biggest issues in relationships where there is a drive mismatch, it can be very difficult for each person to understand where the other is coming from (i.e if you have ever only been HD it is not easy to understand how someone who is LD could not want sex all the time, and vice versa). You would hope that the couple would be able to openly communicate to each other, and work on a solution that has them meeting somewhere in the middle, but it seems like (just from reading here) that isn't always the case. Naturally this is not taking into account bait n switches.

I will give a few examples that popped in my head in another post.

When I first met my husband his drive was much higher than my own and his experience vastly outweighed mine. It was intimidating to be honest, but I fell hard and fast (no pun intended) for him. I was quite shy and more reserved sexually and the word "prude" had been used to describe me before. I honestly just accepted that I'm LD and my husband was HD and he would always be frustrated with me. But boyyyyy was I wrong. Once I learned some new tricks and felt reassured by my husband that he's crazy about me, I honestly WORKED HARD on raising my drive. We were so mismatched before, thinking back I can imagine how hard it must have been for him (again no pun intended). But his happiness was important to me. I went from a sexual noob who fumbled her way through it and felt like a fool doing so, to a confident lover who's pretty much his sex slave. Now ten years later we are both HD people and we are intimate pretty much daily (kids and life can interfere) and NOTHING (except other people) is out of bounds.

I firmly believe people can alter their drives AND their likes. Often either one or both of these things can cause marital or LTR turmoil. Look at me, I went from LD my whole adult life with zero interest in anything other than vanilla sex, who though BJ's were "grosse" *prude alert* to a woman with a VERY VERY VERY high drive that LOVES to experiment and cannot get enough of my husband in any way I can have him.

LD's I'm telling you, you are missing out! I know, trust me!

Once that whole drive mismatch is taken care of, tensions lower and you no longer bicker as much, there isn't as much hurt feelings/feelings of neglect or under appreciation, your whole relationship can improve greatly!
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post #72 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 11:56 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
But when she was servicing herself she wasn't in the mood for sex, either!

Sometimes I have wanted an orgasm, but I didn't want to achieve it through sex..

So I guess what I'm asking is, why is it so 'wrong' to want an orgasm but not through partnered sex, even if you have a partner?
It's not that it's wrong. It's perfectly healthy to want to masterbate. For me the issue is when the masterbation happens after it's been a while since sex. I feel rejected and not good enough.

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post #73 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 08:12 AM Thread Starter
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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When I first met my husband his drive was much higher than my own and his experience vastly outweighed mine. It was intimidating to be honest, but I fell hard and fast (no pun intended) for him. I was quite shy and more reserved sexually and the word "prude" had been used to describe me before. I honestly just accepted that I'm LD and my husband was HD and he would always be frustrated with me. But boyyyyy was I wrong. Once I learned some new tricks and felt reassured by my husband that he's crazy about me, I honestly WORKED HARD on raising my drive. We were so mismatched before, thinking back I can imagine how hard it must have been for him (again no pun intended). But his happiness was important to me. I went from a sexual noob who fumbled her way through it and felt like a fool doing so, to a confident lover who's pretty much his sex slave. Now ten years later we are both HD people and we are intimate pretty much daily (kids and life can interfere) and NOTHING (except other people) is out of bounds.

I firmly believe people can alter their drives AND their likes. Often either one or both of these things can cause marital or LTR turmoil. Look at me, I went from LD my whole adult life with zero interest in anything other than vanilla sex, who though BJ's were "grosse" *prude alert* to a woman with a VERY VERY VERY high drive that LOVES to experiment and cannot get enough of my husband in any way I can have him.

LD's I'm telling you, you are missing out! I know, trust me!

Once that whole drive mismatch is taken care of, tensions lower and you no longer bicker as much, there isn't as much hurt feelings/feelings of neglect or under appreciation, your whole relationship can improve greatly!
I definitely agree with your post, probably because in many ways it does relate to my marriage. My W is somewhere in the "lower" drive, but more towards responsive desire (always ready and willing to go ... as long as I am the one making the effort to initiate).

The interesting thing, my W will be the first one to acknowledge how much better our relationship is when we have an active sex life. It is clear she is happier, in a better mood, etc... So this begs the question, if she realizes this, why does she make very little effort to help maintain our sex life (i.e. it is just as likely we go a month or longer without sex as it is us having sex multiple times in a month)? I think in part, it requires work (i.e. between working long hours, raising a young family , etc...). Waiting for the "right time" is not the best approach, especially given our situation (her perception is that, "ok, maybe tomorrow it will work out", and then tomorrow comes and goes, rinse and repeat).

So this got me thinking, and I think this relates more to a couple where they are in an otherwise healthy relationship (aside from a drive mismatch). I actually saw another member here post something similar. I think between an HD person and LD person, there might be a different mindset. The HD person will look for reasons why they should have sex, whereas the LD person will look for reasons why they shouldn't have sex. So in the case of my W, she definitely likes the idea of having more frequent sex, but falls back frequently on the reasons why we can't at that point (i.e. kids, etc...). I am the opposite where I see the challenges we face managing work, family life, etc.. and instead look for ways to work around it (trying to schedule days off when the kids are in school. early morning sex, etc...).

Last edited by EllisRedding; 02-02-2017 at 08:44 AM.
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post #74 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 09:44 AM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

For me, if I go a long time without sex with my wife, the relationship starts to feel distant. We still do things together, but it feels like I'm hanging out with a friend, not a lover. I may enjoy doing things with her, but simply being in her company isn't particularly desirable anymore. I give her hugs and kisses, but its sort of mechanical - done because I feel it is part of a "romantic" relationship, but it doesn't mean much to me.

When sex is frequent, I find I want to spend time with her. I want to put my arms around her, want to see her smile.




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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
And "addict" is the way a lot of LD's see the HD. Talk about "perception", lol!

In all honesty, even though I have had a bunch of orgasm through oral/PIV (late husband withstanding), I never, ever, EVER felt like if I didn't have sex/orgasms, I would absolutely perish...or just "die"...or be so "miserable" that I couldn't function or...."other" some depressing negative feeling that I would carry with me for who-knows-how-long.




Sez WHO?! I'll tell ya Conan...I'm a very "accommodating" "service-oriented" person. I agree that sex takes far more effort, but NOT that it's "less selfish". In fact, I see sex "with ourselves" as LESS selfish than putting the "burden" on our partner.

And while your wife may not want to "connect physically" with you at that moment, do you think that means that she has less love for you? (understanding that we're talking about perceptions on this thread...)




Everything I've been posting isn't necessarily *my* view. I have admitted before---and still do---that I'm LEARNING. I have so many questions and what gets me the most is the gross contradictions of so many people who talk about sex.

Trust me when I tell you that the extremes in viewpoints on this forum have really helped me to form my own new "sexual self".

....for the next unexpected "victim" of mine...muahahahahahahah!
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post #75 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 10:16 AM
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