HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality - Page 6 - Talk About Marriage
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post #76 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 12:25 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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It depends. Why do you chose to fly solo instead of have sex?

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Because my husband was a selfish lover who didn't care if I had an orgasm or not as long as he got his. And I didn't not have sex with him. I simply didn't want it or enjoy it. Most of the time it left me either sexually frustrated or else in pain. So it wasn't a question of flying solo vs having sex. It was a question of having sex for his pleasure and flying solo for my own.

The road goes ever ever on, down from the door where it began... JRR Tolkien

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post #77 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 12:41 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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It requires less selfishness to have good sex with a partner because you consider their desires for a good experience that is.
Absolutely agree

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Masturbation is purely self serving and no consideration is needed for another.
I also agree. In part. Masturbation is self-serving. However... sex can also be self-serving!

Some HD's may approach their spouse for sex. The spouse isn't interested in sex. The HD (not all, but some) THEN ask, "Well, can I get a bj or a handjob instead?" The LD then thinks that (s)he JUST wants the orgasm! If (s)he just wants the orgasm, why can't (s) do it him/herself LIKE *I* JUST DID AN HOUR AGO?! The LD might give you that handjob/blowjob, and in many cases, (s)he is also going to feel used....which would cause the LD to become MORE LD.

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I love orgasms but I love a lot of things about life.
The LD can also love orgasms. Just not as many. Too many and it becomes mundane. I understand that the HD typically thinks, "If you love sex, then why don't you want it MORE OFTEN?" The answer is an answer that *you've* all heard before. Too much (for the LD) and sex becomes routine. It loses it's 'specialness'. I absolutely LOVE sushi, but if I HAD to eat it every day, several times a day, it would quickly lose it's appeal. It would become boring.

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I'm passionate and any partner wanting to pursue me knows it.

No deceit going in.

A woman that didn't want to be regularly ravaged and sent to bed bowlegged need not apply! LOL!

I'm not into false advertising so someone who wanted far less sex and more masturbation would have avoided me.

Sex is very bonding. I am personally convinced of the superiority of regular and frequent sexual intercourse, foreplay and oral too please, over self gratification for the health of couples and their interaction on many levels
The "regular" and "frequent" part is the off-putting part. It almost seems...unnatural.

Badsanta wrote something a few weeks/months ago on another thread that got me thinking. He said something like (I'm paraphrasing here Badsanta, so don't shoot me yet, lol!) that he put his wife 'on notice' that he was going to want to ravage her the following day. But then he added that he wasn't even aroused when he told her that! And, that once he told her that, he became aroused. The first thing I thought was, "'Gee Badsanta. Can you actually schedule your horniness?!" It just seemed unnatural.

Maybe part of the problem is that perception of the LD is that the HD as "always horny", and would rather have the sexual experience NOT because the HD is horny...?
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post #78 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 01:39 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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Nothing wrong with servicing yourself in addition to having sex with a partner.

I think the problem is when it seems that self-service is "replacing" sex with a partner. This gets to the tricky problem that for some people an O is not what is desired, "sex" is what is desired.
Having been and LD, I can absolutely see this to be true. The LD can have sex WITHOUT an orgasm and feel just as 'close' to his or her partner. But can the HD have sex with his or her partner WITHOUT orgasm as well?

To the (some) LD, the HD seems (we're talking about perception here) to be almost on a 'manic' quest for orgasms. They can't seem have sex WITHOUT them. Sex MUST lead to orgasms, otherwise it's not "really" sex.

As an HD, have you ever had sex with your partner WITHOUT an orgasm for either of you?
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post #79 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 02:03 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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Having been and LD, I can absolutely see this to be true. The LD can have sex WITHOUT an orgasm and feel just as 'close' to his or her partner. But can the HD have sex with his or her partner WITHOUT orgasm as well?

To the (some) LD, the HD seems (we're talking about perception here) to be almost on a 'manic' quest for orgasms. They can't seem have sex WITHOUT them. Sex MUST lead to orgasms, otherwise it's not "really" sex.

As an HD, have you ever had sex with your partner WITHOUT an orgasm for either of you?
Maybe, sometimes she may fake .

On rare occasions I've had sex and not orgasm-ed. Generally that would be on the rare round 2. I can't really think of a 1 round session where I didn't, why bother? But I'm not a delayed ejaculator, it doesn't take all that long so again - why bother? If I was and it was going to take some huge time and effort commitment I'd be fine with not from time to time.

On the other hand, there may be several non-naked interactions a day that result in arousal and no orgasm for me - take that into account in your score card When these are >90% of your 'sex life' should it be a surprise when the clothes finally come off and there is a 'manic quest'
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post #80 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 02:59 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
Absolutely agree



I also agree. In part. Masturbation is self-serving. However... sex can also be self-serving!

Some HD's may approach their spouse for sex. The spouse isn't interested in sex. The HD (not all, but some) THEN ask, "Well, can I get a bj or a handjob instead?" The LD then thinks that (s)he JUST wants the orgasm! If (s)he just wants the orgasm, why can't (s) do it him/herself LIKE *I* JUST DID AN HOUR AGO?! The LD might give you that handjob/blowjob, and in many cases, (s)he is also going to feel used....which would cause the LD to become MORE LD.



The LD can also love orgasms. Just not as many. Too many and it becomes mundane. I understand that the HD typically thinks, "If you love sex, then why don't you want it MORE OFTEN?" The answer is an answer that *you've* all heard before. Too much (for the LD) and sex becomes routine. It loses it's 'specialness'. I absolutely LOVE sushi, but if I HAD to eat it every day, several times a day, it would quickly lose it's appeal. It would become boring.



The "regular" and "frequent" part is the off-putting part. It almost seems...unnatural.

Badsanta wrote something a few weeks/months ago on another thread that got me thinking. He said something like (I'm paraphrasing here Badsanta, so don't shoot me yet, lol!) that he put his wife 'on notice' that he was going to want to ravage her the following day. But then he added that he wasn't even aroused when he told her that! And, that once he told her that, he became aroused. The first thing I thought was, "'Gee Badsanta. Can you actually schedule your horniness?!" It just seemed unnatural.

Maybe part of the problem is that perception of the LD is that the HD as "always horny", and would rather have the sexual experience NOT because the HD is horny...?
Definitely very different mindsets working here. I actually never ask for a standalone hand job or BJ.

I never have sex without giving pleasure, orgasms, as well as receiving.

Sexuality is overwhelmingly mental. So I can absolutely determine if I get worked up or not.

Mrs. Conan changed her thought process and became sexually more aggressive, curious, higher drive, etc.

Everyone trains there thoughts whether they realize it or not.

I'm also skilled at seduction. I can get Mrs. Conan hotter than a stovetop a number of ways so that she might not be aroused when I start but after some form of seduction is going on for a while, she will grab me and initiate.

But like I have said in another post, I don't believe in hardwired sexual behavior. The more you think about and practice anything, the better you get at it. Sex builds in desire as well.

I read everyday. I never get tired of it. Same with sex.
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post #81 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 03:10 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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Originally Posted by anonmd View Post
Maybe, sometimes she may fake .

On rare occasions I've had sex and not orgasm-ed. Generally that would be on the rare round 2. I can't really think of a 1 round session where I didn't, why bother? But I'm not a delayed ejaculator, it doesn't take all that long so again - why bother? If I was and it was going to take some huge time and effort commitment I'd be fine with not from time to time.

On the other hand, there may be several non-naked interactions a day that result in arousal and no orgasm for me - take that into account in your score card When these are >90% of your 'sex life' should it be a surprise when the clothes finally come off and there is a 'manic quest'
Faking? Well...in all honesty.. BTDT.

But I'm not talking about faking. I'm talking about the whole physical/psychological 'act' of sex without the goal of an orgasm. Like you've said, "Why bother?"

Because to a number of LD's, sex isn't about orgasm.

My late husband and I had a conversation one time. He said that orgasm wasn't the "goal" but the "result".

I then asked him, "Why don't you stop short of the "result"?"

He had no answer.

The "result" signaled the 'end of sex' for him, no matter how *I* felt...

Can you have sex with your spouse short of the orgasm?

Last edited by Vega; 02-02-2017 at 03:16 PM.
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post #82 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 03:13 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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Originally Posted by ConanHub View Post
Definitely very different mindsets working here. I actually never ask for a standalone hand job or BJ.

I never have sex without giving pleasure, orgasms, as well as receiving.

Sexuality is overwhelmingly mental. So I can absolutely determine if I get worked up or not.

Mrs. Conan changed her thought process and became sexually more aggressive, curious, higher drive, etc.

Everyone trains there thoughts whether they realize it or not.

I'm also skilled at seduction. I can get Mrs. Conan hotter than a stovetop a number of ways so that she might not be aroused when I start but after some form of seduction is going on for a while, she will grab me and initiate.

But like I have said in another post, I don't believe in hardwired sexual behavior. The more you think about and practice anything, the better you get at it. Sex builds in desire as well.

I read everyday. I never get tired of it. Same with sex.
I agree that desire can change. One can 'up' their libido.

But can one 'DOWN' their libido?
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post #83 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 03:21 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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I agree that desire can change. One can 'up' their libido.

But can one 'DOWN' their libido?
Absolutely!

I think everyone probably has a working range that they are currently in.

My high range is several times a day but I can lower that right down to around 2 or 3x a month.

All it takes is me redirecting my thoughts towards other interests and wala!, far lower drive.

Now if I had to, I could lower it even more but it would take work and discipline.

I also think it would not be healthy to lower it past 2-3x a month.
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post #84 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 03:24 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

If sex without orgasm is good for you why don't you do it anytime a partner wants?

If the HD wants it every day, NEVER gets that, mostly gets it once or twice a month - 6.7% 'success rate' - LOL, don't expect him or her to be happy with a non-completion.

If it makes you feel better to deprive your partner of an easily achievable orgasm you could discuss that. I might go along with brief daily no completion sex for 80% of the encounters for instance. But hardly any sex with even fewer orgasms is not going to fly...

Last edited by anonmd; 02-02-2017 at 03:46 PM.
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post #85 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 03:34 PM Thread Starter
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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Originally Posted by ConanHub View Post

I'm also skilled at seduction. I can get Mrs. Conan hotter than a stovetop a number of ways so that she might not be aroused when I start but after some form of seduction is going on for a while, she will grab me and initiate.
Have mercy Conan, I am hot & bothered just from reading this post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega View Post
I agree that desire can change. One can 'up' their libido.

But can one 'DOWN' their libido?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConanHub View Post
Absolutely!

I think everyone probably has a working range that they are currently in.

My high range is several times a day but I can lower that right down to around 2 or 3x a month.

All it takes is me redirecting my thoughts towards other interests and wala!, far lower drive.

Now if I had to, I could lower it even more but it would take work and discipline.

I also think it would not be healthy to lower it past 2-3x a month.
I agree with Conan here. Redirecting thoughts/energy is an "easy" way to down the libido.
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post #86 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 03:41 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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Can you have sex with your spouse short of the orgasm?
If neither of us has orgasm? No, not enjoyable for me.

To me, that is not sex. That is sharing affection. Sharing affection is, to me, different than sex. I am happy to share affection without sex. I gave back rubs and foot rubs often. I take great pleasure in doing so. No orgasms involved. She rarely reciprocates. And it has been decades since it ever lead to sex. So there is no implication when I offer to give her a foot rub that it is a veiled attempt on my part to get her to have sex with me.

But if she started touching my penis and it felt nice and then she stopped prior to my orgasm? To me that would be teasing and cruel and unpleasant. Now, if she did that right before we went out for date night, and we had a wonderful time together, and then we made mad passionate love when we got home, well in that case the touching and teasing prior to the date would be welcome and enjoyable. A taste of things to come, so to speak. But if she touched me and got me hard and then stopped and we didn't have sex for several weeks? No, not fun or enjoyable or welcome in any way.

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can one DOWN their libido?
Yes. I can and did. Could I turn it down without having it impact (negatively) my feelings toward my partner? No.

When you can see it coming, duck!
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post #87 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 04:11 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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Absolutely!

I think everyone probably has a working range that they are currently in.

My high range is several times a day but I can lower that right down to around 2 or 3x a month.

All it takes is me redirecting my thoughts towards other interests and wala!, far lower drive.

Now if I had to, I could lower it even more but it would take work and discipline.

I also think it would not be healthy to lower it past 2-3x a month.
And here is where the LD dilemma is also. Why is there a "range"? Why isn't sex more 'fluid' instead of a "constant'?
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post #88 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 04:14 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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If sex without orgasm is good for you why don't you do it anytime a partner wants?
Because MOST of the time, the partner WANTS the orgasm! The LD feels "used" for the orgasm.

Last edited by Vega; 02-02-2017 at 04:29 PM.
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post #89 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 04:19 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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If neither of us has orgasm? No, not enjoyable for me.

To me, that is not sex. That is sharing affection. Sharing affection is, to me, different than sex. I am happy to share affection without sex. I gave back rubs and foot rubs often. I take great pleasure in doing so. No orgasms involved. She rarely reciprocates. And it has been decades since it ever lead to sex. So there is no implication when I offer to give her a foot rub that it is a veiled attempt on my part to get her to have sex with me.

But if she started touching my penis and it felt nice and then she stopped prior to my orgasm? To me that would be teasing and cruel and unpleasant. Now, if she did that right before we went out for date night, and we had a wonderful time together, and then we made mad passionate love when we got home, well in that case the touching and teasing prior to the date would be welcome and enjoyable. A taste of things to come, so to speak. But if she touched me and got me hard and then stopped and we didn't have sex for several weeks? No, not fun or enjoyable or welcome in any way.



Yes. I can and did. Could I turn it down without having it impact (negatively) my feelings toward my partner? No.
Fair enough. I can see where you're coming from.

But can YOU see where the LD might be coming from?
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post #90 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 04:33 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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Fair enough. I can see where you're coming from.

But can YOU see where the LD might be coming from?
Yes, which is why these days I suggest couples who can't resolve the mismatch within 3 to 6 months save each other much future pain and break up sooner rather than later.

This is not about right or wrong. Both are right for themselves. Both are wrong for the other. The sooner they split, the sooner each / both can find someone more suitable. Hence Hold's Two Rules.

When you can see it coming, duck!
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