HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality - Page 7 - Talk About Marriage
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post #91 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 04:45 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

If I was a therapist, I'd assign my HD/LD patients the following homework:

1. The HD patient needs to eat their favorite food to the point where they are totally nauseated - repeatedly
2. The LD patient needs to go to bed hungry every night for a week knowing their partner is well fed

This - lack of comprehension - of how the other feels - is largely a lack of making a good faith effort to do so.



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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
Absolutely agree



I also agree. In part. Masturbation is self-serving. However... sex can also be self-serving!

Some HD's may approach their spouse for sex. The spouse isn't interested in sex. The HD (not all, but some) THEN ask, "Well, can I get a bj or a handjob instead?" The LD then thinks that (s)he JUST wants the orgasm! If (s)he just wants the orgasm, why can't (s) do it him/herself LIKE *I* JUST DID AN HOUR AGO?! The LD might give you that handjob/blowjob, and in many cases, (s)he is also going to feel used....which would cause the LD to become MORE LD.



The LD can also love orgasms. Just not as many. Too many and it becomes mundane. I understand that the HD typically thinks, "If you love sex, then why don't you want it MORE OFTEN?" The answer is an answer that *you've* all heard before. Too much (for the LD) and sex becomes routine. It loses it's 'specialness'. I absolutely LOVE sushi, but if I HAD to eat it every day, several times a day, it would quickly lose it's appeal. It would become boring.



The "regular" and "frequent" part is the off-putting part. It almost seems...unnatural.

Badsanta wrote something a few weeks/months ago on another thread that got me thinking. He said something like (I'm paraphrasing here Badsanta, so don't shoot me yet, lol!) that he put his wife 'on notice' that he was going to want to ravage her the following day. But then he added that he wasn't even aroused when he told her that! And, that once he told her that, he became aroused. The first thing I thought was, "'Gee Badsanta. Can you actually schedule your horniness?!" It just seemed unnatural.

Maybe part of the problem is that perception of the LD is that the HD as "always horny", and would rather have the sexual experience NOT because the HD is horny...?
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post #92 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 04:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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1. The HD patient needs to eat their favorite food to the point where they are totally nauseated - repeatedly
.
I have been eating some of the same food every day for decades, challenge accepted
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post #93 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 04:53 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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I have been eating some of the same food every day for decades
I've had pretty much the exact same thing for lunch almost every work day for the last 30 years or so.

Top that!
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post #94 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 05:09 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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As an LD (Low Drive/Desire) or HD (High Drive/Desire) person, do you find that your SO (or maybe people in general) have a certain perception about you that may not be accurate?

Perception can be dangerous because people can often by incorrect in their perception about anyone. Remember the old cliché, "perception is reality?" Well it's true!

When I have gone out in public with my wife she will put on an act and take me by the hand as she walks with me down the street. She will even have the audacity to call me "honey" in front of people. Yet, when she is at home she can be the most autocratic, cold unloving woman you would every want to meet.

Now say people see me with a frown on my face as my petite wife walks with me hand in hand down the street. They could very well think I was some lug not wanting to me with his wife, when in reality she's the cold one who is withholding love and sex.
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post #95 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 06:24 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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I definitely agree with your post, probably because in many ways it does relate to my marriage. My W is somewhere in the "lower" drive, but more towards responsive desire (always ready and willing to go ... as long as I am the one making the effort to initiate).

The interesting thing, my W will be the first one to acknowledge how much better our relationship is when we have an active sex life. It is clear she is happier, in a better mood, etc... So this begs the question, if she realizes this, why does she make very little effort to help maintain our sex life (i.e. it is just as likely we go a month or longer without sex as it is us having sex multiple times in a month)? I think in part, it requires work (i.e. between working long hours, raising a young family , etc...). Waiting for the "right time" is not the best approach, especially given our situation (her perception is that, "ok, maybe tomorrow it will work out", and then tomorrow comes and goes, rinse and repeat).

So this got me thinking, and I think this relates more to a couple where they are in an otherwise healthy relationship (aside from a drive mismatch). I actually saw another member here post something similar. I think between an HD person and LD person, there might be a different mindset. The HD person will look for reasons why they should have sex, whereas the LD person will look for reasons why they shouldn't have sex. So in the case of my W, she definitely likes the idea of having more frequent sex, but falls back frequently on the reasons why we can't at that point (i.e. kids, etc...). I am the opposite where I see the challenges we face managing work, family life, etc.. and instead look for ways to work around it (trying to schedule days off when the kids are in school. early morning sex, etc...).
I definitely think LD people see obstacles in finding time for sex, where as everything needs to happen just so in order for it to just occur. But that's just not likely with a full family in tow. For us there is work, a 7 year old, a 1 year old, and I'm a university student as well, not to mention taking care of our home, helping daughter with homework, and the fact that our sons crib is in OUR room. But you know what? We STILL have sex, or oral or whatever at a minimum of 4-5 times a week. Just as our kids, and school, and home, and work are priorities, for us so is sex. With our baby in our room it's been a little more challenging for some of our more expressive acts, but we make it work. There are PLENTY of other places to have some fun hell we are buying a pull out couch JUST for sex until we get the money together to renovate our sons drafty room. We shall not be stopped haha!

But in all seriousness, it's easy to come up with excuses not to have sex. Life is crazy. But dealing with the marital consequences of unfulfilled needs over the long-term will NOT be so easy to rectify. People are creatures of habit, if you get into the habit of not having sex, it will be harder to motivate yourself later when sh#t hits the fan. Yah know?

Everyone can find time to have some sex in there life. If you can find an hour a day for cleaning or social media or browsing or favorite TV shows or movies... Blah blah blah, then I find it hard to believe people can't find time for sex too!

I don't know how you guys and gals do it, gives me lady blue balls just thinking about it. *Shivers*

I've cried Wolf to my parent saying I really need to do some shopping and just want to go without kids fighting for things then just stay home and have an hour or longer session.

By any means necessary right?
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post #96 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 06:25 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
And here is where the LD dilemma is also. Why is there a "range"? Why isn't sex more 'fluid' instead of a "constant'?
Sex is fluid. I'm giving average numbers that give a limited understanding of my reality.

Besides all that, I get a funny read on you.

You are hiding behind the LD label to maybe justify your feelings.

You don't have to do that. Your feelings are important and have little if nothing to do with a LD label.

You were not treated in a compassionate or considerate manner and, I believe, you justifiably feel disrespected and unloved.

I don't believe it is directly related to HD and LD issues.

I know for certain that a woman, regardless of current drive level, that is genuinely, selflessly loved and cherished, will be far more open and comfortable for approach for sex.

Add a skillful and seductive lover to the previous mix and you have a man that you probably won't be LD with.

Maybe not a classification of HD, but I doubt you would even consider yourself LD with him.
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post #97 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 06:33 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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Originally Posted by EllisRedding View Post
I have been eating some of the same food every day for decades, challenge accepted
69, reverse cowgirl, missionary, doggie, umpteen oral combinations, toys, role play, etc...

Food can have different ingredients and recipes just like sex.

Same thing over and over my ass.

Learning to "cook" those "recipes" is definitely fun.
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post #98 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 11:47 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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Sex is fluid. I'm giving average numbers that give a limited understanding of my reality.

Besides all that, I get a funny read on you.

You are hiding behind the LD label to maybe justify your feelings.

You don't have to do that. Your feelings are important and have little if nothing to do with a LD label.

You were not treated in a compassionate or considerate manner and, I believe, you justifiably feel disrespected and unloved.

I don't believe it is directly related to HD and LD issues.

I know for certain that a woman, regardless of current drive level, that is genuinely, selflessly loved and cherished, will be far more open and comfortable for approach for sex.

Add a skillful and seductive lover to the previous mix and you have a man that you probably won't be LD with.

Maybe not a classification of HD, but I doubt you would even consider yourself LD with him.
Right now, I'm ND (No Drive). The last orgasm I had was a few weeks ago. Before that was several months ago. I'm not interested in having sex right now, nor do I want an intimate relationship right now.

In all honesty, I don't consider myself LD OR HD. My "drive" is situational. It's not consistent. Some relationships I've been HD in the beginning and LD toward end. Some I started out at LD and became HD...to become LD to become HD again.

But the difference between *me* and other HD's seems to be about the orgasm. I could want my partner's hands on me daily, several times a day, yet only 'crave' an orgasm occasionally. If I was with a partner and we couldn't have sex for the rest of our lives, I could still be happy with him, provided there was plenty of affection and respect for each other both in bed and out. Hugging, kissing, spooning, caressing, holding, stroking, whether naked or fully clothed. I don't need the orgasm in order to feel passion or immensely close and intimate with a partner. Heck, I could 'bond' with my partner over a game of Parcheesi (played in the buff! ) just as easily as I could 'bond' with him during a roll in the hay. And I want a partner who wants the same thing. One who doesn't constantly focus on the (especially his own) orgasm as the goal of lovemaking. It may be difficult for me to find, but...

I've learned a lot from TAM since I've been here. What I've learned most of all is two things:

#1. I have been settling in my life because I didn't realize that I was "allowed" to want certain things from my relationships. Now I know better AND,

#2. I will no longer settle.

And if that means that I'll be single for the rest of my life, never having sex again, I'm o.k. with that. I would rather be that way then to be in a bad relationship with a man who has NO CLUE about how to play Parcheesi!
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post #99 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 11:55 PM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

My wife feels frustrated if she gets aroused without having an orgasm, so if we start I pretty much always make sure she has one - we use vibrators as part of our play so it pretty much always works.

I have many times offered to do things for her with nothing in return. She has only taken me up on it a couple of times.

I don't see the point of not having an orgasm though - it just seems like a normal and very nice way end active intimacy and switch to cuddling.

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snip

As an HD, have you ever had sex with your partner WITHOUT an orgasm for either of you?
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post #100 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 12:22 AM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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I don't see the point of not having an orgasm though - .
How about the emotional closeness that sex provides?

As a woman, I can have sex without having an orgasm and feel just as satisfied and just as close to my partner. After all, women do this all the time.

But most men don't.

Let me ask you a question, just out of curiosity. If you caught your wife in bed with another man and your wife said, "But neither one of us had orgasms so it really wasn't sex!", and you somehow knew it to be TRUE that they didn't, would you BUY that it wasn't really "sex"?
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post #101 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 01:13 AM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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How about the emotional closeness that sex provides?

As a woman, I can have sex without having an orgasm and feel just as satisfied and just as close to my partner. After all, women do this all the time.

But most men don't.
I can and do have sex without an orgasm often and still love every minute of it. I/we also have lots of cuddling, touching, kissing, etc. None of that has to lead to sex and most times doesn't but sometimes does.

I have met men in my life who aren't so hung up on orgasms, thankfully. I mean, I actually love it when my partner O's, but I love the whole act and the intimacy more....and at our age, sometimes O's just kind of get lost in the shuffle. It gets picked up next time, or whatever, no worries. There's no stress about it, they either happen or not but the sex is always good regardless....because it is passionate, fun, exciting, intimate, and oh so yummy!

Remember the goal of feminism: Making sure only alphas get laid!
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post #102 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 01:39 AM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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I can and do have sex without an orgasm often and still love every minute of it. I/we also have lots of cuddling, touching, kissing, etc. None of that has to lead to sex and most times doesn't but sometimes does.

I have met men in my life who aren't so hung up on orgasms, thankfully. I mean, I actually love it when my partner O's, but I love the whole act and the intimacy more....and at our age, sometimes O's just kind of get lost in the shuffle. It gets picked up next time, or whatever, no worries. There's no stress about it, they either happen or not but the sex is always good regardless....because it is passionate, fun, exciting, intimate, and oh so yummy!

yyyyyyYYYYYYYEEEEESSSSSSSS!

Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about! Focus. Not. Always. On. Orgasms!

Heck, I can give *myself* an orgasm almost anytime I want one. And I DO enjoy it when my partner O's. But for me, it's not the 'goal' of sex. To me, the goal of sex is intimacy.

If my partner can ONLY feel intimacy with me during that 3 second orgasm, and not again until his next orgasm, he's NOT the partner for me!

Thanks again, FW. You ROCK! Whoot! Whoot! Whoot!
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post #103 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 06:56 AM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

I think orgasms are ~50% of sex, personally. When one orgasms, there's a rush of endorphins and other chemicals that increase bonding and provide euphoric feelings, and other sciency hoopla.

That said, I've had sex with my wife before in which I did not orgasm, and it was mutually satisfying. It is still a goal, however - for both of us. However it does not severely impact the level of emotional closeness either one of us achieves if it doesn't happen. I am actually not sure she's ever had sex with me and not orgasmed, though, so she might not be a good example for this. She's one of those lucky (?) women who achieves orgasm quickly and easily and with little effort. It has little, if anything, to do with me.

What I see here, like it or not, are women who view the orgasm as not being the goal. Most, if not all, women have had partners, or at least encounters, in which orgasm appears to be, or outright IS, the goal - for him. Sex for the sake of sex. Women typically want more (not 100% of the time, of course).

Ideally, one would want both. In reality, it's not so, I don't think. If a woman could only choose intimacy OR orgasm, many (most?) would choose intimacy. Men? Orgasm.

That doesn't mean either sex doesn't want both.

Regardless, my point was that many, if not all women have experienced a male partner who seems only focused on orgasm, with minimal (or no) attention to intimacy. Not all men have experienced the same in reverse - a female partner who only wants to get off, our satisfaction be damned. If that happened to me regularly, I, too, would probably feel the same way.

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post #104 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 10:20 AM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

Interesting.
Both my wife and I consider an O to be a normal part of sex. On the rare occasions where she doesn't get one, she feels frustrated. On the more common occasions where I don't, I'm left a little frustrated. I find being very aroused but not getting an orgasm to be unpleasant - so I have to go take care of myself later.

Arousal must be different for you if you can get sexually aroused but not want an O.

Cheating is cheating whether or not someone O's, but then I'm one of the people who considers an O to be a natural part of sex, not really optional.




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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
How about the emotional closeness that sex provides?

As a woman, I can have sex without having an orgasm and feel just as satisfied and just as close to my partner. After all, women do this all the time.

But most men don't.

Let me ask you a question, just out of curiosity. If you caught your wife in bed with another man and your wife said, "But neither one of us had orgasms so it really wasn't sex!", and you somehow knew it to be TRUE that they didn't, would you BUY that it wasn't really "sex"?
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post #105 of 173 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 10:33 AM
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Re: HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality

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Having been and LD, I can absolutely see this to be true. The LD can have sex WITHOUT an orgasm and feel just as 'close' to his or her partner. But can the HD have sex with his or her partner WITHOUT orgasm as well?

To the (some) LD, the HD seems (we're talking about perception here) to be almost on a 'manic' quest for orgasms. They can't seem have sex WITHOUT them. Sex MUST lead to orgasms, otherwise it's not "really" sex.

As an HD, have you ever had sex with your partner WITHOUT an orgasm for either of you?
YES, WE CAN!

My partner and I are both HD. Sometimes I don't orgasm from sex, but I still LOVE the sex. That doesn't happen much with my current partner, I will admit, because he takes a lot of pleasure in making sure that I have not just one, but multiple orgasms. Even if he isn't feeling horny but I am, he will spend sometimes an hour or more on me, just to make sure that I am satisfied.

My partner can't orgasm during sex--or, at least, it is very rare, and it hasn't happened with me yet (we've only been together about 10 months). He's come close a few times, and he's hopeful that it will happen with me eventually. I know he wants it to happen, and I would like that as well, but I don't put any pressure on him to get there. If he wants to orgasm, he has to finish himself off--but I'm always involved in some way. Usually he does a cuddling/masturbation combo, but sometimes I just watch him, or he'll ask that we mutually masturbate, but whatever it is, he wants me there with him, so it's still a shared experience.

This would upset a lot of women. In fact, he says that I handle this reality far better than anyone else he's ever been with. Despite the unusual nature of our sex life, we are both very happy with our sex life, and we get it on as much as possible.

~Happily un-married since December 9, 2013~
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