I've messed up - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 12:38 PM
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Re: I've messed up

Originally Posted by Iamsorry9 View Post

I want her to know that I adore her in every way, even if we don't have sex, but not give her permission to refuse because I know she will.
Did i read this correctly? OP, can you clarify this? The "but not give her permission to refuse because I know she will"? (Cant figure out how to bold words when im on my phone. )
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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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Permission was probably the wrong word to use. I mean I don't want her to take sex away from us completely, but I understand she would probably want to now.
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 12:58 PM
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Re: I've messed up

So you want her to want you but you're ok with pushing sex you know she doesn't want.

How do you suppose that's going to help you achieve your goal?

Are you ok with bullying occasional sex out of her while she holds her breath until you're finished?

Because that's what you're going to have.

You can either part ways or try giving it up for a while so you can try to repair the damage and start over.

Can't you take care of yourself while you rebuild a relationship? Spending your life chasing hurry up and get off of me sex is going to get less and less satisfying. If you find the relationship can't be rebuilt you can part ways.
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 01:00 PM
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Re: I've messed up

Originally Posted by 41362 View Post
If you are who I think you are, then you need some serious counseling. Using emotional blackmail to satisfy your sexual needs isn't really how long term relationships are built.
I also think that I've read your wife's posts, and I don't think that you fully grasp how your behavior has damaged the relationship. You guys need MC, and you need to be open to listening to her without judgement, without making excuses, and without protest. If you broke it, you need to do the hard work to fix it.

Originally Posted by Iamsorry9 View Post
I've apologised months ago and assumed that bcuz she and I had had a bit regularly that she'd forgiven me.
Again, if you are who I think you are, she was acquiescing under duress and in an attempt to keep the peace. If anything, things are probably even worse now.

Originally Posted by Iamsorry9 View Post
Permission was probably the wrong word to use. I mean I don't want her to take sex away from us completely, but I understand she would probably want to now.
You're probably going to have to suck it up that if you want to fix your marriage, sex is going to be off the table for a while. It will only be back on the table when she wants it to be. And that is only going to happen when she feels safe with you, emotionally. You need to own up to your bad behavior and start making up for it. That will take time, and you will have to be patient.

~Happily un-married since December 9, 2013~
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 02:07 PM
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Re: I've messed up

I've been where your wife is so maybe I can give you some perspective.

My STBXH and I were together for 12 years. He insisted on sex EVERY SINGLE DAY - and threatened to cheat or leave me if I didn't give it. Like a fool I gave in instead of calling his bluff (or if it wasn't a bluff - and as it turned out it wasn't - I would have been better off without him) I put up with it. Sex every day. Sometimes multiple times a day. If I was tired. If I was sick. If I was menstruating. He didn't care. The only reprieves I got were when one of us was traveling for work or if I was in the hospital overnight. And as I found out later he was "outsourcing" it during those times. He never cared if I enjoyed it or had orgasms. There were times when he was so rough and I was so sore that I would lay there and cry. Didn't make him stop. I never said no so technically it wasn't marital rape. Felt like it sometimes though.

When I was about 5 months pregnant with our only child, I nearly had a miscarriage. The doctor put me in bed rest with no physical activity including sex. My H didn't care. He started out by telling me to have an abortion. He would rather have given up the baby than give up sex. I refused, so he insisted we just keep having sex. I refused again, and he found himself a girlfriend. I hemorrhaged severely during the baby's birth and almost died. Ended up with some nasty scars from vaginal tearing. Doctor said at least 6 months before even trying to have sex again. Husband walked out when son was 2 months old. That was it. Marriage was over because he couldn't give up sex for a few months even though I had a legitimate medical NEED to withhold it.

How do you think this made me feel? Loved? Wanted? Cherished? Cared for? No. I felt used. I felt abused. I wondered why he married ME - indeed why he married at all - considering all he apparently wanted was a hole to stick it into on a daily basis. My levels of resentment were so high that I didn't even like being around him anymore. I probably would have divorced but he had me so cowed I didn't dare leave. By the time he left, part of me was relieved - no more being treated like a living breathing blow up doll. I sure as hell didn't love him anymore.

Your wife probably feels a lot like I did. If you told her you were willing to get it elsewhere if she didn't put out, she probably felt like nothing more than an easily replaceable toy. Just a hole to stick it in. Not an individual human woman with needs and feelings of her own. She feels hurt, unwanted, disrespected. She feels a TON of resentment. There may be times when she actually hates you although she'd never say it out loud.

How to save the marriage? The fact that she is here as well is a good sign that she's still willing to try - lucky you. You need counseling - MC together to discuss both your feelings, IC on your part to determine WHY you treated her in such a way to begin with. It would be good for you to explore why you needed sex so badly you were willing to hurt her to get it. In my H's case, it turned out he had a sex addiction. I agree with others that you need to take sex off the table for as long as she needs you to do so. Hate to tell you but that could be a really long time - if ever. My H and I tried to reconcile just once, and gave up because I literally couldn't bear having him touch me. Even something as simple as holding hands made me ill. If he had tried to kiss me I truly think I would have puked.

You need to go back to dating her. Romancing her. With no expectation of sex. And it won't be easy with kids in the picture. But I think it's probably your best bet. If it weren't for the kids I would even go so far as recommending separation and wooing her all over again - minus the sex.

And if you think you can't live without sex for as long as she may need you to, you should make her aware of that so you can both decide if you want to start divorce proceedings now. Whatever you do, don't threaten her again. Because if you do, I would advise HER to tell you there's the door don't let it hit you on the way out.

The road goes ever ever on, down from the door where it began... JRR Tolkien
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post #21 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 11:11 PM
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Re: I've messed up

I read your wife's post. Broke my heart. I don't have any advice for you that others haven't already given you, but I will say this : how dare you. How dare you look into the eyes of the woman who brought your children into the world, the woman who ruined her body, gave up her free self, who went through unimaginable pain for herself and YOU, and tell her to put out or your going elsewhere. To MAKE her have sex with you when she was in PHYSICAL pain - that's rape. She may not have said no, but given her choices -sex or you cheat on her- she had ZERO choice to say no. If you were my husband, I could never love you again. What you have done to this woman is DISGUSTING. Go beg for her forgiveness and pray she deems you worthy of her time.
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post #22 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 12:07 AM
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Re: I've messed up

Originally Posted by Iamsorry9 View Post
I have broken the girl I love and I don't know how to fix it.

I have lost my temper and perhaps not handled mu emotuons the right way.
I have a higher sex drive han her, always have. Before children we were more equal this way. We were on the same page. She was a little vixen and she could get my body to feel things I'd never felt with any other.
I during sexual frustration after our first born, have demanded more from her in the worst way possible. She gives it every few weeks but her heart is not in it like it was before I flipped out and at the dissatisfaction with our sex life the way I did.

I said things that hurt her and I know even though I've apologized I know she hasn't forgotten my words or actions.

I want her to know that I adore her in every way, even if we don't have sex, but not give her permission to refuse because I know she will. And I don't blame her after the way I handled it. I've took her offer of sex when I knew she was in pain and not enjoying it. I don't know why I didn't stop her, it had been more than a few weeks since we had a bit.

I feel like I've done so wrong, but I just love her and want her to feel the love I have for her.
I wish I could change my actions. I wish I would have been more gentle in how I approached the situation.

I want her to want me again because she wants to ravage me, not because of stuipid threats I made to go elsewhere if she doesn't.

I want to fix this so bad, it's killing me knowing I've caused her so much pain.

I hope she reads this. I found this site on her phone.
I'm not gonna jump on the YOU SUCK bandwagon...you know you have failed here. You, hopefully, see just how much damage can be caused by hurtful/neglectful/shameful actions. I hop you want to fix this...not because you feel bad...but because you realize SHE feels bad.

Just some food food for thought....If you are fortunate enough to have the love a woman...it is important to know just what that means...what she will endure for you, what she is willing to see in you, what she is willing to sacrifice for you -and the responsibility that all this creates for you...I learned this -not all too long ago (though it seems a lifetime ago) -stuck in a series of sh**-hole countries -wanted -hated-hunted -despised -banned from my home -doubting I would ever see my wife, my children, my family...ever again....and probably, rightfully so. I left my wife alone...to chase treasure and treasure alone....lying to myself that it was all for them. BUT...

I have a woman that loves me -that believed in me when NO ONE would -she fought -begged -pleaded for me...to my utter and complete surprise wanted me even when she knew it all...knew it was probably true. She endured 3 years alone -She saw the man I could be not the nightmare my world created in me - she was ready to sacrifice her citizenship for me....You get it? When you have that ...that woman that SEES you and loves you anyway...Don't make it sooo damn hard...She needs your Love, Your respect, Your Strength, Your Support....give her that....She will give you everything.

I'll get off my soapbox, it's late, and I'm ready to go home. Just stop thinking with your **** and cherish the family you have.

Holes burn deep in your chest,
Raked by machine gun fire.
Screaming soul sent out to die,
Living mandatory suicide.
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post #23 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 12:22 AM
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Re: I've messed up

I do not know your fiancee's story but will jump on the YOU SUCK bandwagon because you really understanding this plus truly empathising with what your fiancee is going through is the key to your problem.

So lets start with you …

First, you are a selfish bully! You insist on having things your way and will bully your fiancee into succumbing to your wishes. How are bullies stopped ? Normally by someone standing up to them and not giving in and hopefully also knocking the sh!t out of them. In your case, neither of this has happened so you will continue to be a selfish bully. Sad but true. Until this is fixed, I am not sure anything else can be.

You are an insensitive dullard! How does one make someone who is insensitive more aware especially if he is also dumb? Normally by addressing the problem as dealing with special needs learning. This may be possible here at TAM but you need special help to educate you as you do not appear to be quick on the uptake. This is evident from the language you use.

You are insecure and weak. You are not confident in your own skin and in your relationship. How does one build one's confidence and security - by being proud of yourself and a good man all round. To do this you need to first address the previous two issues and then go on to understand your fiancee's love language, needs, fears, but most of all her value, strengths, wonderfulness (if thats a word) etc. Really appreciate her for who and what she is and value any scrap of affection she gives you (forget about sex - she is a million miles from that right now probably).

Do you think you could overcome all of the above. If not, then let her go find someone who can truly love her and appreciate her - that in itself would be a great act of love from you and get you on the road to addressing your issues.

I don't suppose you wanted to hear any of the above but its there for you to read, understand, take in and do something about …. or NOT.

If you manage to get through this first part, then we can go onto another section about her.

This is my quest, to follow that star
No matter how hopeless, no matter how far
To fight for the right, without question or pause
To be willing to march into Hell, for a Heavenly cause
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