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post #46 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-08-2017, 05:50 PM
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Re: Normal Sex after Porn Addiction

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Originally Posted by hifromme67 View Post
My husband is a recovering porn addict, is and has been in therapy for a year and has been clean for a year. He has always told me has has NO triggers, etc and we would fight about this all the time. His therapist would tell me it wasn't important for me to know his triggers.

So the other day I sent him a text while I was at work. It wasn't a bad one but it was a bit racy. So that night we fought over something totally different but that came out in the argument. He said "Do you think that was smart of you to send me something like that when you aren't home with me?" So that weighed on me heavily as now I realized that was a trigger. Today we were arguing a bit and I got up to shower to get away. He came to the shower and started talking and I told him that I was really concerned about the text and the text comment. I told him that it concerned me that I could not be sexual with him now as it triggered him and that he couldn't tell the difference between sex with his wife and porn "sex." He said all this time I talked to him about his triggers and now he realizes this may be one. He said he can't talk about it or think about it.

I feel completely cheated and heartbroken. This is something that I was always concerned about. Normal sex will trigger the porn addiction.

Has anyone here dealt with this?
If you both didn't buy into idea that your husband is a "porn addict", perhaps you wouldn't be having such problems.

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Originally Posted by MarriedToTheOne View Post
Well, as the great American spokesman said, "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are NOT entitled to your own facts." (Daniel Patrick Moynihan)

And what you have expressed is a personal opinion, which is not backed up by any current psychological research or clinical studies.

The current DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders -- DSM-5 -- used by psychologists, psychiatrists, and therapists for mental health treatment, to include addiction) does NOT include pornography as an addiction diagnosis. The current DSM-5 does have a new section for "Behavioral Addiction", but only includes "Pathological Gambling" in it at this time. Internet Gaming Disorder is being researched for inclusion within the future DSM. Online pornography viewing is mentioned in the DSM-5 (as far as having potential, if abused, to become a "problematic disorder" (NOT addiction) however even then there is no accepted diagnostic criteria for "problematic pornography disorder" (much less "pornography addiction").

The addition of an addition of "Hypersexual Disorder" (not Addiction) to include a sub-section on "Pornography Disorder" was proposed (by a quite small number of researchers) and debated, however the vast majority of researchers and psychiatrists declined its inclusion citing its failure to meet accepted criteria for meeting qualifications for an addiction, disorder, or having an established diagnostic criteria.

Interestingly, one's degree of religious belief has an extremely strong impact on how THEY define pornography. Note that it is not how the experts define it, but how the individual defines it, with many extremely religious people defining viewing pornography ONE TIME as being "Porn addiction"! This study was conducted just this last year by the prestigious Case Western Reserve University.

Pornography obviously has the ability to negatively effect a relationship however that is based on the involved personalities.

Many couples enjoy watching pornography together as a type of sexual foreplay. In many cases the female also watches pornography (or more frequently reads it... steamy, explicit "romance novels" - such as the immensely popular, best-selling "Fifty Shades of Gray" read mainly by women - are very much indeed pornography - it is NOT just imagery! - though a significant portion of women do watch pornography imagery). Even in cases where only one partner or the other watches (or reads) pornography, it often is not something that the other partner feels threatened by. Especially if the activity is not abused by personality traits.

But this is true of ANY behavioral activity.

The husband who is so involved (for example) with fishing and fishing equipment purchases and fishing club meetings and buying and reading every possible fishing magazine and book, to the point of emotionally stepping away from his wife, is in a behavior activity that IS very definitely problematic to the relationship.

The same would be true of the wife who devotes an inordinate amount of HER time to every possible church activity (and even creates other activities, such as a church women's book club, and church women's crochet and knitting club, etcetera, etcetera - and HAS to be involved in everything on ever occasion!).

In both cases, the activities create an unacceptable distance between the partners and the excessively involved individual is using something else to achieve emotional fulfilment that they should be getting from their partner.... It is a form of EMOTIONAL CHEATING - something that IS recognized by all marital professionals. Lay people tend to think of emotional cheating as strictly involves another person, but it can be one's job, one's outside friends / family, one's hobbies, etcetera.

Obviously if the other partner participates in that activity also to a STRONG degree, then while it may still be a personality dysfunction, at least it is not relationship threatening.

This is NOT a personal opinion, but a well-recognized fact. Someone who looks at abused pornography viewing as such a personality dysfunction is hypocritical if they do not recognize that ANY type of excessive / abused personal behavior is also a personality dysfunction and readily capable of negatively impacting the relationship.

Then there are the REAL (professionally recognized) ADDICTIONS.

Drug Addiction. Alcoholism. Pathological Gambling. Etcetera.

Relationships where one of the partners has such a TRUE addiction are (as any professional expert will attest) are truly "living hell". The various personality trait dysfunctions (though potentially problematic for some relationships) pale in comparison.

In discussions with several psychologists, psychiatrists, therapists, and counselors, they not only talk about the extreme difficulties in treating marital problems that involve real addictions as compared to personality trait dysfunctions, but bristle at the thought of any type of comparison between the two... In fact, it was one of those who gave me the illustrations of fishing and church involvement - when carried to extremes and / or abused - as being no different than that of viewing pornography that is also excessive or abused.

Few reported instances of marital counseling therapy that dealt with that had problems due to pornography viewing - however one who did have such a case also alerted me to the Case Western Reserve study and felt that a current case that she had wasn't due to a situation of that type. Again, ALL were emphatic that recognized REAL addictions were vastly more serious scenarios for successful treatment.

As far as "health", I am not sure what your quote meant by that. If referring to mental health, that has been addressed by the above. Viewing pornography is neither an addiction nor a mental disorder (though it can be a personality trait dysfunction in SOME cases). As far as medical health, I have talked now to several medical doctors and have yet to find one who said that viewing pornography (unless carried to an extreme degree due to being a personality trait dysfunction to the point where, for example, one's sleep suffered for a long time period) created medical health problems. None had ever treated a case where there had been such a degree of excessive behavior of viewing pornography or heard of another doctor who had done so (though one had an insomnia patient from excessive online video gaming and another had an insomnia case from a woman who was involved with excessive online gambling - which the DSM-5 does recognize as an addiction... both cases had the doctors working WITH therapists in treating the underlying cause).

So, aside from your PERSONAL opinion, all / any pornography is NOT an addiction or a problem. It is NOT consuming in every case. It is NOT a problem for every relationship. And it does NOT have to stop to "reinstitute" health (what does that even mean???).

And as a counterpoint, the following ARE recognized Mental Health Disorders (that one sees extremely LITTLE discussion about - which leads me to believe that many people are actually ANTI SEX and not truly concerned with the full range of things that negatively impact on marriages / relationships):

1. Female Sexual Arousal Disorder: This mental health condition is not only recognized by the professional manual DSM-5, but also in prior issues of the DSM.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female...ousal_disorder

2. Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder: Also listed in the DSM. Prior to DSM-5, it was so my listed as HSDD, but as of DSM-5 it is now listed separately as Male HSDD and Female HSDD (readily the more prevalent of the two).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoac...esire_disorder

Note that these ARE recognized Mental Health Disorders - and that (again) the DSM does not (and has not) recognize(d) pornography (whether audio, imagery, or reading - let's not forget the steamy, explicit romance novels loved by so many women) as an addiction or mental health disorder.

So, if you have a personal problem with an individual with a personality dysfunction trait or are personally against pornography of ANY form or are anti sex or fit into the classification of people (*) identified in the Case Western University study, then so be it. That is a problem, but is an individual problem, an anecdotal report, and not evidence of a full spectrum situation where "one size fits all".

So rather than making such emphatic STATEMENTS as implying fact, I would suggest that such comments be prefaced with "Strictly in my opinion... ".

As Mr. Moynihan said:

"You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts."

(BTW, nothing that I have written or quoted is MY opinion. My opinion is my own. I have simply stated facts as reported and recognized by others, by professional experts)

(*) I personally do find it strange that religious people have such a puritanical belief (no pun intended) concerning sex. The Bible is a very sexually themed book (1) and the Song of Songs or Song of Solomon (when read in its original translations before the puritanical re-wording by the Medieval works up to and including the King James Version) is very clearly a story of sexual love between two (apparently pre-marital) lovers. A number of attempts have been made to make it a symbolic story (why so steamy in that case, why not more emotionally romantic rather than sexually romantic?). And of course, all the puritanical re-wording done during the Medieval times (KJV)... I mean, changing the wording of breasts by cling them "fawns" and "does". (2)

(1) Books

The Genesis of Sex
Sex in the Texts
The Earthy Nature of the Bible
God and Sex (Coogan)
The Erotic Word
Sex and the Bible (Ellens)
The Spirituality of Sex
Divine Sex (Thelos)
Sex and God (Ray)
The X-Rated Bible
The Uncensored Bible
Sex Texts from the Bible
Flame of Yahweh
Pregnant Passion
Taboo or Not Taboo
God, Sex, and Women of the Bible
Carnal Israel
Does God Belong in the Bedroom
Sacred Secrets
Yahweh's Wife


Note:
- Kosher Sex
- Kosher Adultery
- Kosher Lust
- Sheets Music (Leman)
- Under the Sheets (Leman)
- Turn Up the Heat (Leman)


(2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_Songs

Books:

The Song of Songs (Bloch) (Lyrical translation from early Hebrew text)
Strong as Death is Love
Embracing the Devine Feminine
Intimacy Ignited
The Book of Romance
Holy Sex: The Way God Intended It
Solomon's Song of Love
Kiss Me Like You Mean It

The above literature references Judaic and Christian books. The same type of literature can be found within pretty much any religion.

So if secular reasoning (logic and professional experts findings) and theistic faith positions can't establish a position that one can accept, then at least realize that your position is based on personal opinion with no factual, historical, or theistic support.

Last edited by Personal; 02-08-2017 at 06:12 PM.
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post #47 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-08-2017, 06:00 PM
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Re: Normal Sex after Porn Addiction

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Is your husband in any treatment?


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No he's not but I guess he needs to be
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post #48 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-08-2017, 07:32 PM
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Re: Normal Sex after Porn Addiction

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Originally Posted by Personal View Post
If you both didn't buy into idea that your husband is a "porn addict", perhaps you wouldn't be having such problems.
@Personal "porn addict" or not, if you are doing something/anything that KNOWINGLY HURTS your spouse and you have serious trouble to stop yourself from continuing to do it, well then what would you like to call that?
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post #49 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-08-2017, 07:42 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Normal Sex after Porn Addiction

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If you both didn't buy into idea that your husband is a "porn addict", perhaps you wouldn't be having such problems.


I'm sorry but he is a recovering porn addict, like it or not. He is not a recovering alcoholic or anything else. It is not like I call him that to his face, I am referring to him here. I'm not aure what the rest of your entire post is about as you are quoting someone.


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post #50 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-08-2017, 07:59 PM
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Re: Normal Sex after Porn Addiction

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@Personal "porn addict" or not, if you are doing something/anything that KNOWINGLY HURTS your spouse and you have serious trouble to stop yourself from continuing to do it, well then what would you like to call that?
Oh I concur it's a problem for them. Especially with the hiding of it, which is certainly toxic to a relationship.

As far as I am aware the research indicates it is an issue of compulsive behaviour rather than addictive behaviour. With high pornography consumption correlating with people who are neurotic, agreeable, conscientiousness and have obsessional checking behaviours.

Funnily enough conscientiousness is lauded by many who who loathe pornography.

That said, if they get over the idea that pornography is an addiction and let it go, they might be better placed to address their problems and get on with each other.

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post #51 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-08-2017, 08:02 PM
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Re: Normal Sex after Porn Addiction

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I'm sorry but he is a recovering porn addict, like it or not. He is not a recovering alcoholic or anything else. It is not like I call him that to his face, I am referring to him here. I'm not aure what the rest of your entire post is about as you are quoting someone.
Pornography addiction isn't a real thing.

It is an issue of compulsive behaviour rather than addiction.
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post #52 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 07:33 AM
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Re: Normal Sex after Porn Addiction

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Pornography addiction isn't a real thing.

It is an issue of compulsive behaviour rather than addiction.
OK, so someone can just drink alcohol "compulsively" and allow it to just destroy their life. ...sounds more like an elaborate form of denial if you ask me!

READ THIS: Overview - Compulsive gambling - Mayo Clinic

Quote:
Compulsive gambling, also called gambling disorder, is the uncontrollable urge to keep gambling despite the toll it takes on your life. Gambling means that you're willing to risk something you value in the hope of getting something of even greater value.

Gambling can stimulate the brain's reward system much like drugs or alcohol can, leading to addiction. If you have a problem with compulsive gambling, you may continually chase bets that lead to losses, hide your behavior, deplete savings, accumulate debt, or even resort to theft or fraud to support your addiction.

Compulsive gambling is a serious condition that can destroy lives. Although treating compulsive gambling can be challenging, many people who struggle with compulsive gambling have found help through professional treatment.
Call it what you will, but that outline of compulsive behavior and it's direct relationship to addiction is from the Mayo Clinic.

Sounds like what the OP is dealing with, and she is correct to view it as an addiction!

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post #53 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 08:28 AM
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He just opened the door to talk to me but please remember I am not a porn star with a plastic body doing freaky things in the shower. After the porn discovery, I always turn away from him and hide my breasts. I don't allow him to look at me naked as I am not comfortable with it now.


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So exactly what does your therapist say about all of this?

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My Story! http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-t...andonment.html
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post #54 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 10:36 AM
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Re: Normal Sex after Porn Addiction

...

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post #55 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Normal Sex after Porn Addiction

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So exactly what does your therapist say about all of this?


If you read about how porn addiction affects the spouse, you will see that this is very common and normal. I just started seeing my therapist a few months ago and right now we are working on my triggers.


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post #56 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 01:25 PM
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Re: Normal Sex after Porn Addiction

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If you read about how porn addiction affects the spouse, you will see that this is very common and normal. I just started seeing my therapist a few months ago and right now we are working on my triggers.
While every person is different and the dynamics of each relationship are different, my wife behaved the same as well. Even today when she gets a shower or something, she wants me out of the room and for me not to see her. Although she is OK with me in the room if there is a reason for me to be there, but she strongly prefers to just have her privacy.

My wife is actually very confident about being nude in front of me when she wants to be, but she is still rather uncomfortable with casual nudity such as me seeing her getting dressed in the morning.

If I had to guess WHY she still behaves that way, it is about setting boundaries and being respectful towards her. There are some times during the day that she can not deal with triggering me to become aroused and/or she just wants her privacy and for me to respect that. I see no problems with that.

When we used to have more problems, I had to do a great deal of work to restore her confidence that was destroyed from me having used porn. This was a very slow process which was likely aided by improving trust, & communication in our marriage.

Don't expect anything to change/improve overnight, and make sure you husband is aware that he has to open up more in order for things to progress, and even with that, that you may need to set some boundaries moving forwards to feel comfortable and respected in the marriage.

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post #57 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 02:37 PM
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Re: Normal Sex after Porn Addiction

I see that you are not comfortable having sex with your husband because he formally looked at porn...but has not for a year and a half

That's an eternity to hold it against him...

Have you considered forgiveness....It will set YOU FREE!!!
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post #58 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 03:02 PM
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Re: Normal Sex after Porn Addiction

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Originally Posted by hifromme67 View Post
If you read about how porn addiction affects the spouse, you will see that this is very common and normal. I just started seeing my therapist a few months ago and right now we are working on my triggers.
This issue has obviously caused you a lot of stress. One thing that might help a tiny bit is that it's very possible that your husband is still physically more attracted to you (his wife in the flesh) than any type of body on a video screen. I have seen my share of porn videos and the only fantasies that really get me going are those involving my wife, despite the fact that she doesn't desire sex often.
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post #59 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Normal Sex after Porn Addiction

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I see that you are not comfortable having sex with your husband because he formally looked at porn...but has not for a year and a half



That's an eternity to hold it against him...



Have you considered forgiveness....It will set YOU FREE!!!


Obviously you know nothing about porn addiction and the long-term damage it causes. Me being uncomfortable with him seeing me naked has nothing to do with holding it against him. Also, forgiveness has absolutely nothing about how it makes me feel. I can forgive him but it is still going to take a very long time for my self-esteen to recover. Please get your facts straight before coming on my post and telling me what I am doing wrong.


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post #60 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 03:50 PM Thread Starter
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Normal Sex after Porn Addiction

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This issue has obviously caused you a lot of stress. One thing that might help a tiny bit is that it's very possible that your husband is still physically more attracted to you (his wife in the flesh) than any type of body on a video screen. I have seen my share of porn videos and the only fantasies that really get me going are those involving my wife, despite the fact that she doesn't desire sex often.


The only thing that does help a bit is that
not once has he ever blamed me for his porn use, compared me to that or a porn star, etc. He has always taken responsibility for his viewing of porn. As a matter of fact, he has always told me he loved how I was and that I didn't need to wear a lot of makeup to be beautiful and looked beautiful when I wake up.

On the flip side, when I think of that, it also reminds me that he was watching someone completely opposite of what I am.


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