So this is the SITUATION - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-08-2017, 05:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: So this is the SITUATION

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Not much to say if you don't answer some of the people's questions. What's your sexual frequency with the wife? We talking once per day, once per week, once per month, etc. etc? When people say they have a high drive, it all becomes relative when you are amongst a diverse group like you find here. I'd hate to bust on your wife if she's giving it up daily right now and you're complaining about not getting it 2-3 times in a day. You make a much more sympathetic character if you are luck to get laid once per month.

So what's the frequency kenneth?
I get lucky if we have sex once or twice a month... Yep it's bad. Bust on my wife?? Watch what you say, karmas not pretty. Kaniff

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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-08-2017, 05:43 PM
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So this is the SITUATION

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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-08-2017, 06:22 PM
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Re: So this is the SITUATION

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I get lucky if we have sex once or twice a month... Yep it's bad. Bust on my wife?? Watch what you say, karmas not pretty. Kaniff
I am going to suggest a little more reading for you.

MW Davis the Sex Starved Marriage. (She also recommends Getting a Life, and explaining your needs, becoming less clingy) It is a good companion book for a man in a Sex Starved Marriage.

Chapman's The 5 Languages of Love. This book is usually found in the religious section of many book stores. That was a surprise because it is not a religious book, but it is used by many church family counseling groups.

What I learned from Chapman, was that my primary love languages were "touch" and "words of affirmation (praise)." My wife's primary love languages were "acts of service" and "quality time."

My wife and I drifted apart As the mother of two young children she was touched out at the end of the day and the last thing she wanted to do was touch me. I didn't feel loved. She also was too tired to really praise me even when I went out of my way to solve problems for her.

Each day as busy as she was she made a homemade hot dinner. That was her primary act of service to say how much she loved me. To me it was just a meal. She felt I didn't love her.

Since I wasn't feeling loved at home, I started working more hours to get promoted and be a better provider, or so I told myself. It was actually to get praise from coworkers and my boss. If I worked late and didn't call her and the dinner burned, she was very angry. It was like she had said I love you in her love language and I had slapped her emotionally. She would sometimes yell at me for being late and ruining dinner. I would try to avoid conflict by leaving the table and watching TV or playing with the kids. That would infuriate her even more as dinner was suppose to be quality time in her mind. I was doubly making her feel unloved.

I thought I was being a good provider and getting yelled at for it. She felt I didn't love her any more. If I touched her to tell her I loved her in my love language she told me I was pawing at her. If I praised her to tell her I loved her in my love language, she told me I was buttering her up to get in her panties. If you say to someone I love you and their actions say they don't want your love, you feel very unloved.

We drifted apart like this for years until we had a pretty classic sex starved marriage. Neither of us realized that almost each day or at least several times a week we reached out in our "love languages" to the other only not to be heard and sometimes to be rebuked.

In your first post, you talked about marriage counseling. I would suggest that, but with a board certified sex therapist. I would also suggest you do some serious reading prior to your first sessions and figure out how you are going to change yourself. You can not expect to change her as only she can change herself. You can show her that change is possible. You can further change the dynamic in your relationship (read MW Davis SSM on the art of the 180), so that she will have to figure out if she can still treat you the same or if she needs to change how she treats you. You many like the changed way she treats you, but if you do, provide lots of positive reinforcement.

It took a long time for me to figure out what I had done to hurt my wife and to change the way I treated her, so she started to feel loved again. It also took about 5 months of therapy with a nationally known sex therapist to heal our relationship. But even as expensive as the ST was, it was far less than we would have spent on two divorce attorneys and that ultimately was where things were headed.

Good luck to you.
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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 08:46 AM
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Re: So this is the SITUATION

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?
LOL, I have no idea. Maybe he didn't get my pun?

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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 09:05 AM
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Re: So this is the SITUATION

So, are you a house husband out in NY?
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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 11:08 AM
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Re: So this is the SITUATION

OP's problem is... genuine sexual desire cannot be negotiated.

Men are told, and believe, women generally like sex.
Men are told, and believe, women marry men they find sexually attractive and sexually desirable
Therefore, if a wife doesn’t like sex, it’s his fault. If sex is not a regular part of the marriage, it’s his fault.
I'm sure OP believes this FALSEHOOD.

Medical issues aside, when a wife constantly makes her husband wait for sex, it's because she isn’t sexually attracted to him. She’ll blame her lack of sexual interest on anything because women who don't find their husband sexually desirable hate being honest about why. So, they create ghosts to chase... if he betters himself, is more romantic, makes more money, goes to marriage counseling, loses weight, attends men’s bible study, etc. his wife’s sexual desire for him will return.

Again, genuine sexual desire cannot be negotiated. It's just happens. Women know within 5 minutes of meeting a guy if she'll have sex with him that day/night. There is no “too busy” or “what will my friends think." There is only her passion and desire and enthusiasm to be naked with him. She will fly across two states, rent a car, drive to an hourly motel, and proceed to have sex with the man she wants.
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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 11:14 AM Thread Starter
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Re: So this is the SITUATION

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So, are you a house husband out in NY?
Not at all. I work full-time and she works full-time.
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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 11:30 AM
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Re: So this is the SITUATION

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Not at all. I work full-time and she works full-time.
How was your sex life prior to moving?
Frequency? Quality? Did she initiate? Did she respond?

How is the quality of your current monthly/bi-monthly romps?
Do you feel she is enthusiastic or "doing it" to keep you quiet?
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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 05:51 AM
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Re: So this is the SITUATION

One thing I'm learning in general about life is that we're responsible for our own happiness but this happiness is mired in the choices we make and dependent on how these choices will affect the people that we love and that those people are a responsibility to us. After all, what's the totality of one's life but with whom we choose to share that life with.
I thought how funny it seems that for me one of the best thing about a marriage that I was looking forward to was the fact that I would be able to have frequent, hot sexy sex and this was expected and approved upon by society. I even mentioned that to my husband which only got me stared at as if it was alien to him thinking that a woman would require that from a marital relationship.
Having this strange imbalance where I needed my husband physical touch and having been constantly rejected caused me to feel strange about my own physical need.
So, I did what most of us do to find a solution, read books, exercise, attempt to give him what I thought he needed. When none of that work, you're only left with yourself and to prevent resentment from festering you learn to forgive and accept where you are in life.
I stopped requiring my husband to fulfill me. Now that our children don't require me as much because they are becoming teenagers, I'm discovering who I am again and this means finding things that I enjoy doing, so find things to fulfill your life. It's not selfish.

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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 12:00 PM
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Re: So this is the SITUATION

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One thing I'm learning in general about life is that we're responsible for our own happiness but this happiness is mired in the choices we make and dependent on how these choices will affect the people that we love and that those people are a responsibility to us. After all, what's the totality of one's life but with whom we choose to share that life with.
I thought how funny it seems that for me one of the best thing about a marriage that I was looking forward to was the fact that I would be able to have frequent, hot sexy sex and this was expected and approved upon by society. I even mentioned that to my husband which only got me stared at as if it was alien to him thinking that a woman would require that from a marital relationship.
Having this strange imbalance where I needed my husband physical touch and having been constantly rejected caused me to feel strange about my own physical need.
So, I did what most of us do to find a solution, read books, exercise, attempt to give him what I thought he needed. When none of that work, you're only left with yourself and to prevent resentment from festering you learn to forgive and accept where you are in life.
I stopped requiring my husband to fulfill me. Now that our children don't require me as much because they are becoming teenagers, I'm discovering who I am again and this means finding things that I enjoy doing, so find things to fulfill your life. It's not selfish.

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Wow Very well said. You have brought yourself to the place that I want to always be at. You have summarized what I (as a man) learned from MW Davis book the Sex Starved Marriage and Glover's No More Mr. Nice guy. It is hard for me to continually remind myself that I am responsible for my own happiness and sexuality. Again. great comment. I hope that the OP listens and thinks deeply about your great advice.

You are so right that while marriage is about two becoming one (for most of us) we still have to struggle not to become codependent (especially when it comes to sex), to not loose our individuality that attracted our spouse to us and that gave us the self-confidence to be willing to share our life with another.

Dr. David Schnarch in his series of books, the Passionate Marriage, the Crucible, and Intimacy & Desire focuses on how two people can grow during their marriage, be true to themselves, self differentiate, self soothe, and negotiate a happy, passionate, sexual marital relationship.

As he points out, marriage is the hardest thing that two people can do, if it is done right. Marriage is not easy and not for the lazy.
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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 12:46 PM
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Re: So this is the SITUATION

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OP's problem is... genuine sexual desire cannot be negotiated.
Praise Rollo! For any man wondering about how his marriage ended up sexless, why his wife doesn't respond (by doling out sex cookies) to all the good things he does, and why his attempts to "alpha up to save the marriage" are going nowhere, I heartily recommended Rollo's recent four part series "The Reconstruction" at therationalmale.com. Warning: it is going to be a brutal read, you are going to feel sick to your stomach, and you will resist its primary message and the logical implications of that. Sit with it for a while, and use it to reflect on your current relationship, your past relationships, the relationships of others, and your place in the world more generally. Be honest with yourself and then see if you start getting a clear idea of how you need to proceed.

Full disclosure: I have spent five years busting my @$$ to improve myself so that my wife will want to **** me again. MMSLP, NMMNG, MRP, the works. I am a hell of a guy, easily the best version of me yet and I'm still improving. My wife still has zero attraction for me and I'm pretty sure she is totally checked out at this point. Given how much time has passed, I am not optimistic that she will check back in. At this point, though, that's her issue, not mine. The problem is, up until very recently, I was doing it all along for her and the relationship. She knew it and could sense in her bones just how desperate I was for her validation. I told myself all the usual BS about how I was a fast train heading down my own track and she was welcome to jump on the Awesomeness Express if she wanted to but it was no biggie to me if she didn't. I was great at talking about how much I had disconnected the emotional hose and how my life was going to be fantastic either with her or without her. I was lying to myself. All along, I was constantly pinging the environment to see how she (and other women, to be honest) responded to me, what her mood was, whether she was starting to be sexually interested in me again, etc. I was putting myself on the effect end of everything that mattered in my life, instead of being the cause of what matters in my own life. That is extremely weak and no woman will feel desire for a weak man who is obviously blustering about how awesome he is while being a needy, insecure little boy just under the surface.

You want to fix your marriage (i.e., your sex life with your wife)? That's the wrong goal. Fix yourself, for yourself. Period. Full stop. Stop wondering about why your wife has no desire for you and just accept that that's how things are. Your current marriage is dead. It's over and you need to say goodbye to it, however hard that is. Your next marriage may end up being with your current wife. It may even be a legal continuation of the marriage you have with her now, but in reality the marriage itself will be entirely separate from the one you've had up until now. However, until you let go of the marriage and make yourself your own mental point of origin, you will have nothing of value to offer your wife or any other woman you would take up with, and women will just see you as someone who wants and needs things from them. Women need a reason to invest in a man and "I need, I want, I deserve" is about as far as you can get from being a reason for her to invest. I am not saying ignore your wife, treat her like garbage, cheat on her, etc. What I mean is, stop being pushed around by your ego and your momentary wants and needs, and start focusing on what you want your life to be about and start building that. Get something really going in that direction and then assess whether you can have a worthwhile relationship with your wife.


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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 03:49 PM
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Re: So this is the SITUATION

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Originally Posted by Stack View Post
OP's problem is... genuine sexual desire cannot be negotiated.

Men are told, and believe, women generally like sex.
Men are told, and believe, women marry men they find sexually attractive and sexually desirable
Therefore, if a wife doesn’t like sex, it’s his fault. If sex is not a regular part of the marriage, it’s his fault.

I'm sure OP believes this FALSEHOOD.

Medical issues aside, when a wife constantly makes her husband wait for sex, it's because she isn’t sexually attracted to him. She’ll blame her lack of sexual interest on anything because women who don't find their husband sexually desirable hate being honest about why. So, they create ghosts to chase... if he betters himself, is more romantic, makes more money, goes to marriage counseling, loses weight, attends men’s bible study, etc. his wife’s sexual desire for him will return.

Again, genuine sexual desire cannot be negotiated. It's just happens. Women know within 5 minutes of meeting a guy if she'll have sex with him that day/night. There is no “too busy” or “what will my friends think." There is only her passion and desire and enthusiasm to be naked with him. She will fly across two states, rent a car, drive to an hourly motel, and proceed to have sex with the man she wants.

Oh yes, agreed.


Women use their sexy bodies and sex to get us guys and to marry them. Once married their true selves come out and that sex is now on the sideline.

A lot of it is bait and switch.

The chase is over after getting married so sex isn't as important.

Then us guys jump through all hoops to try and get our ladies in the mood and its something we're now doing wrong.

Strength and Honor. What we do in life echo's in eternity.
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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 09:00 PM
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Re: So this is the SITUATION

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Oh yes, agreed.


Women use their sexy bodies and sex to get us guys and to marry them. Once married their true selves come out and that sex is now on the sideline.

A lot of it is bait and switch.

The chase is over after getting married so sex isn't as important.

Then us guys jump through all hoops to try and get our ladies in the mood and its something we're now doing wrong.
Some women do this. Not all. Many don't do this at all. Don't let your bitterness over your personal situation cloud your perception of reality. There are just as many wives who are suffering in sexless marriages because their husbands pulled a bait and switch. Men do it, too, just as frequently.

~Happily un-married since December 9, 2013~
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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-14-2017, 03:59 PM
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Re: So this is the SITUATION

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Some women do this. Not all. Many don't do this at all. Don't let your bitterness over your personal situation cloud your perception of reality. There are just as many wives who are suffering in sexless marriages because their husbands pulled a bait and switch. Men do it, too, just as frequently.


I learned (5-6 yrs ago) sex 3x-4x week was not the norm for married couples. I was shocked.
I asked my wife "Why?" and she said, "Because I want to. I like you like that."

We attend a church... ~6000 congregation.
She said if she revealed how often we had sex in her woman's Bible study, our small group or Sunday school, most women wouldn't believe it.
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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-14-2017, 04:04 PM
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Re: So this is the SITUATION

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I learned (5-6 yrs ago) sex 3x-4x week was not the norm for married couples. I was shocked.
I asked my wife "Why?" and she said, "Because I want to. I like you like that."

We attend a church... ~6000 congregation.
She said if she revealed how often we had sex in her woman's Bible study, our small group or Sunday school, most women wouldn't believe it.
I learned that too. A couple of years ago, I was on SIM trying to get advice to improve frequency (and quality) of the sex life. After i gave my numbers, I was told - politely for the most part - to STFU and enjoy what I had. Not bad for 80 years old right? (j/k). We have sex every other day except when she's on her period and then it's normally off limits for the first 5-6 days.
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