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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 11:35 PM Thread Starter
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I understand about being desired by other women. Our solution is far out there but my wife and I agree that if we tried to be monogamous, we would have divorced a long time ago. My wife knew of my reputation for having multiple girlfriends at the same time and that after being cheated on by my ex fiancee, my one attempt at monogamy failed. My wife took the lead and started to ask her visiting girlfriends to join us in bed. At the time I did not know that my wife was fantasizing about women. Eventually we ended up in a 30 year poly triad with her best friend who we both loved.

We also did a little bit of groups sex and wife swapping so that my wife could experience sex with someone other than me since she was a virgin when we married. I involvement in group sex was an eye opener to how many of our neighbors and friends were into it. Mothers of three, scientist and even a doctor living in our development. However, after seeing then divorce one by one we stopped playing with others and stuck to just the three of us. Six years ago we became monogamous and it took a few years to adjust to it.

I had two women at home so that one was always up for sex on any given night and the threesomes were much better than sex with one person. What we normally did was a threesome for some wild sex and then one on one for more quality time and making love. When I was a kid and my aunts and uncles asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up, I said that I wanted to be a playboy. I was into girls in first grade and by the time I was 11, I had to steady girlfriends at the same time and was making our with them. At 14 I had a 17 year old girlfriend who took me to her prom. I was into girls from an early age. Surprisingly enough, I never mentioned group sex or threesomes. It was my wife who accepted an invitation to our first wife swap. It was my wife who asked her girlfriends to join us in bed and it was my wife who set me up with her girlfriend to take off some of the sex load from her.

Sounds crazy. I know because while it was happening it was just my normal life. When we became monogamous it hit me that what we had was amazing but very different than most folk. Another fun fact that I did not realize until just last year is that all four of my relationships since the age of 15 are bisexual and I did not know that at the time we started the relationship. Seems that my poly ways attracted women who also liked women. It is a curse I had to bear.

Seriously though, explore options with your wife. I do not like open relationships because one or both of the spouses usually end up leaving to marry someone else. Just try to find an old and long time married couple in an open relationship. They are as rare as hen's teeth. What we did was stick to friends and others that we knew and were comfortable with. A threesome with ground rules may work. We did some soft swinging which is foreplay with someone else but the main event is with your spouse. That really strokes the ego and yet is in a gray area as far as not being monogamous. I can tell you one thing. Sex with my wife was very intense for weeks after we had sex with others. It was like throwing fuel on the fire. Not for the jealous or insecure though. That will kill a marriage quickly. Our girlfriend got married after living with us for 7 years and found a husband who was OK with her continuing her relationships with us. She split her time between her husband and us. It was good for her because she had a beta husband at home who cleaned the house and made money and she was free to have sex with alpha males. The bet of both worlds. Most never see the other world of marriage that colors outside the lines. Once aware of it we found it every place we moved to and were always surprised at who was into it. I am in a retirement community and they have a wife swap and swingers club here where 60-80 year olds play. Do whatever you and your wife can work out. Start off slowly and carefully. Some are thinking that is terrible but when the other choice is cheating, playing with others with your wife is a better option. Of course you can end up as one of the 50% of married couples who divorce. Most of those who did not agree with our lifestyle are divorced with some more than once or twice. We just celebrated our 44th wedding anniversary so obviously we chose a marriage that worked for us. It does not work for most though and is seen as immoral by many. Yet I am not posting about a cheating wife or husband as so many do online.
I'm not implying negative judgment on that, I just don't know if that's for me. I mean, yes, I want passionate, intense sex, but I want it from the person I'm emotionally bonded to. Sex for the sake of sex becomes shallow and doesn't scratch my itch. It's similar to using my hand to some extent. Sure, I have the physical release but there was no emotional connection. I'm after the emotional with the physical. Now, could I achieve that by adding new partners? Possibly at some point, but knowing my wife it would severely mess with her head eventually. I'm just at such a loss. I have so much to be thankful for in life. People even say they'd kill for my life(especially for my wife's), yet here I sit feeling cheated. I'm not after a pity party. Just maybe venting a bit.
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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 11:44 PM
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Re: Frustrated...

Does your wife feel that she lacks passion? Or is this your interpretation that does not match her's??
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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 11:47 PM
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Re: Frustrated...

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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-18-2017, 12:02 AM Thread Starter
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Does your wife feel that she lacks passion? Or is this your interpretation that does not match her's??
Well, I remember her commenting once about how "no one wants to make love to a dead fish. That's awful" and I wanted to say "that's how you are." So I'd say maybe she's a bit unaware of the extent? That would have been completely unhelpful but she knows and admits she lacks passion. However, there was one period where I was very seriously pushing divorce and suddenly she "found" it. The kissing, grabbing...just passionate sexual movement in general. I'll admit, this has been thrown in her face. She can't tell me she doesn't have it when she demonstrated it repeatedly when she wanted me to stay. It's as if she chooses to use sex as a weapon.
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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-18-2017, 12:15 AM
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Re: Frustrated...

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Well, I remember her commenting once about how "no one wants to make love to a dead fish. That's awful" and I wanted to say "that's how you are." So I'd say maybe she's a bit unaware of the extent? That would have been completely unhelpful but she knows and admits she lacks passion. However, there was one period where I was very seriously pushing divorce and suddenly she "found" it. The kissing, grabbing...just passionate sexual movement in general. I'll admit, this has been thrown in her face. She can't tell me she doesn't have it when she demonstrated it repeatedly when she wanted me to stay. It's as if she chooses to use sex as a weapon.
None of us here know exact what's going on. It could be many things.

I could be that her normal state is passionless. Or it could be that you completely do not understand her and/or look at her through your own critical lens. You need to do some work to figure this out.

Most people who appear to be low drive, are not. The problem is that their spouse and/or the relationship does not inspire passion in them. Add to that, that many women have responsive sex drives. It sounds like your wife might. They respond to their partner's desire for them. It's not something that they can change really. If your wife is like that, your complaining over and over to her that she's not like what you want her to be like is only going to drive her to have even less sex drive.

That's why I suggested the book. I think, from what you have written here, that it's what you need.
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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-18-2017, 12:25 AM Thread Starter
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Well, I remember her commenting once about how "no one wants to make love to a dead fish. That's awful" and I wanted to say "that's how you are." So I'd say maybe she's a bit unaware of the extent? That would have been completely unhelpful but she knows and admits she lacks passion. However, there was one period where I was very seriously pushing divorce and suddenly she "found" it. The kissing, grabbing...just passionate sexual movement in general. I'll admit, this has been thrown in her face. She can't tell me she doesn't have it when she demonstrated it repeatedly when she wanted me to stay. It's as if she chooses to use sex as a weapon.
None of us here know exact what's going on. It could be many things.

I could be that her normal state is passionless. Or it could be that you completely do not understand her and/or look at her through your own critical lens. You need to do some work to figure this out.

Most people who appear to be low drive, are not. The problem is that their spouse and/or the relationship does not inspire passion in them. Add to that, that many women have responsive sex drives. It sounds like your wife might. They respond to their partner's desire for them. It's not something that they can change really. If your wife is like that, your complaining over and over to her that she's not like what you want her to be like is only going to drive her to have even less sex drive.

That's why I suggested the book. I think, from what you have written here, that it's what you need.
I'll check it out. Thanks.
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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-18-2017, 12:31 AM
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Re: Frustrated...

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I'll check it out. Thanks.
There is more that you can do. Since you are here, you are the one who will need to lead the inspiration in your relationship. After all, we cannot suggest anything to your wife.

Let up know how it goes.
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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-18-2017, 02:30 PM
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Re: Frustrated...

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It's as if she chooses to use sex as a weapon.
OK @Rasputin assume this is true and that she is using sex as a weapon and that she has determined that it is the ultimate way to control/punish you.

Think of initiating sex like being an elite member of a bomb squad that must defuse an intricate bomb with "booby" traps. The bomb can be triggered in many unknown ways. The payload is that she releases a lifeless starfish. How do you defuse it?

STEP 1: Designate a safe place to detonate this bomb, generally speaking you anticipate the outcome and emotionally brace yourself to stay in a good mood.

STEP 2: DO NOT allow the lifeless starfish to control or punish you. Instead reverse roles and make it fun by putting some "sprinkles" onto your situation!



...an example might be dressing your wife up in something super sexy!

STEP 3: Have a playful tickle fight (get her smiling, laughing, and moving).

STEP 4: Defend yourself with whip cream hidden under your pillow when she tries to tickle you back!



..OK, you still with me?

STEP 5: (most critical step) Buy some googly eyes and eyebomb your privates, her butt, her boobs and whatever you want!





STEP 6: ENJOY the most freaky sex you could ever imagine!

Cheers,
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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 05:14 PM
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Re: Frustrated...

Of course, one of the problems could be medication - antidepressants or tranquilizers, but there are additional factors that can seriously decrease her sexual drive.

The problem could be that your wife isn’t aroused by the type of sex you both have.

1) Your aren’t doing to her the things what you really want. By example, maybe you deep inside of you want to have rough sex with her, but in reality you act like nice guy and subconsciously she feels it I know, for most men, it is difficult to act roughly to woman he loves (or is in brand new relationships), but if those are your real sexual desires, you should follow them to have great sex.

or

2) You are not doing to her the things that she really likes, but at the same time, she is too shy to tell you what she really wants. By example, maybe you are one of those guys who doesn't do cunnilingus, but she is too shy to ask for it. Or she fantasizes about rough sex, but thinks if she will ask for it, then you will perceive her as a w***e.

All these are the first guesses, but in context of above mentioned point Nr.2, I really invite you to deeply analyze the following two your own phrases - "I 'm very much a loving person and touch is my love language. Closeness. Caring..”…….……… “We've has the tough talk where I laid it out and things improved...briefly. They only improve when I get angry. Waiting until I'm angry is such an awful tactic (and I've told her this)”.

If I understand correctly, you are a nice guy, who loves his wife, who respects her etc. And it seems that your main mistake is that you are trying to be romantic also during sex. But “nice sex” usually is synonym to “boring sex”, because all the romantic things must be before and after sex, not during it. Love & sex are two completely different concepts and energies. Unfortunately, due to the massive brainwashing in our culture, many people use both these concepts together, and then wonder why their sexual life is deeply unsatisfying.

The other thing you could do - is to invite your wife to take real sexual initiative in sex – you can both agree that she can do what she really wants and ask from you everything that really arouses her, but you have to promise her that you won’t condemn none of her desires….
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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 06:38 PM
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Re: Frustrated...

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I am SOOO not into something that feels like rape.
Well, that's good.

I feel like we've tried everything over the course of many years but it's just not improving. I'm at such a loss. She's not choosing this but neither am I. I really don't know what my specific question is other than....help?
What exactly have you both tried? Can she lift weights too? Women actually have more T than estrogen, and strength training will help boost hers. Also, T in women is cumulative, so it will build over time. And, having sex helps increase T as well in women, so maybe try finding out what it would take to get her to twice a week to start?

Call me what you will but I'm honestly concerned about being unfaithful. Telling her this would be incredibly unhelpful for obvious reasons.
Agreed. That wouldn't be cool.

I'm not seeking it out but it's intoxicating to be desired by someone.
By whom? Another woman at the gym? Red flag.....

The situation has arisen in the most unlikely ways and I've always shut it down. I try not to put myself in such a predicament. However, to be desired and then go home to someone who makes you feel like you're hideous....it's painfully frustrating.
If it keeps happening, you haven't shut anything down. You need to remove yourself from the situation entirely where another woman is repeatedly hitting on you. Bring your wife to the gym w you, if it's happening there. Don't go at that time anymore. Find another gym. You're being tempted and need to find a way to stop, as a married man who needs to implement firm boundaries. I'd tell your wife about this too so she understands how important it is that she either joins you at the gym or helps you brainstorm solutions.

I don't get my self-esteem from the acceptance of others, but you have to admit this would mess with your head after a while.
If it's messing with your head, you ARE getting something from the attention.
Any advice is appreciated.

Good for you for asking for advice. Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries, and total openness and honesty with your wife (in a kind, loving way). You two need to brainstorm together and you can only do that by communicating the issue with her, and telling her what you really need.
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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 07:38 PM
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Re: Frustrated...

Hyper stability is the enemy of passion.

Being too present - too predictable etc. while nice - is not appealing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin View Post
I'd consider myself to have an average sex drive. By average, I mean twice a week would be great, normally. However, whenever I'm weightlifting, my T skyrockets. This compounds the misery of my wife having low to no drive. She's tried to fix it and I've tried to take the edge off myself but this has gone on for many years. I appreciate her effort but even without the elevated T levels I was unhappy. It's about once a month, which is better than nothing, but it completely lacks passion and feels forced when it does happen. I am SOOO not into something that feels like rape. She gets off, several times, but it's so void of passion. I feel like we've tried everything over the course of many years but it's just not improving. I'm at such a loss. She's not choosing this but neither am I. I really don't know what my specific question is other than....help?
Call me what you will but I'm honestly concerned about being unfaithful. Telling her this would be incredibly unhelpful for obvious reasons. I'm not seeking it out but it's intoxicating to be desired by someone. The situation has arisen in the most unlikely ways and I've always shut it down. I try not to put myself in such a predicament. However, to be desired and then go home to someone who makes you feel like you're hideous....it's painfully frustrating. I don't get my self-esteem from the acceptance of others, but you have to admit this would mess with your head after a while.
Any advice is appreciated.
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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 08:10 PM
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Re: Frustrated...

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Originally Posted by Rasputin View Post
Well, I remember her commenting once about how "no one wants to make love to a dead fish. That's awful" and I wanted to say "that's how you are." So I'd say maybe she's a bit unaware of the extent? That would have been completely unhelpful but she knows and admits she lacks passion. However, there was one period where I was very seriously pushing divorce and suddenly she "found" it. The kissing, grabbing...just passionate sexual movement in general. I'll admit, this has been thrown in her face. She can't tell me she doesn't have it when she demonstrated it repeatedly when she wanted me to stay. It's as if she chooses to use sex as a weapon.
She may have really had it during that time or she may have been faking it because she thought you would divorce her (and it went away once she felt you wouldn't). Did she say it was real and, if so, why did she say it didn't last? Or does she not discuss it at all?
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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 10:40 AM
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Re: Frustrated...

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I am in a retirement community and they have a wife swap and swingers club here where 60-80 year olds play.
That is just 14 layers of wrong.

And unfortunately for me, there isn't enough brain bleach in my state to now erase this image. Thanks a lot.
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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 10:43 AM
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Re: Frustrated...

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Originally Posted by Rasputin View Post
I'd consider myself to have an average sex drive. By average, I mean twice a week would be great, normally. However, whenever I'm weightlifting, my T skyrockets. This compounds the misery of my wife having low to no drive. She's tried to fix it and I've tried to take the edge off myself but this has gone on for many years. I appreciate her effort but even without the elevated T levels I was unhappy. It's about once a month, which is better than nothing, but it completely lacks passion and feels forced when it does happen. I am SOOO not into something that feels like rape. She gets off, several times, but it's so void of passion. I feel like we've tried everything over the course of many years but it's just not improving. I'm at such a loss. She's not choosing this but neither am I. I really don't know what my specific question is other than....help?
Call me what you will but I'm honestly concerned about being unfaithful. Telling her this would be incredibly unhelpful for obvious reasons. I'm not seeking it out but it's intoxicating to be desired by someone. The situation has arisen in the most unlikely ways and I've always shut it down. I try not to put myself in such a predicament. However, to be desired and then go home to someone who makes you feel like you're hideous....it's painfully frustrating. I don't get my self-esteem from the acceptance of others, but you have to admit this would mess with your head after a while.
Any advice is appreciated.
What was your sexual relationship like at the very beginning?
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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 10:45 AM
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Re: Frustrated...

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Originally Posted by She'sStillGotIt View Post
That is just 14 layers of wrong.

And unfortunately for me, there isn't enough brain bleach in my state to now erase this image. Thanks a lot.
Wait till you get old and are without a partner before you judge.
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