Frustrated... - Talk About Marriage
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 01:14 PM Thread Starter
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Frustrated...

I'd consider myself to have an average sex drive. By average, I mean twice a week would be great, normally. However, whenever I'm weightlifting, my T skyrockets. This compounds the misery of my wife having low to no drive. She's tried to fix it and I've tried to take the edge off myself but this has gone on for many years. I appreciate her effort but even without the elevated T levels I was unhappy. It's about once a month, which is better than nothing, but it completely lacks passion and feels forced when it does happen. I am SOOO not into something that feels like rape. She gets off, several times, but it's so void of passion. I feel like we've tried everything over the course of many years but it's just not improving. I'm at such a loss. She's not choosing this but neither am I. I really don't know what my specific question is other than....help?
Call me what you will but I'm honestly concerned about being unfaithful. Telling her this would be incredibly unhelpful for obvious reasons. I'm not seeking it out but it's intoxicating to be desired by someone. The situation has arisen in the most unlikely ways and I've always shut it down. I try not to put myself in such a predicament. However, to be desired and then go home to someone who makes you feel like you're hideous....it's painfully frustrating. I don't get my self-esteem from the acceptance of others, but you have to admit this would mess with your head after a while.
Any advice is appreciated.
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 01:20 PM
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Re: Frustrated...

Have the tough talk with her. Both of you need to be 100% honest. Get an action plan. Do you plan to live like this forever? What's your time frame? Give yourself a time frame. She needs to see a doctor and get a full check up. She also needs to see a therapist. Once a month is pathetic.

You can fix this. She either gets onboard, you accept it and live an unfulfilling life, or you move on and find someone that wants our d!ck everyday. You control your destiny. I wish you luck.
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 01:21 PM
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Re: Frustrated...

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Originally Posted by Rasputin View Post
Any advice is appreciated.
How does nonsexual intimacy look like in your marriage? Do you and your wife hug, hold hands, give each other back rubs, etc? Or do you avoid this because you know it will lead to desiring her and subsequent rejection of her not being in the mood?
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 01:41 PM Thread Starter
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She needs to see a doctor and get a full check up. .
She's seen a doctor a few times. Hormones are ok, apparently. She did have issues with depression but not for quite a while as far as I know. Regardless during those time and now, nothing is different. We've has the tough talk where I laid it out and things improved...briefly. They only improve when I get angry. Waiting until I'm angry is such an awful tactic(and I've told her this).
My timeline? I would have told you we crossed it years ago. I just refuse to be without my kids. We all know fathers lose out. Even part-time parenting doesn't work for me. My kids are my raison d'etre, my everything. However, being this frustrated and miserable doesn't set a good example for them.
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
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Any advice is appreciated.
How does nonsexual intimacy look like in your marriage? Do you and your wife hug, hold hands, give each other back rubs, etc? Or do you avoid this because you know it will lead to desiring her and subsequent rejection of her not being in the mo
I initiate 99% of the nonsexual intimacy. I'm very much a loving person and touch is my love language. Closeness. Caring. She's so non-intimate that I feel like the nurturing female of the relationship, whether it be with her or the kids. She will at times initiate but it's because I've reminded her that we relate like roommates and I refuse to be married to a roommate.
I continue to do all those things you mentioned.

Last edited by Rasputin; 02-17-2017 at 01:50 PM.
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 01:57 PM
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Re: Frustrated...

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I'd consider myself to have an average sex drive. By average, I mean twice a week would be great, normally. However, whenever I'm weightlifting, my T skyrockets. This compounds the misery of my wife having low to no drive. She's tried to fix it and I've tried to take the edge off myself but this has gone on for many years. I appreciate her effort but even without the elevated T levels I was unhappy. It's about once a month, which is better than nothing, but it completely lacks passion and feels forced when it does happen. I am SOOO not into something that feels like rape. She gets off, several times, but it's so void of passion. I feel like we've tried everything over the course of many years but it's just not improving. I'm at such a loss. She's not choosing this but neither am I. I really don't know what my specific question is other than....help?
Call me what you will but I'm honestly concerned about being unfaithful. Telling her this would be incredibly unhelpful for obvious reasons. I'm not seeking it out but it's intoxicating to be desired by someone. The situation has arisen in the most unlikely ways and I've always shut it down. I try not to put myself in such a predicament. However, to be desired and then go home to someone who makes you feel like you're hideous....it's painfully frustrating. I don't get my self-esteem from the acceptance of others, but you have to admit this would mess with your head after a while.
Any advice is appreciated.
Depression is a libado killer.
It completely kills my drive, I found out that I have to treat the depression first and then my drive comes back.

Your wife perhaps needs to find something to help her depression first and then her drive will return.

Does she go to the gym with you?

Exercise is a great way to help with symptoms, plus you can bond with each other while helping her do weights or something else.

Medications that are used for depression can also affect sex drive, she should discuss that with her doctor though, to see what's the best treatment for her.


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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 02:07 PM Thread Starter
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Your wife perhaps needs to find something to help her depression first and then her drive will return.

Does she go to the gym with you?
She's tried several different meds. All failed to help long term. We relocated to a climate with lots of warmth and sunshine and that helped dramatically.
She does not work out with me. I try but she won't. I've lifted for many years but if I try coaching her she views it as an attack. It's just how she is. Someone else could say what I said verbatim and magically it's gospel. Annoying, but us working out together just doesn't work unless it's her workout, which has been ineffective for her and frustrates her. I do think her body image issues have been a factor in all this. She has even commented that my desire for her has never changed, thick and thin. It's undeniable that I'm attracted to her.
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 02:08 PM
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Re: Frustrated...

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I initiate 99% of the nonsexual intimacy. I'm very much a loving person and touch is my love language. Closeness. Caring. She's so non-intimate that I feel like the nurturing female of the relationship, whether it be with her or the kids. She will at times initiate but it's because I've reminded her that we relate like roommates and I refuse to be married to a roommate.
I continue to do all those things you mentioned.
OK, nonsexual intimacy can be both good and bad. Sometimes people also need personal space in order to decompress and not feel everyone in life trying to cling to them and compete for more attention. So in addition to making sure there is nonsexual intimacy, also make sure that there are appropriate boundaries and respect for her personal space if she needs it.

Let her see you having a good time all on your own, and encourage her to do the same. Then "share" that with one another later during nonsexual intimacy.
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 02:21 PM Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=badsanta;17385714]
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Originally Posted by Rasputin View Post
OK, nonsexual intimacy can be both good and bad. Sometimes people also need personal space in order to decompress and not feel everyone in life trying to cling to them and compete for more attention. So in addition to making sure there is nonsexual intimacy, also make sure that there are appropriate boundaries and respect for her personal space if she needs.
We've been through it. She felt that something like me putting my arms around her was a sexual advance. She has trouble separating the two. In turn, I backed way off. There's very little contact now and things got no better. I go out and do my own thing. I take kids myself to do fun things(always have) without inviting her. Things have not changed. This has all been the culmination of many years. She's made efforts to meet me in the middle but it falls well short and without sincerity.
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 03:49 PM
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Re: Frustrated...

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.....I really don't know what my specific question is other than....help?
Call me what you will but I'm honestly concerned about being unfaithful.

....it's painfully frustrating. I don't get my self-esteem from the acceptance of others, but you have to admit this would mess with your head after a while.
Any advice is appreciated.
OK I am the HD in an HD/LD relationship. With the help of a great sex therapist my wife and I have negotiated a frequency of sex that works for us. I desire sex to feel emotionally close to my wife. I had to learn how to not be clingy or make her feel smothered. I also had to learn to not want to become codependent upon my wife's emotional sexual support/validation.

A really good book that discusses these issues is Glover's No More Mr. Nice Guy. A much different perspective on the same problem can be found in just about any of David Schnarchs books like the Passionate Marriage or the Crucible. Schnarch would say that you haven't self-differentiated and self-soothed sufficiently. Both basically tell you to take responsibility for your own happiness and find other things besides sex with your W that give you the emotional support pleasure you are really craving.

After all, how do celibate monks deal with no sexual outlet. How did you as a teenager deal with no sexual outlet when your T-levels were even higher.

Something that the Sex Therapist who helped save our marriage suggested was that if I needed to have sex and my wife just wasn't into it at the time, to masturbate and ask her to hold me while I did.

Talk to you wife tell her that you want to explore with her ways you can both emotionally bond that don't involve PIV sex that she might feel comfortable with. The point is not to change her, but to find out what she might enjoy (if anything) doing with you that will make you feel good and loved.

Good luck.
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 03:56 PM
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Re: Frustrated...

[quote=Rasputin;17385826]
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Originally Posted by badsanta View Post
....She felt that something like me putting my arms around her was a sexual advance. She has trouble separating the two. In turn, I backed way off. There's very little contact now and things got no better. I go out and do my own thing. I take kids myself to do fun things(always have) without inviting her. Things have not changed. This has all been the culmination of many years. She's made efforts to meet me in the middle but it falls well short and without sincerity.
Danger Will Robinson.....

You understand love languages which should help you understand the following. My love languages are touch and then words of affirmation. At first my wife was clueless about love languages and had no desire to learn them.

I would touch her shoulder or arm to tell her I loved her. She would look at me and say that I was pawing at her to get in her pants. I would tell her what a wonderful job she did teaching our children things or praising her in other ways to express my love for her. She would look at me and tell me to stop "buttering her up" just to get in her pants.

It took a lot, but she now understand that I express my love for her in both her love languages and my native love languages. She has learned that at times I need to have her love expressed to me in my native love languages.

My suggestion is that you talk to her a little bit about love languages (Chapman) and if she doesn't get it, think about the two of you going to a good sex therapist.

Good luck.
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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 04:39 PM
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Re: Frustrated...

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How does nonsexual intimacy look like in your marriage? Do you and your wife hug, hold hands, give each other back rubs, etc? Or do you avoid this because you know it will lead to desiring her and subsequent rejection of her not being in the mood?
Not only non-sexual touching, but non-sexual conversation.

Do you ask her questions about her day and REALLY LISTEN to her? Do you know how she feels (not what she THINKS but what she FEELS) about seeing those sad t.v. commercials about abandoned dogs? Do you TELL her how much you appreciate the things she does for you, without using the word "appreciate"? Are you being SINCERE when you say these things?
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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After all, how do celibate monks deal with no sexual outlet. How did you as a teenager deal with no sexual outlet when your T-levels were even higher.
At 37, I find my T levels are higher now than my teens and twenties. I appreciate the feminine form and female sexuality so much more now. I grew up very religious and have thrown those bonds. I refuse to be celibate in any form.
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
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Not only non-sexual touching, but non-sexual conversation.

Do you ask her questions about her day and REALLY LISTEN to her? Do you know how she feels (not what she THINKS but what she FEELS) about seeing those sad t.v. commercials about abandoned dogs? Do you TELL her how much you appreciate the things she does for you, without using the word "appreciate"? Are you being SINCERE when you say these things?
We talk all the time with her doing the vast majority of the talking. Interesting about not saying the word appreciate. I'll look at how I verbalize my appreciation.
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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 11:07 PM
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Re: Frustrated...

I understand about being desired by other women. Our solution is far out there but my wife and I agree that if we tried to be monogamous, we would have divorced a long time ago. My wife knew of my reputation for having multiple girlfriends at the same time and that after being cheated on by my ex fiancee, my one attempt at monogamy failed. My wife took the lead and started to ask her visiting girlfriends to join us in bed. At the time I did not know that my wife was fantasizing about women. Eventually we ended up in a 30 year poly triad with her best friend who we both loved.

We also did a little bit of groups sex and wife swapping so that my wife could experience sex with someone other than me since she was a virgin when we married. I involvement in group sex was an eye opener to how many of our neighbors and friends were into it. Mothers of three, scientist and even a doctor living in our development. However, after seeing then divorce one by one we stopped playing with others and stuck to just the three of us. Six years ago we became monogamous and it took a few years to adjust to it.

I had two women at home so that one was always up for sex on any given night and the threesomes were much better than sex with one person. What we normally did was a threesome for some wild sex and then one on one for more quality time and making love. When I was a kid and my aunts and uncles asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up, I said that I wanted to be a playboy. I was into girls in first grade and by the time I was 11, I had to steady girlfriends at the same time and was making our with them. At 14 I had a 17 year old girlfriend who took me to her prom. I was into girls from an early age. Surprisingly enough, I never mentioned group sex or threesomes. It was my wife who accepted an invitation to our first wife swap. It was my wife who asked her girlfriends to join us in bed and it was my wife who set me up with her girlfriend to take off some of the sex load from her.

Sounds crazy. I know because while it was happening it was just my normal life. When we became monogamous it hit me that what we had was amazing but very different than most folk. Another fun fact that I did not realize until just last year is that all four of my relationships since the age of 15 are bisexual and I did not know that at the time we started the relationship. Seems that my poly ways attracted women who also liked women. It is a curse I had to bear.

Seriously though, explore options with your wife. I do not like open relationships because one or both of the spouses usually end up leaving to marry someone else. Just try to find an old and long time married couple in an open relationship. They are as rare as hen's teeth. What we did was stick to friends and others that we knew and were comfortable with. A threesome with ground rules may work. We did some soft swinging which is foreplay with someone else but the main event is with your spouse. That really strokes the ego and yet is in a gray area as far as not being monogamous. I can tell you one thing. Sex with my wife was very intense for weeks after we had sex with others. It was like throwing fuel on the fire. Not for the jealous or insecure though. That will kill a marriage quickly. Our girlfriend got married after living with us for 7 years and found a husband who was OK with her continuing her relationships with us. She split her time between her husband and us. It was good for her because she had a beta husband at home who cleaned the house and made money and she was free to have sex with alpha males. The bet of both worlds. Most never see the other world of marriage that colors outside the lines. Once aware of it we found it every place we moved to and were always surprised at who was into it. I am in a retirement community and they have a wife swap and swingers club here where 60-80 year olds play. Do whatever you and your wife can work out. Start off slowly and carefully. Some are thinking that is terrible but when the other choice is cheating, playing with others with your wife is a better option. Of course you can end up as one of the 50% of married couples who divorce. Most of those who did not agree with our lifestyle are divorced with some more than once or twice. We just celebrated our 44th wedding anniversary so obviously we chose a marriage that worked for us. It does not work for most though and is seen as immoral by many. Yet I am not posting about a cheating wife or husband as so many do online.

Many prefer to drown in a pool of their own morality rather than seek the safety of a different morality.
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