Unhappy answers about desire - Talk About Marriage
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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
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Unhappy answers about desire

Summary - wife and I on a date, I mentioned I had a few questions earlier in the week and wife said this was a good time to ask them. The first question I asked was rather tame but I was met with such an uncaring reply that I shut down and gave up. It was a softball question about lack of passion and the aging process.
So later in the week we're alone in a car (by that I mean no kids) and wife wants the rest of the questions.
I sum up courage and go for it, and things are going fine (what I call the "good questions", like, "why are your sensitive parts so sensitive sometimes and not others, and how am I supposed to know this?")
BUT then one reply to one question was, and I'm quoting wife here, "well sex just doesn't matter much to me any more. I can go a day, week or a month and it doesn't bother me, I don't need it."
we have never gone a month (or even a week) without sex, my wife doesn't say no often, but, I'm thinking, she doesn't do it because she has desire, she's doing it out of obligation.
Now I'm depressed, because as a man I feel I should be desirable and if I'm not I'm screwing something up; and I'm pretty sure this forum is going to tell me its my own damn fault.
Sooo, lay it on me people...tell me I'm wrong and where to go from here???
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 12:22 PM
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Re: Unhappy answers about desire

You can't do anything about another person's desire for you, but you can do a lot about your desirability. What can you do to improve how desirable you are? You might also want to read "Mating in Captivity" and MMSLP.
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 01:05 PM
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Re: Unhappy answers about desire

OP, did you guys ever figure out how to make her orgasm from PIV or is that still restricted to masturbation?

Is she still masturbating? If she is, then you have a bigger problem at hand.

Last edited by Keke24; 02-24-2017 at 01:44 PM.
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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 01:22 PM
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Re: Unhappy answers about desire

GS,

This is such a great post.

My desire for sex has dropped along with my T levels. M2 is the same fun, attractive lovable person she always has been. But my desire is a lot lower. Not her fault. At all.

Don't be hard on G2 for being transparent with you. Or she'll stop sharing and that my man is a dangerous situation to be in.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gseries View Post
Summary - wife and I on a date, I mentioned I had a few questions earlier in the week and wife said this was a good time to ask them. The first question I asked was rather tame but I was met with such an uncaring reply that I shut down and gave up. It was a softball question about lack of passion and the aging process.
So later in the week we're alone in a car (by that I mean no kids) and wife wants the rest of the questions.
I sum up courage and go for it, and things are going fine (what I call the "good questions", like, "why are your sensitive parts so sensitive sometimes and not others, and how am I supposed to know this?")
BUT then one reply to one question was, and I'm quoting wife here, "well sex just doesn't matter much to me any more. I can go a day, week or a month and it doesn't bother me, I don't need it."
we have never gone a month (or even a week) without sex, my wife doesn't say no often, but, I'm thinking, she doesn't do it because she has desire, she's doing it out of obligation.
Now I'm depressed, because as a man I feel I should be desirable and if I'm not I'm screwing something up; and I'm pretty sure this forum is going to tell me its my own damn fault.
Sooo, lay it on me people...tell me I'm wrong and where to go from here???
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 01:32 PM
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Re: Unhappy answers about desire

I haven't followed your other threads, but what struck me in her response was that she doesn't need SEX not that she doesn't need YOU. An important distinction.

How old are you both? As women get older and approach menopause, hormone levels can drastically change causing a drop off or increase in desire. If she's in her 40s or older, it's worth a trip to the doctor to find out if that's a factor as hormone therapy can help.


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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 01:33 PM
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Re: Unhappy answers about desire

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Originally Posted by Gseries View Post
and I'm pretty sure this forum is going to tell me its my own damn fault.
I understand that you feel depressed, but the line above is not a very nice thing to say to a group of people that are asking for help. I also think that your assumption is wrong.

If you have kept up your appearance and hygiene, provided your wife with emotional support, done your fair share of household work, and have not been an overly negative person, then your wife should do her part to do her best to maintain a healthy sex life, which includes having a healthy and caring attitude about the topic.

Recently I talked with my wife about seeing a physician about her low libido. I told her that even if nothing helps, I would remember and appreciate that she was willing to do something about it. During a recent trip to the UK, she was able to get a prescription of low-dose testosterone for women (and I didn't pressure her to do it). I don't know if it will help, but I was surprised by her willingness to give it a try.

I do recommend that both you and your wife have your hormone levels and thyroid checked. This issue seems to be a cause of many libido problems later in life. Of course this is only true if other aspects of the marriage are ok.
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 01:35 PM
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Re: Unhappy answers about desire

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Originally Posted by heartbroken50 View Post
I haven't followed your other threads, but what struck me in her response was that she doesn't need SEX not that she doesn't need YOU. An important distinction.

How old are you both? As women get older and approach menopause, hormone levels can drastically change causing a drop off or increase in desire. If she's in her 40s or older, it's worth a trip to the doctor to find out if that's a factor as hormone therapy can help.
As soon as I posted something about hormone levels, your post about this topic pops up.
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 01:41 PM
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Re: Unhappy answers about desire

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it's your fault. I had what I would consider a normal desire level in my 20s and early 30s. Now in my late 40s I have little interest in sex and haven't pretty much since I hit perimenopause about 5 years ago.

I would have her get her thyroid checked though. Mine is low and I still have issues even with medication.
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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Unhappy answers about desire

great responses, and apologies from me for pre-judging (Steve). my account has been locked for a year for password issue.
Ok, in no order,
mid 40s (ok, past mid)
i'm the happy, healthy, fit, out going optimistic one with full time job plus yes i (IMHO) do more than my share of household chores...good father, kids are healthy and happy, etc. literally have a white picket fence.
um, the "O" thing, well, i did learn "how to do it" (vibe);I can't wait to read the other post about "how I know when it happens". but almost never through PIV, I'm thinking that's a rarity.
I hadn't thought of hormone thing...maybe ignoring reality? Not sure I could suggest that. Might get clocked :-) how does one bring that up?
her periods are not regular, funny thing is, I know it after 20+ years, i don't need a calendar.
I shouldn't request a continuation of the conversation right? That will just make her less apt to talk.
Last - on a positive note, I did wake up to an earthquake the other night (I mean her solo). Must have some desire. I kept quiet and pretended to sleep.
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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 02:45 PM
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Re: Unhappy answers about desire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gseries View Post
Summary - wife and I on a date, I mentioned I had a few questions earlier in the week and wife said this was a good time to ask them. The first question I asked was rather tame but I was met with such an uncaring reply that I shut down and gave up. It was a softball question about lack of passion and the aging process.
So later in the week we're alone in a car (by that I mean no kids) and wife wants the rest of the questions.
I sum up courage and go for it, and things are going fine (what I call the "good questions", like, "why are your sensitive parts so sensitive sometimes and not others, and how am I supposed to know this?")
BUT then one reply to one question was, and I'm quoting wife here, "well sex just doesn't matter much to me any more. I can go a day, week or a month and it doesn't bother me, I don't need it."
we have never gone a month (or even a week) without sex, my wife doesn't say no often, but, I'm thinking, she doesn't do it because she has desire, she's doing it out of obligation.
Now I'm depressed, because as a man I feel I should be desirable and if I'm not I'm screwing something up; and I'm pretty sure this forum is going to tell me its my own damn fault.
Sooo, lay it on me people...tell me I'm wrong and where to go from here???
You are not wrong.

Where you go from here depends on the answer to the question "Why do I want to have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with me?" I spent a long time chasing after my wife who was completely disinterested in sex or anything sexual. She'd have sex with me, but like yours it wasn't because she actually wanted to. At some point I realized that the entire arrangement is kind of gross. It made me feel bad about myself when we'd have sex, because I knew it was only for me. Once that sunk in, it put me off sex with her.

Darling it's better down where it's wetter, take it from me! --- Sebastian
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 03:17 PM
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Re: Unhappy answers about desire

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Originally Posted by Gseries View Post
....., "well sex just doesn't matter much to me any more. I can go a day, week or a month and it doesn't bother me, I don't need it."
we have never gone a month (or even a week) without sex, my wife doesn't say no often, but, I'm thinking, she doesn't do it because she has desire, she's doing it out of obligation.

Now I'm depressed, because as a man I feel I should be desirable and if I'm not I'm screwing something up; .....
I am an HD man and my wife is an LD we are both in our late 60's. For a while we had a classic Sex Starved Marriage. Though introspection, some great books, changing myself and then seeking help from a Sex Theapist the two of us have reconnected and saved our marriage.

First of all, most people really don't have a clue as to what life in an HD/LD marriage is like. I would say that was one of the hardest things for me to wrap my head around, but I think I am there now.

David Schnarch in his Book the Passionate Marriage and the Crucible likes to point out that everything in marriage is about reaching a compromise between an LD and HD partner. One partner may be HD when it comes to watching professional football on TV. Another partner may be HD when it comes to watching murder mysteries on TV, One partner may be HD when it comes to chocolate ice cream for dessert. Same with sex.

There is no "right amount" of chocolate ice cream for dessert. For some the urge for chocolate might be overwhelming and they may "need" it 3 times a day, at lunch, at a ice cream shop on the way home and after dinner. Their spouse may prefer vanilla ice cream once a month and just politely play with the chocolate ice cream served up in a small bowl after each dinner. It doesn't matter if chopped nuts, whipped cream, or sprinkles are added to the chocolate ice cream. Are they a bad spouse for not craving chocolate ice cream as much as their spouse? No, they as a couple just need to figure out how they can make each other happy and reach a reasonable compromise they can both live with.

I have been in bed with my wife playing and kissing and she has stopped looked at me and told me to not touch her down there, because if I do, she will want to have sex and she doesn't want to have sex that night or morning. That is LD looking you straight in the eyes. My wife when aroused likes and enjoys sex. However, she doesn't want sex as much as I want sex. That is never going to change. In fact sex is far lower on her priorities of things she would rather do. It is not about sex with me as sex in general.

The sex therapist who helped save our marriage helped us negotiate a frequency of sex that we can both live with and will keep us emotionally close. It is twice a week. The sex therapist helped me understand that my wife really does love me and really wants to stay married to me, she just doesn't want sex as much as I do. My wife has a stressful job and sometimes that just kills her desire for sex. Again, that has nothing to do with her desire for me, or her love for me. For a long time she felt like a sexual failure or a broken defective person for not wanting sex as much as I did. The sex therapist helped her understand she is not defective or broken, she just has a different level of desire for sex than her husband. Being married to an LD partner is a challenge. It doesn't mean that she doesn't love me or desire me. It just means that her sexual needs and priorities are different than mine. She is not broken, and I love her for who she is.

Some nights she is not really in the mood and yet she knows that I really would like to have sex. On some of those nights she will give me the gift of her body. She enjoys knowing that she can pleasure me and she enjoys how much I enjoy sex with her and how emotionally close it makes me feel to her. I had to learn how to lovingly accept her special gifts when she gave them to me.

I have learned that even if I gave her a bubble bath, massaged her back and feet for hours, been extremely romantic, that all those replayed mental work meetings repeating in her head would not get her in the mood for sex. On those nights we can either play in some other way or we can have the sexual connection with her that I emotionally need. Some times we will put it off for another night. Sometimes after a stressful week, she will just pull me onto her and tell me to take her and she will enjoy what her body is capable of doing for me.. Again, when she does that it is not something I view as her giving into duty sex. I view it as her enjoying providing me with a special treat and feeling good about it.

I think you need to talk to her and see if maybe your perspective isn't the problem.

Good luck.
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 04:47 PM
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Re: Unhappy answers about desire

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I shouldn't request a continuation of the conversation right? That will just make her less apt to talk.
This is going to understandably be on your mind until it is addressed. You're obviously uncomfortable to request your wife to have a serious talk with you. However, if your wife is too impatient to listen to you talk about this, you need to take a step back and take a look at whether your wife really even cares about you. One key is though how you approach the topic with your wife. If you approach her with with a calmness and the belief that you are not wrong to deal with this issue, she might be more receptive.

I would specifically advise that you don't ask her any more questions when you talk next. Instead tell her that a healthy sexual relationship is very important to you and that you want to have a wonderful sexual relationship again with her. Perhaps tell her, as I told my wife, that one possibility is that her hormone levels are dropping because it is common for women in their 40's and beyond. And let her know that if it doesn't help her libido, you will still have an appreciation that she was willing to try.
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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 08:59 AM
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Re: Unhappy answers about desire

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i am an hd man and my wife is an ld we are both in our late 60's. For a while we had a classic sex starved marriage. Though introspection, some great books, changing myself and then seeking help from a sex theapist the two of us have reconnected and saved our marriage.

First of all, most people really don't have a clue as to what life in an hd/ld marriage is like. I would say that was one of the hardest things for me to wrap my head around, but i think i am there now.

David schnarch in his book the passionate marriage and the crucible likes to point out that everything in marriage is about reaching a compromise between an ld and hd partner. One partner may be hd when it comes to watching professional football on tv. Another partner may be hd when it comes to watching murder mysteries on tv, one partner may be hd when it comes to chocolate ice cream for dessert. Same with sex.

There is no "right amount" of chocolate ice cream for dessert. For some the urge for chocolate might be overwhelming and they may "need" it 3 times a day, at lunch, at a ice cream shop on the way home and after dinner. Their spouse may prefer vanilla ice cream once a month and just politely play with the chocolate ice cream served up in a small bowl after each dinner. It doesn't matter if chopped nuts, whipped cream, or sprinkles are added to the chocolate ice cream. Are they a bad spouse for not craving chocolate ice cream as much as their spouse? No, they as a couple just need to figure out how they can make each other happy and reach a reasonable compromise they can both live with.

I have been in bed with my wife playing and kissing and she has stopped looked at me and told me to not touch her down there, because if i do, she will want to have sex and she doesn't want to have sex that night or morning. That is ld looking you straight in the eyes. My wife when aroused likes and enjoys sex. However, she doesn't want sex as much as i want sex. That is never going to change. In fact sex is far lower on her priorities of things she would rather do. It is not about sex with me as sex in general.

The sex therapist who helped save our marriage helped us negotiate a frequency of sex that we can both live with and will keep us emotionally close. It is twice a week. The sex therapist helped me understand that my wife really does love me and really wants to stay married to me, she just doesn't want sex as much as i do. My wife has a stressful job and sometimes that just kills her desire for sex. Again, that has nothing to do with her desire for me, or her love for me. For a long time she felt like a sexual failure or a broken defective person for not wanting sex as much as i did. The sex therapist helped her understand she is not defective or broken, she just has a different level of desire for sex than her husband. Being married to an ld partner is a challenge. It doesn't mean that she doesn't love me or desire me. It just means that her sexual needs and priorities are different than mine. She is not broken, and i love her for who she is.

Some nights she is not really in the mood and yet she knows that i really would like to have sex. On some of those nights she will give me the gift of her body. She enjoys knowing that she can pleasure me and she enjoys how much i enjoy sex with her and how emotionally close it makes me feel to her. I had to learn how to lovingly accept her special gifts when she gave them to me.

I have learned that even if i gave her a bubble bath, massaged her back and feet for hours, been extremely romantic, that all those replayed mental work meetings repeating in her head would not get her in the mood for sex. On those nights we can either play in some other way or we can have the sexual connection with her that i emotionally need. Some times we will put it off for another night. Sometimes after a stressful week, she will just pull me onto her and tell me to take her and she will enjoy what her body is capable of doing for me.. Again, when she does that it is not something i view as her giving into duty sex. I view it as her enjoying providing me with a special treat and feeling good about it.

I think you need to talk to her and see if maybe your perspective isn't the problem.

Good luck.
^^^this!!!^^^
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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 09:56 AM
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Re: Unhappy answers about desire

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BUT then one reply to one question was, and I'm quoting wife here, "well sex just doesn't matter much to me any more. I can go a day, week or a month and it doesn't bother me, I don't need it."
Actually the follow up questions should have been "is it sex doesn't matter or is it actually, sex with me no longer matters"

When you say "I don't need it" does that mean you really no longer physically need it or is it you no longer need it with me?

The you can find out the real hard hitting truths

We protect ourselves from lies,
By fanatically holding to our own truths.
But when our truths turn to fanaticism,
Our truths become the Lie.
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 10:33 AM
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Re: Unhappy answers about desire

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Actually the follow up questions should have been "is it sex doesn't matter or is it actually, sex with me no longer matters"

When you say "I don't need it" does that mean you really no longer physically need it or is it you no longer need it with me?

The you can find out the real hard hitting truths
Or maybe she never felt it was something she ever "needed" in the first place.
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