Our sex life is going to ruin our marriage - Talk About Marriage
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post #1 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 01:26 AM Thread Starter
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Our sex life is going to ruin our marriage

We have (or could have) a frequent sex life, that isnít the problem here. The problem is the quality of the sex. My wife would have sex daily but the sex isnít satisfying.

She tries, so I give her credit for that. We keep the communication open and I try to teach her what I like but she just doesnít get it. I use to believe that no one was bad at sex, just inexperienced or poor communication. My wife has changed my mind, and I hate saying that. She tries so hard.

-Handjobs result in chaffing and she has no rhythm. They feel very awkward like she cannot move her hand/wrist properly. I have tried so many times to show her how to do it but she just cannot get it. If I keep my hand over hers the entire time itís alright, but where is the fun in that.

-Blowjobs are boring. I encourage her to use her hands but again, no rhythm and it makes it worse having the alternate random motions from hand and mouth. She doesnít know how to use her tongue and canít follow direction.

-She never looks like she is enjoying it. No enthusiasm. She isnít winning any awards for her performance. She canít do both at the same time, the physical act and the emotional act. I do not get it.

-She cannot dirty talk without it being awkward. It doesnít naturally come from her. She doesnít moan much when she does it sounds like a broken record. The same noise over and over. I can tell her to switch it up but she forgets.

-In most positions where Iím in control she ends up just laying there silent and still. I encourage her to move a bit, touch me, kiss me, be involved and she will but then forgets.

-If she is on top weíre back to the issue of no rhythm. Itís hard to get the positioning right so itís frequently uncomfortable for me.

It just doesnít come naturally to herÖ Iíve been with inexperienced women, but I have never been with a woman who just couldnít learn.

It has led to me not wanting to have sex with her because itís more satisfying to take care of myself, which in turn led to a loss of general intimacy. And with that, I fell out of love with her. The lack of intimacy is hurting her, as is my attitude towards her. Itís killing our marriage. She is very attractive and has an amazing body but I feel like Iím losing my attraction for her as well. The ****ty part is that she tries. She ****ing tries... and 5 years later nothing has improved.

This hasn't been an issue just with me. She had unhappy men in previous relationships. She knows that the sex isn't mind blowing. She has gone as far as offering I have those 'needs' met elsewhere, though it killed her to say that. I wouldn't do that to her. I don't want to divorce her over bad sex, but that is where we are headed.

Is there any way to mend this?
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post #2 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 03:12 AM
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Re: Our sex life is going to ruin our marriage

I married a virgin and my wife is a perfect submissive. Not in the dominate/sub way but she let me do anything to her. However in 44 years of marriage she has never initiated sex or suggested we do something different. It was always me. Luckily she tried every fetish in the book with me but she never got get into the psychological aspect of the fetish. She never talks during sex and if she did not moan during an orgasm, I would not know it. If I talked she told me to be quiet as it destroyed her concentration. I think it destroyed her fantasizing about women.

On the plus side she can reach orgasm in under 3 minutes and keep having them until she is physically exhausted. She will orgasm only with direct stimulation of her clitoris and it does not take much. She is bi and does not like intercoure anymore since undergoing a few surgeries in her vagina. Plus she says I am too big for her. I am not big, she is 4' 11" and 90 lbs. To her I am too big. To other women I was just a little over average.

She knew this was a problem because we communicated a lot about sex. I am not shy about telling women what I like and dislike. Like your wife she tried but she knows little about the male anatomy and does not like to read about it to learn. As her first solution we did a wife swap with friends. She hated it because the guy was too rough for her. My wife does not like PIV since discovering we are both sterile added to her medical problems. She likes sex which is basically extended making out and then either finish with my hand, oral of her vibrator which is her favorite.

We did some soft swinging which is swinging but saving the main event for your spouse. That went well for a few years and we hosted some pretty wild pool parties and dances. Then she discovered that she was bi and that started a string of girlfriends whom she shared with me. Finally settled in with her best friend who was given a furnished room in our home and a full wardrobe of sexy clothes to go with her conservative teacher outfits that she wore daily.

The girls and threesomes were all my wife's idea. In fact, the wife swap was her idea too. She really tried to provide me with the type of sex she could not. Threesomes became our main sex life and that was good. My wife learned from watching her girlfriends sexually please me and then repeated what they did but with more love and energy. Nothing like a little competition to bring out their A game.

Long story short, we had an ethical non monogamous marriage and a poly triad with our girlfriend. That kept sex interesting because we could also go outside the marriage if we wanted to. Only did so 6 times combined with wife, over our 44 years of marriage. It was not like we went looking for people to have sex with on our own all the time. Plus it was all above board. Our girlfriend was game for anything and liked to try new things which took care of my needs and also taught my wife new things. I’ve seen how the whole relationship lockdown breeds an almost viral tendency to take the other person for granted, to have huge expectations, and to deliver this all from a sense of duty and obligation — without a thank you! We do not take each other for granted.

We abandoned the current morality governing marriage. It has a 50% fail rate. I would not buy a car that failed 50% of the time so why accept those odds for a lifetime marriage contract. People think we were crazy, perverted and immoral and yet we are the only ones still married out of all of those in the marriage police. We simply rejected the one size fits all marriage model and modified it to meet our needs. Our own morality has a zero percent marriage failure rate and I have never posted here or elsewhere about a marital problem. I find it a little interesting that some of those who post here with marital problems do not like my opinions which work when theirs do not. That is what I mean about doggedly clinging to their morality as ship sinks. My signature block states a truth which dooms a lot of people. Even rats have the good sense to desert a sinking ship.

Our sex life is varied and complicated and not something most would want to try. I am not trying to convert anyone as I know that is fruitless in a world that worships monogamy. Actually serial monogamy where you first destroy the person you love and then can have sex with someone else, even for a night, to be morally correct. Somehow that is a better option for monogamous people.

What we did was to find something to spice up our sex life when it got boring and that is what we are doing now. We found a way around your problem but you need to have the mental capacity to control jealousy and feel compersion (happiness for the pleasure your spouse gets from others) instead. It is a game best played by those who can handle it intellectually because the physical part has to be separated from the fear of loss an insecurity we all feel. Yes we do sometimes feel jealous at times, but we control it and are happy for our spouse's pleasure. Jealousy can co-exist with compersion. We are subject to the same genetic emotions that everyone has. We just can compartmentalize them in our brains and not let them turn us into raving beasts who want to tear our spouse apart because he put his wee wee in her hoo ha. Mankind has made what all animals do to procreate, a spiritual and sacred act, instead of the natural act it is. Humans like to think themselves special creations of some unseen entity that somehow is made in their image, right down to the beard white robe.

So this is how we handled a similar problem as you. My wife is loving the new fetish we are now into (chastity play) and she has taken the lead in sex for once. She is having her most intense orgams and multiple ones at that. Not bad for a 64 year old woman with a hip replacement. I have always found a way to spice up our sex life by taking it in a new direction that we both can enjoy. The marriage police we knew back home hated us, but the divorce courts love us since we never take up any of their time. Once you free yourself from the confines of monogamy, anything is possible if you can handle it. We never went looking for sex partners and sex with others was the exception and not the rule. Just having choices made things work better.

I never had sex with another women during my annual 3 months spent overseas, when I was not with my wife or girlfriend. As I said, we were not looking for sex with others unless there was a particular need for it. Those needs were few and far in-between. Plus when you take away the taboo of cheating, it loses its appeal. Doing what is taboo is always exciting. It was not so with me though. Good luck and try thinking out of the box. You certainly do not have to do it our way. As I said, we designed our marriage to work for us and part of that was my wife's need for a woman as well as me in her life. Ask your wife what fetishes she might want to try and then find common ground. Work around her problems. Most will not work out, but some will. My wife took to some that I never thought she would like. Plus having her girlfriend around to teach her and to observe, helped a lot. You cannot argue with success and nobody was ever hurt. All that we did could be done within monogamy. If love is there, you can always find solutions.

Many prefer to drown in a pool of their own morality rather than seek the safety of a different morality when the choice is monogamy or your marriage.

Last edited by Vinnydee; 03-28-2017 at 03:18 PM.
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post #3 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 04:20 AM
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Re: Our sex life is going to ruin our marriage

How long have you been married? You clearly were not virgins when married so there must have been a time when you felt connected enough with her to be married. So when did things change? Do you use a lot of porn? Do you think SHE may be bored too?

From a female perspective - sex becomes far more natural and adventurous when I am very aroused before sex even starts. Do you spend time making her feel desired; touching, kissing, caressing. Do you talk dirty to her? Are you good at playing with her and teasing? You say she doesn't moan much and sounds like a broken record (this sounds like too much porn on your part). There was a thread on TAM about noise during sex and most women say its is involuntary, others says they make no noise whatsoever. Loud porny noises can be used for role playing porny sex, but for everyday it is very fake. You are telling her to switch it up, do xyz but I am wondering if she is beginning to feel criticised and therefore losing confidence. (What does switch it up even mean?)

Forget BJs for now, concentrate on HJ's which is an easier skill. Important to lay off masturbation. The reason why HJs are not satisfactory may be because you are used to your own rhythm and pressure - that is difficult for someone to learn as it is very personal. If you reset this stimulus then your wife's touch will be way more interesting and satisfying.

Get some oil and have a long evening where you do not have PIV but spend (a lot of) time just playing. YOU need to help her with her confidence with actions, not directions. As for positions you could buy a book such as the kamasutra and have fun practicing something new to you both. Be vulnerable together as though you are new in your relationship. Your post sounds very urgent and angsty and I wonder if she is picking up on your disappointment. Slow down and start from the basics.

Also if you are having sex everyday really, really important for sex to be varied (that doesn't just mean different positions, but different locations, role play, toys etc). Do you bathe or shower together? Could you read erotica together before sex? You say she is very attractive, this is something positive that you need to say often before, during and after sex. If she is not open to doing different things it may be better to have sex less frequently and build up some sexual tension between you.

Last edited by peacem; 03-27-2017 at 06:02 AM.
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post #4 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 06:18 AM
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Re: Our sex life is going to ruin our marriage

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From a female perspective - sex becomes far more natural and adventurous when I am very aroused before sex and touching start.
This was pretty much my first thought about this. It also speaks volumes that she mentioned that you could get your needs met elsewhere (though you said she did this with difficulty).

What I think may be happening is that she's just not that into sex, OP is, and she's trying her best to please him. But that's the only reason she's there.

IMO, despite what OP's experiences are, one can't be terrible at sex if they're into it. It might not jive with what you want, but enthusiasm mixed with poor execution is still good sex. But poor execution sticks out like a sore thumb when the enthusiasm and interest for sex is missing. What I mean is that it's such a natural thing, and when one is awkward it's because it isn't happening naturally (ie. it's for your sake only). If she's only having sex because you want to and she solely wants to please you, then her lack of skill will stand out. If she was truly turned on, needed you, craved your body and was otherwise right into the sex, things might be different.

I think we've all had these experiences, where we can tell our partners are more or less just going through the motions. My ex wife did this a lot. My current wife every now and again. You can just tell they're not really into it, and the quality suffers.

Sex is 99% mental, and enthusiasm and passion can override virtually anything.

OP has said that previous relationships have suffered because of this, which says his wife is aware and open about it. Yet she continues to use the same poor techniques in the bedroom, which indicates that she's tuning out of the constructive criticism and continues to 'go through the motions'. This means, to me, that she's not thinking during sex, and simply doing the same things she's always done. Almost like she's turning off her mind. And people generally turn off their mind when they're not particularly interested in something.

I'm not saying she's not into the OP. I think she's perhaps just not that into sex for whatever reason, or frequent sex, anyway. Maybe it's as simple as being too often for her, I don't know. My wife would have sex with me 4, 5 times a week if I pressed the issue, but the quality would suffer enormously because she won't really want to. As it is, she's good for once a week, and it's almost always fantastic and she's right into it and eager. That's all she really requires, so I acquiesce. *shrug*

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post #5 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 06:43 AM
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Re: Our sex life is going to ruin our marriage

yeah, and some women are horrible dancers too....so you do not take them onto the dance floor!

She seems eager to try, and that means a LOT.
What makes HER cum? have you tried things that make her feel sexy/kinky? like do you buy her hot lingerie to wear to turn you on, and compliment her on how sexy she looks? Have you tried bondage, role plays, sexual toys? Have you tried giving her multiple orgasms with sex toys, to see how she does after the 10th one while she is tied to the bed. Maybe get her one of those butterfly vibrators, and have her wear it around the house giving her random orgasms?

Find out what she CAN do, and build on that.
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post #6 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 07:53 AM
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Re: Our sex life is going to ruin our marriage

She's doing too many "activities" during sex with you.

Start over like others have said. Focus on her pleasure and sensation. Go slowly. Talk about what she is feeling and thinking. Ask if she likes this or that touch. You do the caressing and touching. Be very light and gentle. Have her close her eyes...
Try to get her to slow down and focus on the pleasure and touch.

Maybe just got her off with your hand while you kiss her and gently stimulate hr breasts, etc. Treat her like a young lover - start with touch and sensation and eroticism.

PIV, HJ and BJ are her having to act and perform. Instead focus on intimacy, closeness, eroticism.

Try to reach "her" before you work on her getting you off

That's all I can think of... start over and let her discover sex as a sensual and enjoyable experience. Then maybe she'll build the confidence to share that feeling... slowly and one act at a time until she is confident and in touch with you during the act


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post #7 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 07:57 AM
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Re: Our sex life is going to ruin our marriage

Realize you are working with a virgin basically. Be gentle, caring and lead in a way that isn't threatening. I really think her attractiveness may make people assume she should be experienced and she may never have had the chance to explore with someone else without immediate pressure to be a porn star. Good luck


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post #8 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 08:05 AM
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Re: Our sex life is going to ruin our marriage

Your ages.

Children?

Married 5 years?

How long in current relationship?

Previous marriages?

Has she been sexually assaulted or abused in her past or as a child?

Can she climax? Are you sure?
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post #9 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 08:40 AM
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Re: Our sex life is going to ruin our marriage

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Is there any way to mend this?
I think the most important ingredient for a wife to be awesome at sex is her self confidence. After that, not too much else matters other than knowing a few techniques to tease you.

Unfortunately you seem to have been doing the opposite. You have probably been very critical to your wife while she is trying to please which means she probably has zero self confidence at the moment. Instead of showing her how to tease you with "less is more" you have been teaching her to overstimulate you with "more is less" which likely leaves you numb and unable to enjoy sex.

Instead of "orgasm focused" sex, try to engage in sex for the purpose of an emotional connection. For at least a few times, try avoiding orgasms and just try to feel close to your wife. See what happens!

Regards,
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post #10 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 08:52 AM
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Re: Our sex life is going to ruin our marriage

Be glad for what you got and buy a big bottle of hand lotion for the handjobs.
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post #11 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 09:31 AM
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Re: Our sex life is going to ruin our marriage

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We have (or could have) a frequent sex life, that isnít the problem here. The problem is the quality of the sex. My wife would have sex daily but the sex isnít satisfying.

She tries, so I give her credit for that. We keep the communication open and I try to teach her what I like but she just doesnít get it. I use to believe that no one was bad at sex, just inexperienced or poor communication. My wife has changed my mind, and I hate saying that. She tries so hard.

-Handjobs result in chaffing and she has no rhythm. They feel very awkward like she cannot move her hand/wrist properly. I have tried so many times to show her how to do it but she just cannot get it. If I keep my hand over hers the entire time itís alright, but where is the fun in that.

-Blowjobs are boring. I encourage her to use her hands but again, no rhythm and it makes it worse having the alternate random motions from hand and mouth. She doesnít know how to use her tongue and canít follow direction.

-She never looks like she is enjoying it. No enthusiasm. She isnít winning any awards for her performance. She canít do both at the same time, the physical act and the emotional act. I do not get it.

-She cannot dirty talk without it being awkward. It doesnít naturally come from her. She doesnít moan much when she does it sounds like a broken record. The same noise over and over. I can tell her to switch it up but she forgets.

-In most positions where Iím in control she ends up just laying there silent and still. I encourage her to move a bit, touch me, kiss me, be involved and she will but then forgets.

-If she is on top weíre back to the issue of no rhythm. Itís hard to get the positioning right so itís frequently uncomfortable for me.

It just doesnít come naturally to herÖ Iíve been with inexperienced women, but I have never been with a woman who just couldnít learn.

It has led to me not wanting to have sex with her because itís more satisfying to take care of myself, which in turn led to a loss of general intimacy. And with that, I fell out of love with her. The lack of intimacy is hurting her, as is my attitude towards her. Itís killing our marriage. She is very attractive and has an amazing body but I feel like Iím losing my attraction for her as well. The ****ty part is that she tries. She ****ing tries... and 5 years later nothing has improved.

This hasn't been an issue just with me. She had unhappy men in previous relationships. She knows that the sex isn't mind blowing. She has gone as far as offering I have those 'needs' met elsewhere, though it killed her to say that. I wouldn't do that to her. I don't want to divorce her over bad sex, but that is where we are headed.

Is there any way to mend this?
OMg I have the PERFECT solution for you man! But I cant say it here cause I would be kicked out of this forum. It's too grafic!
My wife was the same way...then I decided to try something...
We were to the point of no sex cause I gave up on her, then I thought...**** it, I'm going to try this, I have nothing to lose. And it worked so well, than not only I could get what I wanted and how I wanted it, but she opened up and is exploring wild fantasies now! We have never been more in sync than now!
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post #12 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 09:33 AM
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Re: Our sex life is going to ruin our marriage

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Be glad for what you got and buy a big bottle of hand lotion for the handjobs.
What? really? seriously? You can be serious...
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post #13 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 09:40 AM
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Re: Our sex life is going to ruin our marriage

All you can do is teach her. If guiding her in the moment doesn't work, you'll have to find a way to talk about this another time, outside the bedroom. There are instructional videos for this purpose that aren't porn, and there is porn which does focus on how to please men. You have a good basis to go on - she is willing and enthusiastic about sex, so just be careful not to criticize her, as that could ruin even the good things.

Be aware, though, that some people are just bad at sex, no matter how much instruction and practice they get. Some people never develop the rhythms or sensitivity to their partner. I hope that isn't the case here, otherwise you won't see much improvement, and sex will remain bad.

Love is an ideal thing; marriage is a real thing; a confusion of the real with the ideal never goes unpunished. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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post #14 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 10:12 AM
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Re: Our sex life is going to ruin our marriage

Are you able to do things that please her in bed, or are both of you not enjoying?
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post #15 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 11:10 AM
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Re: Our sex life is going to ruin our marriage

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Originally Posted by marriedmarc View Post
We have (or could have) a frequent sex life, that isn’t the problem here. The problem is the quality of the sex. My wife would have sex daily but the sex isn’t satisfying.

She tries, so I give her credit for that........ She tries so hard.....

-Handjobs result in chaffing and she has no rhythm......

-Blowjobs are boring......

-She never looks like she is enjoying it. No enthusiasm......

-She cannot dirty talk without it being awkward.......

-In most positions where I’m in control she ends up just laying there silent and still.....

-If she is on top we’re back to the issue of no rhythm.....

It has led to me not wanting to have sex with her because it’s more satisfying to take care of myself, which in turn led to a loss of general intimacy. And with that, I fell out of love with her. The lack of intimacy is hurting her, as is my attitude towards her. It’s killing our marriage.

....She had unhappy men in previous relationships. She knows that the sex isn't mind blowing. She has gone as far as offering I have those 'needs' met elsewhere, though it killed her to say that. I wouldn't do that to her. I don't want to divorce her over bad sex, but that is where we are headed.

Is there any way to mend this?
Wow! I am amazed with that approach that she even tries, she must love you a lot.


One of the things I learned from my sex starved marriage where my wife would not have sex with me is that I was a big part of the problem. It took a long time for me to figure that out and change myself so I was no longer part of the problem. One of the things that MW Davis in her book the Sex Starved Marriage stresses is that most couples with sexual problems, if you really dig down deep enough, you will find both partners own part of the problem.

I see two huge problems in your relationship with your wife. The first is that you want to change her, without accepting any ownership of the problem and without any change on your part.

As Bad Santa said confidence is a critical element in sexuality. Whether you meant to or not, you have communicated either through words, body language, facial expressions, tone of voice, that you just don't enjoy sex with her and that you think she is an unskilled lover. She has told you she had such fears associated with other men.

Now put yourself in her shoes for a moment. She is unsure of womanly skills and you have reinforced such a self-image. You have put incredible "performance anxiety upon her and yet she still tries to pleasure you, out of her love for you.

The second huge problem I see is that rather than providing a safe emotional environment for her and you to work together learning about sex, you feel she can't learn (and would rather masturbate that try to teach her) are now contemplating divorce. She has told you to find the type of sex you need elsewhere if you must. That is truly not good for either of you to come to this point.

Now is there something that can help? In my experience, yes. A really great sex therapist helped save my marriage. The sex therapist (a marriage counselor with extra training in sexual problems and sexual dysfunction) helped my wife and me unlearn years of toxic sexual habits. One of the most important things the ST taught us was that sex should be "fun, playful, and exploratory." It should be an adult form of recess where you get to play with your best friend and do all kinds of things without any pressure on performing. Sometimes sex will be wonderful for both of you, sometimes it will be wonderful for just one of you. Sometimes it will just not work and you will stop, laugh and try again another day, but you will be laughing together an holding each other close.

You wife isn't broken. She doesn't need to be fixed. The two of you just need to relearn together as a couple how to avoid your toxic habits and how to have fun, playful sex together. A good sex therapist can give you reading material, videos, exercises and homework to help the two of your to get the sex you both want. But it will take change on the part of both of you and hard work for both of you.

Good luck.

Last edited by Young at Heart; 03-27-2017 at 11:31 AM.
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