Is watching porn a form of infidelity? - Page 5 - Talk About Marriage
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View Poll Results: Is watching porn a form of infidelity?
Yes. 8 13.11%
Yes but I am able to tolerate it. 2 3.28%
No but I am still bothered by it. 8 13.11%
No. 43 70.49%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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post #61 of 222 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 06:32 AM
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Re: Is watching porn a form of infidelity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
Having seen so many people and marriages destroyed though infidelity and porn use, I hope that people will learn the terrible damage it does both to the one who looks at it and to marriage in generaL.its sad that so few understand the damage and harm it does, and the amazing marriage and sex they can have if both are completely faithful.

When we marry we make promises, it all depends on whether we want to keep those promises or not in the end.

I get that you and others get angry when you encounter people who dont do this, because its going against the flow and that is never popular. There are many like us though, who recognise that its a horrible industry that damages so many in it and so many who use it. The only winners are those who make billions out of it.
I think what others are saying, and I agree with, is that you're making it all very black and white. The world simply isn't black and white.

I can't attest to open marriages and such, but I can speak to porn use.

I'm a guy who is HD, yet only has sex 3-4 times a month, and I only watch porn occasionally. Many, many people, like myself, are entirely capable of moderation in things, such as porn. Some are not, unfortunately. Some simply have addictive personalities, or a need to escape from reality. But really, most people I'd wager, do not.

So things like porn addiction (or addiction to anything, really) very much depends on the person, not the circumstances, IMO.

Porn addiction can be, and is, very destructive to a marriage, there's no doubt. But the addictive personality came first, and the circumstances are, IMO, the justification, not the cause.

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post #62 of 222 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 10:45 AM
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Re: Is watching porn a form of infidelity?

It is wonderful that you have a great relationship, I really mean that. You and your husband are compatible and happy. Unfortunately not everyone is so fortunate.

Imagine if you decided that you no longer wanted sex with your husband. You just didn't feel like it and wouldn't do it. Would you prefer if he divorced you or watched porn, or should he stay in a sexless marriage, not even able to enjoy some fantasy himself?





Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
You don't seem to get it.
I find it so freeing having a husband who treats me so well as to forsake all others and not look at porn. I love being married to a very moral man who has such standards. We don't 'bind each other' up at all, we both had these standards long long before we met each other and I love him for it. We each have our own moral values, we don't impose them on each other. He is the most easy going, easy to please man I have ever met, he never tells me how to act in this area or what I can and cant do. My moral values are my own. I will avoid sex scenes even if he isn't with me, I don't think its good for our marriage to see them. Intimacy is for us alone. I am not going to bring other men into the marriage bed, even if they are only in my mind. I respect and love him far too much to do that.

I know what porn use and infidelity does, I have seen far too many marriages destroyed by these things.

By sleeping around I was talking about an open marriage not porn.

There are so many studies and articles around now telling us the damage that porn does, both to those who look and to the marriages. We would have to be blind not to know this now.
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post #63 of 222 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 10:49 AM
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Re: Is watching porn a form of infidelity?

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Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
It is wonderful that you have a great relationship, I really mean that. You and your husband are compatible and happy. Unfortunately not everyone is so fortunate.

Imagine if you decided that you no longer wanted sex with your husband. You just didn't feel like it and wouldn't do it. Would you prefer if he divorced you or watched porn, or should he stay in a sexless marriage, not even able to enjoy some fantasy himself?
I'd prefer he work with me to improve the marriage. My issue with porn is mainly that many men turn to it instead of turning to their wives, especially if there are issues in the marriage. This can affect intimacy big time. Just like I think it would affect intimacy if I turned to other men to meet my intimate needs instead of my husband.
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post #64 of 222 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 11:06 AM
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Re: Is watching porn a form of infidelity?

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Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
Having seen so many people and marriages destroyed though infidelity and porn use, I hope that people will learn the terrible damage it does both to the one who looks at it and to marriage in generaL.its sad that so few understand the damage and harm it does, and the amazing marriage and sex they can have if both are completely faithful.
The bolded parts are called opinions. Opinions are not facts.
The underlined parts are called opinion based judgements. Opinion based judgements are best left to those who have done the actual research, you know with actual science, peer reviewed, longitudinal, you know...science. Reading the Bible, attending mass, and engaging on TAM is neither research, nor science. It is called anecdotal.


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When we marry we make promises, it all depends on whether we want to keep those promises or not in the end.
Promises stated and expectations both stated and unstated. Relationships are messy and there are no hard and fast one size fits all rules that can accurately promise a close and loving marriage. You write as if you have the answer and the fact is that you do not.

Quote:
I get that you and others get angry when you encounter people who dont do this, because its going against the flow and that is never popular. There are many like us though, who recognise that its a horrible industry that damages so many in it and so many who use it. The only winners are those who make billions out of it.
I'm pretty sure the coal industry has the lock on 'harmful, damaging and horrible' to both makers (miners) and users, not to mention everyone else who lives in the vicinity of coal based energy production.

But hey let's ignore facts because they sure are inconvenient. And instead let's act like our lack of factual evidence is really just other people being popular bullies.

WRT porn... I'm sure that a significant amount of available porn involves victimizing the participants in a lasting and harmful way. But not porn made in countries that have labor regulations. Porn from very poor countries is supporting the victimization of women and girls.

Being a bartender can have negative effects. Being a doctor, a nurse, a cop...there are risks in every profession...which is why we have labor laws that reduce the risk and increase the safety and fairness of the employee.

But let's do away with collective bargaining, and OSHA and instead let's give more power to the employer, who is more than likely a big corporation and not your neighborhood bakery.


Quote:
If you asked my husband, family and friends, you would know that I am not in the least rigid or repressed or uptight. I have never been happier or more relaxed. I am a very easy going and easy to please person, as is my husband. I am also someone who wont let anyone treat me badly, so I would never be with a man who thinks its ok to look at porn.

Because you believe porn to be evil on all fronts, you believe that a man who looks at porn is engaging in evil. Which is perfectly logical and okay for you.

It is also true that many Catholics believe that semen should only be deposited in the vagina in welcoming of a potential birth and any sort of sex that does not end with semen inside the vagina is considered absolutely wrong. Wrong because it could never result in a birth if the semen is deposited in a mouth, or a hand, or a tissue, or the anus, or the neck, or the breasts, or the back or stomach. Wrong because all sexual energy outside of procreative intent, is called lust and lust is wrong.

Anyone who came to SIM and spouted such rigid and inflexible opinion based judgements would be shouted down and shoo'd away from participating because this forum is about Sex In Marriage. Not sex in the Christian marriage, or sex in the Muslim marriage, or even sex in the open marriage. It is about sex within the context of a committed relationship between consenting adults and opinion based judgements with no basis in facts or science should be stated as "I believe that..." or "my faith teaches me that...." or "in my opinion ...."

When the medical community publishes guidelines and recommendations they are based in fact. Unless you have something to say that is backed up by research somewhere, you are pushing your beliefs and values on others.

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post #65 of 222 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 11:13 AM
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Re: Is watching porn a form of infidelity?

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Originally Posted by alexm View Post
Agreed, for the most part.

There are actually many 'how-to' videos, for starters, which would be considered porn by many (ie. graphic).

There are also many, many home-made videos available on certain free porn sites, that have real people doing real things in them.

If one is talking straight-up studio-produced porn, then yes, that's fake (and the people are even more so, usually!) and there's nothing educational about it. But there's plenty of so-called 'amateur' porn out there that isn't fake.
Clearly I need to broaden my porn exposure! I recently came across this web site dealing with women learning to orgasm... I don't find it porn but it involves frank discussions about the female body and ways to induce arousal and orgasm and naked women being touched to orgasm.


https://www.omgyes.com

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post #66 of 222 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 11:16 AM
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Re: Is watching porn a form of infidelity?

There are scientific, peer-reviewed studies showing that porn causes issues in marriage:

1. Porn-free relationships are stronger, with a lower rate of infidelity.

That’s what Amanda Maddox and her colleagues found in a study of men and women, ages 18 to 34, who were in romantic relationships. The researchers measured the levels of negative communication, relationship adjustment, dedication or interpersonal commitment, sexual satisfaction, and infidelity. In their study, 76.8 percent of men and 34.6 percent of women looked at sexually explicit material alone; 44.8 percent reported viewing it with partners. They found that people who didn’t view any porn had lower levels of negative communication, were more committed to the relationship, and had higher sexual satisfaction and relationship adjustment. Their rate of infidelity was at least half of those who had watched sexual material alone and with their partners. But people who only watched porn with their partners were more dedicated to the relationship and more sexually satisfied than those who watched alone.

It goes on to say that watching porn diminishes relationship commitment.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...-does-intimacy

And this study in the Journal of Family and Economic Issues: Pornography and Marriage | SpringerLink

"We found that adults who had watched an X-rated movie in the past year were more likely to be divorced, more likely to have had an extramarital affair, and less likely to report being happy with their marriage or happy overall. We also found that, for men, pornography use reduced the positive relationship between frequency of sex and happiness. Finally, we found that the negative relationship between pornography use and marital well-being has, if anything, grown stronger over time, during a period in which pornography has become both more explicit and more easily available."
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post #67 of 222 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 11:18 AM
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Re: Is watching porn a form of infidelity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
Having seen so many people and marriages destroyed though infidelity and porn use, I hope that people will learn the terrible damage it does both to the one who looks at it and to marriage in generaL.its sad that so few understand the damage and harm it does, and the amazing marriage and sex they can have if both are completely faithful.

When we marry we make promises, it all depends on whether we want to keep those promises or not in the end.

I get that you and others get angry when you encounter people who dont do this, because its going against the flow and that is never popular. There are many like us though, who recognise that its a horrible industry that damages so many in it and so many who use it. The only winners are those who make billions out of it.

If you asked my husband, family and friends, you would know that I am not in the least rigid or repressed or uptight. I have never been happier or more relaxed. I am a very easy going and easy to please person, as is my husband. I am also someone who wont let anyone treat me badly, so I would never be with a man who thinks its ok to look at porn.
Just so you understand where this barbarian stands,...

I find the porn industry vile. Same or worse than straight up prostitution.

I don't advocate for it but against and I do believe it weakens marriages at best.

I do not, however, equate watching sex, simulated or otherwise, as the same as physically or emotionally cheating with an actual person.
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post #68 of 222 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 11:27 AM
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Re: Is watching porn a form of infidelity?

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Originally Posted by Jessica38 View Post
I'd prefer he work with me to improve the marriage. My issue with porn is mainly that many men turn to it instead of turning to their wives, especially if there are issues in the marriage. This can affect intimacy big time. Just like I think it would affect intimacy if I turned to other men to meet my intimate needs instead of my husband.
But that is not because of porn's existence. Before porn there were still pics,burlesque, strip shows, topless dancers, further back there was erotic art and nude dancing, further back there were live shows and nude women serving exclusively male patrons.

The point is that porn, showing nude bodies and nude bodies engaged in sex acts, has been around since the printing press. The women involved were all victimized, almost always. Only recently, with the explosion of digital media, has porn become so easily available and only recently have anyone ever bothered with protecting women and girls from being victimized.

Men, being visual creatures and always always always having had more freedom, have availaled themselves of erotic imagery when available.

When we as a society remove stigmatization of, and rigid control upon sexuality in general we victimize less people because sexuality can never be successfully rigidly controlled.

When we as a society have also insisted on, passed, and enforced laws that prevent victimization, and provide worker rights we will also victimize less people.

Porn isn't bad. Rigidity is bad. Ignorance is bad. Inequality is bad.

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post #69 of 222 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 11:38 AM
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Re: Is watching porn a form of infidelity?

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But that is not because of porn's existence. Before porn there were still pics,burlesque, strip shows, topless dancers, further back there was erotic art and nude dancing, further back there were live shows and nude women serving exclusively male patrons.

The point is that porn, showing nude bodies and nude bodies engaged in sex acts, has been around since the printing press. The women involved were all victimized, almost always. Only recently, with the explosion of digital media, has porn become so easily available and only recently have anyone ever bothered with protecting women and girls from being victimized.

Men, being visual creatures and always always always having had more freedom, have availaled themselves of erotic imagery when available.

When we as a society remove stigmatization of, and rigid control upon sexuality in general we victimize less people because sexuality can never be successfully rigidly controlled.

When we as a society have also insisted on, passed, and enforced laws that prevent victimization, and provide worker rights we will also victimize less people.

Porn isn't bad. Rigidity is bad. Ignorance is bad. Inequality is bad.
To be clear, in no way am I advocating for stricter legislation/laws on porn. I'm a libertarian- live and let live. But porn is shown to cause damage in marriage. That is a fact. Use it at your discretion, but I agree- do not be ignorant of the fact that if you are married, it could impact the intimacy in marriage, as it is shown to do so.

And there are MANY sexual practices (hedonism) that have been a part of ancient cultures/civilaizations. Along with erotic literature and art in Ancient Rome, for example, was widespread prostitution. In no way do I believe that is healthy for modern marriage. Because porn is now more readily available does not make it any less damaging to the intimacy in marriage- in fact, research shows it is actually more damaging due to on-demand instant access, not to mention availability and younger ages.
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post #70 of 222 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 11:39 AM
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Re: Is watching porn a form of infidelity?

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Originally Posted by Jessica38 View Post
There are scientific, peer-reviewed studies showing that porn causes issues in marriage:

1. Porn-free relationships are stronger, with a lower rate of infidelity.

That’s what Amanda Maddox and her colleagues found in a study of men and women, ages 18 to 34, who were in romantic relationships. The researchers measured the levels of negative communication, relationship adjustment, dedication or interpersonal commitment, sexual satisfaction, and infidelity. In their study, 76.8 percent of men and 34.6 percent of women looked at sexually explicit material alone; 44.8 percent reported viewing it with partners. They found that people who didn’t view any porn had lower levels of negative communication, were more committed to the relationship, and had higher sexual satisfaction and relationship adjustment. Their rate of infidelity was at least half of those who had watched sexual material alone and with their partners. But people who only watched porn with their partners were more dedicated to the relationship and more sexually satisfied than those who watched alone.

It goes on to say that watching porn diminishes relationship commitment.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...-does-intimacy

And this study in the Journal of Family and Economic Issues: Pornography and Marriage | SpringerLink

"We found that adults who had watched an X-rated movie in the past year were more likely to be divorced, more likely to have had an extramarital affair, and less likely to report being happy with their marriage or happy overall. We also found that, for men, pornography use reduced the positive relationship between frequency of sex and happiness. Finally, we found that the negative relationship between pornography use and marital well-being has, if anything, grown stronger over time, during a period in which pornography has become both more explicit and more easily available."


LOL, and then there are the NONgerrypicked reviews of studies.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...-relationships

Quote:
"As pornography has become more widely available – thanks in no small part to the internet – rates of rape appear to have been declining rather markedly over the same time period; in much the same way, violence has been declining despite violent video games being more common and accessible than ever. The world is a complex place and there are plenty of variables at play, so those correlations are just that. Nevertheless, the evidence that pornography causes any kind of sexual offending is “inconsistent at best” (Ferguson & Hartley, 2009) and, given the nature of the topic, one might reasonably suspect that at least some of that inconsistency has to do with researchers setting out to find certain conclusions. To be blunt about it, some researchers probably “have their answer”, so to speak, before they even begin the research, and might either game their projects to find that result, or interpret otherwise ambiguous results in a manner consistent with their favored hypothesis"


https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...it-doesnt-have

Quote:
"A marriage is going along just fine—until the day a wife discovers that her husband has been watching Internet porn. This porn typically bears little resemblance to what she and her husband do in bed. Maybe the sex is rougher, kinkier, wilder, or the women in the videos look nothing like her. They are younger or older than she is, thinner or fatter, or dressed in fishnet stockings or bustiers. Maybe they say nasty words during the sex, things she would never think of uttering.

She feels betrayed, almost as if she had found him in bed with another woman. Then the labels come out—sex addict, pervert, deviant, liar—raining down upon the husband like spears. He is embarrassed, filled with shame, and swears he’ll never again pursue such fantasies. He promises to stop watching porn and to do anything else that would help him escape his wife’s wrath, anything that can erase the shame he’s feeling from being exposed. And he really means to keep his promise, but in another week, month, or year, he is drawn back to that irresistible make-believe sexual world."

I could google and post all day but I suspect I'd be wasting my time. The fact remains that there is no actual evidence that porn ruins marriages. Because it's not the porn ruining the marriage!

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post #71 of 222 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 11:47 AM
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Re: Is watching porn a form of infidelity?

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LOL, and then there are the NONgerrypicked reviews of studies.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...-relationships





https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...it-doesnt-have


I could google and post all day but I suspect I'd be wasting my time. The fact remains that there is no actual evidence that porn ruins marriages. Because it's not the porn ruining the marriage!
I remember in October 2014 you told me to stop scapegoating porn and 'get to the heart of the matter'. Turned out that was considerably easier and quicker than trying analyze the allure and philosophy of porn (which turns out to be a far more complicated subject than I first thought).

Answer: just have more sex. then have more interesting sex.
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post #72 of 222 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 11:48 AM
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Re: Is watching porn a form of infidelity?

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LOL, and then there are the NONgerrypicked reviews of studies.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...-relationships





https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...it-doesnt-have




I could google and post all day but I suspect I'd be wasting my time. The fact remains that there is no actual evidence that porn ruins marriages. Because it's not the porn ruining the marriage!
Peer-reviewed scientific studies ARE evidence-based and your first citation shows that porn use correlates to a decrease in rape (always a good thing, for sure). The second quote you linked is an opinion piece and doesn't appear to be linked to a scientific study. The psychologist's opinion that in some cases, porn in marriage doesn't HAVE to cause issues is an interesting point, but for the wife he portrays above, I'd argue that if she feels betrayed, it already has. Obviously you feel differently, and that's fine!

Last edited by Jessica38; 04-05-2017 at 12:08 PM.
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post #73 of 222 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 12:32 PM
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Re: Is watching porn a form of infidelity?

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Reading the Bible, attending mass, and engaging on TAM is neither research, nor science. It is called anecdotal.
WTF AP, every single post I make on TAM is purely science/research based! Well, most of my posts ... OK, maybe a handful ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon Pink View Post
I could google and post all day but I suspect I'd be wasting my time. The fact remains that there is no actual evidence that porn ruins marriages. Because it's not the porn ruining the marriage!

Putting aside those who suffer from addiction, the question still remains, is porn the cause of problems in a relationship or is it just simply a symptom. I would bet it is much easier to just point the finger at porn as the problem then to actually look at yourself and ask the difficult questions.
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post #74 of 222 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 12:35 PM
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Re: Is watching porn a form of infidelity?

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I remember in October 2014 you told me to stop scapegoating porn and 'get to the heart of the matter'. Turned out that was considerably easier and quicker than trying analyze the allure and philosophy of porn (which turns out to be a far more complicated subject than I first thought).

Answer: just have more sex. then have more interesting sex.
Thank you for posting that.

To have more sex you needed to look inside yourself and own what you wanted and needed and disown what was false.

And to have more interesting sex you had to let go and embrace new ideas.

I'm coming across as the champion for porn and that's not entirely accurate. Your post reminded me what is MOST important to me and the reason why I come back to SIM all the time.

The heart of the matter is almost always fear based. Porn is not the monster under the bed. The committee to end porn are preventing people from getting to the heart of the matter.

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post #75 of 222 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 12:43 PM
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Re: Is watching porn a form of infidelity?

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WTF AP, every single post I make on TAM is purely science/research based! Well, most of my posts ... OK, maybe a handful ...




Putting aside those who suffer from addiction, the question still remains, is porn the cause of problems in a relationship or is it just simply a symptom. I would bet it is much easier to just point the finger at porn as the problem then to actually look at yourself and ask the difficult questions.

That is the heart of the matter.

More and more women are becoming porn viewers, smut readers, etc. Why? Because the internet allows a woman to engage in media based eroticism privately, without fear of shame, or fear of being victimized. As we remove the stigma of **** shaming and encourage women to embrace all of their sexuality and not just religious doctrinal approved sexuality women are safer to explore eroticism just as men have always been.

There are still many women afraid to go into a sex shop and browse toys made for women! But now the internet allows women to buy toys privately, discretely and safely.

We must encourage sexual exploration and end **** shaming and rigid controls on women and their sexuality.

"Some women are blessed with multi-orgasmic ability for a reason and I'm damn sure not going to waste a blessing" ~FrenchFry


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