Sex in MarriageSexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.
When I first started fooling around with my girlfriend who is now my wife it all started out tame enough, with me fondling her tits and putting my hand down the front of her jeans. One night she caved into my simple demand of holding and fondling my erect penis with her hand. She didn't give me a hand job and acted as if feeling my member was a disgusting act. I had to masteurbate myself into the toilet to finish and if I remember correctly at the time she was reluctant to watch.
Now it was my belief at the time that I was her first boyfriend, although now I am not so sure, but I boasted by saying something along the lines: 'I bet that's the biggest penis that you have ever handled!' To which she responded 'I have handled bigger.' I asked her whose penis she had handled and she replied 'My Grandfathers'. Her Grandfather was dead at this time and my wife would have been about 15 when he passed away. She was still living in her Grandparent's house with her mother and sisters at this point. Her father was an alcoholic and was living elsewhere at the time. I don't think I ever met her Grandfather but her father seemed okay. Anyway it struck me after a bit exactly what she had said and I thought that perhaps as a girl she might have helped her mother or Grandmother bathe her Grandfather if he had been very ill. So I corrected her by saying 'You mean you have seen a bigger penis not handled one'. She responded by saying 'No I've handled bigger.' I am not known for being very subtle with words and I might have pushed the subject a bit too much at the time. She then clammed shut and tight about the subject. I went home shocked that night convinced that she was abused.
To this day I cannot determine if she was abused or not. Nor do I know the form of abuse. My imagination says it was along the lines of hand jobs and blowjobs as these would leave no marks but I really just don't know. Could it have been a one off innocent thing? She will do almost anything to avoid confict so I wonder has she buried this to spare her mother's feelings. He was her mother's father. She really loves her mother but grew up as a Daddy's girl. My wife was sent to drag him home from drinking at night. Her father has since died as well. I have never brought this subject up in conversation with her mother. I have always been stong with her mother and will not let her overstep the mark. My wife is quite unlike her two sisters who have gone through boyfriends, lovers and husbands like a hot knife through butter. Both her mother and father found lovers when they seperated. So why is my wife so 'backwards' or not as upfront about sex? Or is it just me?
Our sex life has never been good. She has to psych herself up to do certain acts and then can never abandon herself in the moment. Our children often ask her if I was her first boyfriend and she uses evasive answers like 'maybe'. I don't know if she is just teasing me about the boyfriends but tells me that between about 8 years old to about 15 she did hang in mixed groups of cousins and friends that played kiss and hide chasing games. My natural inclination is to believe that something small happened then but nothing like handling a bigger penis.
I hope this year to try going to counseling with her but I am also terrified that I might be stirring up a hornets nest. What are the possible reasons for a woman to even say something like this?
There is no one-off-innocent-thing between a grandfather and his grand daughter. Where does such a tought come from? It does sound like he sexually abused her. If he abused her, he probably abused her mother and her sisters. Child abusers ususally do not just select one child to abuse.
Other than the issue about her grandfather, why does it bother you whether or not she was involved with anyone before you?
EleGirl my wife told me that I was her first boyfriend and I never dis-believed this or really questioned this before. She was a very shy woman and not very assertive back then. For me the matter of having a previous boyfriend or not comes down to levels of trust and honesty. She says she did not have a boyfriend and I want to believe she is an honest person who is trying her best but if she is now changing her tune about this issue are there other serious issues she has hidden from me? I would find it mildly amusing to find out now who her first boyfriend was - if any - but if there was abuse involved it would shake me to the core. A few years ago when I tried to raise the abuse issue she denied it but I still wonder is this an act of suppression (is that the correct term?)
I suppose now that our marriage has become difficult I am going through every little detail in my head. Back then I thought because her Grandfather was dead 'what good would dragging up the past do?' Now I could be paying the price for not acting before this. I am reading as much relationship/marriage material as I can to see can I resolve some of my issues firstly and then work on issues together. Of late my wife has admitted to never having confidence in herself, she has let her appearance and dress sense go down hill. I mean to the point were I would have to beg her to spend money/use our joint credit card to buy shoes as the other pair was cracked and leaking. I spent money getting her teeth fixed but she never took care of them they are now worse than ever. She is afraid to go to the dentist - she would rather suffer tooth ache than go. I wonder where the line between free will and sometimes 'acting cruel to be kind' lies? I cannot get her to go on a date with me - she uses the children as an excuse every time. She apologies for everything to me. It is all 'sorry for this and sorry for that' when she has done no wrong. I tell her not to say sorry as she has done no wrong. But on my bad side if she does do something which I think is wrong I will tend to shout the whole house down. I often have to live as a hermit to avoid getting angry. For days I will not read or watch the news or look at newspapers/news feeds. Certain TV shows have to be turned off when I am in the room. It is extreme but it works!
In terms of '' Could it have been a one off innocent thing? " I once witnessed my daughter who was about 2 1/2 or 3 years old grab out of curiosity the penis of her autistic brother (he was about 9) when he came into the room naked after a bath. Beyond a situation like this I can think of no other.
Iwant2bhappy, I hope all is well with you and you have come to terms with an issue of this sort. It is brave of you to reply and speak up. Thank you for the support.
MEM7 I will do my best to work through this - even if it does take years.
What matters is your relationship. Does she bring what you need?
My guess is yes she was abused. It is up to her to decide to deal with it or not.
Trust is everything. I understand your unease if you think she has lied about either the abuse or not being a virgin. That is the real issue imho, not whether abuse happened.
If she was abused she needs good competent therapy Posted via Mobile Device
In all truth my needs are not being met. I am uncomfortable talking about certain things with her. I feel that she acts child like and has not grown up over the years. If I bring some sexual issues up (for example if I read about a new sexual craze and tried to mention it she would look at me like I had three heads! I'm not even asking for it - just talking about an issue) and she is likely to storm out or give me the cold shoulder for a few days. Or she hates me making noise during sex - the neighbours might hear - type of thing. But - a big but -because I cannot figure this one out - after sex she would walk naked in front of an uncurtained window and not worry if a neighbour would see her, she also might pull open a curtain while topless. In this aspect I am lost and don't understand her.
In all truth my needs are not being met. I am uncomfortable talking about certain things with her. I feel that she acts child like and has not grown up over the years. If I bring some sexual issues up (for example if I read about a new sexual craze and tried to mention it she would look at me like I had three heads! I'm not even asking for it - just talking about an issue) and she is likely to storm out or give me the cold shoulder for a few days. Or she hates me making noise during sex - the neighbours might hear - type of thing. But - a big but -because I cannot figure this one out - after sex she would walk naked in front of an uncurtained window and not worry if a neighbour would see her, she also might pull open a curtain while topless. In this aspect I am lost and don't understand her.
There's no way to diagnose your wife. Even if you ask her point blank about abuse or assault she will likely not answer truthfully if she was abused/assaulted. I am no expert, just the husband of an abuse survivor who has done some reading.
So, with that disclaimer, her behavior could be consistent with an abuse/assault history. What happens is the woman finds sex within a committed relationship to be difficult and scary. Frequently she can be sexual in a more casual relationship because there is no deep emotional intimacy. And if her abuse/assault was by a family member there is the added complication that once you get married to her you are now family.
So she feels embarrassed, shameful, and maybe frightened about sex with you. She can get through it if it is in a safe environment. i.e. she can get psyched up for it. For example she may need for it to be in the dark only, or it has to be pre-scheduled. Maybe she needs some alcohol. Maybe it must not be in a particular room. If you bring up sex in any way in a discussion outside of the boundaries she has put sex into, she gets very nervous and maybe unable to cope with the topic.
For example, my wife has compartmentalized sex as being Saturday night at 10pm. If I approach her any other time spontaneously, she gets agitated and refuses. So that is her compartment for sex. If I send her a sexy text or make some kind of suggestive remark, she gets all flustered. It is outside of the compartment of Saturday 10pm.
So your wife may be having that same reaction.
As to the exhibitionism, yeah that can happen too. Some abuse/assault survivors like the control they can exert with sex. They don't feel control in their marriage sex (a psychological thing), but they can feel control in non-marital sex. And they may like the risk of having the window open or the curtain open. My wife has always liked risky location sex. Not in the hotel lobby, but things like windows open or in the back room at a party without the door locked.
I don't know if she wants to get caught. Some kind of weird psych thing going back to wishing someone had caught her abuser? Or is it the adrenaline rush which she can't normally experience with sex, so she needs to up the excitement factor artificially? Dunno, but my wife is a lot like yours with not having any apparent sense that someone could look in the window.
Your wife obviously is aware that people may hear or see something. She says that during sex. Yet she forgets when undressed? Not likely.
Thor your post has given me huge food for thought. I have worked myself to the bone at times because I read articles stating this was a way to make a woman happy - to follow through on plans and the 'difficult things'. Over the years there has been little or no appreciation for the typical 'love gestures' - I can buy her flowers, chocolates, jewels, give her sums of money but it has no affect. If she has been dealing with a problem all this time then these things might not even register. I am not going to paint myself here as an angel - it can take me 5-10 years to finish some jobs - but they do get done in the end. As for the 'out of context' sex - I have to plead to get that and sending sexy emails or buying her sexy undies is fast becoming a no-no.
Just to be clear I should also say that any spontaneous sex is out of the question. For over a year I have been sleeping in another room due to my medical sleep condition. There can be no reason she is not sleeping soundly each night as I never disturb her so 'too tired' should not be one of her excuses - but she used it tonight.
I asked for sex and she point blank refused me. I had to hold her still to get her to tell me why and then I had constantly ask her to look me in the eye when speaking to me. After a firm line of questioning she revealed that she was 'afraid to have sex with me, that I make demands on her that she can't fulfill, that sex disgusts her now and that she feels I will get angry and frustrated during sex.'
Okay I asked for her honesty and got some. There are things I do during sex that the wife does not like - I like to talk dirty and I will ask for oral and anal. I pointed out to her I have never ever forced her to do anything she didn't want to do. She has never given me oral to completion before and she does not really like anal but will let me in sometimes to 'make me happy'. I want to try so many more things with her but asking is a nightmare. I seldom get 'love-making sessions' only cold sex. She wants me to finish any way I can so she can go about her business or go to bed. For the record I am open to giving her oral - she hates this- and if she wants to 'peg me' she is more than welcome !
I told her that we really need to take our marriage seriously and that I will need to work on my issues (it seems my anger is a big thing) but she will need help with her issues too. I said that I felt broken at this stage - meaning that I can no longer put up with things as they are - and we need help. Now I am lost as to where to start looking for the best help - I know some of the people who provide services locally in this regard but I know my wife would not like to admit to them that there was a problem, so I may have to look further afield.
Clergy no probably not. Do you have insurance? A sex counselor could help, after all they have heard of everything. If no insurance call local public health agencies.
Thor your post has given me huge food for thought. I have worked myself to the bone at times because I read articles stating this was a way to make a woman happy - to follow through on plans and the 'difficult things'. Over the years there has been little or no appreciation for the typical 'love gestures' - I can buy her flowers, chocolates, jewels, give her sums of money but it has no affect.
Not sure why a woman would not appreciate the gifts. I can see if there were ‘strings attached’, but certainly not all gifts would be that way. What I mean by strings attached is that you bought them to appease her for something you did. Or you bought them as an exchange, such as “here’s some jewelry.. now you owe me sex”.
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Originally Posted by lonesomegra
If she has been dealing with a problem all this time then these things might not even register. I am not going to paint myself here as an angel - it can take me 5-10 years to finish some jobs - but they do get done in the end.
Now this is, IMHO, completely unacceptable. My husband does that. He started a landscape and deck building project in our back yard. Five years later about 1/3 was done. The yard was a mess and much of it unsafe. I finally hired a contractor to finish part of it. Cost me a pretty penny. Then the rest of it sat for another 5 years. I just gave up, quit using the yard ever. And left the mess when we moved out.
He still does things like that, starts them and then does not finish. The list is very long so I won’t go into it all right now.
I don’t know what projects you are taking 5-10 years t finish. But I do know that it can be very uncomfortable and embarrassing to live in a half-finished place for years.
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Originally Posted by lonesomegra
As for the 'out of context' sex - I have to plead to get that and sending sexy emails or buying her sexy undies is fast becoming a no-no.
Just to be clear I should also say that any spontaneous sex is out of the question. For over a year I have been sleeping in another room due to my medical sleep condition. There can be no reason she is not sleeping soundly each night as I never disturb her so 'too tired' should not be one of her excuses - but she used it tonight.
Not sleeping with your wife can cause a huge rift between the two of you. It cuts out a lot of the non-sexual touch such as snuggling that a couple can have while falling asleep. The less non-sexual touch you have between you, the more your wife will pull away from you. Only being touched for sex is a huge libido killer for women.
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Originally Posted by lonesomegra
I asked for sex and she point blank refused me. I had to hold her still to get her to tell me why and then I had constantly ask her to look me in the eye when speaking to me. After a firm line of questioning she revealed that she was 'afraid to have sex with me, that I make demands on her that she can't fulfill, that sex disgusts her now and that she feels I will get angry and frustrated during sex.'
Well, she has the right to point blank refuse sex. You say you had to hold her still? So you grabbed her and forcefully held her to make her tell you? Um… that’s a deal killer right there. I’d be concerned about having a sexual relationship with someone who did that with me.
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Originally Posted by lonesomegra
Okay I asked for her honesty and got some. There are things I do during sex that the wife does not like - I like to talk dirty and I will ask for oral and anal. I pointed out to her I have never ever forced her to do anything she didn't want to do. She has never given me oral to completion before and she does not really like anal but will let me in sometimes to 'make me happy'. I want to try so many more things with her but asking is a nightmare. I seldom get 'love-making sessions' only cold sex. She wants me to finish any way I can so she can go about her business or go to bed. For the record I am open to giving her oral - she hates this- and if she wants to 'peg me' she is more than welcome !
Well she was very clear. She does not like some of the things you do. But you keep doing them. She feels pressured by that. She probably feels unloved and cared for because you pressure her. It’s unfortunate that she does not like oral sex. I can understand her dislike for anal.. I’m not sure when men started to think that anal sex is something that they have to have or their wife was somehow not sexy enough. I don’t know what all the other things are that you want to try, but you need to accept that you married a very sexually conservative woman.
When you have sex with her, how much foreplay is there? How much just playing, laughing, etc?
When women get cold sexually, it usually means that they are not happy in their relationship. It would help a lot if she would tell you exactly what she needs from you. But it does sound like she does not know how to express it or she’s afraid to tell you.
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Originally Posted by lonesomegra
I told her that we really need to take our marriage seriously and that I will need to work on my issues (it seems my anger is a big thing) but she will need help with her issues too. I said that I felt broken at this stage - meaning that I can no longer put up with things as they are - and we need help. Now I am lost as to where to start looking for the best help - I know some of the people who provide services locally in this regard but I know my wife would not like to admit to them that there was a problem, so I may have to look further afield.
Anger can be a huge problem... it can turn a person dealing with an angry person very cold.
If your wife will not go to MC with you, go yourself to individual counseling. If you change yourself, she will have to change.
I also suggest that you read the books in my signature block under building a passionate marriage and that you and your wife do the exercises that they suggest.
lonesome, your wife needs good therapy from a qualified person with experience dealing with sex abuse survivors.
I suggest you check out aftersilence.org/forum. There is a sub forum for secondary survivors, which is what you are. It at least helps to know you aren't alone or unusual in your predicament. You can learn a lot about what your wife is going through and you can get some good input from a variety of people there.
The only book I know of which is specifically written for secondaries is "Haunted Marriage". It is worth reading.
Your wife can get closer to a normal sexuality, but it will take hard work on her part, and probably will be measured in years not months. Has she revealed to you that some kind of abuse or assault happened? Have you discussed marriage therapy with her? My wife was dead set against marriage therapy because she was frightened of the abuse issue being brought up. You may run into the same kind of fear in your wife.
One thing to consider is that the abuse survivor cannot logically separate the abuse event from the fallout. In other words, if you complain about her difficulties with sex, she may hear it as blaming her for the abuse. Or she may see it as threatening to her self image because she already feels great shame. So acknowledging that the psychological side effects are causing problems is very difficult because that then is linked to the abuse.
You need to concentrate on the relationship side of it, not the abuse or psychological fallout. Your emotional needs are not being met. Your sexual needs are not being met. You desire joy and intimacy through sharing sex with her.
I have to respond to this - making her do things that are not what she wants. This is the worse thing you could do even if she had a strong ego.
I think a woman with a strong ego and no abuse background would not have allowed you to penetrate her anus against her will. She becomes passive and compliant but suffered for it. She is still suffering.
Unfortunately for your wife, her background makes her vulnerable to thinking that she has no right to control access to her body or it's use by another.
Creating a safe accepting environment is essential to sustaining a sexual relationship. If sex is skewed to meeting your needs how can you expect her to desire sex with you?
Would you have sex if she were the only one having pleasure? Would you do acts that you disliked just to give her pleasure.
You say that you assumed she wanted to do theses things. But be honest, you know that that is not true. But is it more that you are able to close your mind to her discomfort as long as you get pleasure?
Thats what happened with the touching the penis thing right? You were able to coerce her to give you pleasure while you could see her dislike.
Your sexual needs - sounds like you are having physical sex to meet your needs without regard to your wife's needs. If you were having intimate loving mutually enjoyable sex, you could bring her out of her shell.
My advice, even if she will not go to therapy then you should go. I really think you are the one who is overlooking very big issues that you need to work on. Forcing her to look at you is like an interrogator not a loving husband.
Sex is not the problem it's the severe dysfunction in your relationship. You point to her as the problem but you're as responsible as she. If you don't see that then things will get worse not better. The accumulation of problems have finally shut her down.
It’s unfortunate that she does not like oral sex. I can understand her dislike for anal.. I’m not sure when men started to think that anal sex is something that they have to have or their wife was somehow not sexy enough. I don’t know what all
When you have sex with her, how much foreplay is there? How much just playing, laughing, etc?
The last time I managed to ejaculate internally during sex was anal. It has been a long time since I have been able to do so in her virgina. Therefore she will let me try, but not often.
In regards to foreplay I could last forever but she bores of it (or I might just be no good at it) easily. Yes I can still make her laugh but I don't think we laugh much during sex or foreplay.
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But it does sound like she does not know how to express it or she’s afraid to tell you.
You are likely very right in this assesment.
[QUOTE=EleGirl;538322]
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I don’t know what projects you are taking 5-10 years t finish. But I do know that it can be very uncomfortable and embarrassing to live in a half-finished place for years.
I am involved in art projects that can take a number of years to finish. I also do DIY and over the years due to me doing shift work, my illness and being unable to employ tradesmen some jobs on the house are still being done 10 years later. One example - I cannot go on a roof because of doctors orders yet I needed to get a TV ariel fixed. It took 4 years of bad reception until I at last got someone who was willing to do the job. Lots of tradesmen promised but never showed up while others would not go onto the roof. The job did get done in the end. Likewise one wall between our neighbours garden and our own took 2 years to build. I painted her bedroom last year thinking it would take a maximum of 4 weeks. It took 8 weeks and now she is waiting for me to put up new shelves. The shelves will get put up but only when I am able for it.
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Well, she has the right to point blank refuse sex. You say you had to hold her still? So you grabbed her and forcefully held her to make her tell you? Um… that’s a deal killer right there. I’d be concerned about having a sexual relationship with someone who did that with me.
One technique I have learned when dealing with my autistic son is that eye contact is really important. I employed this whilst talking to my wife. I HELD MY WIFE IN MY ARMS - what is wrong with that? Every husband has some right to that. If I had not held her she would have run away from me - she is strong spirited enough to break away from me if she wants to and I did not hold her in such a way that she could not. My illness which amongst other things involves weakness on one side and an inability to walk or run fast makes it easy for her to physically break away.
Thats what happened with the touching the penis thing right? You were able to coerce her to give you pleasure while you could see her dislike.
I do not know what you are implying by this statement. I have only ever been allowed by my wife to have sex on her terms. Otherwise I would be a lot more fulfilled by now sexually. Yes there have been times I pushed her to the limit and I may have hurt her but I can only work from the here and now. I forgot, or I felt I was going with my wife's choice that we forget what she said years ago. Now I am only working out that I should not have ignored warning signs.
I only wish she would be more expressive with these matters. I would love to let her have all the pleasure during sex but when I say to her 'you are in charge now, do what you like to me' I get a 'I don't know what to do' or 'I don't know what I want' response this indicates to me that she prefares I take charge when it comes to sex. During sex she gives me little or no indication that she is enjoying herself as she talks little and makes no noises that I can decipher as those of pleasure during intercourse. Sometimes I have detected her making what I think are faces of pleasure at the start but it does not seem to last long and I do not believe she orgasms now during sex.
For me it is not all about sex - I am not a happy person ever - but the next best thing to sex for me is the point when I bring a project to fruition. I have written love poems for my wife, I have bathed her feet when tired, I have texted her messages of love, I have looked after our sick children all night long without sleep. Perhaps these things also have worn her out and made her cold to me, I just don't know, but to me they are part of what I signed up to do. I am proud to say she is my wife.
All's I ask in return is more physical love and real engagement during sex.
I intend to read more books in the meanwhile, but Catherine thank you for your answer. It might not be what I'd like to read but it is another opinion and I respect that.
One technique I have learned when dealing with my autistic son is that eye contact is really important. I employed this whilst talking to my wife. I HELD MY WIFE IN MY ARMS - what is wrong with that? Every husband has some right to that. If I had not held her she would have run away from me - she is strong spirited enough to break away from me if she wants to and I did not hold her in such a way that she could not. My illness which amongst other things involves weakness on one side and an inability to walk or run fast makes it easy for her to physically break away.
I feel that I must comment on this...
Yes - eye contact is very important when speaking with an autistic child because autistic children often have trouble making eye contact and it is a skill that needs to be learned.
OTOH - demanding eye contact "Look at me when I'm speaking to you!" (even if not in those exact words) is a very domineering act. It is not a way to invite communication.
Just my opinion - I think you need to be far more gentle with this woman. The words you use, the things you ask, the noises you make - you may very well be mirroring the abuse she suffered.
Rather than being more demanding - you need to be more inviting. What happens if you give or do something without any strings attached? What happens if you ask permission for things - such as "May I sit next to you and put my arm around you while we watch TV?" instead of assuming some automatic marital right?
I think she needs to learn that you are 'safe'...and that you will always check with her before accidentally straying into something that makes her uncomfortable.
Abused or not? 
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