Duty sex only - Page 11 - Talk About Marriage
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post #151 of 312 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 12:49 AM
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Re: Duty sex only

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I did put my foot down about the kids not sleeping in our bed, and usually they start the night off in their own rooms. But 50% of the time, our youngest (3) ends up in bed with us at some point int he night. She refuses to let anybody watch our kids unless they're immediate family (my parents, her mom and her sister are the only acceptable candidates), and she cannot be negotiated with on this subject.
Just so you know, you are not alone (if that is any consolation, lol). My son is five, and despite all our best efforts, still won't sleep through the night in his own room. He always winds up in our bed at some point. And I have to say, I, too, have a hard time kicking him out. He can be a great snuggle buddy, and it feels comforting having him so close. Except when I get kicked in the balls, of course, lol. If it is a real problem, just stick a pillow in between you and the kid - works for me!

And five years in, my wife *just* started to allow for the possibility of babysitters (at least, those who are not family). We had a next door neighbor girl watch our son for an hour and a half a couple weeks ago so we could duck out for some sushi at a restaurant one block from our house. Bonus - since the girl is only 12 (but has spent a lot of time with our son over the years), we can actually afford her services, lol. Most 'professional' babysitters would just about double the cost of any night out.

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post #152 of 312 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 05:31 AM
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Re: Duty sex only

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That's all well and good, but my wife seriously believes everything is fine with our sex life. When I voice my doubts, she just brushes it off, saying that I watch too much porn and expect her to act like a porn star. Now I admit I watch my fair share of porn, but I know that porn sex and real sex are very different things.

Who knows? Maybe she'll never get back her sex drive. Maybe it's just me? Maybe she'll meet somebody else who lights her fire? I don't know, there's absolutely no way to predict that. But I do know that at this point, our sex life truly is as good as it possibly can be. She cannot be seduced... at least not by me. Giving me a blowjob won't make her feel better about herself after a bad day. I don't buy it that she doesn't love me because she doesn't share her body with me completely. She actually shows me she loves me in many other ways, tells me every single day, and I to her. I think part of it is she's overwhelmed, and I think part of it is she has grown to associate sex with negative feelings somehow. Like every mistake I've made gets lumped into this giant mass that is sitting on top of her sex drive or something.

Here's the thing; about 12-18 months ago, somewhere in there, my wife said she wanted counseling. I dismissed it. She had a friend that was in marriage counseling, and I just thought she was being emotional and wanted to go to counseling because her friend was. Like my wife was almost jealous of her friend for going. I assumed a MC was just a scam artist, telling the woman what she wanted to hear, to validate her feelings, and keep her coming back for more appointments so that the MC can get more $$$$$. The husbands of these women, desperate to make their woman happy so they can get laid, keep forking over money to these guys to keep their wives happy. A very ignorant and narrow minded view, I must admit, but that's what my cynical mind thought at the time. But now that I have done my research, I think maybe we should go. I don't think it'd hurt us at all. I've asked her if she still feels we should go to counseling, 12-18 months later, and she claims that we were just going through a rough spot, and that she thinks we have come out of it on our own just fine. I agree that our relationship is much better than it was; I have certainly made some positive changes in myself, and I can tell that she can see and appreciate that. But I feel like if I suggest counseling now, she'll get pissed because 1. I wasn't willing to go when she brought it up, and 2. because I just want to go to a counselor to talk about something so insignificant as sex.

You people have brought up an interesting point that I really hadn't considered. You say that I have put her needs ahead of my own... and it's true. It's almost like my needs, desires, etc are irrelevant to me. After a particularly bad blowup about a year ago, I really started to listen to what she was saying. I worked very hard to try and change the things about myself that she was unhappy with. I busted my ass trying to meet her needs, going the extra mile to prove to her that things were going to be different. I guess after a year, she feels satisfied with the changes I've made, she tells me time and time again. So now she really doesn't want MC, why? Because I'm meeting her needs. Meanwhile, she's not really meeting mine entirely, and now I'm the one thinking that maybe some intervention might be nice. Funny how that works, isn't it?

The thing I keep coming back to is that, for now, I need to just accept her as she is and my marriage as it is. It's more than just "oh I wish my wife would give me a BJ, cause BJ's are awesome!". It's just a strong desire to have a mutually satisfactory sex life with my wife. It's just not possible right now. And maybe it will never be possible again. But for now, while she's in school, and our kids are so young, I just can't continue to focus on this negativity. She suffers from sexual aversion, and she's trying to work on it, but she's got a million other priorities. I need to just be happy with that for now. Yes, I know she's supposed to put me first, but guess what? We live in an adult world, and that's not always possible. I try to put my wife first as well, but sometimes **** gets in my way too. Sometimes my career causes me to work 14-16 hour days, and I have nothing left when I get home. Sometimes the kids take precedence, because they're little and needy and can't even get a glass of water by themselves. That's just life, that doesn't mean we don't love each other.

I am 35 now, she's 31. I have made a decision that I'm going to wait until I turn 40, and revisit this situation. She'll be done with school, in a career, our kids will be in elementary school and more independent (able to get their own water, lol), and hopefully I'll be making more money than I do now, and be a buff, sexy man. If things haven't improved by then naturally, then it will be time to have some serious talks and intervention. That's only 5 years, and it will go by very fast. I'm not putting my life on hold for 5 years. I have a great life. Good job, great wife, great kids... I really can't complain too much. My wife and I talk about trips we want to take, goals we have for the future, and yes we also have plans for things we'd like to do with our kids. Taking our kids to Disney World doesn't mean our marriage has no romance, in response to whoever said that. It just means we love our kids and wanted to do something fun with them. They'll likely not remember it, they're 3 and 5... but I know my wife and I will never forget that trip, and those amazing memories we made together with our kids. They'll only be kids for so long. In 20 years they'll both be out of the house and on their own (hopefully), and I want to enjoy my time with them, not leave them with grandparents all the time or count down the days until they move out so my wife and I can be alone together again. It's about accepting life as it is, instead of what everybody thinks it should be.

Bottom line; if sex life doesn't improve by the time I'm 40, in 5 years, then it's going to be time to have some hard conversations. I can definitely last that long, it's not like I'm in agony right now, and I don't think she is either. I'm just going to keep trying to improve myself, and our relationship. And if she is unhappy with me and decides to cheat on me or leave me, then as I've said before, that is her problem, not mine, and she was obviously not who I thought she was, and not worth my time.
If you're in no immediate rush, why not try an experiment of giving up the porn completely for a length of time?

I'm not going to pretend to know precisely what you've been through, but as a woman I can say that I bet your wife was very hurt by your initial refusal for therapy. Women don't suggest therapy lightly. They do have some expertise in this over men because inherently women are more comfortable at expressing their feelings. It helps them to let out some of the chaos in their brain and heal, gain perspective. Your reaction likely made her feel like you were dismissing her cry for help.

Let enough time go by, and she'll stop caring, since she'd interpret your refusal as not caring. So, even though you are open to it now, she's probably too resentful to join you. That ship has sailed.

Another thing ...you differentiate between porn sex and sex with her. Do you think that she understands you feel differently about the two and compartmentalize them? Because very few women that I have known are able to conceive, let alone accept such a compartmentalization. Likely all she knows is that you watch porn and likely you expect sex to be like pornstar sex.

"If you deliberately plan on being less than you are capable of being, then I warn you that you'll be unhappy for the rest of your life."

~ Abraham Maslow
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post #153 of 312 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 06:54 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Duty sex only

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If you're in no immediate rush, why not try an experiment of giving up the porn completely for a length of time?

I'm not going to pretend to know precisely what you've been through, but as a woman I can say that I bet your wife was very hurt by your initial refusal for therapy. Women don't suggest therapy lightly. They do have some expertise in this over men because inherently women are more comfortable at expressing their feelings. It helps them to let out some of the chaos in their brain and heal, gain perspective. Your reaction likely made her feel like you were dismissing her cry for help.

Let enough time go by, and she'll stop caring, since she'd interpret your refusal as not caring. So, even though you are open to it now, she's probably too resentful to join you. That ship has sailed.

Another thing ...you differentiate between porn sex and sex with her. Do you think that she understands you feel differently about the two and compartmentalize them? Because very few women that I have known are able to conceive, let alone accept such a compartmentalization. Likely all she knows is that you watch porn and likely you expect sex to be like pornstar sex.
I truly think she understands my relationship with porn. It's never really been an issue at all, we've never once argued about porn. She's caught me jacking off to porn a couple times, and she just kinda laughed and walked away. She says her brother had a porn addiction, and she can tell that it's really not a big deal with me. We used to watch porn together before the kids to get warmed up. Now, watching porn would probably make her sick to her stomach.

I truly regret not going to MC when she brought it up. I thought it would just make us fight more, and end our marriage. I just kinda thought marriage counselors play on the woman's insecurities to keep them coming back, and since their husbands just want to get laid and keep their wives happy, so they keep paying this guy to tell them what a piece of **** they are.
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post #154 of 312 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 07:12 AM
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Re: Duty sex only

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I truly think she understands my relationship with porn. It's never really been an issue at all, we've never once argued about porn. She's caught me jacking off to porn a couple times, and she just kinda laughed and walked away. She says her brother had a porn addiction, and she can tell that it's really not a big deal with me. We used to watch porn together before the kids to get warmed up. Now, watching porn would probably make her sick to her stomach.

I truly regret not going to MC when she brought it up. I thought it would just make us fight more, and end our marriage. I just kinda thought marriage counselors play on the woman's insecurities to keep them coming back, and since their husbands just want to get laid and keep their wives happy, so they keep paying this guy to tell them what a piece of **** they are.
I would seriously consider Satya's suggestion if I were you. Are you familiar with this site?

https://yourbrainonporn.com/

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #155 of 312 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 10:18 AM
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Re: Duty sex only

You seem to have a very strong negative opinion/outlook about your wife's sexuality. You don't care about the quantity of Sex but more the quality? What if she is doing the best she can. What if she is doing what she likes. It seems she is happy with her Sex life and you are the one reading her facial expressions and critiquing her enjoyment based off of how you think she should look and act. But she initiates, so she obviously likes and wants to have Sex with you. It's hurtful to assume it's duty sex and she is just checking you off a list. Why can't you realize and think that she initiates because she wants to have sex with you, and that she enjoys it the way she knows how to enjoy it.
You are putting these terrible thoughts in your head that she thinks these things about you but it's not coming from her, it's coming from you. It's actually messed up to think about it. You need to relax. She loves you, she loves to have Sex with you. She is a busy women who makes time to have sex with you. Sorry it's not the quality your looking for, but she is doing what is comfortable to her. You can't judge her reaction to Sex and how she acts and assume it's because she doesn't like sex, its duty sex, your a checklist, and she will leave you when the kids grow up. That's crazy.
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post #156 of 312 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 10:57 AM
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Re: Duty sex only

Katie, let's revisit in 4 or 5 years when her career pressure and kid activities make once weekly become once monthly...

Because it's comfortable to her, and tough luck if he disagrees.
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post #157 of 312 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 01:17 PM
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Re: Duty sex only

A much more productive experiment would be to would be for Podium Boy to systematically remove his own sexual desire. Right thought patterns, right diet, and the self control not to talk about what you are doing. It is amazing what happens when you are no longer begging, and she has no lever to keep you wrapped around her finger. Get your power back.
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post #158 of 312 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 02:17 PM
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Re: Duty sex only

I spoke to my husband about this, I posted earlier on the thread.

He explained that work is stressing him, he feels tired and when he feels like it, I am usually tired so he doesnt want to burden me.

I told him I miss all the stuff we did early on. Showering together, midday sex, morning sex, any sex really. He said he missed it too but feels too exhausted at times. I promised to be less of a sex pest if he promised to make an effort.

It is working. Sex 3 times this week and counting! I think talking is a great thing, as long as everyone is really honest!

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post #159 of 312 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 02:18 PM
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Re: Duty sex only

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A much more productive experiment would be to would be for Podium Boy to systematically remove his own sexual desire. Right thought patterns, right diet, and the self control not to talk about what you are doing. It is amazing what happens when you are no longer begging, and she has no lever to keep you wrapped around her finger. Get your power back.
I did this myself. I don't recommend it. Though I really don't have a better alternative, unfortunately.

Of course, I would have to know what you mean by 'right thought patterns', because I have no idea if my thought patterns were 'right' or not, though I certainly wouldn't characterize them as 'right.' More like 'effective.'

The problem is, I turned myself off to the point that I was/am pretty ambivalent about sex (both with my wife, and in general), which is clear to my wife, so even if she does feel like approaching, she often doesn't. She doesn't want to put herself 'out there' sexually/intimately for someone who appears uninterested or recalcitrant with regard to her advances.

While you can say (as I have), "serves her right!", what it mostly accomplishes is ensuring that the dead bedroom stays dead.
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post #160 of 312 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 02:19 PM
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Re: Duty sex only

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A much more productive experiment would be to would be for Podium Boy to systematically remove his own sexual desire. Right thought patterns, right diet, and the self control not to talk about what you are doing. It is amazing what happens when you are no longer begging, and she has no lever to keep you wrapped around her finger. Get your power back.
It's called "ABC sex"

(Anniversary, Birthday, and Christmas)
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post #161 of 312 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 02:23 PM
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Re: Duty sex only

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Eeyore doesn't do it for most women.
Hahahaha...

I actually (unfortunately) garnered the nickname 'Eeyore' (actually coined by one of our mutual friends, embarrassingly enough) when my sex life was circling the drain. So not good on so many levels...

I wish I could go back, knowing then what I know now...

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post #162 of 312 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 02:23 PM
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Re: Duty sex only

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It is working. Sex 3 times this week and counting! I think talking is a great thing, as long as everyone is really honest!


Big congrats, hopefully it is not a blip and you guys are able to maintain at a good level. You tied my 2017 year to date total this week alone lol
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post #163 of 312 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 02:33 PM
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Re: Duty sex only

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Big congrats, hopefully it is not a blip and you guys are able to maintain at a good level. You tied my 2017 year to date total this week alone lol
Wow, three times in 3 1/2 months? No wonder you are frustrated. I thought you had posted a few months ago about it just being twice a week.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #164 of 312 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 02:38 PM
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Re: Duty sex only

@Dazedconfuzed , I'd be happy to discuss this further and how it worked for me but it would need a new thread to not hijack this thread and, I don't think many people are that interested.
I was just saying that if you are going to invest a month in an "experiment", I wouldn't go the princess route. It rewards negative behavior. What I would do is make changes in myself. Because changing yourself is much easier and more effective than trying to change someone else. And it doesn't have to be lowering desire. Add excitement, try a dread game, BE "interesting". The choices are endless. In most cases unsatisfactory sex lives occur when one partner isn't interested in the other. If what you are doing isn't working. Try some thing else.
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post #165 of 312 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 02:49 PM
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Re: Duty sex only

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@Dazedconfuzed , I'd be happy to discuss this further and how it worked for me but it would need a new thread to not hijack this thread and, I don't think many people are that interested.
I was just saying that if you are going to invest a month in an "experiment", I wouldn't go the princess route. It rewards negative behavior. What I would do is make changes in myself. Because changing yourself is much easier and more effective than trying to change someone else. And it doesn't have to be lowering desire. Add excitement, try a dread game, BE "interesting". The choices are endless. In most cases unsatisfactory sex lives occur when one partner isn't interested in the other. If what you are doing isn't working. Try some thing else.
Thanks for the clarification. I whole-heartedly endorse what you write here. I definitely didn't do many/most of those things.

And as a caution to those new to the concept, I absolutely think 'dread game' is something men should always have going on (preferably as a natural expression of who they are, not as part of a personal agenda that attempts to 'change' someone), but the dynamics at play really need to be thoroughly understood in order for it not to backfire. Properly implemented, it makes everyone feel excited, attracted, and happy. Improperly implemented, it can lead to a loss of respect and provoke contempt (and thereby further kill any attraction that may have still been there). Just my two-cents...
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