Duty sex only - Page 4 - Talk About Marriage
Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

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post #46 of 272 (permalink) Old 04-06-2017, 12:56 PM
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Re: Duty sex only

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"and i know more about a clitoris and vulva than a mechanic knows a car."
I liked that quote.
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post #47 of 272 (permalink) Old 04-06-2017, 01:01 PM
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Re: Duty sex only

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I think I've really been trained to think of sex as something negative for my wife. Like last year on her 30th birthday, we went all out. Kids at grandparents, hotel room, nice dinner, went to a concert she likes. After we got back to the hotel, she went to the restroom, and I just went to sleep. She seemed surprised that I went to sleep instead of having kidless hotel sex. It was then that I realized, I just subconsciously assumed that since it was HER birthday instead of mine, that we wouldn't be having sex. I was trying to do something nice for her, by letting her sleep for an entire night with no chance of the kids waking her up, and no pestering by me to let me use her vagina to masturbate with. It never once occurred to me that she might want to have sex on her birthday, in a hotel, with the kids gone, after a success romantic date... that was kind of a wake up call for me. It never occurred to me that she might have been in the mood.
Again you are assuming that YOU are that problem. She knew what was going to happen, the arrangements for the kids, the hotel room. If she wasn't in the mood she would have told you. Weren't you mad that she didn't wake you up? My wife tried to play that game to..."well you were sleeping and I didn't want to wake you up". It's just still another excuse not to have sex. Let me guess, she wasn't the least bit upset that no sex happened that night. You both are contributing to the problem, but since sex is so infrequent that you are now conditioned to think nothing is happening, it's become a real problem she is to blame for. She has to understand that being a refuser isn't ok.

It's all territory I'm way to familiar with.

"I've paid double for every transgression I've ever made and that motel and that boat are little to ask for"
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post #48 of 272 (permalink) Old 04-06-2017, 01:09 PM
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Re: Duty sex only

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AMy wife tried to play that game to..."well you were sleeping and I didn't want to wake you up". It's just still another excuse not to have sex.
lol, I was literally having the same conversation about this exact topic a few days ago.

Really, a great point another member here made a while back as they were looking at their sex life and why it had become so infrequent with their H, they realized that when it came to sex, she found she got into the habit of always looking for reason why to have sex like it needed justification. This made it much easier to just go with any excuse possible. She changed her mindset, and instead took the POV of "why shouldn't we have sex", and many of those excuses went away.
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post #49 of 272 (permalink) Old 04-06-2017, 01:12 PM
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Re: Duty sex only

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Agreed. I don't vacuum, do dishes etc because I want to get laid, I do them because it's my house too, and because I want my wife to feel less stress. But you're right, there is very little I can do about this in the near future. Survival mode... that is perfect.

I really don't want my wife to have so much on her plate. She didn't decide to go to college until she was 28, with 2 very young kids. I was happy that she finally decided she wanted to do this. Before, she worked in a unfulfilling job at a pharmacy. I try to do as much as a possibly can to ease this poor woman's load.

I suppose all I can really do is ride this out and hope that things pick up down the road, when she has less on her plate. For now, I really have stopped pestering her for sex, and am just trying to be a good supportive husband instead. We basically only have sex when she initiates. My desire to get laid has been eclipsed by my desire to not be a groveling, pestering, needy little *****. We have a date night this weekend, babysitter lined up, but not for an all-nighter. I'm not going to entertain the idea of sex, but I am going to try to make it a good night for her.
I'm glad to hear you realize that this is way too much for a mom with young kids.

I don't think you should "ride it out." I believe that it's very important in marriage to agree on how the other spends their time and what they commit themselves to, because it does affect the marriage, as you're seeing. If your wife is continuing to work after you've asked her not to for the sake of your family, she's acting independently (doing something without regard to your feelings). You should both agree to what she has committed to doing. I get that she loves her job, but in addition to having young children, and going to school, it is simply too much right now. I think you two need to learn how to work interdependently and make decisions together.

I'd tell her that the current situation isn't working for you and the family, and that something must give. Either school gets put on hold or the job, and only if she's able to do one or the other while making time for 15 hours a week with you to meet the most important emotional needs in marriage: intimate conversation, affection, recreational companionship, and sex. She's not passionate about sex with you because there is no time to meet the other needs that most women need in order to feel in love with their husbands, and that leads to a stronger desire for sex.

You simply can't squeeze blood from a turnip. There's nothing more she can give here and your marriage, which should be priority number 1, is at the bottom of a very long list for her. Even for moms who devote ALL their time to their young children, husbands can feel like they are no longer priority number 1. For a mom who has other competing interests, she's likely feeling guilt from being away from her kids so much that she can't possibly put you before them right now.
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post #50 of 272 (permalink) Old 04-06-2017, 01:31 PM
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Re: Duty sex only

I don't have time to read this whole thread but really wanted to jump in.

OP, you say you can't get away without the kids because babysitting. You say you just took preschool aged kids to Disney World, who won't remember their trip to Disney world by the way. You and your wife get out without the kids once a month and the kids typically sleep with you.

You are not longer in a romantic relationship. You are now in a parenting team and keep pleasant company with each other. You each routinely take one for the team. You have placed the kids so far up the priority list your marriage is falling apart.

First priority, get those kids out of your bed!

Second, vacations with kids should be low budget and low key until your marriage is fulfilling enough that you each are very satisfied.

Third, Do not deprioritize sex. It is important. You can have a good marriage with decent sex, but you can't have a good marriage with lousy duty sex and you can't have a great marriage unless you're having great sex. Sex is a priority which means you each do what you need to do in order to enjoy sex.

Fourth, if you're convincing your wife to cut her work hours and she is resistant, reassign that money to husband and wife adventures. Your kids will be much better off with low key vacations and happy affectionate parents, then uptight stressed out, distant and angry parents.

Lastly, your wife suffered trauma to her lady parts when she gave birth. She had no idea what was going to happen down there. She was ambivalent about her lady bits prior to babies but now she isn't very happy with the 'down there.' I say this because men need to understand it is rarely that they are lousy at it, it is rarely that she doesn't like it, it is almost always because she doesn't like IT, her lady parts, her damaged vagina and perineum. You can help her, if she isn't too squeamish talking about it, but it sounds like she is. So talking about sex is what she first needs to grow comfortable with. If she googled sex aversion she is worried enough that her comfort level might be malleable.

Sum it up, put your marriage first!

"Some women are blessed with multi-orgasmic ability for a reason and I'm damn sure not going to waste a blessing" ~FrenchFry


"Vaginas are tricky creatures." ~Lucy999
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post #51 of 272 (permalink) Old 04-06-2017, 01:32 PM
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Re: Duty sex only

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....married 9 years, together 11, and have 2 young kids....

Typical story; great sex while we were dating, honeymoon phase, throughout her first pregnancy, right up until our first was born. Things tapered off a little bit, but I still feel our sex life was as good as it can be with a new baby. Then our 2nd/youngest was born 3.5 years ago. .....Suddenly, me pestering her for sex just put me in the same category as the needy children...... I knew she was stressed, I was happy to be getting anything. I just figured this was a phase that would pass.

But a couple years ago it actually occurred to me; my wife gets no enjoyment out of sex. There's no passion, no foreplay, nothing. The more I brought this up, the more annoyed she got. Oral sex is completely off the table, giving or receiving. She has absolutely no desire to have any foreplay at all.

.....She still allows me to have sex with her 1-2 times a week, except during shark week.

.......She even initiates sex with me maybe 1/3 of the time, which confuses me even more. Why does she initiate if she doesn't want to do it? She then proceeds to take her clothes off like she's at a doctor's office, gives me a hand job just to make sure I get hard, and then away I go. Maybe 1 out of every 4 times she makes any noise at all... it's actually pretty awkward....

...As soon as we're (I'm) done, there is no pillow talk. It's just right back to "Tomorrow I have to get up early and get this done and get the kids ready and yada yada yada...". Any attempt to address the sex we just had and her lack of enthusiasm is met with immediate defensiveness, and telling me I'm putting too much pressure on her.

....She is such a kind, loving wife... until it comes to sex. She doesn't think our sex life is an appropriate thing to talk about. It's like she has a completely G-Rated mind. She gets easily offended if other people even talk about sex or make dirty jokes. The kids sleep with us most nights, and I think that's her way of avoiding intimacy, even though she denies this. I found a couple articles in her search history (I'll explain why I was looking in a second) about how to overcome sexual aversion and how to get back her sex drive as a mother of 2 young kids.....
It is amazing how much insight you have and yet how little you understand what is happening.

First, to answer the big question.

Why does she initiate if she doesn't want to do it?

Because she loves you, loves being married to you and values you as a husband and father to your children. She knows there is a problem, doesn't feel comfortable talking about it, and yet she is looking up articles on how to try to regain her libido. SHE IS TRYING TO BE ALL SHE CAN BE AND TO BE A GOOD WIFE, but the deck is kind of stacked against her and you aren't helping make it easier.

A minor point. "...gives me a hand job just to make sure I get hard, ..." Whether you believe it or not, that is a form of foreplay! It might not be the edging or fantasy foreplay you want, but it is foreplay.

As a man who was in a Sex Starved Marriage, but got it turned around the following is probably more huge than you understand. there is no pillow talk. It's just right back to "Tomorrow I have to get up early and get this done and get the kids ready and yada yada yada...".

Many (not all) women have as either a primary or secondary love language (Chapman's 5 Love Languages) the love language of "quality time." Quality time is having someone to listen to them talk and share their concerns and experiences with. They are "venting" but asking for empathy, sort like your post, so you should understand. The "yada, yada, yada" when she is trying to have some quality time with you, just screams out that you are probably not giving her the "quality time" she needs to feel loved and cherished.

There are thousands of men out there in truly sex starved marriages that would give their all to have a wife, that gave them sex maybe 3 to 6 times a month, initiated about 1/3rd of the time, made noises (hopefully pleasant) about 1/4 of the time, touches their penis to arouse them (as opposed to being a dead fish, thinking of England) and was a good wife and mother to their children, even if the passion factor wasn't up there. COUNT YOUR BLESSINGS.

Now lets get to the deck being stack against her.

Quote:
married 9 years
Ever heard of the 7-year itch? Your marriage is no longer in the early honeymoon phase.

Quote:
2 young kids
Quote:
me pestering her for sex just put me in the same category as the needy children...... I knew she was stressed,
Quote:
There's no passion, no foreplay, nothing. The more I brought this up, the more annoyed she got.
Quote:
The kids sleep with us most nights,
Quote:
telling me I'm putting too much pressure on her.
Again, it is amazing how well you understand so many of the issues and yet.....you don't.

I would suggest that you sit down with your wife outside the bedroom, once the kids are asleep and talk to her. Tell her that you now are beginning to understand that you are now part of the problem in your sexual relations with your wife. Apologize to her for being part of the problem and not making her feel as loved and cherished as she deserves and for being greedy and needy and putting pressure on her.

Tell her that you are committed to change yourself so that you can be a better husband, but you will need her help to reinforce your changes. Tell her that you would like the two of you to figure out some way to get marriage counseling so that you can change yourself and so that the two of you can strengthen your marriage.

I was in a sex starved marriage. You are not. My wife and I needed the help of a Sex Therapist, you just need a good marriage counselor and some time to strengthen your marriage.

You really need to read Chapman's 5 Languages of Love and Glover's No More Mr. Nice Guy.

Good luck.
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post #52 of 272 (permalink) Old 04-06-2017, 01:39 PM
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Re: Duty sex only

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Originally Posted by Jessica38 View Post

You simply can't squeeze blood from a turnip. There's nothing more she can give here and your marriage, which should be priority number 1, is at the bottom of a very long list for her. Even for moms who devote ALL their time to their young children, husbands can feel like they are no longer priority number 1. For a mom who has other competing interests, she's likely feeling guilt from being away from her kids so much that she can't possibly put you before them right now.
Hmmm...I'm not so sure. If the time is devoted to school is causing her marriage to fail, maybe that should be put on hold. I'm guessing that isn't the cause though. She established that time with her husband and mutually acceptable intimacy with her husband is not a priority and she forces her H to accept it to the extreme that her H believes a normal sex life would be an imposition to her. This is a problem she created and only she can resolve. Again, it's not ok to be a refuser. She's settled in her relationship, she's going to school like she wanted, she's married and is a mom like she wanted...everything is great...for HER. The problem is that she is making life hell for her H. She knows this but doesn't care, it's not her priority. She's not going to change anything unless her H gets frustrated enough that he files.

"I've paid double for every transgression I've ever made and that motel and that boat are little to ask for"
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post #53 of 272 (permalink) Old 04-06-2017, 03:12 PM
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Re: Duty sex only

To oversimplify: Both genders sometimes take their spouse for granted. What they neglect tends to be different because what their spouse wants from them tends to be different. But the mechanism is the same. One spouse focuses too much on job or kids or charity work while the other keeps asking for conversation or quality time or acts of service or sex, and keep getting refuses (because job or kids or outside activities are more important "for now"). Unhappy spouse is just supposed to do without until denying spouse feels like addressing their need. Then the denying spouse is shocked when 5 or 10 or 15 years later the unhappy spouse files for divorce.

As I say over and over again: single most important thing you can do for your kids is to stay happily married to your kids' other parent. More important that earning more money or what you feed them or helping them with their homework or doing the laundry or keeping the house clean. Because their other parent filing for divorce has a good chance to undo all the good you were trying to do by feeding and clothing and cleaning the kids.

That assumes your spouse is not a narcissistic jerk. If they are, then stop worrying about having sex or conversation or spending time with them and figure out your plan for divorce.

When you can see it coming, duck!
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post #54 of 272 (permalink) Old 04-06-2017, 04:26 PM
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Re: Duty sex only

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This too shall pass. Seriously. She's busy, she's tired, she's doing the best she can to make you happy and your not. She's exhausted. Right now sex isn't a priority to her. People have different needs. She knows it's important to you, so she does it. She sounds amazing to me.
When someone is doing the best they can during a hard time and it's met with un-appreciation or "not good enough", it will never end good. She will become resentful.
My advice... let it go. She's a wife, mother, student, and worker that's insane. Love her, appreciate her, support her and get through this little bump in your marriage stronger. If you push her too much it will cause resentment and your relationship will break.
Many men would kill to have a wife like yours.
Yes, considering her work load, she is doing great. But her work load, and the hard time they are in, is being inflicted upon them by her. She is choosing to work, go to school, and raise children all at once. She's pursuing too much at the same time, which is causing her to lose focus of what's really important. Your spouse should never get knocked down the priority list, your other responsibilities should.

I second the other posters in saying that co-sleeping with your children is a very unhealthy practice. That needs to stop.

As a mother, I eat stress for breakfast. - Megan Conley

I don't trust words. I even question actions. But I hardly ever doubt patterns.
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post #55 of 272 (permalink) Old 04-06-2017, 05:04 PM
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Re: Duty sex only

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To oversimplify: Both genders sometimes take their spouse for granted. What they neglect tends to be different because what their spouse wants from them tends to be different. But the mechanism is the same. One spouse focuses too much on job or kids or charity work while the other keeps asking for conversation or quality time or acts of service or sex, and keep getting refuses (because job or kids or outside activities are more important "for now"). Unhappy spouse is just supposed to do without until denying spouse feels like addressing their need. Then the denying spouse is shocked when 5 or 10 or 15 years later the unhappy spouse files for divorce.
The interesting thing here, where it almost becomes a catch 22, it is easiest to take for granted those who provide you the most stability/security. So let's say you have been the rock for your W. Over time she knows she can always count on you. What can happen since she always expect you to be there for her, you become less of a priority (whether or not it is meant to be done in a harmful manner). Combine that with a situation where your priorities now differ from hers, and you are left with some unintended consequences (i.e. at the bottom of t eh food chain). You do everything to be the best spouse, which then leads you to becoming less of a priority lol. This probably goes along with the suggestion you see at times of doing a 180 to hopefully shake your SO out of this pattern. Now of course this is gender neutral, so you can swap roles.
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post #56 of 272 (permalink) Old 04-06-2017, 05:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Duty sex only

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Again you are assuming that YOU are that problem. She knew what was going to happen, the arrangements for the kids, the hotel room. If she wasn't in the mood she would have told you. Weren't you mad that she didn't wake you up? My wife tried to play that game to..."well you were sleeping and I didn't want to wake you up". It's just still another excuse not to have sex. Let me guess, she wasn't the least bit upset that no sex happened that night. You both are contributing to the problem, but since sex is so infrequent that you are now conditioned to think nothing is happening, it's become a real problem she is to blame for. She has to understand that being a refuser isn't ok.

It's all territory I'm way to familiar with.
Well, it actually wasn't that big of a confrontation... we just had sex the next day, which was her actual birthday. I have to say, that was probably the low point of our sex lives, last year. Since then, we've had some really good conversations, and she has been making more of an effort for me, and I have been making more of an effort to satisfy her needs. There have been a couple times in the last few months that we have had what I would call good sex, where she surprised me by getting really into it. I hadn't seen that side of her much in the last couple years. But then the next time we'd have sex, it'd be back to the same old same old. Maybe with some work, it will get better. I just know the one thing I need to do is stop whining about it, just be frank and ask her what she thinks it would take for her to enjoy sex again. Marriage is a lot of work. People always tell you that when you first get married, but you have no idea what that really means until your in the thick of it.

I'm very grateful that my wife has as much sex with me as she does. Usually she doesn't turn down my initiations, or if she does, she'll usually say "tonight isn't a good night because I have a bunch of homework, could we put it off until tomorrow?" This takes away from the spontaneity of it, but is not something that actually bothers me. I am happy that she is willing to work with me on it. I'd just like to get her a little more involved in our sex life. I know, most of you are now saying "leave the poor woman alone, you horny bastard!" I don't disagree! I really do try to be a good husband, because I want to be, because she deserves it. And I really do think that she loves me equally, and she works really hard to be a great wife. It has been very beneficial for me to have these conversations with you people, and to read all your comments. I really don't have anybody in my life I can have a constructive conversation about this. As previously stated, I can't really talk to any of my friends about it. Perhaps I should've come to this site a year ago, would've saved us a lot of arguments.
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post #57 of 272 (permalink) Old 04-06-2017, 05:52 PM
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Re: Duty sex only

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I just know the one thing I need to do is stop whining about it, just be frank and ask her what she thinks it would take for her to enjoy sex again.
That's a really good start.
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post #58 of 272 (permalink) Old 04-06-2017, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Duty sex only

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I don't have time to read this whole thread but really wanted to jump in.

OP, you say you can't get away without the kids because babysitting. You say you just took preschool aged kids to Disney World, who won't remember their trip to Disney world by the way. You and your wife get out without the kids once a month and the kids typically sleep with you.

You are not longer in a romantic relationship. You are now in a parenting team and keep pleasant company with each other. You each routinely take one for the team. You have placed the kids so far up the priority list your marriage is falling apart.

First priority, get those kids out of your bed!

Second, vacations with kids should be low budget and low key until your marriage is fulfilling enough that you each are very satisfied.

Third, Do not deprioritize sex. It is important. You can have a good marriage with decent sex, but you can't have a good marriage with lousy duty sex and you can't have a great marriage unless you're having great sex. Sex is a priority which means you each do what you need to do in order to enjoy sex.

Fourth, if you're convincing your wife to cut her work hours and she is resistant, reassign that money to husband and wife adventures. Your kids will be much better off with low key vacations and happy affectionate parents, then uptight stressed out, distant and angry parents.

Lastly, your wife suffered trauma to her lady parts when she gave birth. She had no idea what was going to happen down there. She was ambivalent about her lady bits prior to babies but now she isn't very happy with the 'down there.' I say this because men need to understand it is rarely that they are lousy at it, it is rarely that she doesn't like it, it is almost always because she doesn't like IT, her lady parts, her damaged vagina and perineum. You can help her, if she isn't too squeamish talking about it, but it sounds like she is. So talking about sex is what she first needs to grow comfortable with. If she googled sex aversion she is worried enough that her comfort level might be malleable.

Sum it up, put your marriage first!
I would say we have a date night once a month. I wouldn't say we're not romantic, but agree that it sometimes feels more like a roommate situation. We've both acknowledged this, and agree this is not what we want. We try to kiss each other passionately everyday, not just the peck on the lips in the morning before I head to work. After the kids go to bed, we watch TV together and talk about our lives. We laugh, we're playful with each other, we're generally on each other's side and we don't fight that often, but often enough to show that we care.

I have actually been putting my foot down about the kids getting out of our bed, and she agreed. Last night they slept in their own rooms all night long, and it was GLORIOUS! I slept all night, and didn't get kicked in the balls multiple times by my 5 year old, whose feet are a perfect ball-kicking level. We actually can't have sex for about another week, due to my wife's recent visit to the dermatologist (like I said before, nothing major at all), but it was nice to just lay there and talk. Hopefully we can stick to this, I told her I don't think it's good for our marriage to share the bed with our kids, and she agreed.

As far as romantic vacations, we are going to be going to a (currently unknown at this point) caribbean island resort next January. A company that I do a lot of business with as a customer send about 2,000 people per year on this trip. From what I understand transportation, food/drinks and accommodations are free, and we're just in charge of getting to the airport. My friend went on the same trip for the same company this past winter, and he said there was no catch. No sales pitches, no mandatory meetings, no sitting around in focus groups talking about work... he said it was basically just he and his wife, drinking, eating, being lazy and having sex all week. Which is exactly what we need, but unfortunately it's not for another 9 months. We'll make it, though!
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post #59 of 272 (permalink) Old 04-06-2017, 06:23 PM
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Re: Duty sex only

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Originally Posted by podiumboy View Post
I just know the one thing I need to do is stop whining about it, just be frank and ask her what she thinks it would take for her to enjoy sex again.
Yes, be direct. Tell her what you need, and ask her what she needs. Man up and stop beating around the bush.

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I know, most of you are now saying "leave the poor woman alone, you horny bastard!" I don't disagree! I really do try to be a good husband, because I want to be, because she deserves it.
Dude, stop thinking of your desires as not being important. Allowing your wife to take on demanding, unnecessary responsibilities at the expense of your marriage is not being a good husband. If your own needs aren't being met properly, that cripples your ability to meet the needs of others, and fulfill your responsibilities.

A good husband makes sure that his own needs are met by his wife, and that his wife's needs are being properly met by him. This ensures that your relationship and marriage remain strong. Which allows you to properly take care of your children, and the needs of the household in general.

As a mother, I eat stress for breakfast. - Megan Conley

I don't trust words. I even question actions. But I hardly ever doubt patterns.

Last edited by BioFury; 04-06-2017 at 06:39 PM.
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post #60 of 272 (permalink) Old 04-06-2017, 06:57 PM
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Re: Duty sex only

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Originally Posted by BioFury View Post
Yes, be direct. Tell her what you need, and ask her what she needs. Man up and stop beating around the bush.



Dude, stop thinking of your desires as not being important. Allowing your wife to take on demanding, unnecessary responsibilities at the expense of your marriage is not being a good husband. If your own needs aren't being met properly, that cripples your ability to meet the needs of others, and fulfill your responsibilities.

A good husband makes sure that his own needs are met by his wife, and that his wife's needs are being properly met by him. This ensures that your relationship and marriage remain strong. Which allows you to properly take care of your children, and the needs of the household in general.

This!

"Some women are blessed with multi-orgasmic ability for a reason and I'm damn sure not going to waste a blessing" ~FrenchFry


"Vaginas are tricky creatures." ~Lucy999
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