Thoughts on this - Page 107 - Talk About Marriage
Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

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post #1591 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-02-2017, 06:57 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Thoughts on this

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@alexm: So, how was the weekend? Are you still feeling that the trend is positive?
@wild jade - not thread jacking, s'okay!

Same old, same old this weekend, but I didn't mind. I wasn't overly enthusiastic (but not UNenthusiastic, either), but she was.

Same 'initiation' style - hopped into bed naked. So I didn't screw around or wait this time, just straight to oral on her (well, not that direct, lots of kissing around her thighs and other areas to get her warmed up first. I know better!). Within 20 seconds of getting to her clit, she came. My turn for a couple of minutes, then to PIV, where she came again. Pretty straight forward stuff.

Then she rolled over and grabbed her book and read for 20 minutes.

No complaints.

"Every time I read your posts about your wife I want to swallow strychnine."
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post #1592 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-02-2017, 08:39 AM
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Thoughts on this

Sounds like a functioning relationship to me
You mention on another thread that sex is not really a need for your wife. Do you know how long it would take her until she misses it? I wondered that about my wife but never really knew (or had the balls) to find out. Well the balls were the problem.

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post #1593 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-02-2017, 09:13 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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@Hope1964 Ya, for a long time science proved that men were much smarter than women. And there was tons of evidence to prove this scientific fact that everyone knew. Including the fact that there were more men in schools and they got much higher grades, more successful positions, differences in the brain. You name it!

Of course those who challenged this view were just being typical women, emotionally driven, illogical creatures that can't grasp science.!
I never said anything about science. I don't believe statistics prove squat. I said what my OPINION is.

You can argue all you want, you won't change my opinion, sorry! Men and women are different, and there are many many things that can be said about them GENERALLY because of those differences. I'm certainly not arguing that that means ALL men or ALL women are a certain way. I just think it's ridiculous to dismiss the gender based differences simply because they're gender based, and I think they're often a useful starting point for solving problems.

People don't get a free pass to cheat just because their marriage sucks.

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post #1594 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-02-2017, 12:24 PM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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LOL, Buddy. Who said that women's sexuality was exactly like men's? Not me. Not anyone.

In fact the scientific study you are referring to, one difference is clear. Men are much more rigid and women are much more fluid.

So tell me, are you going to handwave at a thorough analysis of a whole pile of scientific studies because they challenge some of the myths you hold most dear?
It's always good to know that the person you're debating with is giving the your points serious consideration (I'm guessing that's what 'LOL' means, since every reply of yours to me seems to start out with that).

What myths do you suppose that I hold dear?

I've said that women sometimes don't know how their own sexuality works (supported by @inmyprime's reference) and that women's sexuality is (generally) more complex that that of men.

I suspect that you'll respond with some personal anecdotes, but the plural of anecdote is not data.

Any studies you know of suggesting that women know more (or the same) about how their sexuality works than men? Or that women's sexuality is simpler (or the same) as men's?
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post #1595 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-02-2017, 12:41 PM
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Re: Thoughts on this

I don't really understand why studies are often completely dismissed out of hand. I get that they are not 'holy scriptures' and shouldn't be treated as such. But it's a good idea to treat them at least for what they are which is imperfect, but certainly better than personal anecdotes.
It's not a black & white thing once again but with some shades of grey (less than 50 :-)

I do totally sympathise and agree there are always exceptions and if you feel you don't fit any of these criteria, I completely understand why you would feel this way about those studies. That doesn't make them completely useless though.
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post #1596 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-02-2017, 06:29 PM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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It's always good to know that the person you're debating with is giving the your points serious consideration (I'm guessing that's what 'LOL' means, since every reply of yours to me seems to start out with that).

What myths do you suppose that I hold dear?

I've said that women sometimes don't know how their own sexuality works (supported by @inmyprime's reference) and that women's sexuality is (generally) more complex that that of men.

I suspect that you'll respond with some personal anecdotes, but the plural of anecdote is not data.

Any studies you know of suggesting that women know more (or the same) about how their sexuality works than men? Or that women's sexuality is simpler (or the same) as men's?
I posted a whole book reviewing the scientific literature on the topic. Which concludes, btw, that there's a lot of myths about women's sexuality, particularly some of the "truisms" slung around TAM about the way we are wired.

Do you actually want to explore the scientific literature? Or do you just want to reinforce your preexisting biases?
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post #1597 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 06:08 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Sounds like a functioning relationship to me
You mention on another thread that sex is not really a need for your wife. Do you know how long it would take her until she misses it? I wondered that about my wife but never really knew (or had the balls) to find out. Well the balls were the problem.

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No doubt it functions, yes, but the whole purpose of this exercise is to try and veer it back to a course that it functions in a way that we both are comfortable with.

As is always the case when dealing with one partner who is LD (or rather, very far off the other persons own desire level), the relationship ends up working the way they want it to. It becomes 'lowest common denominator', rather than something equal.

I'm not trying to have more sex, or better sex, I'm just trying to get to a place where it's mutual, and not on only one persons terms.

I genuinely think she could go, probably, forever. Possibly an exaggeration, but I'm not so sure! Like you, I don't want to find out.

In any case, no aspect of our sex life is up to me - that's the issue (and a common one, unfortunately).

"Every time I read your posts about your wife I want to swallow strychnine."
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post #1598 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 06:47 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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No doubt it functions, yes, but the whole purpose of this exercise is to try and veer it back to a course that it functions in a way that we both are comfortable with.

As is always the case when dealing with one partner who is LD (or rather, very far off the other persons own desire level), the relationship ends up working the way they want it to. It becomes 'lowest common denominator', rather than something equal.

I'm not trying to have more sex, or better sex, I'm just trying to get to a place where it's mutual, and not on only one persons terms.

I genuinely think she could go, probably, forever. Possibly an exaggeration, but I'm not so sure! Like you, I don't want to find out.

In any case, no aspect of our sex life is up to me - that's the issue (and a common one, unfortunately).
What I noticed in your description above was that it was all about her, details about what you did for her, how many times she came because of it, what she did when you'd finished. You presented as a bit player in your own porno.

What was it like for you? Did she do anything nice to make you feel extra good? Was the orgasm intense? Or meh?

I'm not asking, btw, for the actual details, or a second installation of the story. Just to point out that this might be a place for you to think about making it more about you.
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post #1599 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 07:22 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Thoughts on this

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What I noticed in your description above was that it was all about her, details about what you did for her, how many times she came because of it, what she did when you'd finished. You presented as a bit player in your own porno.

What was it like for you? Did she do anything nice to make you feel extra good? Was the orgasm intense? Or meh?

I'm not asking, btw, for the actual details, or a second installation of the story. Just to point out that this might be a place for you to think about making it more about you.
The sex is mutual, and always has been. I just wasn't that into it, I guess, but I really don't think I showed that, either. She always takes care of me, I always take care of her.

Physically it was good for me, no complaints. If it's ever not good, from a physical standpoint, it's not for her lack of effort, it's just me being tired or whatever.

Look, I never have any complaints about her effort level in regards to the actual sex. I don't think she does, either. Physically we're very compatible. Some women have complaints that their partners spend 'too much' time on them, and they feel pressured as a result. I can't say that's the case here, as I really don't HAVE to spend a lot of time on her (she's very quick to O, and very capable of multiples). She also has no problem telling me when she wants to get to the grand finale (ie. PIV), should I have missed that cue and am a little too engaged in other things. But doesn't often have to. As well, she has no problem telling me to go harder or faster, etc etc etc.

All in all, physically it's almost always good to great. Never been any complaints about that.

But I'm not a 17 year old boy, where the physical sex is all that matters. I sometimes wonder if she doesn't get this aspect, that there's more to sex than just this, that she believes this is all it takes to make a man happy. Yes, I've told her it's not enough. I'm not sure if she thinks I'm an outlier as far as males go, or not.

"Every time I read your posts about your wife I want to swallow strychnine."
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post #1600 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 07:28 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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No doubt it functions, yes, but the whole purpose of this exercise is to try and veer it back to a course that it functions in a way that we both are comfortable with.



As is always the case when dealing with one partner who is LD (or rather, very far off the other persons own desire level), the relationship ends up working the way they want it to. It becomes 'lowest common denominator', rather than something equal.



I'm not trying to have more sex, or better sex, I'm just trying to get to a place where it's mutual, and not on only one persons terms.



I genuinely think she could go, probably, forever. Possibly an exaggeration, but I'm not so sure! Like you, I don't want to find out.



In any case, no aspect of our sex life is up to me - that's the issue (and a common one, unfortunately).


I know what you mean. I always assumed that's the natural set up between man and woman.
Is it that bad?
I suppose you could always 'decline' and it wouldn't be on 'her terms'. But you don't want to do it (and I don't think you should).
I don't really see a problem with it especially if you don't need to increase frequency. Or if the sex isn't bad. Which it doesn't sound like it is.
Yes I also suspect that some women 'can go forever' without it without any damage.
From reading this site (and I kind of suspected it beforehand) that rejection/withholding sex from men actually has quite severe psychological and physiological consequences. Which makes me think that it should be addressed and dealt with it from that angle. That's what people mean that sex for men is a 'need', I guess. (It is also for some women but I would guess not the majority. For my wife it's more of a 'nice thing to do' which she enjoys very much when doing it but i don't think she will become an emotional wreck without it).


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post #1601 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 07:51 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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No doubt it functions, yes, but the whole purpose of this exercise is to try and veer it back to a course that it functions in a way that we both are comfortable with.

As is always the case when dealing with one partner who is LD (or rather, very far off the other persons own desire level), the relationship ends up working the way they want it to. It becomes 'lowest common denominator', rather than something equal.

I'm not trying to have more sex, or better sex, I'm just trying to get to a place where it's mutual, and not on only one persons terms.


I genuinely think she could go, probably, forever. Possibly an exaggeration, but I'm not so sure! Like you, I don't want to find out.

In any case, no aspect of our sex life is up to me - that's the issue (and a common one, unfortunately).
I do wonder, and would be interesting to know what your W thought or anyone else who is LD in the relationship, do they assume that every single time the HD wants to have sex it is b/c they are a raging ball of hormones (i.e. does your W think every time you try to initiate it is b/c she is the only option for you to get off)? I could think of plenty of times I initiated for reasons other then being horny. I guess my thinking here, if the LD assumes the HD is just a big bag of hormones, it makes it easier to use that as an excuse to put minimal effort in on the LDs part and as well can also foster the idea that the HD only wants you for sex (which further diminishes any effort put in by the LD).

Not sure what all this gender sexuality talk is about. I don't think it is a stretch to assume that in general men and women are different, with things being more complicated on the female side. Having large quantities of Testosterone does go a long way lol.

Curious, @alexm , do you think your W's weekly naked routine will continue, or are you expecting that maybe the novelty/challenge will slowly wear off?
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post #1602 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 08:17 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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But I'm not a 17 year old boy, where the physical sex is all that matters. I sometimes wonder if she doesn't get this aspect, that there's more to sex than just this, that she believes this is all it takes to make a man happy. Yes, I've told her it's not enough. I'm not sure if she thinks I'm an outlier as far as males go, or not.
To her, there is NOT "more to sex than this", and I don't think she's worried about what it takes to "make a man happy", she is just doing what feels natural to HER.

Yes she probably thinks you are an outlier. Since she doesn't emotionally connect through sex, she doesn't understand why anyone does.

I had asked before (and had asked long before that too) if you ever checked into the thought that she may be on the spectrum. I don't think you answered, but from much of what you've written, I suspect she is. Many people on the spectrum have a hard time connecting emotionally, in general, and they tend to not understand the emotions of other people or what their emotional needs are. They can also tend to not be able to fulfill those emotional needs because they are not that capable of being extremely emotionally bonded anyway.

Your wife is not just giving you duty sex, IMO. She does understand that you need regular sex, and she is giving you that willingly and without complaint, at a level that feels right for her. She enjoys sex, she just doesn't need more than she is having and she doesn't connect through sexuality or flirting or touching (so she doesn't do them) or even sex, so you feel that disconnect, but she doesn't. She likes having sex with you and knows you want and need sex, so she does have regular sex with you, but it is not to bond with you, it is just to service both of your bodies. To HER, there is no more to it than that.

Remember the goal of feminism: Making sure only alphas get laid!
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post #1603 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 08:37 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

Speaking as someone who is very LD, yes, I always thought sex was only physical and that was its purpose. The idea of an emotional connection was foreign until I began reading TAM and still is something that's difficult for me to relate to. When I was married, sex was for a time scheduled to make sure it wasn't forgotten about. My husband really didn't like scheduling so we eventually stopped and we went back to non-scheduled sex. That made me feel less secure -- somewhat anxious, actually -- but it made him happier and that's what was important to me.

Alex, your wife has found something that works well for her and she obviously doesn't want to change it. Unless the day arrives that she's willing to renegotiate the schedule -- or make it less predictable than its current pattern -- this is where you are. Unfortunately.
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post #1604 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 08:43 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Last edited by TheTruthHurts; 05-16-2017 at 02:38 PM.
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post #1605 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 10:37 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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But I'm not a 17 year old boy, where the physical sex is all that matters. I sometimes wonder if she doesn't get this aspect, that there's more to sex than just this, that she believes this is all it takes to make a man happy. Yes, I've told her it's not enough. I'm not sure if she thinks I'm an outlier as far as males go, or not.
As someone who is very far on the LD side of the spectrum, to the point of not needing sex at all, I cannot wrap my mind around there being more than the physical sex. Yes, I've heard people speak of an emotional connection, but it is so foreign to me that I don't know what they're talking about.

i feel emotional connection through other things. Never through sex, which to me is like eating a sandwich or using the WC or sneezing because you have a cold. Just a thing that our bodies do. When I was married, I never wondered if my husband was feeling an emotional connection during sex, because I assumed everybody was like me. I know better now.
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