Thoughts on this - Page 125 - Talk About Marriage
Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

User Tag List

 2804Likes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
post #1861 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-10-2017, 07:04 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,519
Thoughts on this

.

Last edited by TheTruthHurts; 05-16-2017 at 02:29 PM.
TheTruthHurts is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1862 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-10-2017, 07:09 PM
Member
 
inmyprime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London
Posts: 1,294
Re: Thoughts on this

Quote:
Originally Posted by wild jade View Post
I agree with this, but would add that with this "autism" seems to come with a tendency to pigeon-hole people into one's own categories, experiences, and perspectives, rather than just listening to what they actually have to say.

The power of listening shouldn't be underestimated.
Oh no, one shouldn't pigeon hole anything ever (or try to avoid it as much as possible). I don't think that discussing similarities/differences specific to gender means this though. (Not for me anyway).
inmyprime is online now  
post #1863 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-10-2017, 07:14 PM
Member
 
inmyprime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London
Posts: 1,294
Re: Thoughts on this

Quote:
Originally Posted by wild jade View Post
I'm not dismissing conversation aimed at understanding at all. Not for a minute.

I'm just wondering why no one wants to listen to the one person who is actually the subject of all of this conversation and "insight".
You do mean his wife right? Unfortunately she is not present in this conversation...It is one of the challenges here on TAM I find to decipher the 'real' meaning when everything is presented through a subjective lens of the person presenting a problem concerning two people.
You then offer your own interpretation and so the story goes. Just like Chinese whispers.
I don't mean to say that one should be distrusting of what is being told, just that you have to first strip everything off from emotions and tone and try to get to the facts and see if they seem different to you than the OP.
That's really what these forums are supposed to do I thought? Provide a 'fresh' perspective?
inmyprime is online now  
post #1864 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-10-2017, 07:42 PM
Member
 
wild jade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,560
Re: Thoughts on this

Quote:
Originally Posted by inmyprime View Post
You do mean his wife right? Unfortunately she is not present in this conversation...It is one of the challenges here on TAM I find to decipher the 'real' meaning when everything is presented through a subjective lens of the person presenting a problem concerning two people.
You then offer your own interpretation and so the story goes. Just like Chinese whispers.
I don't mean to say that one should be distrusting of what is being told, just that you have to first strip everything off from emotions and tone and try to get to the facts and see if they seem different to you than the OP.
That's really what these forums are supposed to do I thought? Provide a 'fresh' perspective?
Yes, @alexm's wife. And no, she isn't here, but according to alexm, she told him quite specifically that she is asexual, has no drive at all, and never has.

Alexm, of course, says he does not believe this. I asked him why not, as from my reckoning, it actually explains her behavior quite well. He chose not to answer, but instead went back to insisting that she used to have a drive, she used to be "free" with other guys, and speculating that she shut down with him because those past guys hurt her.

And then, all sorts of labels -- "responsive", "submissive", "complex", -- have been applied to her to explain her behavior because "most women". But none of them work very well. As @EllisRedding and @WorkingOnMe pointed out, she isn't actually responsive. And as alexm himself has said in some posts, she isn't particularly submissive. Certainly him using that analogy of being like a dog spelled out that she's probably the one with the most power in that relationship. And to my mind, there's nothing more simple than just taking her at her word that she is asexual and has no real drive for sex.

There's noting wrong with offering fresh perspectives or sharing our experiences. It's actually fascinating to read and quite instructive about all sorts of things. What it doesn't do is give us a better explanation of alexm's wife than what she has already told him straight up. At least, IMHO. And I wonder why no one wants to actually consider that she just is who she says she is.
wild jade is offline  
post #1865 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-10-2017, 07:55 PM
Member
 
inmyprime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London
Posts: 1,294
Re: Thoughts on this

Ah ok I now understand where you are coming from. But how do you reconcile her behaviour? That she enjoys having sex every time they do it, at least as much as him if not more (i don't think that's something very typical for an asexual). That she initiates sex with him quite frequently it seems (by hopping into bed naked first), not to mention the many multiple O's? That she bumps up the frequency of sex when on holidays etc.
Those are facts as far as I can tell. But it's possible it is all imagined too, I'm not disputing that.
It would be interesting to know in which context she told him that she feels that she is asexual.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
inmyprime is online now  
post #1866 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-10-2017, 07:56 PM
Member
 
wild jade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,560
Re: Thoughts on this

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTruthHurts View Post
I actually don't think it's a listening problem. I just left a meeting at work - with another high iq person - and I don't think he understood what we were saying though we spent 90 minutes going over the same think many differ t ways.

The problem is assumptions and perceptions. We can only experience our own lives and some are more empathetic and some THINK they're more empathetic... but it's still only a point of reference.

We all listen her on TAM and try to relate and offer our experiences. How is that not listening? If I turned around a very similar situation - to the guy - against all odds - isn't that worth discussing? My w may be more flexible but I seriously doubt it. She may be more accommodating but @alexm has not said his w is unaccommodating. Of course there are differences but aren't there similarities also? Times everyone else who has different situations but sees similar components.

If it were simple and direct TAM wouldn't exist


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Don't get me wrong. Of course you should share your experiences. And if alexm can turn things around the same way you did, well, that would be great and you will have done a great service.

When I said that about listening, I was referring very specifically to what we have learned about alexm's wife from her own perspective. Admittedly, it's not a whole lot to go on, but it is actually pretty instructive and, I think, worth listening to. At least as long as we're still talking about her.
wild jade is offline  
post #1867 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-10-2017, 08:07 PM
Member
 
wild jade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,560
Re: Thoughts on this

Quote:
Originally Posted by inmyprime View Post
Ah ok I now understand where you are coming from. But how do you reconcile her behaviour? That she enjoys having sex every time they do it, at least as much as him if not more (i don't think that's something very typical for an asexual). That she initiates sex with him quite frequently it seems (by hopping into bed naked first), not to mention the many multiple O's? That she bumps up the frequency of sex when on holidays etc.
Those are facts as far as I can tell. But it's possible it is all imagined too, I'm not disputing that.
It would be interesting to know in which context she told him that she feels that she is asexual.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There isn't really isn't anything to reconcile here. Asexuals are just as capable of achieving orgasm and having pleasurable sex as anyone else. They aren't "broken", and there are many different reasons to have sex -- beyond urge and attraction.

But that said, I get what you're saying, and that's why I asked alexm why he doesn't believe her. I assume he has some good reason, but at the same time, it actually does provide a very simple explanation of why she is the way she is about sex.
wild jade is offline  
post #1868 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-10-2017, 08:25 PM
Member
 
Faithful Wife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 10,974
Re: Thoughts on this

Quote:
Originally Posted by wild jade View Post
Yes, @alexm's wife. And no, she isn't here, but according to alexm, she told him quite specifically that she is asexual, has no drive at all, and never has.

Alexm, of course, says he does not believe this. I asked him why not, as from my reckoning, it actually explains her behavior quite well. He chose not to answer, but instead went back to insisting that she used to have a drive, she used to be "free" with other guys, and speculating that she shut down with him because those past guys hurt her.

And then, all sorts of labels -- "responsive", "submissive", "complex", -- have been applied to her to explain her behavior because "most women". But none of them work very well. As @EllisRedding and @WorkingOnMe pointed out, she isn't actually responsive. And as alexm himself has said in some posts, she isn't particularly submissive. Certainly him using that analogy of being like a dog spelled out that she's probably the one with the most power in that relationship. And to my mind, there's nothing more simple than just taking her at her word that she is asexual and has no real drive for sex.

There's noting wrong with offering fresh perspectives or sharing our experiences. It's actually fascinating to read and quite instructive about all sorts of things. What it doesn't do is give us a better explanation of alexm's wife than what she has already told him straight up. At least, IMHO. And I wonder why no one wants to actually consider that she just is who she says she is.
I've always assumed what she has shared with Alex was true as well. And all of her actions line up with what she has told him.

She does enjoy sex when they have it, which seems to be the point of contention for people who say "then she CAN'T be asexual!"

Being asexual does not mean the same thing as sexually dysfunctional. Many asexual people have sex and enjoy it when it happens.

Remember the goal of feminism: Making sure only alphas get laid!
Faithful Wife is offline  
post #1869 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-10-2017, 08:28 PM
Member
 
Faithful Wife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 10,974
Re: Thoughts on this

Quoted from AVEN:

Can asexuals have successful romantic relationships with sexuals?

Yes. The tension between the sexual partner's expectations and the asexual partner's needs can be very difficult to work with in some relationships, and many asexuals consider success so unlikely that they prefer not to date sexuals at all, but successful mixed relationships do exist. Some of these relationships are completely sexless; in others, the asexual partner "compromises" by having sex occasionally under certain circumstances; in others, both partners experiment with pseudosexual behavior and find things that work for both of them. Like with any other compatibility issue in a relationship, the key is to establish excellent communication, so that both partners can know and respect the other's situation.

The Asexual Visibility and Education Network | asexuality.org

Remember the goal of feminism: Making sure only alphas get laid!
Faithful Wife is offline  
post #1870 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-10-2017, 08:38 PM
Member
 
inmyprime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London
Posts: 1,294
Re: Thoughts on this

Quote:
Originally Posted by wild jade View Post
There isn't really isn't anything to reconcile here. Asexuals are just as capable of achieving orgasm and having pleasurable sex as anyone else. They aren't "broken", and there are many different reasons to have sex -- beyond urge and attraction.



But that said, I get what you're saying, and that's why I asked alexm why he doesn't believe her. I assume he has some good reason, but at the same time, it actually does provide a very simple explanation of why she is the way she is about sex.


But which way is she? (is the question)
She may well be asexual: there are many definitions and spectrums on the net and by some definitions, 95% of women may well be asexual (fair enough!). Asexuality is not a particularly well understood subject in any case.
I think most of my posts were about Alexm's attitude and perception of his wife rather than his wife's sexuality. It didn't strike me like their 'arrangement' was particularly unreasonable from his first post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
inmyprime is online now  
post #1871 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-10-2017, 08:50 PM
Member
 
inmyprime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London
Posts: 1,294
Thoughts on this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faithful Wife View Post
Quoted from AVEN:

Can asexuals have successful romantic relationships with sexuals?

Yes. The tension between the sexual partner's expectations and the asexual partner's needs can be very difficult to work with in some relationships, and many asexuals consider success so unlikely that they prefer not to date sexuals at all, but successful mixed relationships do exist. Some of these relationships are completely sexless; in others, the asexual partner "compromises" by having sex occasionally under certain circumstances; in others, both partners experiment with pseudosexual behavior and find things that work for both of them. Like with any other compatibility issue in a relationship, the key is to establish excellent communication, so that both partners can know and respect the other's situation.

The Asexual Visibility and Education Network | asexuality.org


Yes I do know about these definitions (and posted that link myself further up, I think). But what is the ultimate test to 'diagnose' her as an asexual?
I am aware of all the things an asexual CAN experience (which seems everything, EXCEPT sexual attraction). I'm more interested in what an asexual can't experience and how to determine one is actually asexual.

How Can I Tell?
If you want to know if you’re asexual, ask yourself the following question: “Do I feel sexual attraction?” If the answer is “No”, you’re asexual. The problem with that question is that “sexual attraction” is a vague phrase. It’s difficult to say that you’ve never felt something, if you don’t know what that something feels like.

If you’re still unsure, here is a list of questions to help guide your thoughts. They’re not meant as a checklist to “diagnose” asexuality, rather, they describe feelings that many asexual people have had.

Are you generally disinterested in sex?
Is your interest in sex more scientific than emotional?
Do you feel left out or confused when others discuss sex?
If you had sex, did you think it was dull or boring, and not the amazing experience other people made it out to be?
Have you ever had to pretend to be interested in someone in order to fit in?
Have you ever felt “broken” because you don’t experience sexual feelings like those around you?
Have you ever felt that you were straight “by default” or that you were bi or pan because you were equally (dis)interested in all genders?
Have you ever gone out with someone or had sex because you felt “that’s what you’re supposed to do?”
If you want to know if someone else is asexual, you have to talk to them about it. There are no outward signs of asexuality, and you shouldn’t attempt to label someone else against their will.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
inmyprime is online now  
post #1872 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-10-2017, 08:54 PM
Member
 
inmyprime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London
Posts: 1,294
Re: Thoughts on this

I'm pretty sure there are a number of things in that list where his wife does not fit at all...But I'll let Alexm answer that...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
inmyprime is online now  
post #1873 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-10-2017, 08:56 PM
Member
 
wild jade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,560
Re: Thoughts on this

Quote:
Originally Posted by inmyprime View Post
But which way is she? (is the question)
She may well be asexual: there are many definitions and spectrums on the net and by some definitions, 95% of women may well be asexual (fair enough!). Asexuality is not a particularly well understood subject in any case.
I think most of my posts were about Alexm's attitude and perception of his wife rather than his wife's sexuality. It didn't strike me like their 'arrangement' was particularly unreasonable from his first post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
LOL. Which definitions would those be?

Most women are sexual. And as I mentioned earlier in this thread, recent research indicates women are more sexual than men are.
wild jade is offline  
post #1874 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-10-2017, 09:01 PM
Member
 
wild jade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,560
Re: Thoughts on this

Quote:
Originally Posted by inmyprime View Post
Yes I do know about these definitions (and posted that link myself further up, I think). But what is the ultimate test to 'diagnose' her as an asexual?
I wouldn't presume to diagnose her. I would just be inclined to take her at her word.

It's up to her, after all, to define her own self.
wild jade is offline  
post #1875 of 1926 (permalink) Old 05-10-2017, 09:17 PM
Member
 
inmyprime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London
Posts: 1,294
Re: Thoughts on this

Quote:
Originally Posted by wild jade View Post
LOL. Which definitions would those be?



Most women are sexual. And as I mentioned earlier in this thread, recent research indicates women are more sexual than men are.


Any woman who is currently not in a relationship with anyone (and therefore not attracted to anyone) could by some definition be asexual. Any woman who is not as attracted to their partner as much as their husband to them, could by some definition be classified as asexual.
And finally: any woman who claims to be asexual, is asexual. Whether she is asexual or not
You cannot 'diagnose' anyone as an asexual nor scientifically show that one is asexual (according to the articles I have read), therefore the conversation is kind of futile and probably me even typing this is intolerant and ignorant of asexuals....



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
inmyprime is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on Talk About Marriage, you must first register. Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Important! Your username will be visible to the public next to anything you post and could show up in search engines like Google. If you are concerned about anonymity, PLEASE choose a username that will not be recognizable to anyone you know.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Would Like to Hear Your Thoughts WhiskeyVictor Considering Divorce or Separation 9 09-17-2016 12:55 AM
Fellow parents of older teens, what are your thoughts? Beautiful-day-I-hope The Family & Parenting Forums 15 04-19-2016 12:14 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome