Thoughts on this - Page 19 - Talk About Marriage
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post #271 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 09:32 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Originally Posted by jld View Post
Far, in a word, one of the main things likely holding you back in your marriage is your defensiveness.

Do you remember when Dug first mentioned that to you, about two years ago? It was an honest, open observation. Not meant to hurt you.
Not meant to "attack" or "mischaracterize" or do anything else in any way harmful to you. It was just his honest feeling that he spontaneously shared with you.

You became reactive. Defensive.

MEM told me once that when I get too close to the truth, people become reactive. That incident between you and Dug made me think of that.
I think you confuse explaining my position with defensiveness. In your mind, where is the line between explaining and defensiveness? Because in all honesty, you use the term "explaining" when you agree or are neutral on a position, and label it as "defensive" when you disagree. Dug does exactly the same thing.

I know I have used this example before, but it is so appropriate to how you approach this: it is like Al Sharpton arbitrarily calling someone a racist. Never mind that there may be no basis for whether or not it is true as this person spends the next several news cycles trying to show all of the things they have done in their past that demonstrate they are not racist. It pins someone in a proverbial corner, and they either accept being labeled as a racist or they attempt to show they are not. Is that defending or explaining?

For the record, your labeling what I do as manipulation is much the same as Al Sharpton. The mere fact that you accept your opinion as fact and mine as...something else...affords you the ability to label me manipulative, followed by defensive. The same defensive label could be applied to how you explain your position.

So... Help me understand: where is the line drawn between explaining and defending?

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Originally Posted by jld View Post
Far, this defensiveness has got to drive your wife crazy. She likely tries to explain her side, and your first instinct is undoubtedly to respond the way you have here, with defensiveness and aggressiveness. I saw it in a post you made earlier this morning on another thread, as well as in your posts to me yesterday.

Now, I know you. I know you are a good person. A very sweet and good-hearted person, as a matter of fact. And you do try to be fair, to the extent you are able to see different sides. But the reactivity probably clouds your vision.

Instead of defending yourself, how about just stopping and saying, "Tell me more"?

Instead of defending yourself, how about just engaging in Active Listening?

How about trying to understand where your wife is coming from--really, thoroughly understanding her--before trying to help her understand your point of view . . . without defending yourself, aggressing her, or demanding she agree with you?
We have been down this road on multiple occasions. Her explanation is that sex is just not a big deal; she could take it or leave it; that this is her and I should not try to change her. This is all well and good, but then we have a situation where my wife says something sexual in nature to me (after she rejected me the previous three times I initiated in the preceding three or four weeks) and I shrugged my shoulders in indifference. She actually got angry over it, and it hurt her feelings. Me not getting excited over her making a sexual overture hurt her feelings.

When I stop opening doors for her, stop assisting her with her animals, stop doing acts of service for her that make her feel secure in our relationship such as taking her to lunch or calling to check on her, she gets angry with me, yet she can continue on a cycle of sex once or twice in a month and not bat an eye, or worse, actually get angry with me when I bring it up. Please tell me...who is defensive again?

I typically do not respond to her with defensiveness, although there are some instances where I slip. I simply tell her that if she wants more from me, she can start by doing more for me.

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Originally Posted by jld View Post
One other thing I would like to address. Our spouses live with us. They usually know us inside and out. That is why their criticisms of us can be so valuable to our self-awareness, and potential strengthening.

When your wife says that she is raising two boys . . . think about that, far. Think about the underlying truth there. Think about how that makes her feel at times. Relate it to your own frustrations with her immaturity in certain areas. Let that empathy rise in you, and extend it to her.

Empathy builds emotional safety. Like transparency, it builds trust.
She has not made a statement like this in over two (maybe three) years. If this is an issue, she has not brought it up. Just last night, B11 decided he was going to carry some cat litter from the truck, which was about 50 yards from the house. He dropped it on the porch and it spilled everywhere. She lost her temper, and lashed out at B11. She then stormed over to me and screamed at me.

Her: How could you let him do that?!?
Me: Do what?
Her: Carry the litter before the truck was parked next to the house!!!
Me: He insisted on doing it after I suggested he not do it. He had to learn by making the mistake because he refused to listen.

She then stormed off. B11 was crushed and in tears. I knew exactly what I was doing. B11 insists on learning things the hard way, so I gently make a suggestion, and if he does not listen, I allow to learn from his own mistakes.

I approached her 5 minutes later and told her she owes B11 an apology, and that her reaction was way out of line. She again lost her ****, and said that we were adding to her work. I then pointed out that she did not have to carry the litter, nor clean the mess, so it added not one iota of work to her. I think she got it then because she did not say anything else. I think she apologized to B11. I did not ask her for one, although she should have apologized to me as well.

The point is that criticism of her is off limits. She handles criticism (or anything not being okay) by lashing out. Couple that with her attitude about me trying to change her, and this does indeed lead me to struggle with empathy for her, especially when I listen to her criticism of me with open ears, and always apologize when I have wronged her. Again, please tell me who is defensive.

That is why I focus on myself. I am not being needy. I am not being vengeful or spiteful. I can go back to a relationship where we are living like roommates if that will be easier for her. I have enough in my life in which I can find enjoyment without needing things from her, by investing the time and energy I place into her into myself and B11 instead.

However, if she wants more from me, she can start by doing more for me. If this does not work for her, then she is more than welcome to find someone else who will accept such a situation.

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley

Last edited by farsidejunky; 04-11-2017 at 09:38 AM.
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post #272 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 09:52 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

@farsidejunky - thanks for that last post, it was very well laid out. I think it illustrates very well the difference between two people working as a team together and one person who (for one reason or the other) wants to work under their "rules" only (and the big part, they don't like it when you don't play along, and I think this is what burns us). I think it is important to realize as well, some people are just set in their ways. No amount of "inspiration" is going to change that. At that point, it will become very individualistic where the relationship goes and why a generic "do this and it will fix everything" approach that has been positioned here completely misses the mark.

Not gonna lie, and maybe b/c I can more easily relate to your situation, I wasn't expecting your posts here to somehow get spun around into what you are doing wrong lol.
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post #273 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 10:00 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Originally Posted by farsidejunky View Post
I think you confuse explaining my position with defensiveness. In your mind, where is the line between explaining and defensiveness? Because in all honesty, you use the term "explaining" when you agree or are neutral on a position, and label it as "defensive" when you disagree. Dug does exactly the same thing.

I know I have used this example before, but it is so appropriate to how you approach this: it is like Al Sharpton arbitrarily calling someone a racist. Never mind that there may be no basis for whether or not it is true as this person spends the next several news cycles trying to show all of the things they have done in their past that demonstrate they are not racist. It pins someone in a proverbial corner, and they either accept being labeled as a racist or they attempt to show they are not. Is that defending or explaining?

For the record, your labeling what I do as manipulation is much the same as Al Sharpton. The mere fact that you accept your opinion as fact and mine as...something else...affords you the ability to label me manipulative, followed by defensive. The same defensive label could be applied to how you explain your position.

So... Help me understand: where is the line drawn between explaining and defending?



We have been down this road on multiple occasions. Her explanation is that sex is just not a big deal; she could take it or leave it; that this is her and I should not try to change her. This is all well and good, but then we have a situation where my wife says something sexual in nature to me (after she rejected me the previous three times I initiated in the preceding three or four weeks) and I shrugged my shoulders in indifference. She actually got angry over it, and it hurt her feelings. Me not getting excited over her making a sexual overture hurt her feelings.

When I stop opening doors for her, stop assisting her with her animals, stop doing acts of service for her that make her feel secure in our relationship such as taking her to lunch or calling to check on her, she gets angry with me, yet she can continue on a cycle of sex once or twice in a month and not bat an eye, or worse, actually get angry with me when I bring it up. Please tell me...who is defensive again?

I typically do not respond to her with defensiveness, although there are some instances where I slip. I simply tell her that if she wants more from me, she can start by doing more for me.



She has not made a statement like this in over two (maybe three) years. If this is an issue, she has not brought it up. Just last night, B11 decided he was going to carry some cat litter from the truck, which was about 50 yards from the house. He dropped it on the porch and it spilled everywhere. She lost her temper, and lashed out at B11. She then stormed over to me and screamed at me.

Her: How could you let him do that?!?
Me: Do what?
Her: Carry the litter before the truck was parked next to the house!!!
Me: He insisted on doing it after I suggested he not do it. He had to learn by making the mistake because he refused to listen.

She then stormed off. B11 was crushed and in tears. I knew exactly what I was doing. B11 insists on learning things the hard way, so I gently make a suggestion, and if he does not listen, I allow to learn from his own mistakes.

I approached her 5 minutes later and told her she owes B11 an apology, and that her reaction was way out of line. She again lost her ****, and said that we were adding to her work. I then pointed out that she did not have to carry the litter, nor clean the mess, so it added not one iota of work to her. I think she got it then because she did not say anything else. I think she apologized to B11. I did not ask her for one, although she should have apologized to me as well.

The point is that criticism of her is off limits. She handles criticism (or anything not being okay) by lashing out. Couple that with her attitude about me trying to change her, and this does indeed lead me to struggle with empathy for her, especially when I listen to her criticism of me with open ears, and always apologize when I have wronged her. Again, please tell me who is defensive.

That is why I focus on myself. I am not being needy. I am not being vengeful or spiteful. I can go back to a relationship where we are living like roommates if that will be easier for her. I have enough in my life in which I can find enjoyment without needing things from her, by investing the time and energy I place into her into myself and B11 instead.

However, if she wants more from me, she can start by doing more for me. If this does not work for her, then she is more than welcome to find someone else who will accept such a situation.
Far, this post makes me smile in its sincerity, though much of it seems . . . defensive. From my perspective.

It is also very earnest, just like you.

Maybe later, try to reread what I have said, and see if you see anything you did not earlier. And I will reread what you have said. And maybe we can talk again.

As to your frustrations in your marriage . . . You are the only one in your couple here, far. You are the only person we can address to help make your marriage better.

I know it is hard for the buck to stop with you. But I don't see any other (effective) way to advise you.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #274 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 10:05 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

Let me save you some time and heartbreak. What you are experiencing is who she is. You can't change it, and you can't control it. You need to decide if you want to spend the rest of your life living like that. The only thing that will change her libido is a new man, and when that wears off he will experience what you are already experiencing. I may be jaded, but that's what I believe. I have already cast my lot in life, so I'm stuck.
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post #275 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 10:08 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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I normally stay away from this forum because I'm low drive/non-existent drive and don't do a good job of explaining it when I attempt to. However, I'm sympathetic to Alex so I will try.

I have CSA in my history. Not a lot but some. I can't ever remember a moment of my life when I thought sex had value. My body works but my mind doesn't work (in that regard) and that's always been the case. I was married to a very high drive man who was badly cheated in what he got with me. I tried to never turn him down but I never initiated (why would I when I never wanted sex). I tried to be as understanding as I am capable of about what sex means to other people but the truth is that I don't understand it at all. It's just missing in me. There's nothing there. I don't get it. Males always got caught up in how I look and had their own ideas as to how I should be. They have always been disappointed. My ex-husband swore he wasn't but he cheated so he probably was.

Not every female is like me or anywhere close (thankfully). I assume few are, actually. But this is who I am and so it's normal for me.

This kind of open and honest sharing could be beneficial over in CWI, as well.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #276 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 10:15 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

Before we mutually disengage, can you please answer the question from my previous post?

Where does explaining end and defensiveness begin?

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Originally Posted by jld View Post
Far, this post makes me smile in its sincerity, though much of it seems . . . defensive. From my perspective.

It is also very earnest, just like you.

Maybe later, try to reread what I have said, and see if you see anything you did not earlier. And I will reread what you have said. And maybe we can talk again.

As to your frustrations in your marriage . . . You are the only one in your couple here, far. You are the only person we can address to help make your marriage better.

I know it is hard for the buck to stop with you. But I don't see any other (effective) way to advise you.

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #277 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 10:16 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Of course one can be a nice guy without being a "nice guy". What I am doing is asserting a boundary.

When I am asked (or as it would be, frequently expected) to do loving acts for her while she gives excuses as she foregoes loving acts in return, it trips a boundary, and I stop giving as much.
Each relationship is as same-same as different I suppose... EB2 would respond poorly if I changed the amount of giving either way, so I have learned to not give more so my generosity is not interpreted by her as manipulation, nor less so my withdraw is seen as punishment and antagonistic uncaring... it simply is what it is, steady consistency wrapped in kindness whether her behavior or mine is in line with it or not. I have to add my behavior into this first for a proper check and balance because it helps evaluate my role in my boundary as well, thus fairness ensues.

I've practiced this in earnest the last six months through a variety of tests (on her part) and what used to be days of spiraling disagreements and potentially bad feelings are now quelled in a matter of hours and she is learning she can trust my stability as she inspects for reactions from either side and finds her lack of calm fades allowing intimacy to flow back in... this ensures an invitation more weekends than not, an affirmation that connections of the physical kind are still important to her to be important to us.

To have sex every couple days would upset this balance in the way she thinks and feels about us, again, it's a sword I choose to bypass knowing I am loved and will be loved with a more intense physical intimacy once a week.

I guess my point to @alexm is to trust the process without complicating it in desire overthought.

नमस्ते 🙏

Last edited by Emerging Buddhist; 04-11-2017 at 11:56 AM. Reason: Mindful clarification...
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post #278 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 10:23 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

Ellis:

All of us can improve in at least some ways, myself included. Could I be a better husband? Sure.

I am dealing with this situation in a way that works for me to not build resentment. Most days we are pretty good, even if it does not sound like it.

However, when I am taken for granted, it is a trigger for me. I have explained it to her that way, but little has changed. She says she understands. She just does not prioritize me. It is not malicious. It is just her dealing with life the best she can.

That is what we are both doing.

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Originally Posted by EllisRedding View Post
@farsidejunky - thanks for that last post, it was very well laid out. I think it illustrates very well the difference between two people working as a team together and one person who (for one reason or the other) wants to work under their "rules" only (and the big part, they don't like it when you don't play along, and I think this is what burns us). I think it is important to realize as well, some people are just set in their ways. No amount of "inspiration" is going to change that. At that point, it will become very individualistic where the relationship goes and why a generic "do this and it will fix everything" approach that has been positioned here completely misses the mark.

Not gonna lie, and maybe b/c I can more easily relate to your situation, I wasn't expecting your posts here to somehow get spun around into what you are doing wrong lol.

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #279 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 10:44 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Before we mutually disengage, can you please answer the question from my previous post?

Where does explaining end and defensiveness begin?
If the person you are addressing does not feel listened to and understood, both your "explaining" and your defending are likely to feel like the same thing. And neither of them are likely to go anywhere.

Far, before your wife can really hear what you are trying to tell her, with whatever motive, she probably needs to feel you understand where *she* is coming from. That is the essence of Active Listening: People calm down when they feel understood. Their minds relax. They start to open and are able to emotionally and intellectually accept (slowly, gently in some) ideas that may differ from their own.

And that is because they were first given the emotional safety in what they already believed, to be able to consider something different, without feeling threatened by it. Without that emotional safety, the conversation is likely to go nowhere.

And I should probably take my own advice above.

You feel like when I disagree with you, I think you are being defensive. And when I agree with you, I don't consider you to be defensive, but to be explaining yourself. Is that right?

As far as Al Sharpton calling someone a racist, or anyone labeling anyone anything, remember: You do not have to give anyone's ideas any power over you. They have no power you do not give them.

Now, if you do feel inspired (or provoked ) by something they say, stay with that for a minute. Ask yourself why. Ponder why it touched your conscience the way it did.

There are folks who post on TAM who I usually just give a drive by glance to. But once in a while one will say something that will have me thinking hard. Usually it is something sincere and heartfelt, something that has pained them in their lives. Once in a while it is something wise.

Those are valuable posts to me. Anything that really gets me thinking is valuable to me.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #280 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 10:45 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Originally Posted by farsidejunky View Post
Ellis:

All of us can improve in at least some ways, myself included. Could I be a better husband? Sure.

I am dealing with this situation in a way that works for me to not build resentment. Most days we are pretty good, even if it does not sound like it.

However, when I am taken for granted, it is a trigger for me. I have explained it to her that way, but little has changed. She says she understands. She just does not prioritize me. It is not malicious. It is just her dealing with life the best she can.

That is what we are both doing.
And this is a mature post.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #281 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 10:48 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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I think you confuse explaining my position with defensiveness. In your mind, where is the line between explaining and defensiveness? Because in all honesty, you use the term "explaining" when you agree or are neutral on a position, and label it as "defensive" when you disagree. Dug does exactly the same thing.

I know I have used this example before, but it is so appropriate to how you approach this: it is like Al Sharpton arbitrarily calling someone a racist. Never mind that there may be no basis for whether or not it is true as this person spends the next several news cycles trying to show all of the things they have done in their past that demonstrate they are not racist. It pins someone in a proverbial corner, and they either accept being labeled as a racist or they attempt to show they are not. Is that defending or explaining?

For the record, your labeling what I do as manipulation is much the same as Al Sharpton. The mere fact that you accept your opinion as fact and mine as...something else...affords you the ability to label me manipulative, followed by defensive. The same defensive label could be applied to how you explain your position.

So... Help me understand: where is the line drawn between explaining and defending?



We have been down this road on multiple occasions. Her explanation is that sex is just not a big deal; she could take it or leave it; that this is her and I should not try to change her. This is all well and good, but then we have a situation where my wife says something sexual in nature to me (after she rejected me the previous three times I initiated in the preceding three or four weeks) and I shrugged my shoulders in indifference. She actually got angry over it, and it hurt her feelings. Me not getting excited over her making a sexual overture hurt her feelings.

When I stop opening doors for her, stop assisting her with her animals, stop doing acts of service for her that make her feel secure in our relationship such as taking her to lunch or calling to check on her, she gets angry with me, yet she can continue on a cycle of sex once or twice in a month and not bat an eye, or worse, actually get angry with me when I bring it up. Please tell me...who is defensive again?

I typically do not respond to her with defensiveness, although there are some instances where I slip. I simply tell her that if she wants more from me, she can start by doing more for me.



She has not made a statement like this in over two (maybe three) years. If this is an issue, she has not brought it up. Just last night, B11 decided he was going to carry some cat litter from the truck, which was about 50 yards from the house. He dropped it on the porch and it spilled everywhere. She lost her temper, and lashed out at B11. She then stormed over to me and screamed at me.

Her: How could you let him do that?!?
Me: Do what?
Her: Carry the litter before the truck was parked next to the house!!!
Me: He insisted on doing it after I suggested he not do it. He had to learn by making the mistake because he refused to listen.

She then stormed off. B11 was crushed and in tears. I knew exactly what I was doing. B11 insists on learning things the hard way, so I gently make a suggestion, and if he does not listen, I allow to learn from his own mistakes.

I approached her 5 minutes later and told her she owes B11 an apology, and that her reaction was way out of line. She again lost her ****, and said that we were adding to her work. I then pointed out that she did not have to carry the litter, nor clean the mess, so it added not one iota of work to her. I think she got it then because she did not say anything else. I think she apologized to B11. I did not ask her for one, although she should have apologized to me as well.

The point is that criticism of her is off limits. She handles criticism (or anything not being okay) by lashing out. Couple that with her attitude about me trying to change her, and this does indeed lead me to struggle with empathy for her, especially when I listen to her criticism of me with open ears, and always apologize when I have wronged her. Again, please tell me who is defensive.

That is why I focus on myself. I am not being needy. I am not being vengeful or spiteful. I can go back to a relationship where we are living like roommates if that will be easier for her. I have enough in my life in which I can find enjoyment without needing things from her, by investing the time and energy I place into her into myself and B11 instead.

However, if she wants more from me, she can start by doing more for me. If this does not work for her, then she is more than welcome to find someone else who will accept such a situation.
I don't have anything helpful to add to this - just wanted to let you know I actually laughed when I read the cat litter story because I also have a son who "needs to learn the hard way". My H and I have had the same situations erupt exactly as you described where I get frustrated because I just wanted the task DONE as quickly and efficiently as possible, and adding son into the mix causes delays or messes.

My H has this look that he shoots me. It's not nasty. I can't describe it. All he has to do is give me that look and I instantly cool my jets and shut up immediately and let him take over with whatever issue the kid is having at that moment. The best I can do is describe it is a "back off" signal. I don't take offense to it. I just step back and let him handle it.

This issue is worth discussing with your wife at some point. I can be quick tempered also (I'm a high stress person by nature) and I've definitely lost my **** on my kids before and then felt terrible about it later. My H and I both mutually agreed that one of our goals is to be firm and fair to the kids, but not mean. If one of us is at the point of completely losing it, the calm one usually steps in quickly to get the angry parent out of the equation and try to de-escalate. I grew up in a house with a lot of yelling and I don't want that for my kids.

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post #282 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 10:52 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Long story short, I tend to believe that she embraced her responsive desire once upon a time. And by the time we started dating she had consciously or subconsciously implemented these parameters on her sexuality. As in she will not 'give in' every time a guy tries to initiate sex.

So - control of her sexuality, something she likely did not feel at certain points in her life. She wants to be loved and wanted and desired for other reasons. With me, she is, obviously. But old habits die hard?
I've been lurking this thread for a few days. Read some of your past threads as well and this is probably the closest to how I personally feel in my marriage and why yes, I am a control freak about sex.

I think I have a naturally higher drive than your wife, so I am not just responsively driven and there are not just set days but for the most part, including at times in my marriage I feel like there has to be control otherwise I am taken advantage of.

The only thing that has really put my defenses down are a) scheduling sex and b) full relief of pressure. That bad thing is that this still doesn't really make anyone happy...so wish I had a better solution than a time machine!
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post #283 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 11:24 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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I normally stay away from this forum because I'm low drive/non-existent drive and don't do a good job of explaining it when I attempt to. However, I'm sympathetic to Alex so I will try.

I have CSA in my history. Not a lot but some. I can't ever remember a moment of my life when I thought sex had value. My body works but my mind doesn't work (in that regard) and that's always been the case. I was married to a very high drive man who was badly cheated in what he got with me. I tried to never turn him down but I never initiated (why would I when I never wanted sex). I tried to be as understanding as I am capable of about what sex means to other people but the truth is that I don't understand it at all. It's just missing in me. There's nothing there. I don't get it. Males always got caught up in how I look and had their own ideas as to how I should be. They have always been disappointed. My ex-husband swore he wasn't but he cheated so he probably was.

Not every female is like me or anywhere close (thankfully). I assume few are, actually. But this is who I am and so it's normal for me.
Thank you for sharing--we need more LD input around here.

Honest question here--If instead of lying to you, your husband had been upfront and sought your permission about his intentions to go outside the marriage for sex, would it still have hurt? Or would it have been along the lines of "Hey, I'd like to go play racquetball with Anita, do you mind?"

Darling it's better down where it's wetter, take it from me! --- Sebastian
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post #284 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 11:41 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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This kind of open and honest sharing could be beneficial over in CWI, as well.
I admit I'm amazed at the non-cheating by the TAM men when they have a wife similar to me. I guess I'm conditioned to cheating when there's sexual incompatibility. My father cheated on my mother. My husband cheated on me. Others in my family were cheated on as well. Based on that, I would have said virtually all men cheat but that's obviously not true.

I was always an ultra-giver but I couldn't manufacture desire (and that's what my husband wanted). I don't even know what that would be like. Maybe CSA shut me down. Or maybe I'm just not remotely close to the norm and that would be the case even without CSA. I don't know. But CSA has impacted my life for sure and the older I get the more I see the damage. It can make for a very tough marriage and I won't try that again.
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post #285 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 11:52 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Ellis:

All of us can improve in at least some ways, myself included. Could I be a better husband? Sure.

I am dealing with this situation in a way that works for me to not build resentment. Most days we are pretty good, even if it does not sound like it.

However, when I am taken for granted, it is a trigger for me. I have explained it to her that way, but little has changed. She says she understands. She just does not prioritize me. It is not malicious. It is just her dealing with life the best she can.

That is what we are both doing.
I agree with you, there is always room for improvement and self reflection. At the end of the day I can only control my actions as best I can, so that is what I need to take responsibility for.

Funny, on the prioritize topic, that is very similar to my W. When there is other stuff going on (i.e. the kids, etc...) I quickly fall to the bottom of the list. This is not malicious in any way, it is just how she handles things, and I think in part it is easy to slide me down the list because I have always been the stable/constant part of her life for so long. Honestly, I don't even mind to an extent b/c I am not one that demands frequent attention (I am actually quite the opposite). There is a fine line though where it moves from dealing with life and being taken for granted (probably what you see as well)

I think it is important to note, when I talk about backing away (and would guess this applies to most of the other people here in similar situations), refocusing on other areas, etc.. it is not like we are saying we just simply disregard/ignore our SO. I still take on my responsibilities as a Husband and father. For me though, I am mentally tired of having our sex life be 99.8% my responsibility. At this moment, the way for me to avoid building resentment is to refocus my energies elsewhere. Right now, this is the best solution for me, even if it is not necessarily ideal for my W
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