Thoughts on this - Page 36 - Talk About Marriage
Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

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post #526 of 1499 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 10:07 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Originally Posted by Buddy400 View Post
As Louis CK says, if they won't have sex with you, what other choice do you have?
That's exactly the reference I was going for :-)
But again, misremembered exact wording.
I hope the lighthearted banter is not getting mistaken here for actual violence by some women. Tone of voice is not available here so misunderstandings are bound to happen.
Will tone it down.
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post #527 of 1499 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 10:09 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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I've learned not to listen to these words as it is a very rare man who even knows how much sex he could have and how often, because most of them have simply never been able to test it.
Which would seem to be evidence that, while women like you DO exist, they are rare.
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post #528 of 1499 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 10:11 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Originally Posted by jld View Post
That is really sad, Fozzy.

I guess I am like Dug's dog, according to your description. I am always going to him, transparently seeking his attention or affection. And getting those things makes me feel safe and loved and receptive to his sexual advances.

But sometimes he is not very sensitive to my needs, and that hurts. Perceived rejection, even if it is just a lack of awareness on his part, and unintended, hurts me.

Those of us who feel like the puppy dogs in our relationships are kind of stuck when our masters do not take care of us. Other than transparent communication, I am not sure what to recommend. We are kind of at their mercy, unless we want to run away from them. And that just seems really scary and not what we really want at all.

@Duguesclin I am doing a mention to you because I want you to see this post, and Fozzy's post that motivated it. Thank you.
Different relationship dynamic preferences for different people I guess. I am not certain a "puppy" wife would be my type (sorry, I am not saying that's all you are. Being general again).

I think I need to fight for my woman and her affection. I don't like to have it easy in that sense (kiss her and she will melt at my legs).

It's only when it becomes a deliberate game to "control" or manipulate from the other side and I begin to feel that at the core of it, there is nothing much else to her feelings, that i begin to panic.
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post #529 of 1499 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 10:14 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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That is really sad, Fozzy.

I guess I am like Dug's dog, according to your description. I am always going to him, transparently seeking his attention or affection. And getting those things makes me feel safe and loved and receptive to his sexual advances.

But sometimes he is not very sensitive to my needs, and that hurts. Perceived rejection, even if it is just a lack of awareness on his part, and unintended, hurts me.

Those of us who feel like the puppy dogs in our relationships are kind of stuck when our masters do not take care of us. Other than transparent communication, I am not sure what to recommend. We are kind of at their mercy, unless we want to run away from them. And that just seems really scary and not what we really want at all.

@Duguesclin I am doing a mention to you because I want you to see this post, and Fozzy's post that motivated it. Thank you.
Leaving the power dynamic out of it--it's just a matter of learning. I don't view myself as subservient in my relationship. I'm just saying that when an action continuously produces an unfavorable reaction, you pretty soon learn to avoid that action. For many of us, that includes communicating what we want.

Darling it's better down where it's wetter, take it from me! --- Sebastian
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post #530 of 1499 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 10:28 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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And here I will leave you with a question to ponder. Am I the 'castrated/spineless' husband. Or am I instead the 'wife whisperer'?

The beauty of it is - I don't care what 'you' meaning what anyone else thinks. Because I know what is true - which is that both those statements are true in a sense. The former is true - because it feels bad to me to cause M2 needless distress. And she is very skillful when it comes to shaping/discouraging behavior that causes her angst. And it is also true that - by asking her permission - I am putting her at ease in a fairly effortless manner. In a very real sense - this isn't about me. It's about helping the person I love most - manage her phobias.

The reason for all this explanation is this. If you wish to be happy - you need comprehension. That is what you currently lack. Comprehension generally eliminates anxiety.

As for the meta conversations this enables - they are easy and light hearted.

Mine sort of went like this:

We all get dealt a hand. Usually includes some phobias. There is absolutely no difference between my fears of wasps and heights and your fears of being left out or losing control. You have been extraordinarily considerate of mine. I genuinely strive to handle yours in the same manner.

MEM2020, this is a wonderful close to your most enlightening post...

In the last two weeks EB2 has been presented with our son (my stepson) being convicted of a felony, her brother dying, being told her job will be made redundant in June, and on top of that she hurt her back the first 10 minutes of Spring yard cleanup... distress was foremost and past practice would have had us not speaking when she needed me the most.

Instead, I was your "wife-whisperer" that you spoke of... what a difference.

She asked last night what I thought of her retiring, seeking a permission that was not mine to have to give, and I gave her my thoughts but in the end told her that no matter what she decided, I had her back. I got the biggest hug and I love you this morning as we were trading places in the shower and body to body, we were at peace body and soul... my calm is her calm when she does need it the most, and I was there "effortlessly" without terms or conditions, what a great place to be.

Thank you for sharing...

Hey @alexm, this is good stuff to think about..

नमस्ते 🙏
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post #531 of 1499 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 10:32 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Thinking about it objectively: there has to be some sort of balance. By that I mean that the way the roles are set up usually (also in the animal kingdom): the male loses it's mind about the female as he takes charge over the female during the sex act. However the female has control over who screws her and when. It's supposed to all balance out somewhere, somehow...
Would your wife be the same person or would you perceive her in the same way if she completely relinquished this "control" over this aspect in your marriage? I sometimes am not sure I can answer this question honestly because some things lose their value once we fully possess them. The problems arise when balance tips over too much, then it becomes frustration/holding a grudge. I guess the one with control has the responsibility to use it wisely otherwise it will backfire.
There are plenty of women who never say "no" to their husbands regarding sex (including quite a few who probably should say no).

It seems to me that those marriages (excluding the ones where she should say no) are among the happiest.

Just because you could control something doesn't mean you have to.
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post #532 of 1499 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 10:33 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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MEM2020, this is a wonderful close to your most enlightening post...

In the last two weeks EB2 has been presented with our son (my stepson) being convicted of a felony, her brother dying, being told her job will be made redundant in June, and on top of that she hurt her back the first 10 minutes of Spring yard cleanup... distress was foremost and past practice would have had us not speaking when she needed me the most.

Instead, I was your "wife-whisperer" that you spoke of... what a difference.

She asked last night what I thought of her retiring, seeking a permission that was not mine to have to give, and I gave her my thoughts but in the end told her that no matter what she decided, I had her back. I got the biggest hug and I love you this morning as we were trading places in the shower and body to body, we were at peace body and soul... my calm is her calm when she does need it the most, and I was there "effortlessly" without terms or conditions, what a great place to be.

Thank you for sharing...

Hey @alexm, this is good stuff to think about..
I would love to achieve what you have. There's a lot of fear of reaction or rejection in my marriage that rules a lot of how we interact with each other, and I would really like to move past it.

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post #533 of 1499 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 10:41 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Originally Posted by inmyprime View Post
Different relationship dynamic preferences for different people I guess. I am not certain a "puppy" wife would be my type (sorry, I am not saying that's all you are. Being general again).
That's okay. We are not all meant to be married to each other.

The main thing is to find the person we are highly compatible with. That will make our life together so much easier.

Quote:
I think I need to fight for my woman and her affection. I don't like to have it easy in that sense (kiss her and she will melt at my legs).
It sounds like you picked the right gal, then! She seems to give you a run for your money!

Quote:
It's only when it becomes a deliberate game to "control" or manipulate from the other side and I begin to feel that at the core of it, there is nothing much else to her feelings, that i begin to panic.
Can you elaborate on what is motivating that panic?

It does not need to make sense. Just getting it out can be enlightening, and freeing.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #534 of 1499 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 10:42 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Originally Posted by inmyprime View Post
That's exactly the reference I was going for :-)
But again, misremembered exact wording.
I hope the lighthearted banter is not getting mistaken here for actual violence by some women. Tone of voice is not available here so misunderstandings are bound to happen.
Will tone it down.
Could you address my question about domestic violence, though? Saying you would kiss your wife, and then mentioning a fist, just seems scary.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #535 of 1499 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 10:49 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Originally Posted by Fozzy View Post
Leaving the power dynamic out of it--it's just a matter of learning. I don't view myself as subservient in my relationship. I'm just saying that when an action continuously produces an unfavorable reaction, you pretty soon learn to avoid that action. For many of us, that includes communicating what we want.
Fozzy, I would like to ask you a question. You certainly do not need to answer it. But I am curious.

How does it make you feel to think an outsider may see you as subservient to your wife, as giving your power to her? (Even though you do not see it that way. Even knowing that it is just an observation by a total stranger, and really has no power other than that.) Does it seem threatening?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #536 of 1499 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 10:51 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Originally Posted by jld View Post
That's okay. We are not all meant to be married to each other.

The main thing is to find the person we are highly compatible with. That will make our life together so much easier.



It sounds like you picked the right gal, then! She seems to give you a run for your money!



Can you elaborate on what is motivating that panic?

It does not need to make sense. Just getting it out can be enlightening, and freeing.
Haha, you are a good listener JLD

Just being inadequate for her in that department. Basically that underneath it all, there is no real affection left for me. That no matter what I do or how I act, it will not push the right buttons because she settled for less, and she may not know it herself.
Kind of stupid.
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post #537 of 1499 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 10:53 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Could you address my question about domestic violence, though? Saying you would kiss your wife, and then mentioning a fist, just seems scary.
I did!! In post no. 510. Did you not read it? Or does it not answer your question?
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post #538 of 1499 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 10:54 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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I hope the lighthearted banter is not getting mistaken here for actual violence by some women. Tone of voice is not available here so misunderstandings are bound to happen.
When I first started here I considered using emoticons to be "cheating".

After all, if I said something correctly, readers would understand the "tone".

Nope.
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post #539 of 1499 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 10:58 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

Power dynamics in marriage are interesting. In general the person who is most "fragile" has the power.

Someone who is feeling too poorly for sex gets to say not to sex. Nothing the other can do. (since threats are clearly not OK).

The weaker party can can always stop any action by claiming weakness.

When my wife and I go hiking in the mountains, I'm a much stronger hiker, so she "controls" when we stop. What other option is there?
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post #540 of 1499 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 11:01 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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When my wife and I go hiking in the mountains, I'm a much stronger hiker, so she "controls" when we stop. What other option is there?
Make sure she has a large life insurance policy
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