Thoughts on this - Page 5 - Talk About Marriage
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post #61 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-07-2017, 07:31 PM
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Re: Thoughts on this

There is something very wrong here.

The scenario that you have illustrated is not healthy?

Have you two thought about counseling?.
How about just for her?

There is something tickling my brain about this.

I can't quite make it out but it is certainly there. Like something in the shadows.
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post #62 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-07-2017, 07:40 PM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Originally Posted by alexm View Post
Big time, yeah. Which makes it all the more confusing to me. I've called it 'porn sex' here before, and that's pretty much the best description I can give of it.

Physically, I've never had sex this good in my life, and I can't imagine anybody could top her - no exaggeration.

It's so confusing.
No offense, but this reminds me of Eddie Murphy RAW's Ritz Cracker Sex routine. It was and still is hilarious, but it was shocking realistic and accurate when it happened to me.
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post #63 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-07-2017, 09:03 PM
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Re: Thoughts on this

Buddy,

I have the exact same reaction that you do to this situation / marital dynamic.

Thing is - it is difficult for me to understand how other couples - dance.

At some level - I'm aware that M2 has created an unusually high level of synchronization with me. Our default reaction to each other's requests (Gottman calls them bids) is yes. This 'yes' is a nearly hard wired reflex to any request.

Deep sigh......

With power comes - responsibility. So - I generally don't ask M2 to do anything - that - I don't think she WANTS to do. The nice thing is that she has asked me to - play - with her - and just see what happens. Sometimes play creates passion - and when that occurs - we have sex. And when it doesn't - we don't.

And I like it like that. It feels right. Sometimes - M2 - unilaterally decides that - we are going to connect even if said connection is kind of one sided. And that's ok - because it's always ok to assert a give. Completely different than asserting a take.

This is love - yes? It can be given, but not taken.

Taking - isn't about love - it is about power and selfishness. And yes - my fluency in such matters comes from hard won experience. In our first decade+ I took what I wanted from M2. Not physically - but still - I wouldn't wish the weight of those memories - on my worst enemy. Somehow (inexplicably) M2 bears me no ill will for this.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy400 View Post
The thing about your wife that so annoys me isn't that "she has almost no natural interest in sex" but the way that she dismisses your needs out of hand.

People who love you don't do that. And, if they do, they shouldn't get away with it.
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post #64 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-07-2017, 09:17 PM
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Re: Thoughts on this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livvie View Post
So it's either her way all of the time, or no way?
The person who cares the least tends to win here.

It's the SLA frequency theory. If she has sex outside this SLA, she could well think it's going to increase the frequency, and thus is unwelcome. It's a defense mechanism.

Down the road the 1x a week will magically become 1x every two weeks, 1x a month, etc. That's the fallacy of scheduled intimacy.
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post #65 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-07-2017, 09:27 PM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Originally Posted by alexm View Post
Big time, yeah. Which makes it all the more confusing to me. I've called it 'porn sex' here before, and that's pretty much the best description I can give of it.

Physically, I've never had sex this good in my life, and I can't imagine anybody could top her - no exaggeration.

It's so confusing.
No, Alex, it's not confusing. It makes perfect sense.

She does not want to hand over control. It's that simple. In the occasions where Dr. J2 and I have our intimate moments, it's phenomenal. Hours, literally. So I know she enjoys it. The whole anticipation, pregame... the works. Then drought.

It's all part of the process of them feeling in control. The moment you upset the balance they feel threatened.

That's what SLA is all about (service level agreement).
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post #66 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-07-2017, 10:17 PM
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Re: Thoughts on this

Hmm?

Like clockwork.....it is scheduled, like porn sex.

Porn sex....an initial BJ, then every position tried, yes? A lot of action, lots of moaning?

It is a performance. It is duty-sex on steroids. She is good, she has you fooled. I think she has watched "porn sex" just for pointers.

Repeat, it is duty-sex on steroids.

This is to keep YOU sated, to keep you from leaving. She knows you are frustrated.

The scheduling? Classic "Obsessive Compulsive Disorder", OCD.

She prepares for this "Act" all week........but only in her mind.

I see this as forced behavior, on her part. I also think she needs you a lot.

Love? Of course, but on her terms.

Answer? Short of leaving her........none.

Life is not always fair and it is never easy.

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out.

The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall... Saved from harm by my friends.
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post #67 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-07-2017, 10:29 PM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Originally Posted by alexm View Post
I'm at the point now where I simply don't want this anymore, but I'm at a crossroads about what to do. My only recourse that I can see at this point in time is to reject and/or avoid these scheduled sessions, but in all likelihood it'd backfire. I'm just not enthusiastic about it anymore, even though it's my only real sexual outlet.
You have way more recourse than that, and I don't mean cheating.
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post #68 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-07-2017, 10:37 PM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Originally Posted by alexm View Post
Not a performance (or if it is, it's A++!). I won't be 'that guy' who says "I can tell she's not faking", lol, because WTF do I really know about women, anyway?

What I do know is that she wouldn't bother faking this for this long, at this level.

She LIKES sex, she likes sex with ME - just once a week, with none of the stuff that goes on before or after, at any other time throughout the week, or even that DAY.
How is your romance and general intimacy not about sex working out? Are you passionate about wanting her? Not, I am so horny get me off kind of way, the I am hungry for YOU kind of way. Ever just get her off for her pleasure? No strings attached?
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post #69 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-07-2017, 10:41 PM
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Re: Thoughts on this

Some folks like schedules and that includes scheduled sex. I like that - I do. Always have. Including sex.

M2 is a big fan of schedules for everything except sex. Where sex is concerned she likes random and spontaneous.....

She kind of humors me in this area.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozzy View Post
That's good. If she's legit enjoying it, Mem's advice may work.

Is she this rigid with other aspects of her life, or just this area?
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post #70 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-08-2017, 06:14 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

I have enough spreadsheets in my life, the last thing I'd want to do is manage one on the frequency of sex with my husband. That's what this makes me think of.

Sorry that you're struggling with this, Alex. I wish I had a new idea to pass your way but neither Odo nor I are LD. We have periods of low activity when I'm traveling. If one of us doesn't feel "up for" sex, then maybe we each keep it in the back of our minds for engagement later. We both believe that sex is a primary way we bond. I feel the bond slightly deteriorate if it's been more than 3-4 days. So does he.

We are both pretty open and lewd. I'll be washing dishes in the sink and he'll hug me from behind and push his hardon against my bum and whisper that it makes him rigid watching me be all domestic. And, since it's my fault, what am I going to do about it? Even if it's not a good time (and he knows this) it plants the seed. He kisses my neck and walks away without further pressure. I feel desired and it gives me a little love boost from him. I'm also somewhat flushed as I finish my chores.

Your wife may not be as responsive to this. Maybe you've tried a lighter version of this already to see she does respond. I just can't fathom scheduling sex. It would make me feel like it's one more thing to put on the calendar because of our busy lives.

"If you deliberately plan on being less than you are capable of being, then I warn you that you'll be unhappy for the rest of your life."

~ Abraham Maslow
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post #71 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-08-2017, 06:55 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capster View Post
Yeah, bad plan. A man needs to initiate when he wants sex, not avoid it. That's a beta move.

How do you initiate sex? I wouldn't consider "Hey, let's go upstairs" as initiating. That's talking about sex. When I broke my wife's habit I stripped and locked the door, then jumped on top of her. Initiate hard with your actions, not with your words. If need be, let her turn you down 5 times in a row, that way at least she knows she's doing it. Saying no when you ask her to go upstairs doesn't really feel like a turndown to her. When you're naked and jump on top of her, or throw her to the bed and start making out, then at least she knows you're initiating like an alpha not a beta.
This is really sexy.

I agree it may not work with a LD like Alex's wife. But it is really sexy, nonetheless.

I would not advise "jumping" on top of her, though. Sounds desperate.

Just hearing my husband lock the door and then turning around to see his naked, fit body would definitely be a turn on. Coming calmly towards me, eyes on mine, with intent, would definitely have me under him quickly. How could I resist?

There really should be a thread with "start up" suggestions like this . . .

Alex, I hope you will not go the passive aggressive route as you were considering earlier. Please just talk to her openly and honestly, as Livvie suggested.

The suggestion to try sex therapy is also good, imo.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #72 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-08-2017, 09:53 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

Like @Satya and Odo whose participation here I still miss, I do the same thing to my wife. Since it's nice to tease her sexually for a brief moment, during times when neither of us is going to do anything. To the point that it excites both of us, and it frequently puts my wife into the mindset of wanting to have sex later.

Doing this is all very low key to begin with and is done in passing with escalation, in a very brief way that is quite playful with an explicit sexual edge.

So it can be as simple as walking up to her while she's reading or hanging out the washing. Then gently kissing her neck for a moment or sliding my teeth down the back of her neck and then walking away. Then maybe half an hour or more frequently an hour later, I will do it again only what I do is different, so I will kiss her lips rather provocatively and linger, then smile and again walk.

Then I will see her a bit later and I will say show me and she will reveal something and I will go about my day. Then I will in passing walk up to her and lift up her dress and then firmly grip her behind while moving her underwear out of the way and she will feel me as I bend her over and then I stop, smile and again walk away.

For years we've maintained this buzz of sexual anticipation and excitement. The only limits are your imagination.

You can draw this out when you have time or compress it when you don't, flirting and touching for us happens every day even when we don't end up taking the time to share sex. If we didn't flirt and build up tension all of the time, I doubt we would share that much sex with each other.

I don't know if you've done this with your wife, yet I think it's worth a shot if you have tried in the past and gotten nowhere. Plus I don't think you need to do this to have sex. There are lots of times when the flirting and building of sexual tension, without consummation on that day can be really nice.

I know we can become set in our ways, yet we can also often change as well. My wife waited until she was almost 26 to have sex, which would rightly give some people pause as a red flag in terms of sexual drive yet she's really into sex.

Plus she has evolved over time, where years ago she would never flashed me while we're out. While for the past few years she now finds it very exciting to do exactly that, she says she doesn't know why yet it now turns her on when I tell her to show me stuff and she checks to see no one is around and does exactly that.

If you're open to make mistakes, laugh about it when things are clumsy and give it a go, your wife might surprise you along the way as she gets older. Don't pretend to be what you're not, but do have the confidence to try to lead her where you would like to go sexually. And do laugh with her when things seem out of the norm for you both.

As to not want to ride the schedule merry go round, you could just say "I don't want it right now, but I'll let you know when I do".

Then you can try the flirting, while keeping it very low key for a while without going after sex. Then later at other times escalate and build it more explicitly, to the point that you can walk her to the lounge, or the table, standing up, leaning her against the wall or even get her to the bed and then have your way with her. By building that tension, a woman can want to be consumed in the moment before you get them in bed. Although beds are great for sex and as we get older more comfy, don't discount all sorts of places except the bed and don't think sex needs to be a big production for it to be so deeply luscious.

All of that said I don't have any magic answers I get things wrong plenty of times as well, you're just as capable as me or anyone else. Maybe you have both got yourself stuck in a rut that has become a trench. I figure you can both find a way to errect some ladders to get out of it, by not discounting that you both do change along the way.
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post #73 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-08-2017, 10:49 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozzy View Post
That's good. If she's legit enjoying it, Mem's advice may work.

Is she this rigid with other aspects of her life, or just this area?
Trouble is that with a stand-off, the winner is always the most determined. Or the most stubborn.
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post #74 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-08-2017, 04:15 PM
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Re: Thoughts on this

Alex,
This is where - that delivery style issue - hurts you.

In totality - your sex life IS making you feel bad.

There is no shame in that. No reason to blur the picture.




Quote:
Originally Posted by alexm View Post
I hear you.

I wouldn't say it makes me feel bad, just empty. It's become meaningless, other than to get off. Perhaps she's feeling an emotional connection during this, I don't actually know, TBH, but I'm not any more.

For some people, scheduling works. There have been entire threads about that subject. But in each case, both people actually require sex, I think, and they make it an emotional event, including anticipating the evening together, or going out on a date, or whatever. We don't have that. Whether we're out doing something, with people or just the two of us, or sitting on the couch, or hanging with the kids - it's the same thing every time. There's no giddy excitement about what's to come later that evening, or even in 5 minutes.
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post #75 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-08-2017, 04:19 PM
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Re: Thoughts on this

Pure gold.

A mix of passion and control.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Personal View Post
Like @Satya and Odo whose participation here I still miss, I do the same thing to my wife. Since it's nice to tease her sexually for a brief moment, during times when neither of us is going to do anything. To the point that it excites both of us, and it frequently puts my wife into the mindset of wanting to have sex later.

Doing this is all very low key to begin with and is done in passing with escalation, in a very brief way that is quite playful with an explicit sexual edge.

So it can be as simple as walking up to her while she's reading or hanging out the washing. Then gently kissing her neck for a moment or sliding my teeth down the back of her neck and then walking away. Then maybe half an hour or more frequently an hour later, I will do it again only what I do is different, so I will kiss her lips rather provocatively and linger, then smile and again walk.

Then I will see her a bit later and I will say show me and she will reveal something and I will go about my day. Then I will in passing walk up to her and lift up her dress and then firmly grip her behind while moving her underwear out of the way and she will feel me as I bend her over and then I stop, smile and again walk away.

For years we've maintained this buzz of sexual anticipation and excitement. The only limits are your imagination.

You can draw this out when you have time or compress it when you don't, flirting and touching for us happens every day even when we don't end up taking the time to share sex. If we didn't flirt and build up tension all of the time, I doubt we would share that much sex with each other.

I don't know if you've done this with your wife, yet I think it's worth a shot if you have tried in the past and gotten nowhere. Plus I don't think you need to do this to have sex. There are lots of times when the flirting and building of sexual tension, without consummation on that day can be really nice.

I know we can become set in our ways, yet we can also often change as well. My wife waited until she was almost 26 to have sex, which would rightly give some people pause as a red flag in terms of sexual drive yet she's really into sex.

Plus she has evolved over time, where years ago she would never flashed me while we're out. While for the past few years she now finds it very exciting to do exactly that, she says she doesn't know why yet it now turns her on when I tell her to show me stuff and she checks to see no one is around and does exactly that.

If you're open to make mistakes, laugh about it when things are clumsy and give it a go, your wife might surprise you along the way as she gets older. Don't pretend to be what you're not, but do have the confidence to try to lead her where you would like to go sexually. And do laugh with her when things seem out of the norm for you both.

As to not want to ride the schedule merry go round, you could just say "I don't want it right now, but I'll let you know when I do".

Then you can try the flirting, while keeping it very low key for a while without going after sex. Then later at other times escalate and build it more explicitly, to the point that you can walk her to the lounge, or the table, standing up, leaning her against the wall or even get her to the bed and then have your way with her. By building that tension, a woman can want to be consumed in the moment before you get them in bed. Although beds are great for sex and as we get older more comfy, don't discount all sorts of places except the bed and don't think sex needs to be a big production for it to be so deeply luscious.

All of that said I don't have any magic answers I get things wrong plenty of times as well, you're just as capable as me or anyone else. Maybe you have both got yourself stuck in a rut that has become a trench. I figure you can both find a way to errect some ladders to get out of it, by not discounting that you both do change along the way.
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