Thoughts on this - Page 51 - Talk About Marriage
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post #751 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 11:17 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

I would like to say, too, that for the first 14 years we were together, Dug and I lived together. Other than when he was travelling, we were nearly always together, and with our children (no babysitters). And we have always been close, and had an active sex life.

I just strongly disagree that it is necessary to create physical distance to create sexual interest and physical intimacy. It is necessary to create emotional closeness to create sexual interest and physical intimacy, in our experience.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #752 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 11:17 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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I understand how you would think such, and I do have resentment over it.

But I love jujitsu. I see it as more opportunity to pursue something else that I love.

When I am grappling, I am not thinking of how I am hoping this is hurting my wife. I am focused on how much I enjoy learning the art.
Why Jiu jitsu.It's one of the down and dirty martial arts.I'm surprised that if you wanted to learn to fight you would select this art.Too much grappling on the floor for me.
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post #753 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 11:20 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Lovely! Yes, heartfelt discussions are a nice way to bond and grow intimacy. And, like I said earlier, I agree that closeness is important ... and that distance can be a real disaster, relationship killer.

But at the same time, you have absolutely witnessed the push-pull in your relationship, and your dynamic as you describe it is very much about him being aloof and you chasing him. There is no need for distance in your dynamic because you already have too much. (Not saying that he does this on purpose, or that it isn't just how your personalities mesh. Just that it is.)

All I'm suggesting is that your emphasis on connection to the exclusion of other things may be largely because that is absolutely what is needed in your relationship. It could be the opposite with a different dynamic.

If all of a sudden your husband was all about you, closeness with you, chasing you around, you might, for example, find yourself pulling back from him.
Oh, jade, that just sounds heavenly! Like bathing in love!

I'd just like to have the chance to try it.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #754 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 11:21 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Just an example: someone is suggesting that Alex's wife may be faking it with (IMO) pretty limited information to justify this assertion. Alex's concern was not even whether she was faking it or not, but about the 'regularity' aspect of it. Now he might begin doubting pushing and testing this hypothesis (probably not him, but somebody in his situation might) and end up breaking the whole thing.

That's your butterfly right there.

I guess no risk warning is necessary since everyone coming to the forums will be aware of this risk. It's just important to acknowledge that we are working with very little facts and very complex issues...
You are right that I said this with very limited information, and it is true that I could be way off base. Really, it was an observation that as described, alexm's wife's responses were just a little too perfectly pat to be real. Especially given her rigidity about scheduling and complete disinterest at other times.

This doesn't mean she is all "fake" -- or even mostly so. Just that she may be putting on a bit of a show to enhance his enjoyment and keep him happy. And that therefore his perception of her total multi-orgasmic passion and thrill may not be the whole reality from her perspective.

It's not like spouses are perfectly honest with each other about what they think and feel ....
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post #755 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 11:22 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Oh, jade, that just sounds heavenly! Like bathing in love!

I'd just like to have the chance to try it.
Unfortunately, I think you might have to play some games to get yourself there. And so, you might not feel too good about yourself making it happen.
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post #756 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 11:28 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Do you disagree with him altogether, or do you think you and Dug might be the exception, not the rule?

I feel the same way about connecting emotionally- if we're in the same room but doing separate things and not engaging, it doesn't do much for me. But while my husband sends me texts to check in, they don't do the same for me as his engaged physical presence.
Well, we Facetime every night. If that is not possible, we talk on the phone. I don't think texting is enough, either, although it is appreciated in a pinch. His voice is very calming and reassuring to me.

I am not sure about whether or not we are the exception. But I hate to see people chase the wrong thing, you know? So I read these posts and really check my gut as well as my brain against them. I want people to see the shortcuts to a good relationship, and focus on those.

To me, emotional connection is crucial in modern marriage. Yes, physical time together is wonderful. But emotional connection is essential, and truly the key, to a satisfying, long lasting relationship.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #757 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 11:29 AM
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Unfortunately, I think you might have to play some games to get yourself there. And so, you might not feel too good about yourself making it happen.
I am way too honest to play games, jade. It would not work. And I would feel stupid even trying.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #758 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 11:30 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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I hate to say it, but it sure does sound like faking ... at least on some level, some of the time.

True, most of orgasm is in the brain -- I know I will orgasm 100% of the time because, basically, that is my mindset. IF he can't make it happen, I will. So maybe she could pull it off, with the right attitude and approach.

Still, to be that easily responsive no matter where she is stimulated is pretty rare. I would think she either has to spend a great deal of effort to work herself up for the 20-30 minute window of arousal, or she somehow has way more pleasure centres than just about any other woman alive. And if she really is that much of a powder keg, the whole scheduling mostly ND thing just doesn't compute. If I had that many pleasure centres, I'd probably never manage to do anything other than sex ever.

Or, given the predictability of her routine and responses, that at least some of it is purely for show for your benefit.
My wife is exactly the same in that respect: when it's "sex time", she is totally into it and enjoys things even I find surprising (I say "even" because pornhub has clearly left an impression on me from my youth as I vaguely recognize some of the "techniques"). I'm 100% certain she is not faking her enjoyment nor her ability to come when it "comes" to it
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post #759 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 11:31 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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You are right that I said this with very limited information, and it is true that I could be way off base. Really, it was an observation that as described, alexm's wife's responses were just a little too perfectly pat to be real. Especially given her rigidity about scheduling and complete disinterest at other times.

This doesn't mean she is all "fake" -- or even mostly so. Just that she may be putting on a bit of a show to enhance his enjoyment and keep him happy. And that therefore his perception of her total multi-orgasmic passion and thrill may not be the whole reality from her perspective.

It's not like spouses are perfectly honest with each other about what they think and feel ....
That just seems so sad to me, that any woman would feel that way. Like she is trying to pacify a child.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #760 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 11:34 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Sit back and think of any activity that you do with your partner that is beneficial to you both and to the relationship. Also consider the opportunity cost. Maybe you and him can't afford to go on a cruise four times a year or don't have two weeks to ride your matching Harley's cross country to Sturgis. But you can do a 20 miles bike ride today, it's nice and 75F and nothing major on the horizon.

Why would you NOT do it. In fact, why would you go out of your way to find reasons not to. "Sorry Luv, it's Sunday, and our designated bike ride day is Friday".

This is not projection. Replace intimacy with another activity and you'll see the absurdity of the situation.
I don't think that's what it would be like in Alex's case in case he approached her? His problem was not about rejection.

I can very well believe that in your case, it might be different!
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post #761 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 11:42 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Yes, some people cannot handle long distances.

Dug is gone often. But he makes sure to check in emotionally. That is *so* important.

I am sure he thinks it is dumb how much I like TAM. He does not want to spend time reading here and making posts.

But it is such a deposit in my emotional bank account when he does! I have much higher needs for interaction and discussion on emotional topics than he does. And when he participates in that, I feel loved and close to him.
Ah! A first case of a HEN vs LEN situation perhaps? (high emotional needs vs low emotional needs). Is TAM emotional porn?? Not sure my wife will approve of it...
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post #762 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 11:45 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Why Jiu jitsu.It's one of the down and dirty martial arts.I'm surprised that if you wanted to learn to fight you would select this art.Too much grappling on the floor for me.
It is technically fascinating.

It is the thinking man's martial art.

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #763 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 11:51 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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That just seems so sad to me, that any woman would feel that way. Like she is trying to pacify a child.
Why is it like trying to pacify a child? She knows he wants good sex, and she provides it for him.

How is that different from any other spouse providing for any other desire their partner might have?

According to you, your husband thinks hanging out on TAM is dumb, but he does it to make you happy. Same diff, no?
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post #764 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 11:52 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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I think some of us have never really had the experience of a "too attentive, too solicitous" man. That may be part of why we run panting after our husbands, seeking their attention.

And there is surely a difference between a man who just genuinely wants to attend to a woman, and one who does so expecting something in return.
Oh I am not sure you want to explore that rabbit hole...I could show you that almost anything we do in life is on some level for selfish reasons, including loving our spouses or even....(dear lord, don't let me bring you into this again....I won't...Thank you

The problem is not with selfishness per se: it is absolutely fine to be selfish to a certain degree that does not harm others. IMO.
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post #765 of 1530 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 11:57 AM
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It is technically fascinating.

It is the thinking man's martial art.
Have you ever considered aikido.That is a martial art you have to think about. I've been practicing martial arts since I was a kid.Twenty four years a karate student but I have branched out over the years to kickboxing and weapons.I find aikido fascinating though.My best friend is one of the highest ranking woman practitioners in the US.
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