Thoughts on this - Page 7 - Talk About Marriage
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post #91 of 1926 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 07:22 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Originally Posted by MEM2020 View Post
John,
I think that is generally the case. The control theme. Thing is - there's two sides to this coin. LD: control
HD: Ego protection

And you my man - are a poster child for the latter. It's why you can't see the catalyst for J2's slow motion implosion.

At a certain point - she figured out that you love the girls more - way more - than you love her. Love - in this case - quantitatively expressed in budgets. As in: the best is barely good enough for the girls
And the 'best' as it pertains to J2's desires - was met with thinly veiled contempt.
Not quite, as the fireworks started long before the tuition checks started flowing.

And, ego protection has nothing to do with it as well. Everyone has a need to be loved, regardless of imperfections.

Thanks for making my point tho 😀
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post #92 of 1926 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 07:24 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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MEM, why do you think LD is about control? Why is it not just about preference?
When you deprive your own self of the benefits of intimacy it is 100% control.

You also make my point about TAM.... This is self evident territory 😀
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post #93 of 1926 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 07:26 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Originally Posted by alexm View Post
I don't think it's about control, but the person who is LD requires it to maintain their self-imposed 'ideal' amount of sex, or sexual contact OR to keep it at their maximum amount of sex or sexual contact. (my wife is the latter, with once a week being her max, not her ideal.)
Bingo. That's what SLA is all about.

Can it be fixed without nuclear option?
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post #94 of 1926 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 08:12 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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I don't think they are mutually exclusive. Control is exerted because there is a preference.

Now, what led to that preference may be their natural drive, a history of sexual assault, poor treatment by the other spouse, or anywhere in between.

However, control is necessary to remain LD, and every LD I can recall who has come on to TAM to talk about it is clearly desiring such. F2 is no different.
Well, maybe I am just not getting it. To me, it does not seem like control.

But this is probably a subject for a separate thread.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #95 of 1926 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 08:19 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

One of the most basic psych experiments is the kid and candy experiment. You tell a kid he can have one piece of candy today or wait till tomorrow to get two pieces.

Intimacy is no different. The subject exerts control by depriving themselves - and their partners - of an important resource.

I would elaborate more but this is pretty simple stuff. The pleasure derived from control is more than that from the benefit.
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post #96 of 1926 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by alexm View Post
Update #1 - no sex last night, but I didn't have to avoid or reject. Went to bed at the same time after being out most of the night (but not too late). She wanted to snuggle, so we did for a while. I imagine she was expecting it would turn into something, but I kept my hands to myself.

I actually enjoyed the cuddling, knowing that it wasn't going to turn into something. We talked about the evening, and plans for today. Eventually I rolled over and slept like a baby.

I have no doubt she went to bed wondering why I didn't make a move for sex, but I don't think she was too upset about it, either.

So there you go - I stuck to my guns and didn't have to make an issue out of it.

Keep in mind, folks, I'm not doing this to prove a point to her, so much as I'm just not happy with things the way they are at the moment. Sex on her schedule doesn't make me feel good. Talking to her about it has accomplished nothing. This isn't a protest or a 'work-to-rule' so much as it is me just not wanting to feel empty. If she had been aggressive last night, I wouldn't have stopped her, or pushed her off or anything - I don't want to totally reject her, as that would be very counter productive.

But Hope has the right idea in regards to her husband and my similar issue - I'm not going to chase this any longer. We happened to go to bed at the same time last night, I didn't go to bed because she was going to bed, therefore that was my chance, or my 'opening'. As Hope said, her sex life is essentially the same as mine, but instead of bedtime, once a week, it's morning, once a week. If she's awake before her hubby, she'll wait for him to wake up and then do what he normally does, and she gets laid. If he wakes before her, she'll be woken up by him for sex.

So, like her, we're both working around our spouses schedule, on the one day a week, and that one time, where we know it's going to happen if we just follow their rules. Yeah, we know we can get laid at that one time, but we have no control over it.

For me, it's a shift in mindset. I had been conditioned (like Pavlov's dog) to get my sex fix at that day and time. So yes, I was getting laid, but I had no control over any of it.
I think that's great that you didn't initiate an experience that would have been be a negative emotional experience for you!! I have a history? with this, too. I was in a relationship post divorce in which my partner controlled when sex happened. I eventually stopped contorting my time/life to adhere to his only offered scheduled time, and also I stopped wanting sex with him. It just wasn't a good or healthy dynamic. Not even close to happy or fulfilling.

What is your next step, though? Your wife's mindset and schedule remain. How many weeks can you go without sex? Aren't you absolutely going to have to talk to her about this?
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post #97 of 1926 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 08:49 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

Scheduled sex can feel like duty sex, we all want to be lusted after and feel validated. The problem is that you don't discuss with your partner that you want to feel desired by them and then they don't want sex on the scheduled night, the rejection could feel all the more worse.

We can't read our spouses minds, that's why we need to talk.
There's nothing wrong with saying "I want you to desire me" most people are afraid if they say this the answer will not be good, so sometimes they don't ask, because that is the biggest hurt of all, being married to someone who doesn't desire you sexually anymore.


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post #98 of 1926 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 08:53 AM
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Scheduled sex can feel like duty sex, we all want to be lusted after and feel validated. The problem is that you don't discuss with your partner that you want to feel desired by them and then they don't want sex on the scheduled night, the rejection could feel all the more worse.

We can't read our spouses minds, that's why we need to talk.
There's nothing wrong with saying "I want you to desire me" most people are afraid if they say this the answer will not be good, so sometimes they don't ask, because that is the biggest hurt of all, being married to someone who doesn't desire you sexually anymore.


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I'm pretty sure OP and his wife have discussed this. She doesn't desire him, she straight out doesn't think about sex or look forward to it.
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post #99 of 1926 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 08:56 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Originally Posted by john117 View Post
One of the most basic psych experiments is the kid and candy experiment. You tell a kid he can have one piece of candy today or wait till tomorrow to get two pieces.

Intimacy is no different. The subject exerts control by depriving themselves - and their partners - of an important resource.

I would elaborate more but this is pretty simple stuff. The pleasure derived from control is more than that from the benefit.
I completely understand your line of thinking, but I'm over here laughing at all of this. If someone wants to open a new thread on this subject - I'll happily participate as the LD test subject, for whatever limited viewpoint I can offer!

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post #100 of 1926 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Livvie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexm View Post
Update #1 - no sex last night, but I didn't have to avoid or reject. Went to bed at the same time after being out most of the night (but not too late). She wanted to snuggle, so we did for a while. I imagine she was expecting it would turn into something, but I kept my hands to myself.

I actually enjoyed the cuddling, knowing that it wasn't going to turn into something. We talked about the evening, and plans for today. Eventually I rolled over and slept like a baby.

I have no doubt she went to bed wondering why I didn't make a move for sex, but I don't think she was too upset about it, either.

So there you go - I stuck to my guns and didn't have to make an issue out of it.

Keep in mind, folks, I'm not doing this to prove a point to her, so much as I'm just not happy with things the way they are at the moment. Sex on her schedule doesn't make me feel good. Talking to her about it has accomplished nothing. This isn't a protest or a 'work-to-rule' so much as it is me just not wanting to feel empty. If she had been aggressive last night, I wouldn't have stopped her, or pushed her off or anything - I don't want to totally reject her, as that would be very counter productive.

But Hope has the right idea in regards to her husband and my similar issue - I'm not going to chase this any longer. We happened to go to bed at the same time last night, I didn't go to bed because she was going to bed, therefore that was my chance, or my 'opening'. As Hope said, her sex life is essentially the same as mine, but instead of bedtime, once a week, it's morning, once a week. If she's awake before her hubby, she'll wait for him to wake up and then do what he normally does, and she gets laid. If he wakes before her, she'll be woken up by him for sex.

So, like her, we're both working around our spouses schedule, on the one day a week, and that one time, where we know it's going to happen if we just follow their rules. Yeah, we know we can get laid at that one time, but we have no control over it.

For me, it's a shift in mindset. I had been conditioned (like Pavlov's dog) to get my sex fix at that day and time. So yes, I was getting laid, but I had no control over any of it.
I think that's great that you didn't initiate an experience that would have been be a negative emotional experience for you!! I have a history with this, too. I was in a relationship post divorce in which my partner controlled when sex happened. I eventually stopped contorting my time/life to adhere to his only offered scheduled time, and also I stopped wanting sex with him. It just wasn't a good or healthy dynamic. Not even close to happy or fulfilling.

What is your next step, though? Your wife's mindset and schedule remain. How many weeks can you go without sex? Aren't you absolutely going to have to talk to her about this?
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post #101 of 1926 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 09:14 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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I'm pretty sure OP and his wife have discussed this. She doesn't desire him, she straight out doesn't think about sex or look forward to it.
And yet he wants her to flirt during the week before sex.
He wants to feel some passion and desire from her.

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post #102 of 1926 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 09:41 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

I would love to know that I could look forward to sex once every week; without fail.

Just the fact that my husband would schedule it, would show that he wanted sex with me.

I'm sorry alexm. I'm not making light of your situation. Everything is relative; and I think you are younger than me by about 10 years or so. It's different at 51 than it is at 41, no doubt.

And my statement sounds like "Clean your plate, do you know how many starving children in China would love to eat those brussel sprouts?"

But, your situation sounds pretty good to me. When you feel bad; look beneath you.

btw, "Let's go upstairs" sounds super sexy to me. Someone upthread said it sounded "beta", or whatever. I don't think so at all.


It's like having a date every Sunday, where you know you'll be getting sex.

But, nevertheless, I hope it gets better for you.
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post #103 of 1926 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 09:45 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

Alex, if she likes the cuddling, how about just initiating cuddling sessions for a while?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #104 of 1926 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 10:07 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Originally Posted by kag123 View Post
I completely understand your line of thinking, but I'm over here laughing at all of this. If someone wants to open a new thread on this subject - I'll happily participate as the LD test subject, for whatever limited viewpoint I can offer!

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Are you self cognizant enough to acknowledge your innate state of mind ?This is the clarity that I see missing. For most people, things just are. Without a real explanation.

They may be able to rationalize an answer, but for the most part they make it up as they go. To themselves, and by association, to everyone else.
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post #105 of 1926 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 10:08 AM
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Re: Thoughts on this

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Alex, if she likes the cuddling, how about just initiating cuddling sessions for a while?
She could even be reading her favorite book while you cuddle.

Oops, old thread 😀
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