I need help with sustaining my marriage - Page 3 - Talk About Marriage
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post #31 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 12:42 PM
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Re: I need help with sustaining my marriage

Picpea, are you a person of faith?

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #32 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 01:10 PM
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Re: I need help with sustaining my marriage

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seek&find: I don't think it's fair to say that people shouldn't be married... Do you think all sexual assault victims should just bury themselves into a hole? I know that my husband would be happier without me. Maybe I'm selfish for being with him... Just because I experienced a trauma does not mean I'm not allowed to love someone... I'm not trying to ruin his life or his happiness... I gave him the okay to sleep with other women if he wanted to... that wasn't for me... I love my husband. I don't want to hurt him or lose him... Trust me, I feel bad all the time.
No, I do not think that all rape victims are broken or should be avoided. Reading between the lines this isn't a case of a woman being questionably raped while drunk or by her husband or partner. There appears to be A LOT more going on and yes, some people are too broke to have functional relationships. From what you have posted I think you and your husband are bringing each other down. He is holding you back, putting too much pressure on you and making you feel worse about yourself through his own issues. You are bringing him down with you and forcing him to be in a place and mindset that he doesn't need to be in. Misery loves company, but it doesn't need it. What do you get from this marriage, anyway?
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post #33 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 05:50 PM
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Re: I need help with sustaining my marriage

I never even really knew what I meant by own it, when I told her that. She had wanted to forget, but she couldn't. We talked a few times a week for two years before I came up with that idea. I sat with her and had her describe it to me. We cried. I held her. Her trauma wasn't as bad, but it's not wise to quantify. She was beaten, threatened, it was a relative, and it was ongoing for months. She never told anyone because of the threats. A 13 year old couldn't know he wouldn't be able to carry out his threats.

Traumas are horrible. Yours was horrible. My heart bleeds for you. But your husband can hold you. Some traumas aren't survived, and the loved ones can only mourn. For a while that may seem a better resolution, but it isn't. Not really.

Many people are damaged in some way. It may be little, or larger. One thing that is important is for your husband to accept the scars. My wife has scars, from surgeries when she had Tuberculosis. It is not considered a trauma because no one did it to her, it just happened. But I trace her scars with my fingers and tell her she is so cute I am amazed by her. She tells stories about how people tried to cut her head off. My wife also has a scoliosis. She used to wear a bikini in her youth anyway. I was proud of her, even when people could see the curve in her spine. It's important for the ones who love you to accept you the way you are. I knew a girl in class in university, who had back surgery at some point. She had a friend draw laces on her scar and wore backless dresses every day, so it looked like she had a lace up back. We all deal differently, but hiding never seemed to work.

I don't have any idea how someone can come to accept such a trauma. But I also don't know how we can come to accept deaths. Surely accepting you in your beauty and scars, spirit and fears, is better than not having you to hold.

Please be well
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post #34 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 05:52 PM
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Re: I need help with sustaining my marriage

Thank you @WilliamM. That was beautiful.

When you can see it coming, duck!
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post #35 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 06:04 PM
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Re: I need help with sustaining my marriage

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Fozzy: I wish my husband would go to therapy and stick with it. He has gone in the past, alone and together. In the beginning of our journey he went a lot but it has slowly decreased over time. Now he rarely goes, alone or with me. He thinks it is a waste of time and isn't getting us anywhere. He has also expressed that he thinks therapists are just holding us back so we keep going back and putting money in their pockets.

Intimacy is made harder because my body triggers him. I had scar removal done on certain parts, like my wrists because they made it painful and difficult to move my wrists and because they bothered me, and my husband. I hated seeing them and always kept my wrists covered, if other people saw them they stared. It's obvious what kind of scars they are, or were - less obvious now. At least it was obvious to me, it may not have been to other people. I had a kid ask me if I had my hands cut off and reattached... I had scar removal done on my arm but it didn't work and now I keep that one covered all the time because it's a massive trigger for my husband. I keep a large bandaid over it all the time and it has basically become part of me now, only coming off to be replaced by another every few days. The odd time I have forgot to replace it or my husband has walked in while I was doing it he tells me to cover it up and gets upset or mad (not at me). Sometimes just accidentally touching the bandaid can bother him. That scar at least could be covered decently well with a tattoo, probably. I know I would have a hard time with the pain of a tattoo.

He avoids my back like the plague. I haven't had any scar removal there, mostly because it is a huge trigger point for me and having pain there is hard for me to deal with. The scars are uncomfortable, it makes rotating my body and bending over uncomfortable and insanely itchy, but not enough for me to try and fix it. I don't scar well and have elevated scars. I keep my whole back covered all the time unless I am home alone. There has been times when my husband came home early and I would run upstairs before he came in to change my shirt or put on a sweater. He doesn't want to see it... Because they are elevated he won't/can't even touch my back over clothing. The scars take up the width of my back... so they aren't easy to avoid. I'm not about to go out in public showing my back, but it would be nice if I could at least feel comfortable at home... I think those scars bother me the least because I can't really see them...

seek&find: I don't think it's fair to say that people shouldn't be married... Do you think all sexual assault victims should just bury themselves into a hole? I know that my husband would be happier without me. Maybe I'm selfish for being with him... Just because I experienced a trauma does not mean I'm not allowed to love someone... I'm not trying to ruin his life or his happiness... I gave him the okay to sleep with other women if he wanted to... that wasn't for me... I love my husband. I don't want to hurt him or lose him... Trust me, I feel bad all the time.

WilliamM: You are right that I do need to keep trying different methods and options until I find something that works for me. Some things that worked in the past don't work anymore and I have to find something else.

farsidejunky: Doing things that trigger me is something that I have difficulty with. In the past I did a lot of exposure therapy, if I remember correctly I did 3 different variations that are classed as exposure therapy. It definitely helped with some triggers. There use to be certain sounds that triggered me, now I can hear them and I immediately notice them but I can continue on with what I'm doing. There are certain people who trigger me based on their physical appearance and that one is kind of iffy. Sometimes I'm okay, sometimes I'm not. I use to go insane if there was silence, listening to every tiny sound trying to figure out what it is, I can handle that now. The "bigger" things have been a lot harder and I quit when I wasn't seeing progress. I try and push myself through some situations, and I usually feel better after it's over than if I quit and walk away. I probably need to try it again or something similar. Something that I hate thinking about is that in 20, 30, 70 years this is still going to be something that bothers me at least from time to time.

WilliamM": I'm glad that woman is doing better now. I wish I could enjoy sex again, that seems so far out of reach... Some aspects of it are impossible to enjoy again. I just want to be close to my husband and have that bond and experiences with him again.

I suck at trying to own it. It is always going to be a part of me, but I want it to just go away. Afterwards I had a pretty bad head injury and I was told that I might not be able to remember all or parts of it, I wish that would have been true. I had a surgery and when I woke up the first thing I thought was I still remember. You are right that I need to own it. I don't really blame myself anymore, but I am always trying to run away from it.
Picpea, here's my completely amateur, uneducated opinion. You can stay in therapy as long as you like, but if your husband is going to keep acting like this--insisting you stay covered up, etc. it's going to take you a lot longer to get healthy. His actions and attitudes are holding you back. How are you supposed to accept yourself when your husband is constantly making you feel inadequate? I'm not saying it would be impossible, but I'd bet a lot of money that it's a hell of a lot harder.

Darling it's better down where it's wetter, take it from me! --- Sebastian
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post #36 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 10:53 PM Thread Starter
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Re: I need help with sustaining my marriage

farsidejunky: I'm not religious or spiritual in the slightest, it's kind of hard to be now.

seek&find: Everything anyone else gets from a marriage, other than an orgasm...

WilliamM: I wish my husband would be like that. Sometimes I wish I had died instead. It feels like it would have been easier for everyone. My husband has the option to hold me, but he doesn't really want to. I have some scars from unrelated medical procedures that my husband has never batted an eyelash at. But the ones that I really need him not to mind are the ones that he doesn't want to see or touch. He doesn't want to work on it, and I don't think I'm worth it to him.

I wish I had the courage to go out without covering my scars. I wouldn't be able to deal with people asking what they are or making assumptions. Maybe if they didn't have such a humiliating cause.

Fozzy: I wish I could relax with my husband, and not constantly be worried about how my body is positioned, what part he can see or what he might accidentally touch. Your comment is right though... He isn't helping. He doesn't seem interested in trying to fix it, so my posting all of this may have been a waste... He won't talk to me about it and gets more distant by the day. He hasn't even bothered to come home yet tonight (midnight).
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post #37 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 10:58 PM
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Re: I need help with sustaining my marriage

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farsidejunky: I'm not religious or spiritual in the slightest, it's kind of hard to be now.
In what way?

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #38 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 11:15 PM Thread Starter
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Re: I need help with sustaining my marriage

If there was some type of higher power or reason for this life things like this wouldn't happen. There is no need for them to happen. It wasn't meant to be or for the greater good of anything. I was raised in a two religion household, I can appreciate religion but I don't believe in it.
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post #39 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 11:35 PM
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Re: I need help with sustaining my marriage

I'm sorry you interpret things that way.

In fairness, I have never faced anything as traumatic as you.

I think the thing that made me pursue this line of questioning with you that you sound devoid of hope. My relationship with God is one of the few things that provides me hope when times are tough.

Take care, Picpea.

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #40 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 11:57 PM
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Re: I need help with sustaining my marriage

@picpea

Dear lord I am so very sorry for all the hardship you are facing. The trauma must have been horrendous!

I've had to re teach my body and override emotional reactions in order to enjoy sex. I was sexually abused as a child. While my issues seem a cake walk to yours, maybe there are some similarities that might help you in your sitch.

But first, can you tell me why you want to have sex anyway? If you could design your perfect future being guaranteed that both you and your husband found happiness and contentment, would it include sex? Do you want sex for you or do you want sex for your H? You really need to think about your answer.

Those are the questions I asked myself. Did I want sex for me or did I want sex so that my husband would be happy with me? I decided I wanted sex because I wanted to be normal. I wanted to stop pretending I was normal and actually BE normal. (This was long before I discovered no one is normal when it comes to sex...because there is no normal!)

Your husband sounds like a decent guy who is consumed with guilt. "Shoulda been there and protected, shoulda ...coulda....woulda.... wouldn't have happened." I don't know too many men who would have walked away from a woman they loved after she suffered such a horrific trauma. I bet your husband is horribly conflicted at this point. How could anyone have walked away from someone they loved as you suggest he should have? Could you have done that? Could you have walked away knowing the suffering and pain of the trauma would be compounded by abandonment? It's probably insulting to him to suggest such a thing. But now 6 years later he is still fighting the battle he missed out on and instead he hates himself a little more each day because he can't make you feel happy and whole and he blames himself.

What he needs to understand is that it is not in his power to do that. He cannot make you healthy, happy and whole. Only you can do that.


My first suggestion is to stop worrying about your husband and what he wants or doesn't want or how he feels or what you think he thinks. It doesn't matter. None of that matters because ...you can only control you. I know you've heard that a thousand times but it doesn't seem to have sunk in, maybe that's part of your anxiety. Stop worrying about your husband!

You're pushing your idea, your mental picture, of what a marriage is supposed to be and what a husband is supposed to want/like and what a wife is supposed to want/like and it doesn't sound like your husband is on the same page.



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I know that he has trouble looking at or touching certain places on my body...
Why is that? If he hasn't run his hands and mouth over every damn scar you have, acknowledging them, touching them, loving them because they are a part of you that you both need to come to terms with, then he is every bit as traumatized and averse as you are. And if what you say is true, that he doesn't go there because it bothers him, as opposed to him not going there because he knows it bothers you, than it is doubly important that you stop putting him into the process of healing. Because you can't heal him and he can't heal you.

"Some women are blessed with multi-orgasmic ability for a reason and I'm damn sure not going to waste a blessing" ~FrenchFry

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post #41 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 12:05 AM
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Re: I need help with sustaining my marriage

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If there was some type of higher power or reason for this life things like this wouldn't happen. There is no need for them to happen. It wasn't meant to be or for the greater good of anything. I was raised in a two religion household, I can appreciate religion but I don't believe in it.
Amen to that sister!

Many survivors do not believe, and cannot even imagine believing. Life has taught them there is no such thing as a benevolent omniscient, because if there was, he absolutely sucks at his life's calling!

"Some women are blessed with multi-orgasmic ability for a reason and I'm damn sure not going to waste a blessing" ~FrenchFry

"Vaginas are tricky creatures." ~Lucy999
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post #42 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 08:41 AM
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Re: I need help with sustaining my marriage

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Originally Posted by picpea
I wish my husband would be like that. Sometimes I wish I had died instead. It feels like it would have been easier for everyone. My husband has the option to hold me, but he doesn't really want to. I have some scars from unrelated medical procedures that my husband has never batted an eyelash at. But the ones that I really need him not to mind are the ones that he doesn't want to see or touch. He doesn't want to work on it, and I don't think I'm worth it to him.
I missed this last night.

This is a problem. A big one. A bad one.

Is this true? Accurate? Has he admitted this to you or is this your interpretation of his behavior?

If you contemplate that your surviving the attack was a mistake, and you believe your husband doesn't want to hold you and can't bring himself to look upon your scars this is what is holding you back.

How can you get to a healthy place, sexually, if you are convinced it is hopeless to try?

Most survivors have deep shame, that seems insurmountable, that prevents them from wanting to share their body during sex. That shame creates a divide emotionally. We go through the motions because that's what we're supposed to do, but not because that's what we want to do. In a sense, each time we have sex we are retraumatizing ourselves because we are forcing a sexual act. Creating an even deeper disconnect between sexual behavior and sexual feelings. In your case it's even more pronounced because you also have emotional triggers that cause you to tense up and any sexual arousal that is supposed to accompany the sexual behavior is completely gone.

You need to stop having sex with your husband until he is okay with your scars. Whether that means you see his behavior as a response to you ("I know she hates this part of her body so I won't even go there because I don't want her to be uncomfortable") or he gets his head out of his ass and comes to terms with the scars that mark you as a survivor. I have a hard time believing he can't tolerate holding you because of your scars. That would mean your husband is a shallow SOB and if that is true you are wasting your time in this marriage.

"Some women are blessed with multi-orgasmic ability for a reason and I'm damn sure not going to waste a blessing" ~FrenchFry

"Vaginas are tricky creatures." ~Lucy999
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post #43 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 10:44 AM
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Re: I need help with sustaining my marriage

This has been one of the hardest threads for me to read on TAM!

PicPea, You have given us enough of a picture to understand that the trauma you went through was horrific. i am so so sorry that there are people in this world that would do such egregious atrocities and I am so sorry for all that you have had to go through and for what you are going through now with your husband.

I am going to carry on with what Anon Pink posted concerning your husband's battle. While you went through something no-one should ever have to go through - your husband also went through his own horrible trauma. You have physical and emotional scars left from it; he has emotional ones. I am sure he felt intensely guilty for not being there when you needed him most. I am also sure that he felt intense anger towards the men who caused this trauma and I wonder if has ever really processed or dealt with that anger fully with a therapist. You both were very young and I suspect that when he went ahead with the marriage - he did so very naively, probably with the unrealistic expectation that his love could make it all better for you, that by being your Knight in Shining Armour after the trauma he could be with you and help you heal completely. I suspect he unrealistically expected that your love for each other would help both of you return to the normal you knew before the trauma occurred. And now he is facing the fact that his expectations are not the reality.

Over the years no matter how hard he tried, nor what he did or didn't do, his unrealistic expectations of helping you heal has not played out - and I think this has just reinforced his already existing feeling of being a total failure as a man, as your Knight, and especially as your protector. Anon Pink said it well "now 6 years later he is still fighting the battle he missed out on and instead he hates himself a little more each day because he can't make you feel happy and whole and he blames himself"

His wounds are not healing and what's even worse - they are now getting severely infected!! And this infection is destroying him and he doesn't have a clue what to do anymore to help you or himself. I suspect he feels terrible about himself and may even feel somewhat trapped in a situation that he is now realizing he is not equipped to handle well. He may feel that leaving you just proves how big of a failure he really is and he may be afraid of what will happen to you if he leaves you. i think he loves you and wants you to heal. I think he wants your marriage to work - and he is becoming increasingly more frustrated and angry that HE can't help you!

Being around you, seeing your scars, going to other woman to have sex - all of these are reinforcements of his failures in his eyes and are probably very very painful reminders for him. They are reminders that he can't make it all better for you - he can't take away your pain - and he can't take away what happened to you. Because he is probably dealing with his own painful emotions, I suspect his self preservation urges right now are probably screaming at him to run - especially after he almost lost his temper with you! I think that incident probably scared and confused him as much as it scared you! Perhaps he is staying away because he is starting to recognize that you are both hurting each other more, rather than helping each other.

PicPea - your husband was/is severely traumatized too - not in the same way, but his pain and torment are just as real! You both have terrible infected wounds from the horrific trauma and the aftermath of dealing with it. You both have a lot of work to do to work on healing your infected wounds. However, Anon Pink is absolutely right "you can't heal him and he can't heal you". I am going to take that a step further in saying that I think you both may be actually interfering with each others healing process at this point because you are focusing your energy on each other and trying to make this marriage work instead of the important first steps of healing your own individual wounds! And actually, what you are doing is creating even more wounds for each other to deal with. You are not doing it intentionally, but that is what is happening. You can't create a healthy happy marriage until you BOTH are individually healthy enough to be able to work together on creating it. NEITHER of you are at that point right now!

Perhaps its time for both of you to step back from the marriage for a period of time. Perhaps you should both take a break from each other. I am not suggesting a divorce - perhaps a legal separation for now, while you both focus on your own individual healing with some really good therapists who specialize in your specific kind of trauma. Perhaps when you both are making enough progress with your own healing, you can re-evaluate the marriage and decide where to go from there.

You absolutely deserve to love and be loved, to be in a happy and healthy marriage and so does your husband. I hope you both can find that together, but if you can't, I hope you are both strong enough to let go so you both can build a happy life with someone else. I know this is not what you want to hear, but I think it may be what you need to hear right now, for both your sake and for your husband's sake.

Again, I truly am sorry for what you have had to deal with and for what you are now dealing with. I hope you will find a way to heal enough to have a very happy life full of joy and love and perhaps even someday find a way to turn your traumatic event into something positive in some way!
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post #44 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 11:24 AM
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Re: I need help with sustaining my marriage

After reading the rest of your post...I have to agree with other posters, you and your H cannot heal each other. You have to focus to yourself. Your H is so tormented by this that you cannot help him. He is changing and after 6 years it might be coming to the end for him. Heal yourself. Learn to love yourself again. Let him go. Let this marriage go before you destroy yourself.

At times you have to understand that just because you love someone, does not mean that they are good for you. Just because you want to stay married does not mean it good for you.

I understand shame and feeling dirty. I still wear them from time to time. But blame, it was never on me. I refuse to take blame even if it tries to peep at me and crawl my way. Stop blaming your self. You lived and survived. Learn to live again by letting this go. It weighing you down and preventing you from moving forward. Remember you need to put on your oxygen mask first.

I wish you peace and happiness. Love for yourself is in you waiting to blossom.
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post #45 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 11:39 AM
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Re: I need help with sustaining my marriage

There are two things to face. The physical and the emotional.

As you alluded to, the physical may actually be easy, easier, to face, comparatively. If you had been hurt in a fire or an automobile accident you and your husband might think nothing of the scars.

As for the scarring on your genitals, have you investigated Female Genital Mutilation (or Circumcision) which has no standards of procedure. It is a horrible practice which should stop. People should not compare it to male circumcision. Especially since the practice of it is so horribly done, with no standards and by amateurs who mutilate girls in no standard way at all. It can't make you better, but know that many of these girls grow up to lead happy lives. I have supported groups trying to fight this practice, and have read reports about it.

I think it would help you to know something about it. Not sure why, just a thought.

My wife just had a hysterectomy. Someone even suggested she is less of a woman because she lost her womb. She is 61 years old, and it certainly can't be used to bear a child, but some people have that view anyway. My wife is certain it doesn't matter, but she is especially certain it does not matter at all because she knows, without doubt, it does not matter to me and I will not treat her different at all.

How your husband treats you is vital. He needs to treat your scars the same as if they were from a hunting accident. I have no idea how to get to that point.

I make a lousy counselor. I get too involved with people.

An aside about counselors. When I was in university one of my classes I recall made mention of the fact the people who could become counselors needed to be able to not care too much about their patients. Those who did care too much would burn out quick and fail. So, many counselors are cold-hearted people. Keep trying to find the right one.
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