L.M.COYL

In Europe and elsewhere it is a given that men will have sex outside marriage (and often women, too) and that this is simply a characteristic of gendered roles. That being said, I informed my wife very, very early on that I need sex a minimum of 3 to 5 times per week (sometimes per day!). However, try reminding her of that when she is steamed about some minor household issue (minor to me-hee-hee!).

Regardless, I have found that while most healthy women are not half as horny as the average red-blooded Canadian man, virtually all women I have known loved to please their men even if they can't/won't have intercourse. The compromise is having her please you Now while that may not be ideal, it is a compromise. To turn her on, women need a long build up and so you need to work on that (that could be an hour or a week of foreplay, get it?). It's like anything good, it takes effort and a positive attitude. In our society we are too fixated on immeidate release and satisfaction but neglect the fact that good work is in itself satisfying (certainly, my wife and I appreciate it when either one of us does a good job).

Now, if she won't do that; noone can help you and counselling or no, I wouldn't stand for it, especially since you have only invested a year (is that right?) in the relationship. Someone said up top that it not gratifying sexual impulses is unhealthy and I wholeheartedly agree.

You live once, my friend, why on earth would you be miserable for a protracted time unless all the other facets of your relationship can outweigh what is lacking (which they very well may!)? You can ask her to allow you a sex surrogate as a last resort, but she should be present, I think. There are no easy answers but you definitely need to assess and reassess prior to making a game-changing decision like divorce (perhaps, and please don't take offense, you should have experimented long before you chose to marry and have a kid that way you would have been alerted to her reluctance to have sex). Your story seems common amongst a those who have neglected 'fully' knowing their prospective partners prior to marriage which I find logical considering the growth of retrogressive social mores.

Ah, one more thing. While I may have begun this post by stating that in many places sex outside of marriage is common, I must confess I have never gone outside my marriage; I think that my wife senses and has sensed this and (also, even though I am 40 I keep myself in tip top shape and stay trim with at least a 4 pack on the tummy, eat right and lots of fruit, maintain myself so she is attracted to me physically) so my wife is willing to please me because she appreciates my fidelity.

Another thing you may want to consider is that some women who have low sex drives were sexually abused or assaulted at some point in their lives, so if that is the case then nothing you do will change her way of thinking and feeling. Recommending a menage a trois for a woman like this mine as well be like spitting in her eye and telling her she is worthless to you. She needs healing and support, not carnal pressure! She may need serious help; then, it is a matter of how much you love her and want to invest in the friendship (which is actually more important for me since my wife is my best friend and if she experienced protracted issues sexually she might very well allow me some freedom in that area, though she hasn't yet!)

Anyhow, best of luck! Stay positive.

FirstYearDown

Well, I was 28 when I married my husband.

There was no wedding to gush over, because we could only afford a small elopement. We couldn't let our parents plan and pay for our wedding, because we knew that would give them a free pass to control our married life.

We spent many hours discussing our needs and expectations for marriage. Sex, children, in-laws and finances were throughly talked about and agreed upon. We knew that these plans could always change, except the childfree life.

It helped that we lived together while we were engaged. It was a great test.

There ARE wise people in their late twenties. I hate this attitude that all young people are stupid.

OP, it would make more sense for you to leave your wife. I know that is easier said than done, but if she refuses to work through her issues, infidelity will only worsen the situation.

Surviving sexual abuse is no small feat. If your wife has been abused in this manner, she will need to attend IC. Bear in mind that some damage can never be repaired; I still hate having fingers inside me. I also do not like being ordered to do something in bed and I am afraid of men who come from the same race as my abusers.

FirstYearDown

brendan

a lot of usefull information on here, i guess this issue of (when i proposed) till now is the issue, eg.

proposed 2 1/2 years ago after living with her for 2 years

+ no child. both worked, went out a lot. had sex, had fun, were happ and in love, lots of weekends away/holidays.


now

+child who is the best, still both work, dont go out as much as she has no energy due to depression, and when were are at home its not quality as she likes relaxing watching the crap reality TV shows where as i like doing stuff or watchign sport, no sex, she has weekends away with girls but not me, our 2 or so holidays are year are still good however.

the point im trying to make is a women that you love has changed so much in 2 1/2 years and so much sexually obviously that shes sorta a different person at times, she says ive changed too and am grumpy more which is true, no wonder without sex. Awaiting her email reply today or tomorrow to see if she can communicate more.... sme times i think its the old,

- got married now, im settled (put on 20k.g and no sex)
-have child where ive produced (im a mummy before wife)
-have a nice house (can relax and be lazty around thwe house)
- dont have to have sex now as i dont need to be seen as sexy to keep my man.

lastradas

Good Lord, I don't know where you got this information from but as a European (born and raised and living in the US for 8 years) I can assure you that this is complete bvllsh*t - at least in countries with Western Standards.

@Brendan: I've been following your posts for months now. People keep giving you literally the same advice over and over, but you keep coming back asking essentially the same thing every single time, seemingly hoping for that one response that'll make all your problems go away.
What I find surprising that all of your posts revolve around that one, very specific topic: You don't get enough sex. There seem to be no other problems. If you got enough sex, everything would be okay.
Problem is, your wife doesn't think so. And while you acknowledge that she is depressed, you don't seem to really get it - and this has been very pervasive throughout your posts. Yes, you went to counselling with her a few times, but I feel you literally expect miracles just because you go - you do realize that altogether you have spent just five hours in a room with a therapist (technically less because session are ususally 50 min)? And if you're not working on these issues at home - and like I said before, in the beginning you will unlikely be working on your sex life - then things are not going to change.

You keep talking about how you are trying to talk to her - yet, the only thing you seem to try to talk to her about (and of course I could be wrong here), is your sex life. Duh, if I was depressed, literally had no interest in sex, and the only thing my partner really wants to have a heart-to-heart talk about, is sex, I would shut down, too- big time.

I don't intend to undermine your desire for closeness and intimacy but if you're unhappy you need to get out of this relationship. Because the way you're approaching it (based on what I read here) it's not going to change any time soon. You can still be very good parents to your child and you both get the chance to be happy.

L.M.COYL

What I meant, which is what I should have written, was that in Europe and many other places abroad, there is a less hostile perception of infidelity, although the US is still, I believe, more promiscuous. The point is that infidelity is not going to solve any problems relating to communication with your wife and the fact that you've children. She has changed because circumstances have changed, however that does not mean that you can't both still obtain satisfaction. Indeed, in time perhaps what you'll care to emphasis in the relationship may also change.

FYI, branden, David Barrash and his wife wrote on the 'monogamy myth' a few years ago. That might be of interest. Depending on your own values IMO it may very well turn into a dangerous route.

CrazyGuy

Come on, washing the car is way more important then sex.

People can see a dirty car and what will they think of you?

People can not look at you and tell that you have not had sex for a long time.

The car gets washed more then you have sex because of this.

In fact," the car needs washed" is a great excuse to use up the little extra time that could be used for having sex.

SimplyAmorous

Amazon.com: The Myth of Monogamy: Fidelity and Infidelity in Animals and People (9780805071368): David P. Barash Ph.D., Judith Eve Lipton: Books

Sounds like a very interesting read.

__________________
"Love Good Blog"

Zzyzx

Brendan, recall the functional definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

__________________
If you don't know me by now
You will never never never know me

lastradas

Well, I can only speak for my country and this simply isn't the case.

I do, however, wholeheartedly, agree with this.

Well, it's really no surprise that from an evolutionary standpoint, humanity (especially men) is not meant for monogamy. But we're one step ahead of every other organism on this planet: We have the ability to choose and to make decisions. And while humans may have an innate desire for sexual intimacy, they can choose whether they act upon it.

Very true. I am not sure whether we're getting at the same thing but Brendan's post are an example of exactly that. The words of his posts are different but the content is always the same, with no gained insight.

Remember, if you want things to change, you need to change. But no pseudo change, real change. The choice is yours. You want to be happy? It's up to you to make it happen. And yes, it is possible that this life of happiness isn't going to include your wife, but again, the choice is yours.

MEM11363

Brendan,

You aren't the type of guy who would be able to insist on an "open marriage" and feel good about it.

And that is a compliment.

Your main problem is you are working to solve this problem as if you are a female. I am happy to do the "feelings" channel all day long provided I don't feel I am being treated really badly.

Once THAT happens if you don't start acting like a "male". Which means stop "talking" and start "DOING" - nothing will change. You already know all that though. Because you have been talking. The more you "talk" the less she respects you.

Keep writing your wife these long heartfelt letters - and you will stay right in the middle of her friendzone.

Keep talking about how it would "destroy her" if you don't agree to be celibate and do whatever she needs.

Check back in a year and let us know how nothing has changed - well except your hand is a bit more exercised...

Catherine602

How do you explain the dramatic increase in women cheating and reaching parity with men?

Every survey done in the last decade or so shows that the prevalence of women cheating has increased dramatically while male infidelity has decreased slightly.

At the present rate, women will reach parity with men by the time the next generation reaches marrying age if not before.

It will be interesting to see what will happen to the evolutionary myth when men can't ignore reality.

I don't think this a bad outcome. Cheating will finally be seen for what it is, an individual problem of lack of character and impulse control.

The excuse that forces out of ones control will be far less attractive when men have to worry about their wives yielding to the same forces.

These men may be more interested in humans evolving to the point that control of regressive impulses is valuable.

__________________
"Hey some guys need a book to find the G-spot. It was intuitive for me. Some take the road less travelled." Enthropy 3000

lastradas

Well, clearly you're not a female. Because from my very 'limited 'experience as a female I don't think at all he's actually being very "female" at all. Yes, he writes long letters and tries to talk to her. But my impression is that he is so fixated on the this one subject that he may miss what's actually going on in the relationship. Based on his posts, lack of sex seems literally to be the one thing he tries to talk about with his wife. Yes, she gets long letters that may be all touch feely, but like I said before, if I am depressed and have no interest in sex, the last thing to get me in the mood is a lengthy letter about the lack of sex. To me, it demonstrates how little I and how much the sex matters.
I am not even saying that Brendan feels this way but this is how his behavior would come across as to me.

Would you mind specifying what he should do? As in a very specific action.

I would actually like to know what it exactly is that Brendan's wife needs?

Increased social acceptance, decreased social repercussions, and an increased sense of self-rightousness (i.e. "my partner doesn't give me what I need, hence it is okay if I do X,Y, and Z).

My $.02.

Catherine602

I see, same as men?

You forgot one very important thing, opportunity. Women are no longer confined to the domestic front. Employment increases contact with men.

What about primal evolutionary impulses beyond our control? If it is true for men then it is true for women.

__________________
"Hey some guys need a book to find the G-spot. It was intuitive for me. Some take the road less travelled." Enthropy 3000

MEM11363

Lastrada,
Let's start with timing. This has been an acute issue for 3 years. Sex 5 times in 3 years.

Let's move on to some possibilities:
- depression because she really isn't into brendan and THAT makes her depressed
- depression caused by non Brendan issues

If its him she should be honest and just tell him.

If it isn't him - who owns "fixing the problem"? I think she does. And that means lifestyle - exercise - therapy - etc.

BTW I am familiar with depression. Nasty stuff. But it isn't diplomatic immunity to treat your partner like they don't matter.

So the way this looks to me is you have a LD partner who lacks the desire to please/avoid displeasing their partner. And an HD partner with poor coping skills.

None of this is that difficult. You either believe you are entitled to demand that your partner be involuntarily celibate, or you don't. I don't and fortunately my W doesn't. We both believe the vow to "love" includes making an effort for sex to be a positive part of the marriage. For the HD partner that means not grinding your LD spouse wi incessant demands. For the LD partner that means making the same effort not to starve/reject the most important person in your life.

All that said Brendan's issue isn't really sex it's that his wife doesn't really respect him. If she did she would either:
- have sex with him or
- be honest about what the real issue is - instead of stonewalling him



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