Are thoughts really just thoughts? - Page 12 - Talk About Marriage
Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

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post #166 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 02:13 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

Speaking as a Poster:

I was a contributor to this dumpster fire of a thread jack.

Speaking as a Moderator:

The thread jack has gone too far and stops now. If you cannot post something directly to the OP and her situation, then exit this thread or there will be little choice but to issue bans.

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"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #167 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 03:09 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cognitivedissonance View Post
Many of what I have read about "its nature" etc. suggests its what we do when looking for a mate. Well, my hunny has a mate. Me. One he is very happy to be with he states. He wants to see if he has control over it and that is another reason for the therapy. I thank you for this. They do not seem to understand that he has admitted. He has said he doesnt always know but he sometimes does.
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I was raped when I was a child so I was already sexual too. Doesnt mean I liked it or wanted it. I was 15 when I started having sex casually but I was seeking out sex since I was 3 years old. That doesnt mean men should be allowed to fondle me in their thoughts.
CD:
Speaking as someone who was emotionally and physically abused as a kid, to another abused child: I think you need serious help. I don't think trying to get your H therapy for impure thoughts is going to help your marriage, nor is it going to help him mentally. It's likely to cause exactly what you've aptly named yourself: Cognitive Dissonance.

I don't think you're a bad person. I don't think you have bad intent. I think what you are attempting will have terrible consequences. Your H has stated you're the only girl for him, despite all the beautiful women he sees in this wide world. That should be a great sign, and instead, it's become a point of insecurity. The fact that he sees them has become a problem for you. But he has eyes, and he cannot help but to see.

It appears to me that you are seeing bogeymen in the shadows. I think you are projecting your insecurities and your abuse onto your H. That's completely normal for an abused person. But it's also completely unhealthy.

I don't intend any of this in a hurtful way. I've been in pretty dark places, I can completely empathize with you. I needed help too. Probably still do, in some ways, if I'm completely honest. If you've been in therapy for 15 years, and this is as far as you've gotten, then IMO (with the admittedly limited knowledge I have of your situation) your therapist is not very effective, or you have gone as far as you are emotionally capable for now. I don't know how to get you out of where you are, and to a healthy place, but I hope you can find it. Having friends who cared about me enough to point out self-destructive patterns helped get me to a healthier place. So did getting the bad people out of my life. And eventually, accepting that no, I did not ask for it, and I didn't bring it on myself; that I had zero power or control over the situation, that I was in over my head, and knew nothing better was perhaps the biggest step to helping myself recover. Maybe those are good places to start for you.

I know this isn't what you want to hear. What you want is for someone to confirm your insecurities. But that won't help you overcome them, it will only reinforce them for you, and make tearing them down that much more difficult.

Do you hear the people sing / Lost in the valley of the night?
It is the music of a people / Who are climbing to the light.
For the wretched of the earth / There is a flame that never dies.
Even the darkest night will end / And the sun will rise...
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post #168 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 04:33 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

I think my advice would be to the OP would be now knowing what is going on in your husband mind, how are you going to feel when you own daughter becomes a teenager? Are you going to have fears or be constantly worrying that your husband is looking and thinking about your daughter or can you put this out of your mind and reassure yourself that while the thoughts are not something you agree with, his action are upstanding and he shows no signs of pursuing his personal thoughts.

If you truly feell your husband may fantasy about young girls but still has the respect and self control to know it's not something you go out and do, if you have no problem with the thoughts I see this as no issue.

At the end of the day it's all about what you can live with, and no one here can tell you that or make up your mind. I wish you all the best.
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post #169 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 05:42 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

Men have the ability to "turn off" sexual impulses in some instances. For example, no matter how hot a guy's mother or sister(s) are, a healthy man will never have sexual desires for them. It's an evolutionary thing so that we don't inter-breed and double up on every bad genetic attribute. This is backed by a lot of science and is referred to as the "Westermarck effect".

As for men attracted to young women - it's just as evolutionary. Many studies show that, for most men, women are their most attractive between the ages of 15 - 20. Yeah - horrifying but true. The overwhelming majority of men are able to avoid actually pursuing young women - girls actually - but taking a second look is as natural as breathing. Again, lots of science behind this one too. So if you want to condemn your husband/boyfriend for being a normal, healthy male then have at it. But I wish you would remember that the temptation of young women is a natural urge for him.
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post #170 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 05:57 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

OP...how did your therapy session go today?


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post #171 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 06:15 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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...As for men attracted to young women - it's just as evolutionary. Many studies show that, for most men, women are their most attractive between the ages of 15 - 20. Yeah - horrifying but true. The overwhelming majority of men are able to avoid actually pursuing young women - girls actually - but taking a second look is as natural as breathing. Again, lots of science behind this one too. So if you want to condemn your husband/boyfriend for being a normal, healthy male then have at it. But I wish you would remember that the temptation of young women is a natural urge for him.
One of the things that was hard for me to figure out is that the OP seems to be trying to struggle with two different concepts at the same time. I know I misunderstood some of it in my comments to her first post. And I feel that while she has elaborated in others, that there still is some mixing of concepts.

First is the one that you address, that her husband shouldn't have improper thoughts about "under age of legal consent" girls. There is room for debate as to what "age" she finds improper. But I am sure there are studies like you say for men of certain age ranges to find biologically attractive women of certain childbearing ages. Fertility is an evolutionary thing.

A second concept is that as a Child Sexual assault victim from a very young age, her awareness of an attraction to under age girls on her Husband's part part creeps her out and triggers what the Gottmans would probably call an emotional flooding.

I think she is struggling with her need to get closure on her CSA and her need to feel that her H is her emotional rock she can rely upon who does not trigger bring forward bad emotional memories and feelings.

I can understand where her H is a man she thinks she can trust and needs to feel she can trust. And yet is he just like all the others who can't be trusted.

This certainly is a popular threat that has super-heated a lot of emotion and debate.
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post #172 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 06:16 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

@Cognitivedissonance,

I hope you realize that you are not alone, and there are many, both men and women, who would agree that lusting on the 13-17 year old set is somewhere on the spectrum from inappropriate to creepy.

If nothing else, I expect your conversations with your husband will raise his awareness about how he might be affecting others (to the degree that they see and are aware he is doing this), and perhaps to think a little more deeply about what he might currently take for granted.
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post #173 of 175 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 12:50 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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@Cognitivedissonance,

I hope you realize that you are not alone, and there are many, both men and women, who would agree that lusting on the 13-17 year old set is somewhere on the spectrum from inappropriate to creepy.
I think most people think of "lusting" as fantasizing & having real desire to have sex with underage girls so using words like "inappropriate" and "creepy" are well justified. I think these guys would encourage these young girls, sexually, if they seemed at all receptive. Now, I guess unless they actually touch them it's not illegal - however I think that these guys are moral degenerates and it's only a matter of time that they do something that rises to that level.

My point is simply the initial reaction to give an attractive underage girl a quick up & down glance is, for most men, simply an evolutionary-fueled reaction. They know it is NOT appropriate and quickly dismiss that girl as a sexual target and put her in the "She's just a kid" basket in their mind.
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post #174 of 175 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 04:34 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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... - however I think that these guys are moral degenerates and it's only a matter of time that they do something that rises to that level.

My point is simply the initial reaction to give an attractive underage girl a quick up & down glance is, for most men, simply an evolutionary-fueled reaction. They know it is NOT appropriate and quickly dismiss that girl as a sexual target and put her in the "She's just a kid" basket in their mind.
Whoa! Wow.

I find those comments rather inappropriate. Moral degenerate for thoughts is kind of over the top judgemental in my book. I have been married for over 46 years and kept it in my pants for that length of time except with my wife. Have I momentarily lusted in my heart after other women at times? Yes. Have I acted upon it, even when I was in a sex starved marriage? No. People (men and women) can control themselves and their actions. I think so. To call them moral degenerates for thoughts with no actions and no real desire for actions is over the top in my book.

I don't know if you ever heard of Jimmy Carter's interview with Playboy Magazine in 1976, where he admitted to lusting in his heart after some women who were not his wife. He said,
Quote:
"..."I've looked on a lot of women with lust. I've committed adultery in my heart many times. This is something that God recognizes that I will do--and I have done it--and God forgives me for it. But that doesn't mean that I condemn someone who not only looks on a woman with lust but who leaves his wife and shacks up with somebody out of wedlock. Christ says, don't consider yourself better than someone else because one guy screws a whole bunch of women while the other guy is loyal to his wife.".."
. Others felt that President Carter was way over the top in his comments. Jimmy Carter is perhaps one of our most moral Presidents, this country has had.

Now the second point is viewing a man as placing "girls" as "sexual targets" or "just a kid" baskets. Again, Wow.

I do not view women as "sexual targets" or "non-sexual beings." To think that "men" look at a woman and either immediately place her in a "sexual target" basket or a kid (non-sexual being) basket is kind of creepy. Very few if any guys I know think like that. To think that men in general think like that is not to understand most men.

Is there porn that objectifies women? Yes. But that is not how most men think.

I can walk down the street without saying hmmm, I would have sex with her, I would not do her, I would love to have sex with that one. I don't think that way and again, neither do most men. Most men I know are shy around women and want to gradually get to know a woman before they become intimate with her or even think of being intimate with her.
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post #175 of 175 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 04:36 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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Originally Posted by theDrifter View Post
My point is simply the initial reaction to give an attractive underage girl a quick up & down glance is, for most men, simply an evolutionary-fueled reaction. They know it is NOT appropriate and quickly dismiss that girl as a sexual target and put her in the "She's just a kid" basket in their mind.
I brought this thread up to my girlfriend. We are lesbian kinksters, and that is exactly what she said...she might notice a cute young girl, but immediately "she's a kid" enters her brain and she puts it away.

With that said, OP, I hope you had a helpful session with your therapist today. It sounds like you and your hubs do love each other, and I truly hope you can work through this together.
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