Are thoughts really just thoughts? - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
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post #16 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 06:37 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Cognitivedissonance View Post
Let me start off with the fact my husband and I are absolutely crazy about each other. We are very open and honest with our feelings and thoughts, we work together on everything and we had yet to hit a bump we couldn't get over almost instantly till now. We just cant see eye to eye on this particular subject. Let me start off in an order...

One day my husband told me
"Even though I have occasional split-second thoughts of having sex with other women, I would never and could never have sex with anyone else since I found you because our sex life is so active and amazing and you have the perfect body that I am the most attracted to." (I personally have a very high sex drive, higher than his so he loves it)

So that conversation kind of burst that bubble of me being the only one in his "eyes" and I thought so highly and unrealistically of this because he literally, not using word to make sentence sound good, he literally compliments me every day. My shape. His favorite parts of me. How my mind makes me even more sexy. ETC. Not to lie though, it hit me pretty hard mentally. After a day of trying to process how he can be so into me and still have sex with other women (in his head) I decided to DROP it. He was honest. I just try to walk ahead of him when in public or I try to ignore the women around me and ignore his head turns because my mind instantly wants to go into "how is he having sex with this one in his head?" .....


....Here is where I get uncomfortable.

He has looked, many times from moments he happens to be in my line of sight, checking out underage girls. Not like gawking, but glancing, and then a little longer look when doing a double take. These girls are maybe 13-17.

I confronted him about this after this weekend I saw him do it twice.

.....Some people mistake me for 16-18 years old still. I am 31. I told him he should know, morally, that anyone that looks my size has the possibility to be underage......

I told him he should have boundaries if he is going to allow sexual thoughts of random women in his head....


.... So after one of few fights over this, I just was in shock, we still went to bed in not only disagreement, but feeling ashamed and confused as to where to go from here.

He doesn't see what he does as wrong. I told him morally he should know better.

... He seriously didn't grasp why this made me feel sick.


I don't want to feel disgusted with this.
I cant get over the fact that he wont set boundaries to where his eyes and thoughts wonder too.
Fine look at other women, even fantasize if you "have too" but keep yourself in check man.



...I need help coping and not wanting to be so angry.
I am seeing my therapist this week.


Am I ok to feel betrayed and confused over thoughts?
....
Where to start? This is a little more "tough love" than I prefer, but you really need to take a couple steps back and see what you have posted.

When you ask your husband a question, do you want him to answer you honestly? If you do then you need to make sure the feedback you give him doesn't shut down his honest responses. Your actions will condition his actions!

Do you want your husband to be able to tell you his deepest darkest sexual thoughts? If you do, then you need to be "non-judgemental when it comes to sex."

Would you rather build a wall between the two of you so he feels he can't tell you his fantasies, fetishes, or sexual dreams? Some women drive their men to tell such things to prostitutes. Remember your actions are conditioning him.

Google a costume company on the internet. Do a search of sexy costumes. Do you find lots and lots of "sexy school girl" costumes? It must be an absolutely perverted desire as they are "school girls" and under age. And yet there seem to be lots of those costumes. Maybe it is a common fantasy, the grown men don't act upon.

Hey when I first met my wife of 46 years she was wearing a Catholic girls school outfit, White shirt, blazer, plaid wool dress, white sock, saddle shoes, the whole thing. Of course she I and were about the same age then 17-18. If she put on a similar outfit tonight, it would get a rise out of me and I would know that she (the mother of my children and my wife) was of an age where legal consent was present. That would be called roll playing. It is not considered perverted among two adults. Weird maybe, but nothing morally wrong.

Now to elaborate on this a bit more. You said that you are sometimes mistaken for a 16 to 18 year old at the age of 31! Either (1) you are dressing inappropriately or (2) your choice of clothing has conditioned your husband to have sexual feelings for women who dress young. If it is the later then you are as responsible for his "horrifying glances" as he is.

A little more elaboration. You "confronted him about his glancing at other women!" Do you want to become his mother who is going to educate and civilize him or do you want to be his wife? You are disgusted with him and it is impacting how you feel about him? Again, stop being judgemental, it is not your job. As a wife you should be loving, supportive, someone he can confide his deepest and darkest secrets to.

OK you shamed him into seeing a marriage counselor, where the two of you can discuss this with a third party. You are so upset you are going to see your own individual counselor.

I think that the later is a great idea. Don't be surprised if both counselors tell you back off and mind your own business. In fact, based on your own comments regarding be mistaken for a 16 to 18 year old, you individual counselor may tell you this has a lot more to do with your self-image as a young woman growing old, than it does about your "pervey" husband.

If he ever goes to parks and looks at little girls on jungle bars hoping to see their panties or if he starts to regularly go to Junior High School or High School girls athletic events, then you can worry and have something to be concerned about. But a quick glance or two, is not yet time to have him register as a sex predator.

No you are not OK to feel betrayed in my opinion.

I am glad you and your H are going to marriage counseling. I also think that the individual counselor you are going to go to will help you a lot in dealing with this.

I wish you and your H luck in resolving is problem.
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post #17 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 07:58 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

Yes, thoughts can be just thoughts. Your hubs trusted you enough to tell you his thoughts...I'm sure that he never anticipated your reaction to his revelations. That's because he loves you and digs you and trusts you. I'm sure he's back pedaling like crazy to try to placate you right now. And he will never open his mouth again.

My gf is very much like your hubs. She really adores me, is totally into me, is a fantastic lover. She is very open about her past and her thoughts. At first, I went a tiny bit off the deep end at some of her revelations, but frankly, she is completely innocent in her motives, as was your hubs.

Please don't shame him. People catch the eye, some catch my eye. Some are way younger than I am. Some are way older than I am. I don't entertain them as legit love interests, it really is a fleeting image/thought. I'm a lesbian with an insanely high sex drive, so I am probably different from a lot of women...but, I feel for the guys. He told you about it FFS, so he wasn't anticipating that you would be angry with him.

He truly loves you, and I know he never imagined that what he revealed to you would upset you.

Please forgive him.
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post #18 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 09:06 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

If you want someone to be honest with you, you can't shame them when they tell you their innermost feelings.

I would think that was obvious, but apparently it isn't.

In other words, you are way over the line here. He hasn't done anything wrong.

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post #19 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 09:43 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

I agree over reaction for sure.

He will never tell you his inner most thoughts again.

So no need to bash him over the head. Because now he is afriad to tell you anything.
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post #20 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 11:34 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

Well, he probably isn't afraid to share with her, but he knows it's a stupid thing to do.

And now he knows she thinks he should view the Original Poster as not being an acceptable sexual object. She can be mistaken for someone under the age of 18. Therefore he should not view her as a sex object. He should abandon his sexual interest in the Original Poster, if he follows her paradigm. After all, he must stop considering any woman who could potentially be under the age of 18 to be a sexual creature.
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post #21 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 12:23 AM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Young at Heart View Post
No you are not OK to feel betrayed in my opinion.
This post and quite a few others on this thread are very hypocritical.

Young - are you saying that you would have no problem and feel no shame to tell your wife that you occasionally oogle and imagine having sex with teenaged girls, some of them underaged? And to further tell her that even if this bugs her, she has no right to be upset about it?

No? I didn't think so.

Yet you are telling this OP she has no right to feel betrayed, even though you know dang well your wife would never get over such a thing if you told her about it.

So are you saying that NOT telling her means it is ok, and what she doesn't know doesn't hurt her?

I feel that every man on this thread who feels this type of thing is just normal and usual should tell their wife exactly what they've written here, and also tell her that you yourself have your head full of underaged girls at times.

No? Not willing to tell your wife that, knowing she will feel hurt and disgusted, but you are willing to tell this OP she has no right to be?

I know that William has said he is open with his wife about what goes on in his mind. For that, he has my respect. And Married but Happy is in an open marriage, so things with them are probably more out in the open.

But for the other guys....you sure are doing your best to shame this OP for her valid feelings of hurt and betrayal, feelings which you all know your wives would also exhibit if you were truthful with your wives. You don't want to be this honest with your own wives because you know YOU would feel shame.

But if this is totally natural and normal, why would you feel shame? Why not just come right out with it and then if your wife protests, just tell her all the things you've said here and shame her into silence, as you are doing here.

And by the way Young at Heart...the OP stated she looks like a teen because she is tiny, short and small. Nice job of then trying to project that she must be dressing sl*tty or something and trying to shame her.

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post #22 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 12:28 AM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

I also wonder how many of you who have daughters aged 13 - 17 are ok with knowing that "every guy" in the world, aged 13 - 80 is banging his monkey in the shower with images of her dancing naked through his head? And what if those guys just happen to glance a little too long at your daughter. Are you just going to chuckle and give him the thumbs up because what he's thinking is perfectly natural and normal, and meanwhile you are imagining HIS 13 y/o daughter naked?

Remember the goal of feminism: Making sure only alphas get laid!
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post #23 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 12:47 AM
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And further, for those who have daughters, did you talk to them as they came into puberty and tell them the truth you state here? "Oh honey don't worry about grown men looking at you with lust. It is harmless. All men do this. They are just going to use your image later to jack off to, or imagine you while they have sex with their wives. Me? Well of course I wouldn't look at you that way, that would be wrong. But I'm a man so I do look at all of your cute little friends that way. Hey when's the next slumber party?"
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post #24 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 02:43 AM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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I also wonder how many of you who have daughters aged 13 - 17 are ok with knowing that "every guy" in the world, aged 13 - 80 is banging his monkey in the shower with images of her dancing naked through his head? And what if those guys just happen to glance a little too long at your daughter. Are you just going to chuckle and give him the thumbs up because what he's thinking is perfectly natural and normal, and meanwhile you are imagining HIS 13 y/o daughter naked?
So your position is that denying this is somehow a better approach?

Or are you saying that it's not true?

Genuinely puzzled here, not trying to pull your chain...

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post #25 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 02:44 AM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

In her original post she gave no indication that her husband was aware of the age of any of the females he was looking at.

I asked some questions about the context where the "looking" took place however the OP has not answered my questions.

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post #26 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 05:06 AM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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And further, for those who have daughters, did you talk to them as they came into puberty and tell them the truth you state here? "Oh honey don't worry about grown men looking at you with lust. It is harmless. All men do this. They are just going to use your image later to jack off to, or imagine you while they have sex with their wives. Me? Well of course I wouldn't look at you that way, that would be wrong. But I'm a man so I do look at all of your cute little friends that way. Hey when's the next slumber party?"
Ok this post and the one just before is a little ridiculous in my opinion. I remember reading that most men, in a split second, evaluate females for whether or not they would have sex with them.

It doesn't necessarily mean that they'll go an jack off thinking about them.

How about you? Are you hypocritical? Have you ever checked out a guy and thought about him or a celebrity while with your husband or masturbating? Of course you'll deny it if it was true.
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post #27 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 07:02 AM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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How about you? Are you hypocritical? Have you ever checked out a guy and thought about him or a celebrity while with your husband or masturbating? Of course you'll deny it if it was true.
I'll go out on a limb and guess that she has not done this while thinking of an underage boy, no.

I think (almost) all of us have had thoughts about other people from time to time. It's perfectly normal, IMO. Even those who do not believe it's okay, such as diana7, have to consciously look away, or otherwise train themselves not to look.

The brain says "look, attractive person!" before it determines other factors, such as age, I think. If I glance at a woman and I quickly determine she's under the age of 30, my brain says "nope". I'm at the age where anything under 30 is immature! But that's just me. I've always liked women around my age, anyway. But I also completely understand the appeal of younger men or women to some folks - just not too young.

Just because we have a spouse or a partner does not mean that we no longer find other people attractive. It's up to the individual as to whether that's a betrayal or not, but I don't believe most do. I don't.

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post #28 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 08:10 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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This is one of those areas that men an women are totally different. I am like your husband, when I am out, I notice what I consider to be attractive women all the time. In a brief second, I consider if I would like to have sex with them or not, and then it is gone. I know that I will never meet these women or have a physical relationship with them, but the thought still pops into my head. There is no comparison going on either, it's like a leaf in the wind. One moment it is there, the next is lost in the myriad of other leaves blowing in the breeze.

My wife is similar to you, she will analyze what I tell her I am thinking and rake me over the coals for what's in my head. Just because I have a thought does not mean that I will take action, it's just a thought. I find it hard to believe that my wife doesn't have thoughts all the time as well. Whether it be sex or should I change my shoes? I have learned to sanitize what I say sometimes to avoid a potential negative response. It's not that I'm not honest with her, but I will filter what I say due to many bad experiences.

You can usually judge a man by his actions, what have your husbands been telling you? My opinion is that you are unfairly crucifying your husband for potentially having an impure thought. Just because a thought of having sex pops into our head has no bearing on our love or dedication to our marriage. Don't let this one incident detract from what otherwise sounds like a great relationship.
Maybe my title is misleading. I am not suggesting he is going out and cheating on me. I am concerned about the lack of age limit to his thoughts. I am more focused on the inappropriateness of his lack of boundaries. A thought about sex with the body of a women is one thing, but when those thoughts seep into the underage bracket, and he openly admits to doing so, that makes me feel uncomfortable inside. Regardless if its a quick sexual thought based on appearance, he should be able to recognize that if it is illegal on the outside, then it should be a common sense thought its a no no to drift in that zone as an adult. I have not accused him of anything and his actions have shown to be true and trusting. That is why I did not "dog" on him in my message. There is nothing hidden, nothing to read between the lines and I dont create things and beat him down with it. We speak our truths back and fourth and this one we went in circles with.

I did take to heart your explanation of the thought process. I appreciate the feedback on how it works in your mind and it does, sound very similar to what my husband explains. There is no doubt my husband is and will always be faithful. I am just a bit queezy at his choice in limits and boundaries when using this thought process.
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post #29 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 08:26 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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He is keeping himself "in check" if he is not acting on his thoughts. Thoughts are not actions. As far as the younger girls go ... in what setting is he looking at young girls? Girls in a school setting where it is obvious they are students and underage? Or, girls that are just "out and about"?

Also consider that many people are very bad at discerning age. Makeup and clothing can make young girls look over 18 years old. We have all seen examples of this ... 14 year old so called super-models that look 20 years old in magazines, well developed 8th graders in heavy makeup and sexy clothes that look 18+.




Yes, I think you are over-reacting. This is normal male behavior. UNLESS, you have evidence that he knowingly fantasizes about underage girls (e.g. through his porn habits). Also, is there something in your history that makes you automatically sensitive and assuming toward child sexual abuse?

You need to stop shaming him unless and until you are sure there is something to be ashamed of.
First off, again I said this to someone else. I think my title of post is misleading. I am NOT suggesting him acting on his thoughts. I am not concerned in the least of him being unfaithful or any form of "child sexual abuse". Nothing in my post says I fear him or I think he will rape and molest children. What I am concerned about is the inappropriate use of his sexual thoughts. I do not think he needs to be including younger aged girls (13-17) in his thought process. He openly admitted to the fact they are his thoughts and he shouldnt have to censor his thoughts. If they happen to be 15, he isnt acting on it and he says the thoughts do not last long enough to be a problem. I do not agree. I think it is very morally right to be censoring your thoughts. He is the adult who has control of what he thinks and what he doesnt. If age is an issue legally, then it is a no-brainer to avoid those thoughts in your head. It is inapporpirate and it is an uncomfortable feeling to know he doesnt feel a need to censor or be respectful of the age he fantisizes. Yes these girls were "out and about" but in groups and with adults. You have a group of girls with an older male walking into a grociery store on a weekend its pretty obvious they are underage. You can tell by the company they were keeping. They all had baby faces but two of them had very short shirts and shorts. Having your head turn once is human, but more and longer after that is a bit wrong. You dont need an age dectector to know they were a group of girls having a sleepover of some sort. I am not shaming him and I told him his thoughts were boarderline pedophilic (as the ages SHOULD be a necessity when thinking sexually). With how defensive and protective you got of my husband without actually assuming I am majority of the time, a very rational wife who seeks understanding not punishment or belittlement, I would think you have had a bad experience with this sometime or another of someone accusing you or maybe someone you know. Yes I have issues with my childhood and sex. He knows this and this is why he has agreed to get help. I am uncomfortable with his thoughts. I do not believe he would ever ever act on them. My concern was if I was overreacting to being uncomfortable about thoughts. Not overreacting and thinking he is going to touch someone.
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post #30 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 08:37 AM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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he should be able to recognize that if it is illegal on the outside, then it should be a common sense thought its a no no to drift in that zone as an adult.
But it's not illegal. It's not illegal to think anything like this. We are getting down to the concept of how you can control your spouses thoughts and that is a slippery slope indeed. What if he can't control it? What if he is a great guy, would never act on it, but has no control over it? There are a lot of people who cannot control what they are attracted to, yet, keep it in check and keep it in their heads. Maybe he should be lauded for that.

Most importantly, you have made this about you. How he is making you feel. That's your problem, not his. There is very little difference between a 17 and an 18 year old, but that is the cutoff. In terms of legality, that is an arbitrary number where we feel comfortable enough to ensure that the person has matured enough in order to make their own decisions regarding sex with someone else over the age of 18.

I think you have a problem with him feeling turned on and thinking about sex with anyone but you (and that I'm not going to argue or say you don't have the right to feel). But you are now blurring the lines, making it about "legality" and "morality" to cover up your insecurities. I don't think you'd feel any better if your husband assured you that he checked the drivers license of every female he ogled and as long as she was 18 years old, he thought about bending her over the arm of a couch. I think it's the last part of the sentence that's really the issue and you are using the age aspect to shame him.
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