Are thoughts really just thoughts? - Page 6 - Talk About Marriage
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post #76 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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Originally Posted by introvert View Post
Yes, thoughts can be just thoughts. Your hubs trusted you enough to tell you his thoughts...I'm sure that he never anticipated your reaction to his revelations. That's because he loves you and digs you and trusts you. I'm sure he's back pedaling like crazy to try to placate you right now. And he will never open his mouth again.

My gf is very much like your hubs. She really adores me, is totally into me, is a fantastic lover. She is very open about her past and her thoughts. At first, I went a tiny bit off the deep end at some of her revelations, but frankly, she is completely innocent in her motives, as was your hubs.

Please don't shame him. People catch the eye, some catch my eye. Some are way younger than I am. Some are way older than I am. I don't entertain them as legit love interests, it really is a fleeting image/thought. I'm a lesbian with an insanely high sex drive, so I am probably different from a lot of women...but, I feel for the guys. He told you about it FFS, so he wasn't anticipating that you would be angry with him.

He truly loves you, and I know he never imagined that what he revealed to you would upset you.

Please forgive him.
I think how I wrote things makes it seem like I am a fiery raging monster somehow lol. The answers I am getting are similar in the manner of how I reacted. I did not do the best with describing what parts I reacted to out loud and what parts of it are in my head that I disclosed to the post. The fact is, I do not like the underage part. At all and I know it is related to my past. I was trying to get a good pole on whether or not it is valid for someone to feel so hurt by it. Its not the eye catching, its the sexual part. I look at women, I am bisexual. I do not think eye catching is bad, I do not think sexual thoughts are bad, I think staring and having sexual thoughts about underage girls is uncomfortable and inappropriate. I have a bigger sex drive than my husband and he loves it but we do deal with personal insecurities I have and I have been dealing with them from one relationship to another and he is the only one who has ever made me feel good about myself. Which I also believe is why it seems to hurt so much more.

We have not stopped talking about things and this is not the first time him or I have been hurt by the others feelings, thoughts, needs, wants or concerns. This is just the first time its been hard for me to just, move past. I dont like that I cant move past it. I also do not like the discomfort of my husband not understanding age limit and why it would bother me. I am not just sitting here yelling at him about it all day every day. It was a longer argument/talk than normal but it was because I was stuck and going in circles with feeling understanding and grossed out. Hence my screen name, cognitivedissonance. Its when you feel strongly about something in more than one way. I completely accept but I cant dismiss my gut-twisting disgusted feeling as well. He told me he wouldn't stop talking to me because he has never had an honest relationship before and he is willing to take the poopy moments over distance, lies and secrets. I agree. No matter how much this hurts, I am more than thrilled I could talk to him about it and still give him a hug and kiss goodbye this morning. He knows all I feel and I know all he feels about the subject. Its all out, there is not secret time bomb, or the fact we couldnt get everything out because one doesnt listen to each other. We both said our peace in hours of getting loud and calmly discussing.

One of my biggest fears is him closing up because I had a partner that did that to me, and I felt I wasnt allowed to say anything at all ever.

Thank you for your thoughts. I want you to know I have taken responsibility to how I feel and I hope to continue to do so.
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post #77 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 12:25 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
It is very difficult to judge the ages of some young women. I've guessed wildly wrong in both directions at various times.

I think it is natural to glance at attractive people. Staring is a different matter, but I see no point in pretending that you don't notice a beautiful person.

Fantasies - my opinion is that fantasies are absolutely private. People have all sort of fantasies about things that they would never do in real life. I would never tell all my fantasies, and would only ask my wife with the goal of trying to find a way to satisfy them.

Taking some action towards actually having sex with some is a whole different matter.
I understand some girls are hard to tell, even more so if they are only on their own. When in a group of same aged people, and an adult is present, it is really hard to not tell they are underage. It could be because I work around youth that I can spot it easier, but the lack of discuss is the concern when he knows they are underage. No its not something he is going after, but if he knows or it is obvious then it should not enter that zone. Just because fantasies are normal to have, doesnt mean you are having feelings that are normal. It is not hurtful to be careful about age and to advert the eyes if around it. I do understand where you are coming from though and I will try to be more mindful about how to deal with negative or positive thoughts of fantasies. This is something my therapist will surely discuss with me.
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post #78 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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Originally Posted by jld View Post
Where do those actions originate, though?

I think that is a concern of OP's, especially as she herself experienced CSA.
yes
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post #79 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 12:40 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

I am not surprised you feel distant from him knowing that he has those thoughts about the underaged. I think that is a natural warning system in your, and I hope most women's, psyches.

Honestly, I would be more concerned if you did *not* have that reaction.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #80 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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Originally Posted by tech-novelist View Post
If you want someone to be honest with you, you can't shame them when they tell you their innermost feelings.

I would think that was obvious, but apparently it isn't.

In other words, you are way over the line here. He hasn't done anything wrong.
Okay everyone keeps saying I shamed him. HE FELT ASHAMED ON HIS OWN. I had no idea till the end of the night. He felt ashamed because it hurt me and he couldnt understand why. I did not sit and point my finger at him and scream till my face was red and beat him down saying he should be ashamed of himself. I expressed my concern. I explained issues and scenarios that upset me and made me feel uncomfortable. If it is shaming to be honest and express how you feel about something than you are shaming me for my feelings and opinions and doing the same thing you are accusing me of. My husband has a mind of his own. My opinions may be strong and my pain may be real but I tell him I am grateful for his honesty and opinion. It might take me a day to process his words and put it together, but I never withhold my wrong doings and act like I am above him or his opinions. I should not feel shame for being upset about his admittance to sexual thoughts of girls in the teenage underage mark. It is called underage for a reason. He is 36 next month. He is old enough to control things. If I have to control my thoughts and behaviors than he does too. I have traveled a long road to the maturity of which I handle my feelings due to my PTSD because of therapy. This includes thoughts, actions, behaviors, mannerisms, I have behavioral cognitive therapy because I am autistic. It takes a lot for me to process someone elses needs and I am determined to learn and understand as I go. Illegal is illegal. our mind is a powerful thing, without our mind we are just a beating heart, bones and skin. People live in there heads because it is better and it can feel so real. So sex with a 15 year old in your head should not be high fived or seen as not wrong. This is my opinion and these are your opinions. I dont understand how people think being honest means it wont hurt anyone and that person has no right to be upset because it was honest. Thats not how things process for me. If what you say hurts me, I will tell you. If what I say hurts you, I would hope you tell me. Just because we tell the truth doesnt mean no one will get hurt. Just because we tell the truth doesnt mean we are acquitted of all wrong or validated for all right. It is communication, it goes back and fourth and around and around and if it doesn't than it builds up and monsters do form. I would hope he never closes up because this one time when he was honest it made me cry. Thats a stupid reason to keep secrets. I have told him truths that hurt him. Me bringing this concern to the surface hurt him and his answer hurt me. You know what though? We kept talking about it. Then the next day we both processed what each other said. Now we are figuring out how to cope on both sides. To many people are afraid of the truth and go on living lies and hide things. I am afraid of the truth but I am more afraid of lies and secrets I discover down the road. I am living that with my ex and it is not a good feeling.
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post #81 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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Originally Posted by WilliamM View Post
Well, he probably isn't afraid to share with her, but he knows it's a stupid thing to do.

And now he knows she thinks he should view the Original Poster as not being an acceptable sexual object. She can be mistaken for someone under the age of 18. Therefore he should not view her as a sex object. He should abandon his sexual interest in the Original Poster, if he follows her paradigm. After all, he must stop considering any woman who could potentially be under the age of 18 to be a sexual creature.
I am confused as to why you have to be a bit cruel in this. I came here to get advice and seek information, not to be put down in a condecending way. You misread how I explained that part. The part about my body is not related to sexual images of young teens is my insecure fear and I feel ashamed to look how I do. I have a right to be a bit disgusted in the idea that someone could be with me because I look like a little girl. Though it was a thought. I have a bad past and thats where my mind took it. I did tell him out loud that I dont know how to feel about my body type if it is the same attraction as the younger girls. It was a fear and I recognize it might seem irrational and over reactive but it wouldnt be the first time it has happened. It is not the first time I was ashamed of my figure for sexual reasons. There is more, much deeper inside that I did not care to go into detail because I did not think I would recieve such passive aggressive comments as i admitted to knowing and seeking help for this too. I think it sucks that I am seen as so young. It is not something I asked for it is just how I was created. Now I am not sure how to feel about myself and it sucks. It is not a pleasure and something I am enjoying, going around and feeling grossed out by my own image. This part is definetely something I need help coming to terms with and it is not unnoticed that it is MY problem. Hence, I am seeing my therapist this week. Tomorrow actually. So I can feel like I can be sexual with my husband.

I do want to express how you mentioned object and creature. I am a person. Not an object or creature. I am a human being.
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post #82 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 01:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Red Sonja View Post
In her original post she gave no indication that her husband was aware of the age of any of the females he was looking at.

I asked some questions about the context where the "looking" took place however the OP has not answered my questions.
Internet Explorer would not let me respond so I had to get Firefox on my computer.
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post #83 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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Originally Posted by jld View Post
I am not surprised you feel distant from him knowing that he has those thoughts about the underaged. I think that is a natural warning system in your, and I hope most women's, psyches.

Honestly, I would be more concerned if you did *not* have that reaction.
He is being very understanding and just hopes he can talk to someone to help understand his point of view and mine. I am doing the same on my end. Tomorrow I go to therapy. I will post what my therapist response is. Thank you for your comments through out. This is not as black and white to me as many people on this post make it seem. I forgive him for being human, I dont hate him for having thoughts. I just dont feel right about it right now.
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post #84 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 01:07 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Cognitivedissonance View Post
Okay everyone keeps saying I shamed him. HE FELT ASHAMED ON HIS OWN. I had no idea till the end of the night. He felt ashamed because it hurt me and he couldnt understand why. I did not sit and point my finger at him and scream till my face was red and beat him down saying he should be ashamed of himself. I expressed my concern. I explained issues and scenarios that upset me and made me feel uncomfortable. If it is shaming to be honest and express how you feel about something than you are shaming me for my feelings and opinions and doing the same thing you are accusing me of. My husband has a mind of his own. My opinions may be strong and my pain may be real but I tell him I am grateful for his honesty and opinion. It might take me a day to process his words and put it together, but I never withhold my wrong doings and act like I am above him or his opinions. I should not feel shame for being upset about his admittance to sexual thoughts of girls in the teenage underage mark. It is called underage for a reason. He is 36 next month. He is old enough to control things. If I have to control my thoughts and behaviors than he does too. I have traveled a long road to the maturity of which I handle my feelings due to my PTSD because of therapy. This includes thoughts, actions, behaviors, mannerisms, I have behavioral cognitive therapy because I am autistic. It takes a lot for me to process someone elses needs and I am determined to learn and understand as I go. Illegal is illegal. our mind is a powerful thing, without our mind we are just a beating heart, bones and skin. People live in there heads because it is better and it can feel so real. So sex with a 15 year old in your head should not be high fived or seen as not wrong. This is my opinion and these are your opinions. I dont understand how people think being honest means it wont hurt anyone and that person has no right to be upset because it was honest. Thats not how things process for me. If what you say hurts me, I will tell you. If what I say hurts you, I would hope you tell me. Just because we tell the truth doesnt mean no one will get hurt. Just because we tell the truth doesnt mean we are acquitted of all wrong or validated for all right. It is communication, it goes back and fourth and around and around and if it doesn't than it builds up and monsters do form. I would hope he never closes up because this one time when he was honest it made me cry. Thats a stupid reason to keep secrets. I have told him truths that hurt him. Me bringing this concern to the surface hurt him and his answer hurt me. You know what though? We kept talking about it. Then the next day we both processed what each other said. Now we are figuring out how to cope on both sides. To many people are afraid of the truth and go on living lies and hide things. I am afraid of the truth but I am more afraid of lies and secrets I discover down the road. I am living that with my ex and it is not a good feeling.
Please do not take any responses here personally, OP. We are just a community of random internet strangers, all of us limited by our own perspective.

Feel free to ignore anything that does not seem helpful to you.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #85 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 01:10 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Cognitivedissonance View Post
He is being very understanding and just hopes he can talk to someone to help understand his point of view and mine. I am doing the same on my end. Tomorrow I go to therapy. I will post what my therapist response is. Thank you for your comments through out. This is not as black and white to me as many people on this post make it seem. I forgive him for being human, I dont hate him for having thoughts. I just dont feel right about it right now.
Of course you don't. And that's why you are right to bring it up and talk about it, openly and honestly. Very healthy.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #86 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 01:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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Originally Posted by manwithnoname View Post
Ok this post and the one just before is a little ridiculous in my opinion. I remember reading that most men, in a split second, evaluate females for whether or not they would have sex with them.

It doesn't necessarily mean that they'll go an jack off thinking about them.

How about you? Are you hypocritical? Have you ever checked out a guy and thought about him or a celebrity while with your husband or masturbating? Of course you'll deny it if it was true.
You read that? My husband said thats what he has done his whole life. That he glances and knows if he would have sex with them and thats where the 3 second porn clip comes into play. Its in and then its out he says. I had no idea there was something written about that. I will research it then. Thank you. No my husband does say he has never brought any one person home in his head and he said sex is all about me and him and there is no reason to ever think of anyone else during sex when he is overly satisfied with me as his partner. So that is always something to be happy about. Doesnt make it any less painful when other ingredients are added but I am willing to understand if there is more to read about it. I have masturbated to other people, but in past relationships. I left those. I do not feel the need to with my husband because I am more than satisfied with him as well. I am not fond of male bodies, his is the first body I have ever been aroused by so he has a huge benefit and he is front and center in my fantasies. Again, the problem is the underage part. Not the fact he is thinking of other women. It was a hurtful thing to hear a year ago, but I have been finding my ways through my insecurities about it. Now it adding the underage it has resurfaced in a different way. Please just know this is about my feelings and thoughts, not just his actions and others. Thank you.
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post #87 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 01:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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Originally Posted by jld View Post
Please do not take any responses here personally, OP. We are just a community of random internet strangers, all of us limited by our own perspective.

Feel free to ignore anything that does not seem helpful to you.
I am not angry. I am passionate. I like details so I try to give much as well. I have been very grateful for all negative and positive remarks. It has caused much thinking of me as a person and also how I want to go on understanding my husband.
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post #88 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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Originally Posted by alexm View Post
I'll go out on a limb and guess that she has not done this while thinking of an underage boy, no.

I think (almost) all of us have had thoughts about other people from time to time. It's perfectly normal, IMO. Even those who do not believe it's okay, such as diana7, have to consciously look away, or otherwise train themselves not to look.

The brain says "look, attractive person!" before it determines other factors, such as age, I think. If I glance at a woman and I quickly determine she's under the age of 30, my brain says "nope". I'm at the age where anything under 30 is immature! But that's just me. I've always liked women around my age, anyway. But I also completely understand the appeal of younger men or women to some folks - just not too young.

Just because we have a spouse or a partner does not mean that we no longer find other people attractive. It's up to the individual as to whether that's a betrayal or not, but I don't believe most do. I don't.
I actually really appreciate the way you wrote this. My concern is the underage part and looking back. Not just glancing. Its that "nope" that he doesnt do at all. I am also concerned about how I feel about it which is why therapy is a must for me too. I look at women, but I know enough to do the "nope" part. Thank you.
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post #89 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 01:28 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

In the end we cant help who or what we see, but we can help what we let our eyes and thoughts linger on. We have control over what we look at and what think about.
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post #90 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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Originally Posted by farsidejunky View Post
If that was all she was doing I would agree .

She is now enlisting the help of a therapist to show him why his thoughts are wrong and need to change.

She is not only noting how it bothers her, but taking action. @Herschel has this nailed.
No no, I am involving a therapist so I UNDERSTAND him and why I FEEL the way I do. He is going to therapy to see if it is something he should be concerned about and if it is how he can stop it. If it is not then how he can help me cope with it.
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