Are thoughts really just thoughts? - Talk About Marriage
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post #1 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 01:46 PM Thread Starter
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Question Are thoughts really just thoughts?

Let me start off with the fact my husband and I are absolutely crazy about each other. We are very open and honest with our feelings and thoughts, we work together on everything and we had yet to hit a bump we couldn't get over almost instantly till now. We just cant see eye to eye on this particular subject. Let me start off in an order...

One day my husband told me
"Even though I have occasional split-second thoughts of having sex with other women, I would never and could never have sex with anyone else since I found you because our sex life is so active and amazing and you have the perfect body that I am the most attracted to." (I personally have a very high sex drive, higher than his so he loves it)

So that conversation kind of burst that bubble of me being the only one in his "eyes" and I thought so highly and unrealistically of this because he literally, not using word to make sentence sound good, he literally compliments me every day. My shape. His favorite parts of me. How my mind makes me even more sexy. ETC. Not to lie though, it hit me pretty hard mentally. After a day of trying to process how he can be so into me and still have sex with other women (in his head) I decided to DROP it. He was honest. I just try to walk ahead of him when in public or I try to ignore the women around me and ignore his head turns because my mind instantly wants to go into "how is he having sex with this one in his head?"

He has said this is a natural thing he has done since he was attracted to females. He pictures the ones he is into naked. Occasionally thinks of sexual things and he says it happens in seconds and goes away in seconds. He said sometimes he doesn't realize he is doing it but he can catch himself at times. He says he does not actively seek out women to fantasize about them, its more of a passing thought if they catch his eye. So I do, I try to deal with it. He has never lied to me, that I know of so I have no reason to not trust him.

Here is where I get uncomfortable.

He has looked, many times from moments he happens to be in my line of sight, checking out underage girls. Not like gawking, but glancing, and then a little longer look when doing a double take. These girls are maybe 13-17.

I confronted him about this after this weekend I saw him do it twice. He swears he doesn't even remember doing it. He said he doesn't usually monitor age when he spots someone he is attracted too. This includes the sexual thoughts that last a "split-second". He said if he is checking out a girl that happens to be underage its because he is attracted to the body type, which is like mine, and its not like he is going to I.D every girl. I am very thin and small. Some people mistake me for 16-18 years old still. I am 31. I told him he should know, morally, that anyone that looks my size has the possibility to be underage. There is a difference in my shape and a teens shape. I do have mild curves and the muscle build is different in a child vs a women.

I told him he should have boundaries if he is going to allow sexual thoughts of random women in his head. He said they are just thoughts and it rarely happens and he forgets before he can retain anything about it. I said "how do you know you do it then?" He says its because he has done it so long. the best way I can describe it is like drinking water. He doesn't always pay attention to when he is getting a glass of water just like he doesn't always notice he is thinking in this manner. So after one of few fights over this, I just was in shock, we still went to bed in not only disagreement, but feeling ashamed and confused as to where to go from here.

He doesn't see what he does as wrong. I told him morally he should know better. Just because they are thoughts that no one can see, doesn't mean he should be thinking of them and not redirecting those thoughts. He asked if he should feel ashamed because he loves my body so much. I said "I guess if it doesn't deter you away from younger girls, yes than. If you put my body in the category of a teenage girl, I should feel ashamed of my own body when you want me." These are my thoughts. He said he would never ever act on it. I am a mother of a girl who will one day reach puberty and who will have friends over. He seriously didn't grasp why this made me feel sick.

He did feel guilty.
He did feel ashamed.
He does not like how I feel about it.
He has agreed to get counseling to see if its something that he can change.
He and I don't know what we would do without one another.
We are each others best friend.
We are compatible in every way a couple can be.
I don't want to feel disgusted with this.
I cant get over the fact that he wont set boundaries to where his eyes and thoughts wonder too.
Fine look at other women, even fantasize if you "have too" but keep yourself in check man.

I want to move past this and have it not effect our sex life.
I need help coping and not wanting to be so angry.
I am seeing my therapist this week.
Am I ok to feel betrayed and confused over thoughts?
Is this a normal reaction or am I being overactive?

Thank you.
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post #2 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 03:24 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

It's opening a can of worms when you try to get inside someone's head like that. People are sexual creatures and be attracted to and turned on by others is natural. I understand the stigma related to post-pubescent, but underage kids. But that is more of a civilization's standard rather than an attraction one. This is a taboo subject to say the least, but mostly in today's society. I don't think anyone condones sex with someone underage, but to try to vilify him for what you think is in his head is too much. Maybe he's an idiot for sharing though...
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post #3 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 03:30 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

Wow, I would feel creeped out by that, too.

Please let us know what your therapist advises.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #4 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 03:59 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

This is one of those areas that men an women are totally different. I am like your husband, when I am out, I notice what I consider to be attractive women all the time. In a brief second, I consider if I would like to have sex with them or not, and then it is gone. I know that I will never meet these women or have a physical relationship with them, but the thought still pops into my head. There is no comparison going on either, it's like a leaf in the wind. One moment it is there, the next is lost in the myriad of other leaves blowing in the breeze.

My wife is similar to you, she will analyze what I tell her I am thinking and rake me over the coals for what's in my head. Just because I have a thought does not mean that I will take action, it's just a thought. I find it hard to believe that my wife doesn't have thoughts all the time as well. Whether it be sex or should I change my shoes? I have learned to sanitize what I say sometimes to avoid a potential negative response. It's not that I'm not honest with her, but I will filter what I say due to many bad experiences.

You can usually judge a man by his actions, what have your husbands been telling you? My opinion is that you are unfairly crucifying your husband for potentially having an impure thought. Just because a thought of having sex pops into our head has no bearing on our love or dedication to our marriage. Don't let this one incident detract from what otherwise sounds like a great relationship.
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post #5 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 04:09 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

I'm fairly open minded and have come to terms with the idea that many men like youth. However, when it comes to underage girls that is something completely different, even if he doesn't act upon it, its very disturbing. There may be a chance that he is not aware of how old those girls are (some young girls can look very sophisticated at a quick glance).

I don't think you are over-reacting - I would feel the same.
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post #6 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 04:11 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cognitivedissonance View Post
Fine look at other women, even fantasize if you "have too" but keep yourself in check man.
He is keeping himself "in check" if he is not acting on his thoughts. Thoughts are not actions. As far as the younger girls go ... in what setting is he looking at young girls? Girls in a school setting where it is obvious they are students and underage? Or, girls that are just "out and about"?

Also consider that many people are very bad at discerning age. Makeup and clothing can make young girls look over 18 years old. We have all seen examples of this ... 14 year old so called super-models that look 20 years old in magazines, well developed 8th graders in heavy makeup and sexy clothes that look 18+.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cognitivedissonance View Post
Am I ok to feel betrayed and confused over thoughts?
Is this a normal reaction or am I being overactive?
Yes, I think you are over-reacting. This is normal male behavior. UNLESS, you have evidence that he knowingly fantasizes about underage girls (e.g. through his porn habits). Also, is there something in your history that makes you automatically sensitive and assuming toward child sexual abuse?

You need to stop shaming him unless and until you are sure there is something to be ashamed of.

Give back your heart to itself,
to the stranger who has loved you all your life,
whom you have ignored for another . . .
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post #7 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 05:21 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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Originally Posted by peacem View Post
I'm fairly open minded and have come to terms with the idea that many men like youth. However, when it comes to underage girls that is something completely different, even if he doesn't act upon it, its very disturbing. There may be a chance that he is not aware of how old those girls are (some young girls can look very sophisticated at a quick glance).

I don't think you are over-reacting - I would feel the same.
Aren't you undermining your point that the young girls can look sophisticated? I mean, then he may think they are older. How can you blame him for that?

Look, it works both ways for me. There are even some attractive males that play sports and I get a quick glance from a woman or a taboo oooo as a joke. I think the more we get caught up in "non-actions" the more we cause issues in our lives. People become afraid of just being, then it pents up and explodes in an affair or worse.
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post #8 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 05:24 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Red Sonja View Post
He is keeping himself "in check" if he is not acting on his thoughts. Thoughts are not actions. As far as the younger girls go ... in what setting is he looking at young girls? Girls in a school setting where it is obvious they are students and underage? Or, girls that are just "out and about"?

Also consider that many people are very bad at discerning age. Makeup and clothing can make young girls look over 18 years old. We have all seen examples of this ... 14 year old so called super-models that look 20 years old in magazines, well developed 8th graders in heavy makeup and sexy clothes that look 18+.




Yes, I think you are over-reacting. This is normal male behavior. UNLESS, you have evidence that he knowingly fantasizes about underage girls (e.g. through his porn habits). Also, is there something in your history that makes you automatically sensitive and assuming toward child sexual abuse?

You need to stop shaming him unless and until you are sure there is something to be ashamed of.
How is she "shaming" him?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #9 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 05:30 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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Aren't you undermining your point that the young girls can look sophisticated? I mean, then he may think they are older. How can you blame him for that?
Not undermining but mitigating - I think we agree
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post #10 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 05:38 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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How is she "shaming" him?
By assigning psychopathy (would be child molester) to his normal behavior.

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whom you have ignored for another . . .
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post #11 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 05:41 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Red Sonja View Post
By assigning psychopathy (would be child molester) to his normal behavior.
They are underage, correct?

And even if she does see it that way, he is free to disagree. He has agency.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #12 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 05:44 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

I think that many people don't seem to realise that we can control what we look at and what we allow ourselves to think about.
I wouldn't let myself think about sex with another man. If I saw a good looking guy, I would deliberately look away and not look a second time. Its a habit that you can get into.

Have you heard of bouncing the eyes? Its when we notice someone who maybe isn't wearing a lot or who we find attractive, and we immediately bounce our eyes away. Its something that can become automatic if we practise it regularly. My husband does it. Also if he sees a scantily clad lady on tv for example, he will close his eyes. It something he has done all of his adult life.

I honestly don't think he needs any sortof counseling, he just needs to be more aware of what he does and begin to control it and not let his mind or eyes wander.
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post #13 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

I would much rather him share and I know than it be a secret I find out years later. He did admit to looking at underage. I am telling you what we spoke of that goes on in his head. I am not thinking this is what he is doing. He told me this is how it plays out in his head. I am not making my on version of what he thinks.. other than my part about w I FEEL about my body type now. That's my opinion though.
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post #14 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 06:09 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Cognitivedissonance View Post
I would much rather him share and I know than it be a secret I find out years later. He did admit to looking at underage. I am telling you what we spoke of that goes on in his head. I am not thinking this is what he is doing. He told me this is how it plays out in his head. I am not making my on version of what he thinks.. other than my part about w I FEEL about my body type now. That's my opinion though.
This is a really good book on how men can control their thoughts and what they look at. Its basically a Christian book but the same things apply to all men.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Eve...ry+mans+battle
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post #15 of 175 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 06:13 PM
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Re: Are thoughts really just thoughts?

Are this girls prepubescent?
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