Intimacy and Resentment - Page 4 - Talk About Marriage
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post #46 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 01:44 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

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Originally Posted by MEM2020 View Post
Astral,

After maybe - what - one year or two the passion left. But then at year four - you married A2. By marrying her - you sent a clear and convincing message that you not only tolerated her treatment of you, but you WANTED a lifetime of it.

So now - you are thinking - if she only wants to have intercourse once every week or two - the answer is for her to just pleasure you in between. Not going to happen.

You want to have passion - you need to create it. And you are meeting all her needs except her need for excitement.

I bet you worry about how she reacts to everything and she doesn't worry at all how you react to anything.
Yes, it looks like I will be responsible for creating the passion. I'm not entirely sure which of her needs I'm meeting/not meeting. This may be one root of the issue.

I do worry how she reacts, probably overly so, but that's my own baggage. She is actually quite conscientious about my reactions and responses in other areas, but there's a block when it comes to sex.
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post #47 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 01:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

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Withhold cuddling and conversation, and see how long it takes to get her attention. Maybe if you do, she'll understand why sexual intimacy is important to you. Right now, only her opinion matters to her, and what you need simply doesn't matter to her. Yes, your resentment will grow unless this is dealt with soon and decisively - otherwise, in a few years you'll be filing for divorce, or living in a miserable, sexless marriage.
I am already in a nasty pattern of resentment and withholding. I withhold and she seems to get the point, but after a short period things return to the normal pattern. This is not a good thing to do. It's a downward spiral. That's what I want to get away from.
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post #48 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 01:59 PM
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

She's anxious about insufficient money/financial stability.

You are anxious about an insufficient sex life.



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Originally Posted by astral.wheats View Post
In terms of frequency, it's hard to think of an upper limit, lol. I suppose I'd prefer sex daily--not necessarily intercourse, but some type of manual/oral would be great too.

In reality, we have intercourse weekly or bi-weekly, depending on what's going on. She will "take care of me" in other ways maybe once a month.

During the first 6 months, the frequency was off the charts. We had lots of sex. I'll leave it at that. After that, we sort of worked into the current pattern. So yes, this was an issue during pre-marriage, although I mostly tried to ignore it/convince myself it was fine.
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post #49 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 02:27 PM
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

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Originally Posted by astral.wheats View Post
Yes, it looks like I will be responsible for creating the passion. I'm not entirely sure which of her needs I'm meeting/not meeting. This may be one root of the issue.

I do worry how she reacts, probably overly so, but that's my own baggage. She is actually quite conscientious about my reactions and responses in other areas, but there's a block when it comes to sex.
In all sincerity, I think that you're trying to accomplish something impossible. It's your wife's job to also do her part to meet you half way. You're the one on the internet looking for information to try to create more passion in your marriage while your wife has no interest in the topic. The root of the issue is that your wife has little interest in a sexual relationship. If she put in half the effort that you have, you would be at a much better place.
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post #50 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 02:31 PM
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Do yourself a favor and give your attempt 1 year. Do your best to meet her needs. After that year if things don't improve you need to be willing to divorce. Of course you shouldn't tell her you're doing this. Also, you want to ensure she doesn't get pregnant. I'd suggest she goes off any birth control and you start wearing a condom (or two) every time. That way there shouldn't be any "oops" happening. Good luck!
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post #51 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 02:33 PM
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

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Psychologically, my habit is to defer to others and avoid conflict, which has made this a sticky situation to work through. Regardless, I'm beginning to understand that I need to assert myself and advocate better for my needs in the relationship.

I go out of my way to do a lot for her, simply because I want her to be happy. I don't feel like she does the same for me, at least nowhere near the same amount. I guess that's the heart of the issue, from my viewpoint.


I'm working on advocating for myself in a way that doesn't get her to shut down, as I know this type of communication is probably the best route for finding a compromise.

-Cold-shouldering and general withholding. Not a good idea. I know it doesn't lead to any long term change or a better situation. Weirdly though, she seems to get my point after a couple days and then will seek out sex. Then we repeat the cycle.

-She's told me that she doesn't feel like she should be responsible for my sexual needs, and tells me to masturbate more. I've tried to make clear how sex for me isn't just a physical thing. Masturbating is a detached physical act, but good sex makes me feel loved, valued, connected, etc...

.
Your tactics for getting your needs met are ineffective and very passive aggressive. The anger and resentment is coming from you keeping score - which never works BTW. You need to get to a point of strength where you're ok whether or not the marriage is successful. Once you lose the attachment to outcome, then you will be in a much better position to state your wants and needs. This is on you right now. Once you get to that point if your wife is not willing or unable to meet those needs, then it is up to you to either accept it, or move on. Focus on yourself for awhile and give it some time.

And she told you to masturbate more - ok so masturbate more. And don't run and hide in the bathroom and do it either. She doesn't want to have sex with you, then when you're both settling down in bed for the night, pull the covers off and masturbate right in front of her. Offer for her to join in and help anytime, but do it to completion right in front of her. Make sure you enjoy it and moan and grunt until you finish. Seriously - do this tonight. Then give her a kiss goodnight and go to sleep. I was over at a friends house years ago, and another buddy of mine was telling the story. One day his wife didn't want to have sex with him, so he sat down on the couch, whipped it out and took care of himself right there while she watched. She walked in the room while he was telling the story, and said "yeah that was pretty hot - it was a huge turn on".
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post #52 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 02:37 PM
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

For brevity sake, i am not posting as a mod. If I ever do post as a mod - I will open with the phrase: I am posting as a mod. Just wanted to make that clear.


Astral,
1. She needs to get off hormonal birth control as that can kill a woman's sex drive.
2. You are unintentionally doing a lot of passion suppressing stuff.

If I was A2, I would he thinking: If this was so important to Astral, why the heck didnt he address it before he married me?

Intimacy has two dimensions - mechanical/physical dimension and an emotional dimension. The emotional dimension is best described as intense transparency.

You want the physical dimension of intimacy, normal stuff - but you've not been transparent emotionally.

And I wonder if you realize how important excitement is. I am guessing not.

She does NOT want to be treated like an emotional Rubik's cube - spreads her legs when you color match the tiles on all six sides.

Be transparent and playful - and wrestle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by astral.wheats View Post
Yes, it looks like I will be responsible for creating the passion. I'm not entirely sure which of her needs I'm meeting/not meeting. This may be one root of the issue.

I do worry how she reacts, probably overly so, but that's my own baggage. She is actually quite conscientious about my reactions and responses in other areas, but there's a block when it comes to sex.
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post #53 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 02:52 PM
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Do yourself a favor and give your attempt 1 year. Do your best to meet her needs. After that year if things don't improve you need to be willing to divorce. Of course you shouldn't tell her you're doing this. Also, you want to ensure she doesn't get pregnant. I'd suggest she goes off any birth control and you start wearing a condom (or two) every time. That way there shouldn't be any "oops" happening. Good luck!
I think that she should know that this "trail period" is happening. Let her know that you will do the best you can to meet her needs and that you expect the same from her. If nothing is resolved, there will be a divorce (you have to be firm on that and let her know there's no changing the date or no excuses. If there's no improvement or you aren't satisfied, it's over). I think this will make her realize that her method of solving the "problem" will not work. I would file the divorce paper work and let her see it so she can see that this is no bull and is the real thing. She obviously thinks she has the upper hand, you have to try to take that position away from her.

Based on what you've said, I don't think you'll do this though. I don't think you're willing to be tough enough on her to solve the problem.

She obviously has no problem being tough with you.

"I've paid double for every transgression I've ever made and that motel and that boat are little to ask for"

Last edited by jb02157; 05-18-2017 at 02:59 PM.
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post #54 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 02:57 PM
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

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Originally Posted by astral.wheats View Post
Soon, I'll be in France for a couple weeks on a fellowship, so we'll see if the pattern 'fluctuates' when I return.
I was meaning more while you were both away together enjoying a holiday, rather than just one of you being away.
(But perhaps you could take a weekend away or something to celebrate when you get back and see what things are like then.)

Good luck with those conversations. Remember the trick - "I feel" not "You do".

[Free Marriage Tip #37 - requiring some pre-planning, generally yields high returns]
While you are away, make sure that she thinks about you a lot. Aside from the obvious (phone calls, texts, emails etc.), think of creative ways to make her feel special, whilst missing you. (Flirt, but subtly).

One of the most romantic things my H ever did for me when we were going to be apart was prepare ahead and leave a few little notes in strange/unexpected places for me to find (tucked inside my laptop, a book I was reading, my underwear drawer, taped to the icecream tub etc.). Some of them were romantic, some of them were funny and some of them were just cute. By the time we were back together, I was VERY eager to see him. A friend of ours made sure his wife got a small delivery of flowers a few times a week while he was away for a lengthy period. (I believe that this had a similar effect - but then they are the type of couple who have always had an amazing sex life... sigh.)

I have learned now that while those who speak about one's miseries usually hurt, those who keep silence hurt more. ― C.S. Lewis

FINE PRINT: My post is simply my own opinion (unless indicated otherwise). Which I believe I am entitled to express, as best as I can.
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post #55 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 03:11 PM
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

OP, if you honestly think you may not be meeting her emotional needs, then I recommend you buy and read two books: Lovebusters and His Needs, Her Needs. Both are by Willard Harley. Read them in that order. The first will let you know what you may be doing that is killing love - creating emotional disconnect and smothering sexual attraction - in your marriage. You will need to stop doing those things in order for the second book to do much good. His Needs, Her Needs will give you a good explanation of what the most common emotional/relationship needs are for most men and most women. That should help you figure out what her needs are and better ways to meet them, if you're not doing so now. Eventually, it would be ideal if your wife would also read the books and implement the plans provided.

However, as has been pointed out to you, you married your wife 3+ years after you started to have issue with a lack of sex in the relationship. What that basically means is that you let her know - by marrying her - that you were happy with the amount of sex you two were having. Even if you said otherwise, she likely assumed that if this were actually a deal breaker you wouldn't have married her. You should never marry unless you're perfectly happy with the relationship as it stands before marriage, and are willing to accept the relationship - again, exactly as it stands - for the rest of your life. You cannot change other people. And marriage does not improve bad, or even kinda iffy, relationships. Ever.

You'll find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our own point of view. - Obi Wan Kenobi
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post #56 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 03:18 PM
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

I wouldn't give up hope though, just because you married her even though sex was less frequent than you need. You should expect to have your (reasonable) intimate needs met in marriage and you two can start working towards that at any time. But it will require that you work to meet her intimate needs too to create feelings of desire for her, which it sounds like you're willing to do.

Most men and women are different (don't we all know it!). Many of us simply don't desire sex unless we are emotionally connected, through intimate conversation, affection, and companionship.
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post #57 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 03:22 PM
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

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I wouldn't give up hope though, just because you married her even though sex was less frequent than you need. You should expect to have your (reasonable) intimate needs met in marriage and you two can start working towards that at any time. But it will require that you work to meet her intimate needs too to create feelings of desire for her, which it sounds like you're willing to do.

Most men and women are different (don't we all know it!). Many of us simply don't desire sex unless we are emotionally connected, through intimate conversation, affection, and companionship.
While that's absolutely true, his wife is going to have go get on board with meeting his needs at some point, too. She may naturally start doing that again if her needs are being consistently met. If she doesn't, and isn't willing to actually work on it, though, there may be little he can do other than divorce so they are both free to find more compatible partners. At some point, she's going to need to know that such a thing is an option if they cannot create a loving and fulfilling marriage that works for both of them.

You'll find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our own point of view. - Obi Wan Kenobi
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post #58 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 03:25 PM
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

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And I wonder if you realize how important excitement is. I am guessing not.

She does NOT want to be treated like an emotional Rubik's cube - spreads her legs when you color match the tiles on all six sides.

Be transparent and playful - and wrestle.



AW - do you know what turns her on? Not physically exactly. But in her head?

As we're all anonymous here:
My husband still does not get far if he "requests" oral sex cold (I have/had issues). If it seems like he's begging, then the likelihood just got less. If he pleasures me first, then the likelihood is looking up again. If he calls me on the way home from the airport and issues an order ... telling me to be ready and waiting and what to wear... or else - then I'm falling all over myself looking for my red (excruciatingly uncomfortable) high heels. Then giving him what he wants is not only what I now want more than anything, but the process is also incredible pleasurable for me. It makes no sense to me - but it works. Look, not all women are receptive to a "50 shades" approach ... but for me, wanting/needing sex happens almost entirely in my head. And that can be because I feel treasured, feel connected, feel dominated, feel ... well, whatever. You need to figure out what that is for your wife.

Watch what does turn her on when she is receptive. Experiment a little. Look at what she reads.

I have learned now that while those who speak about one's miseries usually hurt, those who keep silence hurt more. ― C.S. Lewis

FINE PRINT: My post is simply my own opinion (unless indicated otherwise). Which I believe I am entitled to express, as best as I can.
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post #59 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 03:36 PM
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

Its risky. He may get what he wants until she finds a way to get a permanent hold on him - like a
"accidental" pregnancy.

I also suspect that he doesn't want her to feel she has to have sex or he will leave. He wants to be desired.


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Originally Posted by jb02157 View Post
I think that she should know that this "trail period" is happening. Let her know that you will do the best you can to meet her needs and that you expect the same from her. If nothing is resolved, there will be a divorce (you have to be firm on that and let her know there's no changing the date or no excuses. If there's no improvement or you aren't satisfied, it's over). I think this will make her realize that her method of solving the "problem" will not work. I would file the divorce paper work and let her see it so she can see that this is no bull and is the real thing. She obviously thinks she has the upper hand, you have to try to take that position away from her.

Based on what you've said, I don't think you'll do this though. I don't think you're willing to be tough enough on her to solve the problem.

She obviously has no problem being tough with you.
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post #60 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 04:02 PM
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

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Its risky. He may get what he wants until she finds a way to get a permanent hold on him - like a
"accidental" pregnancy.

I also suspect that he doesn't want her to feel she has to have sex or he will leave. He wants to be desired.
During the "trail period" birth control would be a must. I don't think that he'll ever be desired by her, but that may be the best he's going to get...from her anyway. Unless she cuts the BS, he'll never have a real marriage unless he has it with someone else. I'm hoping filing will be a way of cutting through her BS, if not it's all over anyway.

"I've paid double for every transgression I've ever made and that motel and that boat are little to ask for"
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