Intimacy and Resentment - Page 8 - Talk About Marriage
Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

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post #106 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 09:41 AM
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

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Accepting one way sex - when it is freely offered - is fine. I do so without hesitation.

But asking for it - is a very bad idea. Sorry.
Asking for bj or hj is a bad idea?

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post #107 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 09:42 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

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Correct, this however is an extremely common view among women. Even though your wife may well freely give one sided things from time to time, she likely DOES thing this sex thing has nothing to do with intimacy. Takes active verbal 'combat' repeatedly over years to make her understand that her assumptions are actually wrong.
Something to explore. This is was hard for me to talk about in the past--I had convinced myself, similar to She'sStillGotIt's thinking, that I was being selfish and unreasonable. I thought I was using her, and that I probably should just take care of myself. Lots of internalized shame there. I'm done with that now.
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post #108 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 09:45 AM
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

Of course depends on the person

I've had my wife tell me that something I was saying was getting her aroused and that I should stop because she had to [sleep / do chores / didn't feel like it tonight / miscellaneous excuse]



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snip
So the husband, sometimes a wife but usually a husband here at TAM, wants his wife to want sex more and she can't, physically can't accommodate this. She can't make herself want sex more often. But she can make herself be open to being turned on and aroused by a pattern of sexual touching that works for her.

snip
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post #109 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 09:48 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

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@Buddy400 your post from the end of my thread:

So, I read this entire thread in one go last night, stayed up way too late. Lately it's been very important that I get enough sleep and I thought (many times) to myself how weird it was that I was staying up late to do this. I do a lot of thinking about topics I consider important. Lately I've been thinking a lot about relationships, particularly between men and women, particularly about sex. Since my usual interests are History, Public Policy, Global Warming and Baseball, this topic doesn't seem to fit. Especially since I have few problems in this area personally. But, then again, what’s more important than sex?

I was describing what I’d spent the last night doing to a friend that shares the same diverse group of interests. He asked what the story was and I highlighted the main elements of Nueklas’ tale. As I got near the end, he asked “Does it end well?”.

Well, that depends. It seemed like a happy ending. After all, there’d been self-improvement, more satisfying sex. But I was haunted by something Nueklas had said early on: "I fight all day at work. It's business. No one is going to give it to you, so you have to take it. Home is the sanctuary. Last thing I want there is more of what I just left at the office. It's not so much conflict avoidance at that point as it is a strong desire to have one place in your life with no conflict at all."

By that measure, maybe it wasn’t that happy an ending after all. He’s got to be on the top of his game all day long at work and he just wants to come home and have his wife respect him, love him, enjoy his company and relax in his “sanctuary”. I don’t think that’s a bad thing to want. Sure, constant striving leads to more achievement. But really, sometimes you just want to relax. Be at home. Whatever was going on in his wife’s head; could it really have been worth taking this away from him?
--------------------------------------------------------------

I'd answer your question this way: without my children, who I adore, no, it's not worth it. Which is why, if I were the OP and at his stage of life, I would run for the hills.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I can definitely identify a lot with this--being beaten like a dog all day by the work I do, then coming home to do what seems like more work, just so I can feel satisfied. I wonder how many people feel like they don't have to work for that sanctuary.
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post #110 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 09:52 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

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Accepting one way sex - when it is freely offered - is fine. I do so without hesitation.

But asking for it - is a very bad idea. Sorry.
Seconded, I never ask. Sort of ruins it.
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post #111 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 09:53 AM
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

No, that really isn't it for many people and that misconception I think causes a lot of these issue.

Like most men and many women I can get myself off in a few minutes anytime I want. I the goal of sex were to get off, it would be completely stupid to go to all the effort of interacting with another person for that.

For most of us, the point of sex is not getting off. Its the interaction and intimacy with our partners.

Even quickies and sexual favors are about the interaction, not the O.

Its a little like food - you could have a TV dinner or other instant food every night if the only goal were sustenance. You may even eat fast food when you are hungry and want food, but a nice dinner with good company is completely different.



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Yes, because nothing spells 'intimacy' and being 'connected' better than getting a blow job or hand job to tide you over til you get your full sex session.



Stop playing the 'intimacy' card and call it for what it is. You just want to get off more and not have to jerk off to porn. Jesus, call a spade spade and stop with the 'intimacy' nonsense.
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post #112 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 09:56 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

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She is reacting to your intentions because she knows you are touching her that way to turn her on and for some reason this makes her feel manipulated. In truth, she is being manipulated. Manipulated into being aroused. Yes...and....?

The shift needs to be in the attitude toward sex. Does she think sex should be some organic unplanned spontaneous event? If she allows herself to be intentionally aroused what does that mean? Ask her?

Attitudes about sex are multilayered but it's been my experience that young(er) women seem to think they are giving it up. They are not giving it up to their husbands. This is the confusing messaging girls and women struggle with. Don't give it up, make him work for it, make him put a ring on it, make him prove his worth. Okay but now you're married so....he has done all of that and you can ditch the attitude that you're giving something up.

You have your emotional stuff to unpack, passive, avoidant and maybe a tad emotionally dependent. She has her emotional stuff to unpack, attitudes toward married sex vs singlehood sex, and her coyness (or possibly not really knowing exactly what does turn her on, or maybe she knows but can't admit it) all need fresh air.

As others have pointed out, the sex issue has to be something you both work on together because you can do all sorts of mental gymnastics to get regular sex but the moment you wish to relax it all ends. As neuklas has admitted, he resents the level of efffort he has to put into getting laid. None of this makes for a happy marriage.


Can she relax and let you turn her on? Can she enjoy you learning her body and allow herself to respond? Can she rethink her attitudes about sex and see sex as a shared enjoyment no matter how messy the home is, or whatever kind of stress present that inhibits her from "wanting" sex?

"Honey, I just want to see how many orgasms you can have in 30 minutes so be quiet until the timer goes off."

"How many times can I bring you to the edge before you threaten me with death if I don't finish you off?"
Thank you for this. That was all really insightful!
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post #113 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 10:41 AM
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

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Of course depends on the person

I've had my wife tell me that something I was saying was getting her aroused and that I should stop because she had to [sleep / do chores / didn't feel like it tonight / miscellaneous excuse]
Why does she see sex as something that takes away from the other more important ways to spend time? Other than sleep and even then only if a small measure of sleep deprivation would be utterly disastrous, none of those other activities are more important than renewing the marital bond through the neural chemical reaction good sex brings.

Her attitude about sex needs some adjusting.

"Some women are blessed with multi-orgasmic ability for a reason and I'm damn sure not going to waste a blessing" ~FrenchFry

"Vaginas are tricky creatures." ~Lucy999
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post #114 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 10:44 AM
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

She just doesn't see it as important and doesn't understand why I do.

For reasons neither of us understand, she typically sleeps very badly after we've had sex, even if it was hours before bedtime.

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Why does she see sex as something that takes away from the other more important ways to spend time? Other than sleep and even then only if a small measure of sleep deprivation would be utterly disastrous, none of those other activities are more important than renewing the marital bond through the neural chemical reaction good sex brings.

Her attitude about sex needs some adjusting.
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post #115 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 10:46 AM
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

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Asking for bj or hj is a bad idea?

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It's a bad idea if sex is a battle ground.

You think you're asking for her to show you love in a way that is meaningful to you, and considering she doesn't want to have sex this is a compromise.

But what she hears is that you've got a load of cum with her name on it that needs delivering. IOW, not love but jizz.

Work on adjusting the attitudes. Until then what you say will not be heard the way you intend.

"Some women are blessed with multi-orgasmic ability for a reason and I'm damn sure not going to waste a blessing" ~FrenchFry

"Vaginas are tricky creatures." ~Lucy999
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post #116 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 10:49 AM
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

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She just doesn't see it as important and doesn't understand why I do.

For reasons neither of us understand, she typically sleeps very badly after we've had sex, even if it was hours before bedtime.
I do too and I don't understand it either. And I love sex, would happily give up sleep for good sex.

Maybe sex, rest and a back rub?

"Some women are blessed with multi-orgasmic ability for a reason and I'm damn sure not going to waste a blessing" ~FrenchFry

"Vaginas are tricky creatures." ~Lucy999
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post #117 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 10:57 AM
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

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That may very well be the case, but why isn't she doing something about her needs getting met? It seems that it's always the partner who is having less sex than they desire who is expected to meet the others needs first, with the "promise" of more sex as a result.

Because as stated in His Needs, Her Needs, we need our spouse to meet our intimate emotional needs: affection, intimate conversation, recreational companionship, and sexual fulfillment. We can't meet those needs ourselves, hence the OP's problem. Once we try to start doing that, the marriage can further deteriorate. We need our spouse to meet those needs for us- otherwise, why be married?

Why not the other way around? OP will desire more non-sexual intimacy with his wife, if his needs are more closely being met, no?

Because most men (though not all) list sex and recreational companionship as their top 2 ENs and most women (though not all) list affection and conversation as their top 2 for creating feelings of love, Dr. Harley says that many couples struggle with getting their ENs met by their spouse, which causes them to fall further out of love. He has couples think back to when they were dating, when meeting those 4 needs was seemingly easy because of the feelings of love. Typically when a couple was dating, they did not have sex without dating. Conversation came easier because we were trying to get to know the other person, we showed interest, and affection came more naturally. He learned that most couples spent around 15 hours a week together doing fun things. The couple likely couldn't keep their hands off each other. He tries to recreate that for married couples, who typically stop talking to each other out of interest, and affection has often fallen to the wayside, and time together consists of household chores, logistics, and is often interrupted by the kids (in other words- not so fun). If a couple recreates the romance by meeting the 3 non-sexual needs, the couple falls back in love, which is what many women (not all) need to desire sex, whereas many men crave sex even without feelings of love.

Yet the default response to the person who's needs are sexual, and not being met, is that they have to ensure their partner (who is withholding sex) is getting their needs met first. It's never the other way around.
In His Needs, Her Needs, he also states that when women have sex out of obligation or because it is expected of them, instead of out of desire, sexual aversions can develop. He found that if a couple instead starts spending 15 hours a week to date each other, they will be in love, and this solves most sexual issues he sees in his practice (and he's been practicing for decades).


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post #118 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 11:04 AM
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

We've tried that. Its a really strange effect. She feels sleepy afterwards and we often doze together cuddling. She then sleeps well early in the night but wakes up very early and can't sleep again. Really strange.

Maybe psychological?

Anyway, didn't mean to thread-jack.



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I do too and I don't understand it either. And I love sex, would happily give up sleep for good sex.

Maybe sex, rest and a back rub?
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post #119 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 11:08 AM
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

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I do too and I don't understand it either. And I love sex, would happily give up sleep for good sex.

Maybe sex, rest and a back rub?
Have you had kids?

I used to be this way too, but after my first was born, who was an intense baby, that all changed. Now I need my sleep more than food, sex, and any other bodily need.
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post #120 of 147 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 11:27 AM
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Re: Intimacy and Resentment

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We've tried that. Its a really strange effect. She feels sleepy afterwards and we often doze together cuddling. She then sleeps well early in the night but wakes up very early and can't sleep again. Really strange.

Maybe psychological?

Anyway, didn't mean to thread-jack.
Huh... I wake up the next morning with a sex hangover ready for more. Good sex makes me want it again and again but I have to be patient and allow my husband time.


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Have you had kids?

I used to be this way too, but after my first was born, who was an intense baby, that all changed. Now I need my sleep more than food, sex, and any other bodily need.
LOL, my oldest is 30. Back when they were little, sex was the very last thing on my list!

"Some women are blessed with multi-orgasmic ability for a reason and I'm damn sure not going to waste a blessing" ~FrenchFry

"Vaginas are tricky creatures." ~Lucy999
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