Threetimesalady

But, what if "the goods" is faking it...A man can play the game of a hot libido just as many and I mean many women both have and do....There are many stories of the hot man they married that turned cold after marriage...I stayed a virgin because I was taught this part of life...I guess I considered myself special...Don't ask me why as I don't know...I had one guy I blind dated and believe me this was the only one I ever did in my life, who when the other couple went off, told me he would throw me over a cliff if I didn't give it to him...Yet, I held my ground...He put his hands on my throat and I challenged him...He was about five years older than I was...He said I could kill you for not doing this...I said if that is what you want to do, then do it...That is either my finest hour or dumbest....Seeing it would have been a rape, I would say my finest, but I would have probably have been dead...

Any man, just like a woman can hide behind a facade and be what you want him to be...Sexually, this to me is faking it and being the perfect lover...I was lucky, I got the perfect lover...However, this didn't happen until I grew up and learned to know myself...Thus my thread:

51 Years...Till Death Do We Part My Love..Then Grab Me As You Go...

And believe me I will be adding a lot to it...There are so many things that women must both know about themselves and the men they date....I was lucky....I picked a winner...Saying this, it can go both ways...Man-winner and woman-winner....I also say if it isn't right, then move on...I would have...You have one life...Live it...Take care...

Threetimesalady

Hi Interlocutor and thanks for your kind words...I have my own thread, but every once in a while get bold and venture into the world of youth...It is on Long Term Marriages....I never knew how to find if I got answers to emails here so stayed in my place of security...That being one thread...The url. on this is:

51 Years...Till Death Do We Part My Love..Then Grab Me As You Go...

Again thanks for your kind thoughts...You see all this comes from being both older and young at the same time....One more thing..I plan on only posting here at this site....and along the way filling that thread with many thoughts and actions of life and a wonderful marriage...Take care....

Interlocutor

As a member of many GM-based auto forums, many of us always observe a phenomenon that occurs when people try to advise what car/engine/etc. is best: Brand Loyalty

You have the extreme GM guys that will trash Ford, and vice versa.

You have the tempered GM guys that will give credit to Ford but still maintain that their GM is better, and vice versa.

However, the GM guy still owns a GM, and vice versa for the Ford guy.

Brand loyalty injects heavy bias into this sort of discussion, and the BEST advice always comes from the GM guy that bought a Ford or the Ford guy that bought a GM, or the guys that own both, or the guys that regret their purchase.

The same thing can happen here. Of course the majority of the people that waited for marriage are going to uphold waiting for marriage. They're heavily biased. The same applies with those that maintain NOT waiting for marriage. Those are their "brands."

However,

Here's the litmus test.

How many people say, "I waited for marriage, and I regret it. I wish I would have experimented with my spouse before marrying him/her. It would have helped me make a better decision" -vs- "I didn't wait for marriage, and I regret it. I wish I wouldn't have done anything with my spouse before marrying him/her. It would have helped me make a better decision"?

Would we even get one person to claim the latter?

Interlocutor

I will follow everything you post. Once in a while the wisdom of a rare woman temporarily brings me back from misogyny. What a lucky husband you must have.

Sadly, today's modern dysfunctional woman wouldn't even understand what you write, so distant it would be from their self-concept... I hope some do and wake the **** up.

COguy

I know an a$$load of people in that latter bucket. One of my mentors was telling me about all the baggage him and his wife were dealing with from past relationships. How he hated thinking about her comparing him to past lovers and thinking about her past experiences with other guys. He was really envious of those of us that were waiting.

I'm not trying to make it into this really big deal, because honestly I think there are more important things to worry about in life and relationships. I just saw merit in it in my life, and I think it was worth the effort and if I could do it over again I certainly would. I also reject this notion that it's unhealthy to marry someone without screwing them first. As someone else said, there's other ways to determine sexual compatibility besides having sex, and in the grand scheme of things it is a small part of marriage. I'd much rather be married to someone who shares my views of how to raise a family and how we spend time together then what sexual positions she likes or the "fit" of her vagina. You can teach someone how to f*ck, you can't teach someone commitment.

Threetimesalady

Thank you...I am married to the neatest man in the world...Oh, we will still trade barbs, but they are never serious...He keeps me where I belong...A woman must never own a man, she must treasure him...However, this can only be done if she marries or partners with the person she would fly to the moon with...I would have then and just get that spaceship ready and I would board now...Even after all these years he thinks I am the sexiest woman in the world...And may I add from his sexual prowess at this late age in life, I, like all women are capable of being, may be...

I, too, hope that they will learn from some words I write...That is why I am going to continue and leave my life story of who and what we are here...Sometimes I wonder if anyone ever really marries for love?....My best to you.....Take care....C

Interlocutor

I used past lovers to figure out what I liked and didn't like. I wouldn't have known otherwise, speaking for myself.

I, honestly, have never met anyone that regretted sleeping with their spouse before marrying him/her because it misled their decision to marry. That's the latter bucket. Your mentor's problem doesn't count as someone in the latter bucket. I asked if anyone has ever thought:

"I didn't wait for marriage, and I regret it. I wish I wouldn't have done anything with my spouse before marrying him/her. It would have helped me make a better decision"

Again, find me someone who has believed that.

And sex is NOT a small part in the scheme of things. It's one of the most important important reasons I got married, and since my wife and I are still able to pre-elderly age, it's the biggest perk of my marriage today.

You don't have to have premarital sex to marry successfully, but doing do so eliminates ONE, avoidable quality that you can determine whether your future spouse has/hasn't.

I still don't understand the reasoning that since there are so many qualities you CAN'T know in advance, we must then downplay those we CAN. Logically, you determine as many of those that you CAN because you might find something sexually you DON'T like and save yourself the trouble... And NO, you cannot teach some people how to ****... Some people will NEVER get it. They are too selfish to conceive of pleasing someone else. Need proof? I can direct you to threads here with spouses who have been unable to teach their spouses to do anything because their spouses refuse to please anyone but themselves. In SOME of these cases, there was no premarital sex, an experience they wish they had before signing the dotted line. Is the lady who hates uncircumcised penises going to teach her husband to be circumcised? There are things you can't teach but can find out through premarital sex.

It's not a big deal, and of course I can appreciate your point of view too... But what you posted does not qualify as someone in the latter bucket. You misinterpreted past lovers in there. I mentioned the present spouse in the hypothetical scenario. You have yet to find me one.

I'd rather be married to someone that shares my family views AND sexual philosophy than to someone that only shares my family views, but that's just me... And it felt so good knowing all of this in advance... To look at my future wife next to me at the altar and know so many great things, not all things, but all the things I COULD know in advance, imparting great security in KNOWLEDGE instead of faith. I'm not trying to convince you, just having friendly discussion.

Again, barring fictitious anecdote, I don't think you'll find anyone in the latter bucket, but I can find tons in the former... And that's not brand loyalty or what "I" did/(metaphorically bought). It's the regret of others speaking, a consumer report if you will.

Thewife

I waited H was my 1 and only sexual partner for 13 over years now. We don't have any major sexual problems.

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"A good marriage is one which allows for change and growth in the individuals and in the way they express their love."

SimplyAmorous

Oh my I could write a BOOK on this question: I very much understand where Develli0331 is coming from , and have talked to countless others who have been hindered similar to myself ...

My trying to make sense of it all - from my own experience...

When arousing Passion & our Mindsets Collide - Sexually Repressed to "Awakened"

.

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"Love Good Blog"

SimplyAmorous

Me & mine didn't do oral at all before marraige... but even the touching would seem irrational to you. Had I met a man like yourself (there was plenty to go around) with this attitude (it is belittling)... I would know he was not for me... it is clear you don't see the act as "sacred", highly treasured, I would feel of no more value than the previous woman or the next.

FOR ME, the genital into genital = the becoming one..... something very "sacred" about that.

Everything else I now see... as FUN, experimental, but genital into genital has the POWER to create LIFE itself......does anything else in this life carry such weight, such awesome power and responsibility with it ...I ask ??

I don't see this as irrational at all, I have changed my views on sex in many ways, but in this, I have remained the same. Best to marry someone who views it as ourselves, this is very helpful .

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"Love Good Blog"

Interlocutor

You have failed miserably at understanding my point, which if you had gotten, you'd see I do not think it not to be treasured AT ALL.

What's IRRATIONAL is to condemn as immoral or anti-secular (sinful), something which later screws some women up (see threetimesalady's VERY wise posts), the intercourse a woman might have had premaritally, condemning this while dismissing petting, making out, oral, hands, etc. which are essentially, sexual behaviors of a different kind simply. Many Christian girls are raised this way. They will sit in my classroom and tell other friends of theirs, "Nah, I didn't do anything wrong, just oral."

What's RATIONAL is to uphold them ALL (sexual behaviors) as special, too special to express with emptiness... The moment I first kissed my wife, the moments we first caressed each other in bed, mind and body racing, making love, ALL OF IT, is special, never to be forgotten even if I hadn't married her... But to tell a girl she is immoral or sinful to sleep with a man out of wedlock simply to have her doing oral/hands with her boyfriend so she could "SAVE" herself is absurd. She didn't save herself. She just saved one kind of sexual behavior, sexual intercourse.

Again, AND PAY ATTENTION THIS TIME, it's irrational to think there is a difference, morally, between one girl getting oral sex premaritally and another girl getting intercourse premaritally. They may both be right or both be wrong, but to think there is a difference is IRRATIONAL. God probably doesn't want you doing either if you believe in him (sorry, Him, some people take the proper pronoun very seriously), but if you're having oral sex with your boyfriend every weekend to think you are "saving" something for marriage, all you saved was what? Intercourse? Virginity? Some of these concepts are so antiquated and lack modern clarification... A woman who has had intercourse ONCE premaritally is not a virgin, right? She failed to save herself for her husband, right? But if she sucked off 10 guys before her husband 100 times each instead, she's a virgin, right? She saved herself successfully? Do you find this rational? This is what many young women believe, something I have much experience in since I teach high school.

Truly, any behavior of this kind should be special. NOTHING I wrote indicates that I don't agree with you on that. On the contrary, I wholeheartedly agree. ANYTHING regarding pleasing each other's genitals, these tools that can create life, is TRULY as special as you can get!!!

I am proud to say I HAVE NEVER slept with a woman I didn't have deep feelings for even if the relationship failed later. At the time, each of those moments, down to the slightest kiss, was special to me.

You have very obviously refuted an imaginary position, probably from hasty reading. I would warn you to read more carefully before you make baseless claims about me having a belittling attitude toward sexual feelings or about me "clearly" not treasuring something or other. You are "clearly" barking up the wrong tree and such judgments reveal poor comprehension.

Unless you wish to maintain that genital on genital contact ONLY is special while oral or hand on genital etc. are empty acts, then you are engaging in a strawman fallacy or have confused my post with someone else's I think.

Let me know, because I can retract everything I posted and wouldn't mind debating you on that... If that's what you maintain. If so, here's some food for thought before you post: Do you think a good, decent, honest man would rather marry a woman who slept with one man a few times or a woman who gave and received oral to/from over 5 guys hundreds of times? Who's the virgin? Who's not? Who saved herself? Do you want to maintain that genital-on-genital is what's sacred? Let me know, because I don't think my hypothetical decent man would be lining up to marry the latter. lol

This kind of thinking is so antiquated and irrational it's like still using an abacus or sunclock.

SimplyAmorous

Boy did you ever tell me Interlocutor !! I think I hit a nerve and you have a right to rant back at me.... I thank you for that. I like what you say here. I do. I think very much like my friend ThreeTimesALady on here, and I did notice she LIKED some of your posts and you are right --- I DID read rather hastily this morning -usually I am more careful but today I was in a rush....but I am glad now as you have replied with some food for thought.

Very interesting you are a School teacher and see this sort of thing every day . The attitudes, the carelessness of sex, even without intercourse, there is no emotional or commitment to these acts then- with these boys ? I would surely be against that also. .

I am still trying to figure all of this out in my own mind , as I suffered the whole guilt/shame merry go round for what we did -we were terribly emotionally attached & planned to marry but I felt God Judged us at every turn, what can you do, when you are indoctrinated every week with this stuff, how can it not affect your psyche.

Having 6 kids of my own to raise uprightly, they love their youth group & are getting these same teachings that it is ALL wrong -no touching, nothing until you are married, 2 of them wear their silver rings proudly - I feel it is too stringent personally-they are setting themselves up for a fall even - I don't want them to end up like me , what I struggled with mentally before marraige & after, those hang ups followed me right into my marriage... my biggest regrets of all.

It was funny, a couple weeks ago, I tried to post on a Christian forum about this subject and got banned within 2 hours, they called me immoral & jumped all over me...just for the attempt at asking.

I am somewhere in the middle on it all. I feel the world is way too loose but the church is way too strict. I DO very much like the way you describe it all in your post. I speak very similar in my thread that I put my heart in soul into on this subject so my daughter makes "good" decisions -without regret : What I will Teach my Daughter about SEX...in relation to LOVE, her emotions, her life

I get what you are saying here. I personally would never give that away if I didn't feel a lifelong commitment though, but I think you agree with that, so it seems.


No, it is not rational the way you described this here. I am no longer a christian, I have way too many issues with scripture, I can never go back.


No, I do not believe that. I feel it all should be with someone you love and trust and ....for me, going to marry.

It's all about the heart, isn't it.

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"Love Good Blog"

Lionelhutz

I didn't wait. I'm really glad I didn't wait.

And since far too many people marry that should never marry, I am not going to suggest to my son that he should feel the need to wait until marriage or even assume he will want to marry at any point in his life.

heartsbeating

I agree!

My husband was my first and only. I didn't plan/wait for marriage. Heck, I didn't even anticipate marrying anyone but I fell in love with him and knew I wanted to spend my life with him.

I waited for love. I knew it would crush me if I didn't feel loved and respected by the man I gave myself to. I was protective of myself and didn't want to be anyone's fool. I wasn't my husband's first. He waited for me to be ready though and I think we did nearly everything under the sun during that time and leading up to intercourse. We explored and experimented and had lots of sexy, sensual fun. In hindsight, this was the best thing we could have done.

It never crossed my mind to try different lovers or feel like I was missing out - maybe because him and I just synced on so many levels and our sexual journey together was good. That's not to say we haven't had our moments of disconnect and our relationship has been all peachy.

It's interesting to me when I read here that many feel that sex is the glue that's held them together. While sex is certainly important to me/us, I always felt our bond and friendship was the glue. Not to be confused with just being "friends" but I not only love him but I like him as a person too. I think our mutual understanding of each other has been our glue. When my 30's hormones kicked in, my own sexual preferences seemed to get kicked up a notch with that drive. He's been understanding in this and it feels like we're rediscovering each other sexually again.

If he hadn't met me when we were young, I'm not so sure I'd be as guarded with my sexuality as I matured... but I have never felt I 'missed out' by having him as my only lover.

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"Victims; aren't we all" - The Crow

heartsbeating

oops, but maybe I shouldn't be on this thread as I didn't wait until marriage. He's been my only lover and while I cherish that we've experienced this journey together, I don't necessarily think it's enhanced our marriage and/or is something I regret either.

Sex is special because it's him and I. End of. Am I glad I found a sexual partner that I vibe with? Yes. Am I glad that I didn't get hurt or feel used through sex, before him? Yes. Would my husband have cared if I'd had experiences before him? No.

The "special" to me is being together.

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"Victims; aren't we all" - The Crow