Tall Average Guy

Then what? Recognizing that people are risk averse does nothing to address the problems. Getting them to see that risk may be the only way to solve the problem, so that they truly understand the risks of both doing something and not doing something seems the better way.

I have to say I disagree. If people really knew where the fault lines were, they could better navigate these issues. They may know were the surface faults are, the ones that will create immediate issues. I know my wife will yell at me if I don't take out the trash. But they don't know where the deep ones are, the ones that will either invoke change or destroy the marriage.

I don't see that. What I do see is that you can only change yourself and your reaction to boundaries. You set those boundaries up, see how your spouse reacts, then figure out what is acceptable. Sometimes that results in a change by your spouse, but sometimes it does not. With that information, you can then decide what to do.

zzzmelzzz

I have recently been reading posts from other wives experiencing the same thing and figured it is about time I share my story……

I will start from when I first noticed a problem, I hope to get good honest advise…even if it’s not something I want to hear!

Let me start by saying I met my common-law husband 11 years ago, when I was 18 years old and he was 23 years old. (We are 5 years apart) We dated for 5 years before purchasing a home together.



If someone had told me 10 years ago that at the ripe age of 29 years old, I would be in a sexless relationship; I would have told the person they were crazy! - Husbands want sex ALL the time……….. Don’t they???

I guess I was crazy to think everything would stay the same after we moved in together and had our son. I cannot pin point what happen and what I possibly did to contribute to this sexless union! But I am sure that we are both equally to blame. I noticed a drop in our sex-life in March 2007, approximately 1 year after moving in together. It started from 4-5 times a week to once a week. It was not a gradual decrease, but instead pretty sudden. I noticed my hubby was spending a lot more time on the computer. He would mostly go on the net while I was still at work; essentially only when he was home alone. As I would walk in the door from work he would be shutting down the computer. This behavior carried on for a few weeks, I decided to play ‘private investigator” and check the history on the computer. I was shocked to find all kinds of pornography! I decided to leave it alone for the moment I did not want to bring up the issue and embarrass him. It quickly turned into what seemed to be an addition. He would watch porn daily; He would even wake up at 6AM on the weekend to go watch porn. (This used to be when we would have sex, Saturday/Sunday Morning) Why would he make such an effort to wake up early and sneak down to the basement to watch porn at 6am, when I was in bed willing and able?



After about 2 months of porn surfing, I guess he got bored with it and decided to up the ante. He starting going on social network sites and re-connecting with his ex-girlfriends. He would tell them how beautiful they were and even ask for their numbers to make plans to “meet up for a coffee”. I also found profiles on dating websites like Match.com® | The Leading Online Dating Site for Singles & Personals where he was looking to meet women for “fun”. I remember reading his profile quote “I love you long time” and feeling so sick to my stomach! I knew this was his profile, how many men live in our town with the same name and postal code!!

All the while I just sat back, waiting and watching in devastation.



It then started to get worse, I would come home from work and he wasn’t home. I would call his cell and he would not answer! He would then show up at home later on. But by this time I had already gone on the computer and read that he had made plans to meet up with his Ex. If it was JUST a COFFEE, why hide it from me? Why tell me that you met up with your male friends. ……You only lie if you have something to hide……Am I right?



I started checking his cell phone records and matching the bill with the numbers multiple ex-girlfriends had given him to “make plans”. He was calling them while I was at work!! At that point I feel he was “attempting to cheat”.



Let me also mention that through the years my sexual desires for him have not diminished! In fact I think they may have increased because I wasn’t getting ANY intimacy.

Along with sex decreasing, he also stopped holding my hand, kissing, hugging and even communicating with me.



On one Friday night he had made plans to meet up with an EX –girlfriend. Because I had been reading his messages, I was aware of his plans. I actually made something up that night to prevent him from going, he was so mad!!!

Later that EX, sent him a nasty message because he stood her up!



When I finally worked up the courage to ask him in June 2007, he denied everything! I had to confess that I had been tracking him on the computer and phone records. He quickly turned it around on me and put all the blame on me for snooping around!



He seemed to feel bad for hurting me and I had thought that from that point things would get better. Things did improve; he got better at hiding it!!!!!!!

This battle went on for months and months and months, and my self esteem and self worth diminished!

This carried on from 2007 all the way to January 2009 – I was pregnant with our son from April 2008 – Feb 2009.



We had a big blow out in Jan 2009(the night before my baby shower) he left and met up with a girl. I knew again because I was still checking his emails. I called him and yelled at him on the phone, and he hang up on me. I found MSN conversations that night, where he told this woman that he was not excited to have a baby and that he thought of leaving me all the time! I was devastated sitting in front of this computer reading these horrible things. Why would he tell HER and NOT TELL ME. There was nothing she could do about his problems, why not talk to me – The ONE person that could try to make changes. He didn’t even give me a chance!



So, here I was 8 months pregnant and about to have a baby with a complete dough bag that should have been home with his pregnant WIFE!!!! – Now my mind shifted from him trying to cheat on me to him betraying our Family!



That night I decided to write him a letter, because he would NEVER listen when I would try to talk to him. The letter was about 10 pages long. I poured my heart out, hoping it would make him realize what he was doing and how much he was hurting me. After writing the letter I left the house, so that I would not be there when he got home from his rendezvous. I have no idea what time he got home night, but I came back at around 2:00am. I found the letter shredded in the garbage can.

We never talked about it after that….



I had a baby boy on Feb of 2009 – Either I got distracted with the baby and no longer noticed or he really stopped in his tracks. Either way things seemed to improve. (Excluding the sex) The sex actually got even worse.



Today, we have sex approximately every 4-6 weeks! – Which at my age is a sexless marriage in my eyes….. We are having sex 8-12 times A YEAR! And the sex lasts a few minutes!! I am sorry but 15-20 minutes of sex per year is just NOT cutting it.



My son just recently turned 3 years old.



I do everything for my family, I consider myself to be a good wife and mother. I do all the cooking, cleaning, laundry, I make his lunch every day for work, food shopping etc.

In the 11 years we have been together I have not changed much in appearance either. And I desire sex and am willing to try anything!



The reason I am writing this entry is because the PORN has started again! And if the porn watching has started again, then what else will he start doing when he gets bored of the porn ….???

I cannot sit back and watch this happen again! I don’t think I will be able to bounce back a second time, besides now we have a child in the mix.



I want nothing more than for this relationship to work, I am willing to do anything in my power to safe my family and keep it together, however I refuse to be sloppy seconds to porn and other women.



Let me also add, in the past I have suggest counseling and he told me that I should go alone because I am the problem, not him.


Please help me!!!!

Sawney Beane

Recognising that people are risk averse means that you know that saying to them "Go ahead, what's the worst that can happen?" is waste of time. It means you realise you have to deal with the how and the why. The problem is they may very well truly understand the risks - that's why they're risk averse.

In risk assessment, there are two parts: what can happen, and the probability that it actually occurs. The combination of these gives you the "residual risk". If the potential result is truly awful, but the probability is very low, most people think it's a justified risk. As the probability of something bad happening goes up, the attractiveness of the deal diminishes.

It may be that people are overthinking not only the severity of the potential consequences, but their probability too. Then again, they may not. Knowing that someone is risk-averse is the first step to finding out why and suggesting a course. And it might be that once you are in possession of all the facts you too will say "No, I wouldn't do that either..."



In the past you asked you wife about oral sex, doggy style, roleplay, w.h.y. You were polite, non-threatening and suitably assertive. She blew up, threw a fit, went apesh!t each and every time. Accused you of being perverted etc.

You know that sex is a major fault line. For the sexual issues substitute investing in a new company, changing your job, moving house or whatever.

People quite often do know.

Whilst they don't do it in any formal way, they then do a cost / benefit analysis. They know what the potential benefit is, and they know the cost. They also have a reasonably shrewd idea of what the probability of achieving the benefit versus incurring the cost is. If the probability of achieving the benefit is vanishingly small and the changes of incurring the cost are a practical certainty, they won't do it. Why would they?

Exactly. But at the end of the day, you're gambling on them reacting positively. Otherwise, why bother?

__________________
Can you rokker Romani chib, pal?
Aye, aye, brother!
What's Weshenjuggalslomomengreskeytemskeytudlogueri?
I don't know what you say, brother.
Then you don't jin Romani chib...

confusedinlife

"Because many many men on their dealth bed will look back and wished
they would have done something about a wife that can but won't in a Sexless marriage."

I would hope that I and many others would have other thoughts on their deathbed other than we did not get enough sex....if that is what you are thinking about when you are dying, you have lost the true meaning of love and of life in general.

Sawney Beane

Short answer? Her giving a sh!t.

But all the boundaries you set, the cooling off you do, the manning up you undertake and no matter how many times you gyrate through 180 degrees, it won't make someone give a sh!t who isn't actually interested or doesn't see why they should be or have any need to.

__________________
Can you rokker Romani chib, pal?
Aye, aye, brother!
What's Weshenjuggalslomomengreskeytemskeytudlogueri?
I don't know what you say, brother.
Then you don't jin Romani chib...

Tall Average Guy

Of course. That is the nature of the gamble.

As I have thought it over last night, I realize my real issue with your post here is that it seems to advocate not doing anything, because either the spouse will reject the person again, or the spouse will react poorly. It seems to be a perscription to sit and take it because something painful might happen. Perhaps not your intent, but certainly how it reads. I guess that works for some, but life is not that way. Rewards don't come without risk. There are very few sure things or free lunches.

Finally, you only get one life - there are no do-overs or rewinds - and being afraid all the time is a waste.

Tall Average Guy

So sit and do nothing? Just take it because you have to? Maybe that works for you, but I will never recommend that.

confusedinlife

I think he has done something and is doing something but it is not working.....I understand his point....

Sawney Beane

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I'm very lucky in that I'm not on sh!t street like lots of the posters here are. However, I have a lot of friends and acquaintances who are, and I try to offer them help. I also try to share with people what does and doesn't work for them.

I wouldn't suggest doing nothing. On the other hand, I wouldn't suggest doing something you are 99.9% sure is going to fail miserably either, just because doing something is better than doing nothing.

The problem a lot of these men get to is that NOTHING they try has ever worked, they've run out of things to do and ANYTHING looks like a good way of getting shot down.

Crazy one in a million acts work well in films and books where reality is suspended and the character has no investment beyond the end of the scene. In real life, they don't. Unless there's some realistic probability of achieving a useful end, it's not merely a risk, it's a bad risk.

I know people say if you get beaten 99 times, go back in the ring and have another go. But the chances are if you do, you're going to get beaten the 100th, 101st, 102nd and every other time too, like you were the first 99 times.

You're right that there are no free lunches, but you have to balance the risk for the value of the lunch. No sandwich is worth a good kicking, and if it's a game you know you can't win, playing just makes you a bigger mug.

And remember, the only people who consistently do well from gambling are bookmakers. Punters dont

__________________
Can you rokker Romani chib, pal?
Aye, aye, brother!
What's Weshenjuggalslomomengreskeytemskeytudlogueri?
I don't know what you say, brother.
Then you don't jin Romani chib...

Tall Average Guy

But the vast majority of the advice given here (and which you imply should not be bothered with) is not one-in-a-million odds, or lottery style. These are ideas that have a reasonable chance of working and that also help the individual gain strength to decide what to do.

Then change the game. Change it to looking out for yourself rather than begging and whining and feeling pity. Sure, the sex may not change, but that is no reason to sit there feeling sorry for yourself and how things are terrible. Working on yourself may not improve the marriage or the sex life, but it will improve yourself and how you feel. Arguing not to try it because it does not always work is a defeatist agenda.

confusedinlife

well said...

Sawney Beane

My view is not that there is no point in the stuff that is suggested here. Quite the opposite. But rather, this:

You say "change the game". What I see in a lot of the advice is that it doesn't change the game. It give advice on how to play the same game a bit differently. Like: "Getting knocked about in the ring? Try this one-two combination". Or, it says leave and stop playing the game altogether.

It appears to me that the advice would be like saying to someone who is always beaten by a boxer to either try out-boxing them, or give up, hang up your gloves and play tiddlywinks.

If you know the metaphorical boxer is faster, stronger, more skilled and has a longer reach than you, no new approach is going to let you out-box them. But the alternatives shouldn't be to try a new punch combination and hope to get lucky after consistently being beaten, or leave and declare yourself beaten. It has to be more like waiting for him outside the ring and hitting him over the back of the head with a shovel.

I think to a lot of men, the man up, thermostat and 180 are like giving boxing tips to someone who is taking on Ali in his heyday.

Just an opinion

__________________
Can you rokker Romani chib, pal?
Aye, aye, brother!
What's Weshenjuggalslomomengreskeytemskeytudlogueri?
I don't know what you say, brother.
Then you don't jin Romani chib...

Tall Average Guy

That advice, when taken as intended, is not really about getting more sex. When people apply in that way, then you are correct in your analogy. When people apply it correctly, it becomes playing chess against Ali. You still may lose, but it does not hurt nearly as bad.

Sawney Beane

I see what you're saying, and I can see how this works, but I still think what people need is a way of beating Ali in a fight, knowing full well that trying to out-box him is not the way.

__________________
Can you rokker Romani chib, pal?
Aye, aye, brother!
What's Weshenjuggalslomomengreskeytemskeytudlogueri?
I don't know what you say, brother.
Then you don't jin Romani chib...

Tall Average Guy

I am not convinced that would do much good. You will tend to lose, because the spouse is better at that game - they are battle hardened and know how it is played, whether through resentment, lack of attraction and desire, exhaustion, you name it. Most people do not have the patience and dedication to try and catch up in a race where they are already miles behind.

So that is why I think you need to try and change the game. Get them to play a game where you are both starting out about even and can learn it together. Again, there is no guarantee that you spouse will agree to play, but I think you stand a better chance of success, or at least of lessening the pain.

Having said all of that, if someone could give the lessons to allow you to beat Ali, then I want them to next work on curing cancer.