veryconfusedhusband

Oh that is a no no I can't say lets just do it tomorrow night because to her that is to much pressure as maybe she will not want to the next night either. That is why it is so tough and why I was like really again? last night because this pattern of rejection is so old.

Yes I thought we had made progress but I was so annoyed. It is like she needs every single emotional need met before she can consider my needs. It seems MC is to convince me of her needs or something cause unless something happens to me I am always going to desire sex more than a few times per month. And I am absolutely sick of it always being on her terms.

I am a good man, a good father, good job, and more than decent locking. I told her last night if she does not want me she needs to let me go. Did i pack my bags no...I love her and she loves me and I know there is nobody else she is interested in.

I love her but my resentment is building. I want to wake up with my kids every morning I do not want to separate but she is so block headed -- I keep telling her this is just not fair or normal and she insists well I don't care about other people.

I just don't know how to act. Do I go on and try to enjoy my life? She says it seems you are always gone and busy -- duh I am tired of being sucked into your web. She says if we had a closer emotional connection this area of our lives would be easier. I point out it has never ever worked out that way and the more I try to meet these needs of hers the more disappointed I become when she does not meet mine.

I feel stuck in not wanting to go to MC with her. For what? to be tested between each appt? This is pretty simple to me. I wish I never met her....sucks to even think that but I do now. How can you say that about someone you really love? I guess it is because I don't like her anymore. I find myself muttering obscenities under my breath ---- I have never ever called her a name before and don't intend to start but man I am running out of rope.

MEM11363

That isnt quite right confused. Even if you had invited her shopping she would have said no. When you did 3 months of that nothing changes.
That is simply her excuse - her way of saying it is your fault as well.

She likely either dislikes sex or isn't that attracted to you.

I think she is afraid to tell you the truth, doesn't want you angry or leaving. So she says it's partly yor fault to give you hope that if you just found a way to be perfect bit would all work out well in bed.

That said - no woman is going to felons well to a man saying "but I just want you so much, right after she rejects him. It is begging and pitiful. And a giant turn off.

You show some frightening amount of weakness to her.




TE=veryconfusedhusband;653358]Oh that is a no no I can't say lets just do it tomorrow night because to her that is to much pressure as maybe she will not want to the next night either. That is why it is so tough and why I was like really again? last night because this pattern of rejection is so old.

Yes I thought we had made progress but I was so annoyed. It is like she needs every single emotional need met before she can consider my needs. It seems MC is to convince me of her needs or something cause unless something happens to me I am always going to desire sex more than a few times per month. And I am absolutely sick of it always being on her terms.

I am a good man, a good father, good job, and more than decent locking. I told her last night if she does not want me she needs to let me go. Did i pack my bags no...I love her and she loves me and I know there is nobody else she is interested in.

I love her but my resentment is building. I want to wake up with my kids every morning I do not want to separate but she is so block headed -- I keep telling her this is just not fair or normal and she insists well I don't care about other people.

I just don't know how to act. Do I go on and try to enjoy my life? She says it seems you are always gone and busy -- duh I am tired of being sucked into your web. She says if we had a closer emotional connection this area of our lives would be easier. I point out it has never ever worked out that way and the more I try to meet these needs of hers the more disappointed I become when she does not meet mine.

I feel stuck in not wanting to go to MC with her. For what? to be tested between each appt? This is pretty simple to me. I wish I never met her....sucks to even think that but I do now. How can you say that about someone you really love? I guess it is because I don't like her anymore. I find myself muttering obscenities under my breath ---- I have never ever called her a name before and don't intend to start but man I am running out of rope.[/QUOTE]
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veryconfusedhusband

Yes I am weak for my love of her. I actually believe she is weak to me as well and this is why she does this to me she fears failure and abandonment. I want the home run and believe if I leave I will be batting singles the rest of my life - she will crack and then be so angry if I leave her and our two small children. Our marriage will not be able to recover.
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PHTlump

She fears you will leave her, so she refuses to meet your needs? That makes no sense.

You have Stockholm syndrome. Your wife has mistreated you for so long that you assume she must have a good reason. It can't be because she doesn't care about you. It must be that she cares too much, right? Get real.

If you leave, your marriage may end. That is true.

However, there is a third option, besides leaving and the status quo. You can consistently follow the advice of the people on this board. Stop listening to her words. She is a liar. Pay attention to her actions.

You turned down the thermostat for a few days and she turned up the sex. At the same time, she told you that she didn't like you turning down the thermostat. So, her words tell you that she isn't attracted to you, but her actions say that she is. And you're such a dope that you disregard her actions and listen to her words.

And to make matters worse, you start whining about it. That sets you right back to square one.

You're a parent, so I'll phrase this in terms you can easily understand. Wives are like children. They will test you and the way to pass their tests is to be consistent with them. If you tell your kids that they're not allowed to eat cookies before dinner, and then you never punish them, you can bet that they will always eat cookies before dinner. Test failed. If you punish them only occasionally, they will usually eat cookies before dinner. Test failed. If you punish them every time, most children will eventually stop eating cookies before dinner. Test passed.

Right now, you're transitioning from the never punish your wife phase to the occasionally punishing your wife. You need to keep improving. Don't go from usually whining to sometimes whining. Go all the way to never whining. That's what your wife wants.

Good luck.

veryconfusedhusband

I do enjoy coming here but it is impossible to really understand someones situation. So she turned up sex -- no she followed normal pattern of sex on Saturday night only. It would have been turned up if the last failed effort had worked out.

I believe she is so worried about us failing she is afraid that we are not doing everything to save our marriage. For her this is reading tons of marriage books and returning to MC.

Yes I do feel like this marriage is totally unfair but she fails to get it. Yes it would have been better the other night to just blow it off and it did set me back but hey I am not a robot. The whole 180 thing seems to be only partially effective with her. If she does not feel me close to her she feels abandoned I think there is a larger issue of her father basically taking off from the family when she was young. So she constantly prepares herself for that disappointment --- she has never forgiven him. Feels like she has lumped me in with him.

She resents that she loves me. She resents that I can let her down. Yeah its messed up but this is what I am dealing with. Time will tell. Real time. Not the time separated by a few posts on here which give the impression of time.

FormerNiceGuy

You are on the right path. Keep working on yourself.

Go buy No More Mr. Nice Guy and read it. This sounds like a salvageable situation, but you need to quit with the pestering, whiny "I want sex" thing.

Why do you allow your wife to set the emotional tone? If you are in a good mood, be in a good mood. If she isn't, who cares? Not your problem to fix so get away. Go do something else, like exercise, hobby, whatever. You are like a little dog wandering lost around the table, waiting for a scrap of love or affection or even better, sex!

I have been there - doesn't work!

Look what happens when you put your needs first - wife responds positively. Action, reaction. Learn, adjust. Don't go back to old behavior.

Enchantment

Hi veryconfused ~

Frankling Roosevelt said "When you come to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."

So, tie your knot and keep plodding forward.

Yes, your wife will test your mettle as a man. She will want to see what kind of stuff you are made of.

What is your concern about returning to MC? She may see that as obstructionist and coupled with you pulling back and being more aloof, maybe she is getting mixed messages - you want a better marriage and more intimacy, but you don't act like it. Maybe your words and actions are not aligning.

I do know that you will have to 'stand tall' when she tests you like she has been, so I agree with what MEM and PHT and FNG have said.

Hang in there, veryconfused. I'm rooting for you.

Best wishes.

__________________

Enter these enchanted woods, You who dare. ~ George Meredith

PHTlump

I misunderstood your post. By you stating that it had been three nights, I thought you had sex the past three nights.

I get that your wife doesn't want sex. And I understand that it's hard to get around it. It may be impossible. But you have to change strategies.

There are three scenarios that I can think of that will lead to more sex and a happier relationship for you.

The first is that you understand what your wife wants you to do, you just haven't been able to do enough of it. So, you increase your efforts and finally get over the very high hurdle she has set. And she finally feels that you have passed her test and rewards you with sex. I don't think this scenario is very likely.

The second scenario is that you keep doing what you've been doing and your wife finally reads some book or talks to a counselor, or you, and it dawns on her that you need sex to be happy. So, she finally gets it and give you sex. I don't think this scenario is likely, either.

The third scenario is that your wife has told you what she wants, but she's either lying, or she doesn't understand what she wants. So you're doing what she says she wants, but she's not satisfied. So, you change your strategy and start doing things differently. Your wife is pleased by this in ways she doesn't even understand. And she gives you sex because she's happier with you. I think this is the most likely scenario.

Now, it's possible that none of these scenarios will work. Your wife may be so closed off that she would rather drive you away than be hurt when you leave her. That's crazy, but people do it all the time. But, it seems to me that you've tried scenarios 1 and 2 with no success. So I think you need to switch things up and go with number 3. Stop giving your wife so much power over you. It may, or may not work. But I've only seen two cases of women on these boards just spontaneously "getting it" and providing more sex to their husbands who were content to just sit around and wait. All the other success stories are comprised of HD spouses changing their approach to their LD spouse, and the LD spouse responding positively.

Good luck.

veryconfusedhusband

First off I will never meet all of her emotional needs. She points out little things like a single comment or tone which seems to set back the whole day for her. I cannot be perfect she wants to train me and it ain't happening. Her overall points are valid and I have totally let go of some past issues - like I cone home after work he house would be a total mess she would have no idea what was for dinner and I used to get so annoyed that she would spend hours on little projects but not taking care of basics first. Now I just ignore it in fact it does not even bother me even though I will never understand how she thinks it it ok. That was two years ago. I told her I would return to MC but let her know I am concerned that this will be the disaster for me as it was last time with me making the effort and her just waiting forever for her to make a move. Plus I have addressed most of her earlier concerns. But she does not see that she wants a robot that is predictable. I think she fears uncertainty and loss of control more than anything else. I think MEM has made great comments but I do bristle when I hear his description of his marriage it sounds disconnected to me. But I bet I am just taking that out if context this board is helpful but sometimes illusory.
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Tall Average Guy

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think you missed a golden opportunity to turn this on her. When she asked this question, the response should have been "I did not ask you because I feel like you don't want me around or smoothering you. Because of that, I am giving you space to make you happy. Isn't that what you want?" Then keep coming back to this until you get some real answers. If she tries to move to a different topic (which is almost a certainty, get her right back to this) and hang on like a dog fighting for a bone.

Tall Average Guy

She wants a robot she can control. You have likely let her do that for too long. She gets to be imperfect, yet is given free reign to point out your littlest flaw and dwell on them for as long as she needs. She has elevated her feelings and needs above all else, while ignoring yours. Read though some of MEM's posts, including those dealing with apologizing and the thermostat. You will get great advice for what is a very tough problem for you.

Blue Moon

Excellent f*cking post

Mestupxtian

It sounds like you two are completely disconnected. She seems to be nitpicking and you are tuning her out. When you do, she plays mrs. nice wife and you return and the cycle starts all over again. This is a very destructive way to live a marriage. I don't recommend leaving your spouse, physically or emotionally. Those that say that you should "do your own thing" or "just make yourself happy" totally miss the point of a marriage - oneness and mutual happiness.

Here's my suggestions and I am not a therapist or a counselor, so take it as advice from someone who has been happily married for 7+ years. Get her buy-in on the relationship. Tell her something like "I want this to work out and I want both of us to be happy, but I just feel there is something between us" or something like that. Once she says she wants things to work out, suggest a retreat together. I would get away, just the two of you - no life, no kids, no jobs - for at least a weekend if not a week (if you can manage it). I would plan a retreat that doesn't involve activities. Spend the time talking things out. This will be much easier if you get away to a marriage conference-type weekend.

My wife and I really like the Family Life "Weekend to Remember" conferences. They are about 1.5 days of discussion about common problems in marriages and would hit all the areas that you are indicating are problems in your marriage (conflict resolution, communication, sex and intimacy, etc.). Do this together so you can both point out things that you feel are inadequate from the other partner (and be open to what she has to say). Being a psychologist, she will probably soak it up. Google it, or another conference, and find one that is far enough away to make it a get away, but soon enough that you can strike while the iron is hot.

You stated that she doesn't have many female friends to talk to. Women need other women to talke to that can encourage them in a way that we men just can't. If you are part of a local church, see if there are any couples or marrieds groups that meet. If you aren't part of a church and are comfortable with it, you may try and find a local church to go to (I promise, they don't bite). If church or religion isn't your thing, find an organization that you both agree on that you can get involved with together and where you can meet other adults. You want her to meet other women who will be a positive influence on her, which is why I bring up churches first. Though you can find some bad apples in every bunch, churches are less likely to have a whole lot of the "Elizabeth Taylors" of the marriage world.

Lastly, find a new MC. Tell her that you don't feel like you are getting anywhere with the one that you are with now and you would like a fresh face and new ideas for how to work things out. Find one that will hold you BOTH accountable for making the marriage work. If you can see an issue with your wife's committment to the MC's plan and your MC can't, then it is time for someone new.

veryconfusedhusband

Thank you all for the feedback. We have had some good discussions and offered again to go to a new MC. She is stuck on this concept of our problems in the bedroom are related to her lack of attraction due to past behaviors. She sees that in the past few years I have made major improvements but states that because of this history it is hard to overlook a comment now even if accidental or misunderstood. I am trying to convey some understanding yet pointing out that she too can be critical and difficult at times and that I will never be perfect. I also have explained that during those years our lack of a sexual connection is in some ways responsible as I need that part. The funny thing is the next day I pointed out to her that one of the cupboards came off the hinges again and was stuck. She knows this is nobodys fault but she still gave me a bad look and shook her head. Haha I got my example so easily and of course I let her know. "hey that is the kind of stuff you get so angry when I do it". She smiled. Later that day she came up out of nowhere and gave me a nice kiss and that night we had sex. No asking no talking about it and it was good. But it was Saturday night so this that has not changed. Enchantment I like your quote and no I will not let go. Life is getting better and I can't expect her to change overnight. I am still certain that standing up and saying no to MC was the best move I made. Yes I am agreeing to go back but you see she has not said a word since it is just a test I think and if she sets it up I will go but I am not playing the go slow while on therapy thing ever again.
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MEM11363

VCH,
Your perception is getting better and better. You are refusing to allow extremely one sided exchanges. You are also refusing to let her play "hunt the Unicorn".

Since the Unicorn doesn't exist, you can waste your entire life looking for him. Your W claims that you must create the mythical perfect environment for her if you want sex more than 3 times a month. As you have realized that will never happen. Even if you agreed with everything she said, she would see you as a doormat, be repulsed and want even less sex with you.