Sex in MarriageSexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.
I've been reading posts on this forum for a few months now and both my wife and I have been helped by what we've read here, if for no other reason than to know we aren't alone in our struggles.
My wife and I will celebrate our 15th anniversary this May, and we have four wonderful children. Outside of the bedroom our marriage really has, and continues to be, a wonderful one. We adore and love each other, my wife and I love spending time together and we laugh a lot. We find it easy to talk about anything and everything, and it's rare that we don't manage to spend at least 30 minutes every day talking about things other than family logistics. Both of us realize we have personal faults but we love each other despite our individual shortcomings (although we both strive to improve). Divorce is not an option for us, not only would it be hurtful to each other and our kids, but since we are both devoted Christians... well it's just not an option.
Inside the bedroom it's another matter. Prior to marriage we weren't sexually active together, in fact we never saw each other completely naked until our honeymoon. She was a virgin and while I wasn't, we both wanted to keep sex out of our dating life. We were affectionate and still are to this day (meaning we kiss/hug many times a day).
Right from the start though we had sexual problems in our marriage, and looking back on it I wish we would have been more proactive about seeking professional help, but there's no changing the past. We didn't have sex during our honeymoon, in fact during the first year of marriage we had sex only a few times. Initially the issue was that sex was incredibly painful for my wife. I was patient though and we eventually worked through it. On our first year anniversary she got pregnant which was surprising given the few times we had successfully had any sex at all (perhaps as few as 5 times by this point in our marriage). After our first child, sex was easier.
Fast forwarding to now, sex is often times still painful for her. She describes it as either being painful friction, as if her clitoris has been over stimulated, or just general rawness. Sex often times leaves discomfort or pain that typically lasts for hours (at times has lasted a day or more). We have since had her checked out by a couple of doctors and both have tested for any abnormalities and hormonal issues (none of which have been found). We tried giving her testosterone supplements for her, but they did nothing. We have also tried a prescribed estrogen cream which does help her overall natural lubrication and keeps her more supple (net result is that it does help considerably but doesn't keep sex from being painful). At times though sex hasn't been painful, but even in the absence of pain sex is in general something my wife doesn't desire. I would describe her attitude towards sex as this: she would often times rather do anything else (and I mean anything short of a root canal) than be sexually active with me.
Foreplay tends to last 5-20 minutes, and we both enjoy it (I'll admit that I absolutely love pleasing her). Oral sex is common (on one or both of us). Lubricants help to an extent but they also create other problems, primarily that I don't get off (more on that later). Additionally once she has had 1-3 orgasms sex will quickly become painful to the point where it has to end. More often than not I will have to masturbate to be satisfied after sex is finished.
This leaves us feeling like we are sexually completely incompatible:
I'm HD (prefer to make love 2-3 times a day... at times more or less, but I'm patient and never insist on it).
My wife is LD (an honest assessment is that she would prefer to make love 6-12 times a year).
Over the years we have gone months without any sexual activity at all (I would throw myself into something else to keep my mind occupied, primarily online games like WoW and would self-satisfy). Sometimes after months of no sexual activity she would show an interest, but even then could best be described by saying she wouldn't mind making love to me and would kind of like it.
Another issue is longevity during sex. She typically has 1-3 orgasms within 3-5 minutes of actual sex (excluding time spent on foreplay).
It is incredibly rare for me to be pleased in under 5 minutes (even when we have experimented with trying to only please me and see how that would play out). Typically it takes 10-60 minutes for me to reach climax. Use of lubricants can at times make it impossible for me to climax (meaning that after an hour of active sexual relations I don't feel that I'm at all close to climax). Even when I self satisfy it takes a while to climax. There have also been times where I've abstained from masturbation (as well as sex), as an experiment, for months at a time and while I will tends to help me climax faster it's not much of a difference (certainly not worth the frustration of abstaining for that long).
Currently we compromise and I'd say we have sexual relations on average about 4-5 times a month. At times we've done more than that, and at times we've had stretches of zero activity. One issue though is that I don't feel that often times she really wants to, while I appreciate that she is gracious enough to try for my sake and I let her know that. I feel that overall I'm just not wanted at all sexually (except for a few times a year).
There has been zero infidelity for either of us during the coarse of our marriage, not even an "emotional affair".
We are about to start seeing a sex therapist about our issues, but after we talked about it we both decided to put down on "paper" what we see the problems are. I also sought her approval before posting anything here (in fact she read what I wrote prior to my posting anything).
We are looking for any advice or help anyone can offer though, because while I've tried to be patient, I'm afraid that even I'm reaching a point where I'm struggling with frustration and anger (though not directed at her) over these issues... Normally we don't argue at all, and this issue has been our primary point of contention, especially the past few years.
First off i jut want to comment how great it is that your wife is so involved and working with you on the situation, it appears she is interested in trying to improve things and that alone can make a huge difference. That alone make divorce or anything along those lines unnecessary.
Im no expert but what i can say is dont stop trying, the worst thing you can do is to ignore the situation, it wont go away on its on and will only cause one or both of you to become bitter and resentful. Certainly give the therapist a try, they can work wonders if both individuals are willing to work at the problem. Also, typically the more you talk about and have sex the more you will desire it, become used to it and the less it should hurt. Try different doctors, i know first hand that not all Drs know what they are talking about and often misdiagnose people.
its also important to be realistic, if one desires it once a month and the other desires it once a day, a realistic compromise might be 1-2 times a week. While this may not seem like much to you it is WAY more than enough for her so try and see things from her point of view as well. Remember that intimacy includes more than just sex, there are many other things you can do in that category. Maybe im just weird but i personally can get near as much enjoyment out of a amazing backrub as i can having sex, and after either i feel just as close with my wife, so think of other things she might be able to do to please you that she enjoys doing or atleast isnt as painful.
I am grateful that my wife is willing to work with me on the situation. We've already made some good strides on our own, but we are going to start therapy because we feel like we've hit a wall on our own.
I agree too toshiba that we can't stop trying, I know that my growing frustration/anger is brewing because I've let this go on so long. Fortunately we are addressing this before resentment has set in, I know this isn't something she's trying to do to hurt me. I know she loves me (in my mind), it's hard because in a way I feel unloved (in my heart). It's a hollow ache that eats away at me at times. :/
I'm all about compromise, and I know she will never be able to keep up with my drive. It's just not how she's wired. When it hurts her physically I understand, it's easier for me in a way. There are times though for stretches where it doesn't hurt and it's still pleasurable yet the desire still isn't there (sometimes for weeks/months at a time). In my mind I understand that's just how she is, but it still hurts emotionally (if that makes any sense).
I'll go along with Toshiba's sentiment. It sounds to me like you're doing everything you can, from the doctors to the sex therapist to writing down your grievances. You're communicating about the issue and, more importantly, you sound like you're listening to each other.
The one thing I would ask her to write down for you and the therapist is if the friction issue is the only thing preventing her from enjoying sex. If it is simply a physical issue, that's one thing. But if something else has happened to cause her to dislike sex, that's going to have to be approached from a different direction.
Yep, it seems we have twin relationships born at different times. Not that it's a nice situation to be in, it's nice to know there's someone to relate. I wish you two the best in working this through.
Browncoat.... Mrs. Browncoat.... You guys are one incredible couple!!! It's great that you guys can really (and truly) be so honest with one another. Not to mention the fact that you're both willing to work towards making this marriage work.
So, I want to see if I've got this straight. Your problem Browncoat is that you want sex often, but obviously it's uncomfortable for your wife. You want her to enjoy it, and while she is physically able to orgasm during sex it's rather quickly and faster than you can reach climax. Correct? If you don't mind my getting a bit more personal, I'd love to get some more info to maybe offer some help... if I possibly can. But no matter what, I think a sex therapist is a WONDERFUL idea for you guys! (You can PM me the answers if they get too personal and you'd rather not answer publicly.)
You mention your wife gets uncomfortable during sex due to too much friction overall, is it from lack of lubrication during the act, or from over stimulation of the clit specifically? Sounded like it might be all 3.
Is this feeling throughout intercourse, or just in the beginning? And what is the longest you guys have lasted? What positions have you tried?
How open are you and your wife to bringing toys into the bedroom... for you, Browncoat? One idea to help with the time difference, allowing you to enjoy your intimate time together. A fleshlight would be a fun option, allowing her the fun of pleasing you, and allowing you the chance to catch up to your wife prior to sex.
Does your wife masturbate? Had she experienced anything sexual (besides sex itself since she was a virgin) prior to marriage?
I think a ST would be a wonderful resource for helping you guys through this! The fact that you're both ready, willing, and able to do so means you're already one big step in the right direction!
Thanks ValNTine, despite our problems I really do feel blessed to be with my wife and to still be in love after ~15 years. I've always appreciated that I could be frank with my wife (and she with me).
Sorry for the longevity of this post, but answering all your questions (hopefully I got them all) took a while.
I want sex far more often than my wife. If I could wave a magic wand, my wife and I would ML 1-3x a day. I strongly suspect my libido is a lot higher than most guys my age (almost 40), but I've been that way since a teenager. I'm definitely content with having sex 2-4x a week, and these days we either achieve that or come close.
Our biggest problems these days come from differences in desire, passion, and stamina. We also have issues, as you already know, with pain during sex for my wife.
The pain is mostly caused by clitoral overstimulation during sex (after she is done having orgasms). It's that overstimulation that typically marks the swift end of intercourse. Typically when this occurs I've not climaxed and she'll stay with me and try to help me. This is the only time these days she masturbates, because she can often times draw another orgasm from pressure (w/o clitoral stimulation). She primarily does this to keep herself in the moment which helps me (and frankly I enjoy watching her be pleased). We've started using a silicone based lubricant which seems to help some with this pain (more on that later).
Another type of pain she gets is a general rawness (not clitoral) that can start during the middle of sex or appear after sex. This can last anywhere from an hour to a day or more. When raw, even penetration can be painful to the point where it's basically impossible. I can feel when she is raw during penetration, it feels to me like she's exceptionally warm at the vaginal opening and sometimes further in the vagina itself. This typically ends sex before it starts or during sex if it flares up during. At times it seems that lubrication helps, but it's far from being truly preventative.
She can feel like to both of us that she's properly lubricated and yet the pain can flare up. Sometimes it can start before she's had an orgasm but typically then she endures it because she wants to climax and the pleasure outweighs the pain. I don't know when the pain flares up until after sex is complete or if she tells me. If it flares up before she climaxes she typically doesn't say a thing.
I believe the longest we've had intercourse is perhaps 15-20 minutes. Typically once she's achieved her 1-3 orgasms, even if the pain isn't there she kind of turns into what I describe to her as an anatomically correct rag doll. That is she's not in the moment at all, her mind immediately goes anywhere and everywhere despite her best efforts to try and stay in the moment.
We typically use two positions (missionary and her on top... guess it's called asian cowgirl?), which is a mild disappointment for me, but frankly if we used only two the rest of our lives and our other issues were gone I'd be delighted! Her legs pretty much need to stay on the bed (aligned with her body). When we raise her legs too much during sex she gets very uncomfortable, not because of flexibility but because she gets the feeling that her organs are being pushed around. We get the same results whenever we try an position from behind (doggy) or on the side.
We saw a ST for the first time last week, and that went well. Mostly we just went over background, but she did leave us with one good bit of advice which was to try using silicone based lubrication. We've always used water-soluble before which we found wasn't worth the effort (in fact at times it seemed to make things worse for us). Time will tell if the silicone lubricant is something that will continue to work well for us only time will tell, but we are really happy with how things have improved so far. We plan to continue going to see the ST once a week in the immediate future. We also hope to touch on the issue of her lack of passion, as it's something I'd love to feel from her (more than perhaps 1-2 times in our 15 years of marriage).
We've never brought sex toys into the bedroom. Not because we are opposed to them per se, just have zero experience with them. LOL we had to look up what a fleshlight was, and once we did we had a lot of fun talking about it until she fell asleep. We have a similar sense of humor, so it was actually a really great time tonight just laughing... to the point where at times we were worried we'd wake up the kids. Though that's nothing new, we joke around and laugh a LOT. We are willing to try anything like that.
Typically during foreplay she'll give me a BJ, followed by me giving her oral sex (she's not a big fan of 69) while I keep myself excited. While I've given her an orgasm a few times with oral sex we tend to not let it get that far because it's overall counterproductive for us. She does enjoy it though, and it makes a huge difference in her being ready for penetration (we used to have a lot more problems with penetration prior to us trying it and making it a regular thing).
I've only had one other sexual partner in my life, a college girl friend I dated for 2-3 years (it ended about 2 years before I met my wife). We were sexually active through most of that time, and I've always taken a while to be pleased. There are times when I'll finish quickly (1-5 minutes), but typically that's rare. Also rare are times when I've tried for 20-60 minutes w/o success and gave up trying to climax. These days I've found if I don't climax in 30 minutes or so after sex has started it's just not likely to happen at all. This only tends to happen when my wife is finished and her not being in the moment makes it hard for me to finish.
Something I've not shared here before, only because I wanted to make sure my wife was OK with me sharing (even anonymously) was that she had some sexual abuse from ages ~6-12. No penetration, but she had her vaginal area touched infrequently by a family member. This caused her to get an early interest in masturbation, which was quickly snuffed out by her mother. We aren't sure if that has any bearing on her sex life with me now, because she has no qualms with being touched. That's something we are going to go over with the ST in the weeks to come.
I hope you'll keep us updated on your progress. It's often recommended that people go to a sex therapist, but we don't very often get to see a couple who does and how it goes.
Did your therapist say anything about coconut oil as a potential lube? Sounds like your wife has a lot of sensitivity in her genitals - she climaxes easily and quickly (can she please give me some of that - I am the opposite!).
So, I'll ask an impertinent question ... please don't take it the wrong way. Do you think your wife feels pressured or somehow inadequate that she may not measure up to the level of passion and function that you want? I mean, having a huge amount of passion and lust every single time you have sex (and especially if you often encounter pain with it) seems like an unrealistic expectation. Do you feel like you have realistic expectations (making love 3x a day while you have 4 children and a wife with pain problems doesn't seem realistic)?
And the last bit ... about potential abuse or shame ... most definitely can have an impact on a person's sexual life. The experiences we have as a child shape and mold us into the people that we are. It might be something to think about her exploring ... it may be <unconsciously> one of the things that holds her back from being as free as she could be.
I'd be happy to keep a more formal journal of what goes on in our ST sessions. Might be a good way for us to keep track of what's been going on, and if it can help others all the better.
Our ST didn't mention coconut oil, just recommended silicone lubricant which makes sense now that I've experienced it and learned a bit more about it. It tends to stay where you apply it. Apparently water soluble lubricants can wick into the vagina and away from where my wife most needs lubrication. We can certainly try coconut oil, I'll look into that (esp if it's cheaper since I can be a bit of a cheap skate at times).
As for expectations, while I'd love to have sex 1-3x a day I completely understand why it doesn't happen. I don't regret that we don't. I only mention that to express the difference in drives. Most of the time I just take care of myself w/o saying a thing. It's not that my wife doesn't know I was in the mood X times a day, she does. It's just that bringing it up all the time is caustic. I also am an affectionate guy, so I will often times give her random hugs and kisses. Sometimes I'll give her some passion in the kiss when I'm feelign it, but most of the time it's a gentle loving way to say... well I love you.
Over the years I've developed a sort of sex sense (lol think spidey-sense from spiderman), that based on how long since we last had sex, what time of day it is, what her mood is, etc. if it's worth while trying to initiate sex.
As for feeling pressured, I don't mind you asking at all. I just asked my wife about this before writing so I'd make sure I reflected her feelings.
She says that for the first 12 years or so of our marriage she didn't feel pressure. The first 12 years of our marriage we typically had sex 1-4x a month... with some stretches in there of no sex at all (a couple of times 6+ months of no sex at all). She says she didn't feel pressure back then, and I basically suffered in silence (mostly because of pain during sex I felt like it wasn't right for me to say anything).
About 3 years ago, she was showing signs of early menopause (doctor confirmed), and her libido dropped even further. This coupled with her having strange things happen with her cycle (like having 2-3 periods in a month, she doesn't like to have sex then). Some of her periods were dragging out for weeks. Also a sense of loss came over me, I always had this hope that she would experience that surge in sexual interest some women achieve in their late 30's early 40's. It didn't happen. So with that hope dissolved, lower libido (on top of an already low libido), frequent breaks in sex due to odd menstrual cycles, and just built up frustration I just couldn't take it anymore. I felt like I just couldn't suffer in silence anymore and all that disappointment from the first 12 years of our marriage just hit me like a ton of bricks and turned into resentment (really took me by surprise).
At first when the resentment started it took us both by surprise. At times I would find myself suddenly filled with so much anger over our sex life, it was a very strong emotion. Not that I ever became violent or aggressive with her (it's not my way... ever), nor mad at her... I was just so angry with the situation. At times now I still struggle with this, as much as I'd like to say I'm this perfect guy whenever I've gone 3-4+ days w/o sex the resentment turns to anger and rears it's ugly head. Sometimes my wife doesn't know about it, and I just try and work it out on my own when alone. Sometimes though it comes on strong when she's around and that's when she feels pressure. She says it's not direct pressure, not like I'm demanding anything (I don't). It's that she can tell how much it hurts me in a variety of ways (feeling unloved, undeserving of love, empty inside, etc.) that she feels indirect pressure to open herself up having sex more often with me. Which in a way feels bad for me too, because I don't want to make her feel any pressure to have sex... yet I feel starved for not getting it otherwise after 3-4 days.
Hopefully I didn't ramble too much, sorry again for how long the post is. Normally life at our house is really filled with laughter and joy... it's just at times this darkness comes when the resentment comes back. I hate that it's there and wish I could just put the resentment in a box and tuck it away... but I can't at times. This is one of the reasons we are starting therapy... we just can't live like this any longer and since divorce isn't an option, addressing it (no matter how hard) is the only way to go.
Thanks for sharing your story, Browncoat. I'm so glad that your wife has agreed to the sexual therapy. Between the childhood sexual abuse and the physical pain, I think that professional help is warranted.
I should mention too, that the frustration doesn't just come from the fact that I didn't "get any" the past 3-4 days.
It comes also in part because well over half the times my wife is done so far before me that I end up masturbating for well over half the sexual encounter... at times it feels like vaginally augmented masturbation. The sex just doesn't satisfy when it ends like this.
It comes because often times I can tell my wife's heart just isn't in it at all, no matter how much foreplay love and affection I shower on her. I appreciate that she tries, I think it's so very sweet of her... but there's that general feeling that she doesn't care. The worst part is that it's because she doesn't care about sex, though she does about me. She doesn't want sex, while she goes along with it... her heart is only in it about 4-6x/year. She achieves orgasms and is pleased by it, but she still just doesn't care.
It's because often times we get started, foreplay is fun and exciting and then we stop because it hurts during penetration.
It's all that and probably things that aren't coming to mind atm.
I know I shouldn't let it bother as much as it does... but it does and the feelings are strong (which is something I hope to address with the ST).
When your sex life is satisfying, you don't give it much thought. When it's not, it occupies 90% of your brain space.
Yeah and unfortunately for me it can often times let my thoughts drift to places I'd rather it didn't. Really don't like dwelling on regrets and resentment, and outside of this part of my life I generally don't.
It's funny too, because when we do have good sex now and then it really turns my disposition around so quickly. It's kind of embarrassing how much of 20 minutes can make to my attitude for the next several days.
Yeah and unfortunately for me it can often times let my thoughts drift to places I'd rather it didn't. Really don't like dwelling on regrets and resentment, and outside of this part of my life I generally don't.
It's funny too, because when we do have good sex now and then it really turns my disposition around so quickly. It's kind of embarrassing how much of 20 minutes can make to my attitude for the next several days.
My husband and I are the same way. Not embarassing at all. A good sex life helps bond us together and enables us to overlook faults, forget resentments, and keeps little annoyances in their place.
I'm wondering if your wife can hold off on having an orgasm so quickly...I wish I had that problem lol. Maybe if she could wait for you to catch up. IDK
My ex was like you, it could take a while, he was like that when he was 23, some guys are just like that. What I found interesting was that when we brought some fantasy play into the bedroom, he would climax in about 5 min. Can you guys read some erotica together?? you really have to find ways to make your sex life interesting when you've been together for a long time..
10Likes
Another case of HD/LD married couple 
You guys are one incredible couple!!! It's great that you guys can really (and truly) be so honest with one another. Not to mention the fact that you're both willing to work towards making this marriage work.
