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Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

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Old 04-17-2012, 06:50 PM   #181 (permalink)
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Default Re: People Obsessed with Sex on TAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Havesomethingtosay View Post

Go find posts by Posse whose wife denies him any sex, has laughed and told him to divorce her if he doesn't like it and he is waiting 4 years 'til his youngest is out of the house. Or Jeff who has been convinced by his wife that he doesn't need sex with her, and has bragged on TAM that that is the right decision. I don't get it, but some stand by their marriage.

Ughhh!!!!!!!
To be fair, she didn't laugh. She was more angry than sardonic.

Realize that I have shared a very thin slice of my relationship and the circumstances enveloping it.

The rest of the pie, which I have not shared here, has led me, through great deliberation with extensive personal, legal, and financial consulting, to pick the path I have chosen.

If the only decision-making matrix involved were sex or no sex, I would be so gone. I can understand if you do not understand my decision based on the limited information I have presented, but believe me when I say that there are other factors involved which strongly indicate towards the decision I have made.

I am the Pilot-in-Command of my personal aircraft, and make the decisions related to it. I have chosen a forced landing 4 years away that is more easily survivable for the many multiple occupants of my aircraft rather than a immediate nosedive right now.

I'm not standing by this relationship as it stands any longer than I need to.

I am standing by my marriage vows during that time, but my eyes are wide open.

CROSSTHREAD POINTS: The fact that my eyes are wide open are probably why I am noticing all the opportunities I would have to capitalize on if I were so inclined.

I used to be oblivious to them. Heck, I wasn't exposed to many of them. I was the guy who did the drop kids off at school-work-pick the kids up-stay at home in the evening shuffle. I was in the dumps emotionally, was letting myself go because there was outright hostility in my relationship and I was depressed about it because it had to be all my fault. My wife engaged in some over the top but not deal-breaker behaviors that got me on all the various marriage sites, got me into Stop walking on Eggshells, and Married Man Sex Life. Athol Kay is a very smart man who has connected a lot of dots in my opinion, as are a lot of other authors. After taking natural aggressive behavior to the threats I saw in my marriage, internal and external, and I had fortified the walls somewhat to stabilize things, I started studying up and learned what my various adversaries were and started preparing for them..

After reading a bunch, including MMSL, I realized that I needed to step up my game for me. My wife can come or go with the program as she sees fit, but I have to live with myself, and while I was a good guy overall, I saw areas for improvement when I took a frank look in the mirror. I have thought from the beginning of running the MAP that if my wife came along, that would be a bonus. So far that hasn't happened.

If she doesn't come on board it will be her loss, and it will be a huge loss, believe me.

Since I started running the MAP, I have lost 20 lbs of fat, regained 20 lbs of muscle I used to have in my youth, and am brimming over with confidence instead of being a whipped puppy dog. Athol even warns about what happens when you run the MAP in regards to female attention and how you need to be wary.

Kay warns that when you start running the MAP, that it is possible that lots of other women will notice the change in you and start hitting on you, It is so true in my case. I don't want to sound like an infomercial for MMSL, but he does give fair warning about what can happen when you run a MAP. I have so far found it to be eerily accurate. Like I said, it is painful to pass up opportunities when you are starved, but it is the right thing to do. It is nice for the ego and lets me know I am headed in the right direction, however.

In my life I have noticed what I call the "Unhappy Wife Vibe" from women who send signals when they are unhappy in their marriage before. I have always noted it and felt sorry for them and their spouse. If you've felt that vibe from the opposite sex, I don't need to explain it to you. If you haven't, I couldn't explain it to you. It is one of those things that I know when I see.

It is entirely possible that I am giving off an "Unhappy Husband Vibe." I don't mean to. Nonetheless, I suspect that most women are far more adept at detecting such things than most men. Like a wounded fish, the person giving out the vibe draw other interested fish and a fair number of predators by their unconscious actions.




I don't like it my marriage as it stands. My situation sucks. Such is life. I'll suck it up for the people depending on me for a short time, and absent any changes, I'll pop smoke and exfil rapidly when circumstances allow.

My four year plan isn't set in stone either. I have boundaries that are uncrossable without direct aggressive action occurring. Just because I am waiting, don't assume I am overly Beta. I am a meat-eater.

Last edited by Posse; 04-17-2012 at 07:47 PM. Reason: Added my crossthread points.
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:28 PM   #182 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SimplyAmorous View Post
Does Christians really expect a couple to not even touch each other ??
It's funny that you make this point. I recently read an article where the author (apparently a devout Christian) asserts that waiting years and years to have any sex is indeed too much.

The author posits we are intended to settle down much earlier than is now common. Men and women today generally aspire to learn a skill (college or on the job), make some money, have fun, and THEN get married. The conclusion: striving for the "single life" reflects immaturity - people are reluctant to struggle together and sacrifice for the needs of another.

It's an interesting read, although I disagree with the conclusion that we have a generation of Peter Pans and Disney Princesses expecting effortless bliss. What I really like about it is that it openly affirms the goodness of sex and a high sex drive. This is rare, and flies in the face of the majority who beat the "self control" drum, which IMO leads to the major sex hangups you see too often among the Christian community.

I just found the link: The Case for Early Marriage | Christianity Today | A Magazine of Evangelical Conviction
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Old 04-17-2012, 09:15 PM   #183 (permalink)
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Industrialized nations world wide are getting married and having kids much later than ever compared to historical standards. Not trying to make a statement about which is better (that's for another thread), but historically folks got married between ages 13-18... 20. Yes there are cases where men married in their 20's and 30's, but for most folks they married young.

Now folks marry often times in their late 20's to 30's (or later). They start to have kids in their 30's or later, compared to times past when folks started having kids in their teen years or 20's.

All that has a huge affect on all sorts of things, and as for most religions which promote chastity before marriage (Christianity in specific for our discussion) it creates a big problem.

Not saying I have a universal solution, but with my kids I won't discourage them from marrying younger than our generation did (if they want to). I know several people who went through 4 year college while married. Sure it's tough and not common these days... but really I don't have a problem with it.

edit: we are getting pretty far off topic, maybe we should create another thread lol.

Last edited by Browncoat; 04-17-2012 at 09:21 PM.
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Old 04-17-2012, 09:26 PM   #184 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Posse View Post
To be fair, she didn't laugh. She was more angry than sardonic.

Realize that I have shared a very thin slice of my relationship and the circumstances enveloping it.

The rest of the pie, which I have not shared here, has led me, through great deliberation with extensive personal, legal, and financial consulting, to pick the path I have chosen.

If the only decision-making matrix involved were sex or no sex, I would be so gone. I can understand if you do not understand my decision based on the limited information I have presented, but believe me when I say that there are other factors involved which strongly indicate towards the decision I have made.

I am the Pilot-in-Command of my personal aircraft, and make the decisions related to it. I have chosen a forced landing 4 years away that is more easily survivable for the many multiple occupants of my aircraft rather than a immediate nosedive right now.

I'm not standing by this relationship as it stands any longer than I need to.

I am standing by my marriage vows during that time, but my eyes are wide open.

CROSSTHREAD POINTS: The fact that my eyes are wide open are probably why I am noticing all the opportunities I would have to capitalize on if I were so inclined.

I used to be oblivious to them. Heck, I wasn't exposed to many of them. I was the guy who did the drop kids off at school-work-pick the kids up-stay at home in the evening shuffle. I was in the dumps emotionally, was letting myself go because there was outright hostility in my relationship and I was depressed about it because it had to be all my fault. My wife engaged in some over the top but not deal-breaker behaviors that got me on all the various marriage sites, got me into Stop walking on Eggshells, and Married Man Sex Life. Athol Kay is a very smart man who has connected a lot of dots in my opinion, as are a lot of other authors. After taking natural aggressive behavior to the threats I saw in my marriage, internal and external, and I had fortified the walls somewhat to stabilize things, I started studying up and learned what my various adversaries were and started preparing for them..

After reading a bunch, including MMSL, I realized that I needed to step up my game for me. My wife can come or go with the program as she sees fit, but I have to live with myself, and while I was a good guy overall, I saw areas for improvement when I took a frank look in the mirror. I have thought from the beginning of running the MAP that if my wife came along, that would be a bonus. So far that hasn't happened.

If she doesn't come on board it will be her loss, and it will be a huge loss, believe me.

Since I started running the MAP, I have lost 20 lbs of fat, regained 20 lbs of muscle I used to have in my youth, and am brimming over with confidence instead of being a whipped puppy dog. Athol even warns about what happens when you run the MAP in regards to female attention and how you need to be wary.

Kay warns that when you start running the MAP, that it is possible that lots of other women will notice the change in you and start hitting on you, It is so true in my case. I don't want to sound like an infomercial for MMSL, but he does give fair warning about what can happen when you run a MAP. I have so far found it to be eerily accurate. Like I said, it is painful to pass up opportunities when you are starved, but it is the right thing to do. It is nice for the ego and lets me know I am headed in the right direction, however.

In my life I have noticed what I call the "Unhappy Wife Vibe" from women who send signals when they are unhappy in their marriage before. I have always noted it and felt sorry for them and their spouse. If you've felt that vibe from the opposite sex, I don't need to explain it to you. If you haven't, I couldn't explain it to you. It is one of those things that I know when I see.

It is entirely possible that I am giving off an "Unhappy Husband Vibe." I don't mean to. Nonetheless, I suspect that most women are far more adept at detecting such things than most men. Like a wounded fish, the person giving out the vibe draw other interested fish and a fair number of predators by their unconscious actions.




I don't like it my marriage as it stands. My situation sucks. Such is life. I'll suck it up for the people depending on me for a short time, and absent any changes, I'll pop smoke and exfil rapidly when circumstances allow.

My four year plan isn't set in stone either. I have boundaries that are uncrossable without direct aggressive action occurring. Just because I am waiting, don't assume I am overly Beta. I am a meat-eater.
I was using you as an example of the other end of the spectrum. If you want to start a thread great, but I think you are wrong and Jeff delusional as to solutions to your plight.

I was using the example that not everyone feels cajoled to step it up to 20X's/mth vs. their need of 1X/mth.

You two are close to zero and I feel terribly for you as I do for an LD who has to increase their frequency 2000% (i.e. 20X's/mth vs. 1X/mth), ith people on TAM saying that is reasonable.
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Old 04-17-2012, 10:38 PM   #185 (permalink)
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Wish I had more time now to get into this as I think it's very interesting. Unfortunately, I'm a wee bit overwhelmed at the moment so I'll spill out my thoughts real quick.

Beo, my advice to her would be to work to come to an understanding with her husband and to be honest. Marriage is about compromise but without honesty both partners will feel jipped.

I'd also let her know that she is not alone and that despite popular opinion and magazine articles, plenty of women struggle with their desire for sex vs. their husband's need for it and many men fall short in understanding women's sexuality. I think many women fall short in understanding their own sexuality. I admire her braveness in expressing an unpopular opinion that is sure to create a barrage of opinions that go against it.

I briefly read through the other threads. Someone asked me where I saw the advice leaning towards it being the man's fault...I'm not a sex in marriage girl on these forums. I rarely read here. I happened upon it in reading "Today's Posts" on my phone during a lunch break. I tend to stick to Ladies & Men's Clubhouse and in the Men's clubhouse, posts are ripe with advice to Man Up...which is essentially promoting selfishness out of desperation. Desperate times call for desperate measures I suppose.

There has always been this idea that women use sex as a privilege earned. Although I do not myself, I understand how it comes into play. A woman with a low drive has no desire for sex, her man has a great desire for sex. Let's say man disconnects because he is not getting sex as much as he'd like and instead of talking about it openly, he retreats and isn't as loving as he could be. Wife loses emotional connection leading to even less sex, cycle repeats leading to resentment. I'm not sure there is always an intent to withhold (although I'm sure in some cases there is).

In the other poster's thread, she says she gives her husband sex willingly to the quantity he desires. We fault her because she doesn't desire more sex and only does it to satisfy her husband. This is very, very flawed. Calling her selfish is even more flawed. It's as if she can't win in her situation and will always be the "problem".

I just find this curious. Why isn't a man's need for sex 3-4 x's a week a problem?...because it is natural? Is it not natural for a woman's sex drive to be less needy in the bedroom? How is one more wrong or right than the other.

So basically, I get this message: Wives must put out or eventually risk being alone or cheated upon or live with a miserable man.

I don't know, I've gotten that message my whole life. It seems deeply wrong and disturbing to me. I'm disappointed to read it here every time I read it. I admire and respect many men but their sexuality seems more like a weakness than anything else. I get that this will be an unpopular statement but I am just being honest.

I'd also really like to know how many divorced men go directly into sex 3-4x's a week. I highly doubt this is the case. Married men act like every woman on the street will be looking to suck his penis upon freedom from the shackles of a wife. I bet many men are lonely, confused, feel defeated and take time to re-establish a sexually satisfying relationship after a divorce.

I just don't buy into it. If a man wants a sexually satisfying relationship with his wife he has another thing coming to him if he thinks demanding it will create the sexy minx he desires. That is only created through deep care and keeping of a relationship by both partners and a willingness to understand his woman's sexuality beyond the word *cumming*
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Old 04-17-2012, 11:20 PM   #186 (permalink)
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Posse,
If you are controlling your plane that includes managing your fuel
Supply (money). And that means you sit wife down and explain the new "austerity" plan needed to prepare for 2016. And you make the discretionay spending equivalent. But you enforce cutbacks. If she wants to pull the plug over that, let her. If your depiction of he situation is accurate she won't.




UOTE=Posse;686178]To be fair, she didn't laugh. She was more angry than sardonic.

Realize that I have shared a very thin slice of my relationship and the circumstances enveloping it.

The rest of the pie, which I have not shared here, has led me, through great deliberation with extensive personal, legal, and financial consulting, to pick the path I have chosen.

If the only decision-making matrix involved were sex or no sex, I would be so gone. I can understand if you do not understand my decision based on the limited information I have presented, but believe me when I say that there are other factors involved which strongly indicate towards the decision I have made.

I am the Pilot-in-Command of my personal aircraft, and make the decisions related to it. I have chosen a forced landing 4 years away that is more easily survivable for the many multiple occupants of my aircraft rather than a immediate nosedive right now.

I'm not standing by this relationship as it stands any longer than I need to.

I am standing by my marriage vows during that time, but my eyes are wide open.

CROSSTHREAD POINTS: The fact that my eyes are wide open are probably why I am noticing all the opportunities I would have to capitalize on if I were so inclined.

I used to be oblivious to them. Heck, I wasn't exposed to many of them. I was the guy who did the drop kids off at school-work-pick the kids up-stay at home in the evening shuffle. I was in the dumps emotionally, was letting myself go because there was outright hostility in my relationship and I was depressed about it because it had to be all my fault. My wife engaged in some over the top but not deal-breaker behaviors that got me on all the various marriage sites, got me into Stop walking on Eggshells, and Married Man Sex Life. Athol Kay is a very smart man who has connected a lot of dots in my opinion, as are a lot of other authors. After taking natural aggressive behavior to the threats I saw in my marriage, internal and external, and I had fortified the walls somewhat to stabilize things, I started studying up and learned what my various adversaries were and started preparing for them..

After reading a bunch, including MMSL, I realized that I needed to step up my game for me. My wife can come or go with the program as she sees fit, but I have to live with myself, and while I was a good guy overall, I saw areas for improvement when I took a frank look in the mirror. I have thought from the beginning of running the MAP that if my wife came along, that would be a bonus. So far that hasn't happened.

If she doesn't come on board it will be her loss, and it will be a huge loss, believe me.

Since I started running the MAP, I have lost 20 lbs of fat, regained 20 lbs of muscle I used to have in my youth, and am brimming over with confidence instead of being a whipped puppy dog. Athol even warns about what happens when you run the MAP in regards to female attention and how you need to be wary.

Kay warns that when you start running the MAP, that it is possible that lots of other women will notice the change in you and start hitting on you, It is so true in my case. I don't want to sound like an infomercial for MMSL, but he does give fair warning about what can happen when you run a MAP. I have so far found it to be eerily accurate. Like I said, it is painful to pass up opportunities when you are starved, but it is the right thing to do. It is nice for the ego and lets me know I am headed in the right direction, however.

In my life I have noticed what I call the "Unhappy Wife Vibe" from women who send signals when they are unhappy in their marriage before. I have always noted it and felt sorry for them and their spouse. If you've felt that vibe from the opposite sex, I don't need to explain it to you. If you haven't, I couldn't explain it to you. It is one of those things that I know when I see.

It is entirely possible that I am giving off an "Unhappy Husband Vibe." I don't mean to. Nonetheless, I suspect that most women are far more adept at detecting such things than most men. Like a wounded fish, the person giving out the vibe draw other interested fish and a fair number of predators by their unconscious actions.




I don't like it my marriage as it stands. My situation sucks. Such is life. I'll suck it up for the people depending on me for a short time, and absent any changes, I'll pop smoke and exfil rapidly when circumstances allow.

My four year plan isn't set in stone either. I have boundaries that are uncrossable without direct aggressive action occurring. Just because I am waiting, don't assume I am overly Beta. I am a meat-eater.[/QUOTE]
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Old 04-17-2012, 11:30 PM   #187 (permalink)
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You don't seem to understand my point.... I get the fact ANYTHING FREAKING goes once you walk down the aisle, but when one is pounded relentlessly in the head with it being evil before that time...it tends to play on the psyche....has lasting effects that need shed, ya know...the whole putting down the flesh, Lust is deserving to pluck your eyes out ... It is MY personal experience. I happens to more than you would think.

If you escaped it's effects, you are blessed. Some of us don't. Take a moment & read this poster's ordeal (1st post)...I used to pm her -trying to help her...she cried when she found MY story.. her's was so much worse... because her sex drive completely SHUT DOWN ..... just take a moment -read >> Porn and Christianity

I dated my bf for 8 long years before we married, that is a long time to keep it in the pants, but he did it! Does Christians really expect a couple to not even touch each other ?? See I feel that is permissable but christians are divided. I do wonder where you stand??

I guess different camps believe different things. According to the Test of virginity in the Old Testament , I passed, but most would say I was a tainted Virgin. Oh well..let them judge.

Ya know it kinda sucks to equate some healthy physical pleasure when dating . I just don't see the big deal. I will never agree with chrstians stance on purity before the wedding, it is too strict in my opinon...impossible to live up too, most especially if you are a physical touching HD person...geeze got to have a little fun !
Yes I do get your point. Your church was teaching your wrong and you beat yourself up over it for years. My wife was really repressed too. It took a lot of serious study of the Bible to realize that lust between a husband and wife isn't bad. Lust between any other two people is not good.

Yes I do believe in purity before marriage. Did I stick to that? No, I'm a sinner, so sue me. Will I advise others to try to remain pure before their wedding, yes I will. Do I wish I had? Yes I do.

Eight years is way too long to keep it in your pants. If a guy is unwilling or unable to marry a gal within 2 years, he should move on. Why 8 years?
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Old 04-17-2012, 11:33 PM   #188 (permalink)
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I actually don't think it's beneficial to say that someone who doesn't have spontaneous desire for sex, or what some refer to as LD, is abnormal. That immediately puts people in boxes of "you are right/good" and "you are wrong/bad".
Not everything is morally relative. If I post that I would like to drink a bottle of vodka and beat my wife every day, that would be bad. Similarly, if a woman posts that she wants to force her husband into a clinically sexless marriage for no reason other than she doesn't feel like catering to his needs, that's bad.

Good marriages have good spouses who provide for each other's needs. Bad marriages have bad spouses who yearn to lie back while their spouse/servant peels grapes and caters to their every whim.
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Old 04-17-2012, 11:38 PM   #189 (permalink)
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How about the HD person just take matters in their own hands and masturbate more to get themselves over the hump? With the internet, magazines, ppv & so on an so forth, take responsibility for your HD and find that compromise.
That would be fine if the need for sex consisted of nothing more than releasing pressure in the testicles. It's more than that. Men need an emotional connection that masturbating can't provide.

Your advice would be like me telling my wife that I know she needs to have conversations in order to connect with me. But, in my opinion, that need could be fulfilled if she stood in the corner, faced the wall, and talked to herself. After all, the words would still come out of her face. Therefore, her needs should be met.
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Old 04-17-2012, 11:55 PM   #190 (permalink)
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You two are close to zero and I feel terribly for you as I do for an LD who has to increase their frequency 2000% (i.e. 20X's/mth vs. 1X/mth), ith people on TAM saying that is reasonable.
Your definition of reasonable is unreasonable. Proposing a sexual frequency of once a month is borderline sexless as defined by marriage counselors. We're not talking about horny teenagers saying once a month is unreasonable. We're talking about mental health professionals saying that such a paucity of sex leaves marriages vulnerable.

Also, no one on the other thread used 20x a month as the definition of reasonable. That's just the number the OP said she was using.

So, saying that we expect someone to have sex 2000% more than they desire is just ridiculous.

If I say that I want to kill 100 school children a year, should I balk if someone tells me I shouldn't kill any, because that's such a big drop from my desired frequency? I would say not. Zero murdered school children is the reasonable frequency. It was my desire that was unreasonable.
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Old 04-18-2012, 12:21 AM   #191 (permalink)
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In the other poster's thread, she says she gives her husband sex willingly to the quantity he desires. We fault her because she doesn't desire more sex and only does it to satisfy her husband. This is very, very flawed. Calling her selfish is even more flawed. It's as if she can't win in her situation and will always be the "problem".
I think you've misinterpreted the other thread. The poster stated she desires sex only when she is ovulating, once a month. She then stated that she thinks she should be free to decrease the sexual frequency in her marriage down to her optimal level. And that her husband should just get over any disappointment or betrayal he would inevitably feel.

In my opinion, and the opinion of many on this board, that attitude is the perfect example of selfishness in a marriage. She wants what she wants when she wants it. And her husband should just deal with it.

Now, to the poster's credit, she is having sex with her husband enough to keep him happy. And, her later posts in the thread showed a willingness to revise her attitude. I haven't read all the posts, so I don't know how it ends up. But I'm happy that posters such as Havesomethingtosay are outnumbered by more reasonable people who can help her marriage.

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So basically, I get this message: Wives must put out or eventually risk being alone or cheated upon or live with a miserable man.
Exactly. I agree that that's not a fair message. It's just how the world works. The message for a wildebeest is that he should run fast or he will be eaten by a lion. Is that fair? No. Will Disney make a movie about Princess Wildebeest who doesn't feel like running, so a lion eats her? No. It's just the cold, cruel world. Run or die. In a marriage, it's put out or risk grave consequences.

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I don't know, I've gotten that message my whole life. It seems deeply wrong and disturbing to me. I'm disappointed to read it here every time I read it. I admire and respect many men but their sexuality seems more like a weakness than anything else. I get that this will be an unpopular statement but I am just being honest.
Let me get this straight. Men say that they have one single, major need in marriage and you see it as a weakness? Do you believe that men should be robots who are calibrated to serve women with no reciprocity expected? Or do you think that men should be calibrated to desire the same things that women desire? Do you see women's desire for emotional connection and romance as weakness?

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I'd also really like to know how many divorced men go directly into sex 3-4x's a week. I highly doubt this is the case. Married men act like every woman on the street will be looking to suck his penis upon freedom from the shackles of a wife.
If your premise is that men who are getting sex twice a week are divorcing their poor, undeserving wives because they want sex 4x a week, then I think you have a faulty premise. Most of the men on this board, or the divorcing board, who are contemplating divorce over sex have gone months without even sniffing sex. And anybody can go from zero to more than zero without millions of dollars or movie-star looks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trenton View Post
I just don't buy into it. If a man wants a sexually satisfying relationship with his wife he has another thing coming to him if he thinks demanding it will create the sexy minx he desires. That is only created through deep care and keeping of a relationship by both partners and a willingness to understand his woman's sexuality beyond the word *cumming*
I don't disagree. But I think both sexes can be at fault. If a woman wants a happy marriage, she's kidding herself if she thinks that a monthly session of, "let's get this over with" is going to be enough to keep her husband worshiping at her feet and handing over his paycheck without risking her discovering the joys of single motherhood.
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:06 AM   #192 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sandc Yes I do get your point. Your church was teaching your wrong and you beat yourself up over it for years. My wife was really repressed too. It took a lot of serious study of the Bible to realize that lust between a husband and wife isn't bad. Lust between any other two people is not good
You are speaking out of 2 sides of your mouth here... My church was teaching me EXACTLY what you believe... You just said it ...LUST BETWEEN anyone not married is NOT GOOD = sinful.

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Originally Posted by sandc View Post
Eight years is way too long to keep it in your pants. If a guy is unwilling or unable to marry a gal within 2 years, he should move on. Why 8 years?
Because I met him when I was 15, he was the only guy I ever dated, after so many years, I wasn't sure, I felt I never had any experiences, gave his ring back (he was devestated), dated another , then realized what I had..... he would have married me right out of high school.... we both had lousy jobs, It was me who wasn't ready, and I wanted a BIG wedding....our own place.... there was a season... I waited for "peace in my heart"...I was not going to rush ahead, then have regrets later, ruin his life...... it all fell together beautifully....It was 'THE SEASON" for us...Preacher even used that scripture while we stood before him.

I do not feel people should get married just cause they are burning with lust... don't agree with you at all. There is this one guy at my Church, within 8 yrs, this dude married 3 differnt women because he was trying to honor those LUST scriptures, they were all disaster marraiges.....look what he left behind.

You know what kills me about Christians.... NONE of you can live up to those rediculous expectations....and the handful who do are so damn PROUD of it... they generally judge everyone around them. Also, I might add, the ones who DO... are likely lower drive people, or they would be going crazy.

OK, I hear how you look at this... we are all sinners, sue me. Yep, that is all I ever got from Church... I am a pathetic lowly wretched sinner... I felt like I was worthless DUST for years..blood had to be shed for me to look my head up upon that cross... or I deserved Hell... My mother used to have this picture ....the blood dripping down Jesus face, along with the tears....damn what a GUILT TRIP ! How do you get that out of your head.

Love how christians tell everyone they deserve hell without a sacrifice.... that is some nasty sh** rolling around in your head when we are growing up.

Everything I did...listen to rock music, that was a sin..burned my Guns & ROses CD once in the fire..what was the point, when "Welcome to the Jungle" came on the radio, I couldn't resist jamming to it anyway, loved Highway to Hell too! Enjoyed soap operas...that was a sin...R rated sex scene...oh that was gooood ! I was nothing but pathetic.... eat too much chocolate, gluttony now...

I no longer view my Creator as that much of a KILL JOY.....it was not healthy for my psyche to experience all of that. I had no desire to be that damn pure anyway. None of that was good news to me. I felt like a scourge all the time.

Pleasure is a gift, We are still sexual even before we marry, to deny these things, is, in my opioion, is to set yourself up for the bullsh** I did. I went to one of those Purity Ring Seminars... last year ...WOW....they don't even think you should kiss..a lingering kiss. Really !! Getting too close to the creekbank. My Lord. Why set our standards THIS HIGH - when 99.9% is going to fail and take on guilt & shame for it. Did a thread on that too: Any Parents familair with "Silver Ring Thing" -Purity Ring movement?

I could no longer view God in the ways you do. I read all about where this stuff comes from, started with St Augustine & his connecting the Original Sin doctrine (I don't believe in that either) ....to SEX !

I got 6 kids to raise.. I don't want them to go through what I did. I want them to be "balanced".....the dating years are vital to how they go on and view these things. With all I have said here.. you likely get the idea I am for casual sex... NOT AT ALL. I even see it as sacred.
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:22 AM   #193 (permalink)
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That would be fine if the need for sex consisted of nothing more than releasing pressure in the testicles. It's more than that. Men need an emotional connection that masturbating can't provide.

Your advice would be like me telling my wife that I know she needs to have conversations in order to connect with me. But, in my opinion, that need could be fulfilled if she stood in the corner, faced the wall, and talked to herself. After all, the words would still come out of her face. Therefore, her needs should be met.
Great break up my post and just take one part of it to prove your point. I advocated plenty of forms of intimacy that did not include sex or bj's. I said that masturbating was available between those times you have actual sex, which I still advocate should be at least 1X/wk in my perfect world of a LTR.
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:27 AM   #194 (permalink)
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It's funny that you make this point. I recently read an article where the author (apparently a devout Christian) asserts that waiting years and years to have any sex is indeed too much.

........

What I really like about it is that it openly affirms the goodness of sex and a high sex drive. This is rare, and flies in the face of the majority who beat the "self control" drum, which IMO leads to the major sex hangups you see too often among the Christian community.

I just found the link: The Case for Early Marriage | Christianity Today | A Magazine of Evangelical Conviction
Appreciate you sharing this article ... now this Christian has some common sense. I am not a Christian basher, most of my friends are Christians... my oldest is a Worship Leader, wanna Be Youth Pastor. But even he , I feel is somewhat Repressed. I worry about this. 21 yrs old, believes in "Courting", doesn't even flirt, HE IS POPULAR, good looking ... but soooo "goody goody". He isn't a hypocrite anyway...just one of those ones following it all by the letter... but I fear what he is setting himself up for.

He does struggle with looking at porn and HATES himself for it. Heck, at least I know he isn't gay! He accually said to me one day... he thinks that would be awesome to wait till your wedding day for your 1st kiss. I told him he was crazy!!!

My biggest fear.. he is going to end up with a repressed virgin...after all this honorable waiting ... to see that happen to him... I would be livid! But hey, it's his life... his beliefs, I hope they don't bite him in the ass....he has sure gotten an earful from his Mother.
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:32 AM   #195 (permalink)
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Your definition of reasonable is unreasonable. Proposing a sexual frequency of once a month is borderline sexless as defined by marriage counselors. We're not talking about horny teenagers saying once a month is unreasonable. We're talking about mental health professionals saying that such a paucity of sex leaves marriages vulnerable.

Also, no one on the other thread used 20x a month as the definition of reasonable. That's just the number the OP said she was using.

So, saying that we expect someone to have sex 2000% more than they desire is just ridiculous.

If I say that I want to kill 100 school children a year, should I balk if someone tells me I shouldn't kill any, because that's such a big drop from my desired frequency? I would say not. Zero murdered school children is the reasonable frequency. It was my desire that was unreasonable.
Again you miss the point completely. I have said 1X/mth is sexless and have said to this woman (who refuses to really listen) that she should seek professional help to address her feelings and ideals.

I think a "sexless" is completely unacceptable and sad unless both have that lack of desire and it is clearly outlined and understood by the parties. This is no different then someone who wants it more then 1X/day and does not make it 100% clear to their SO. Yes I think those having sex more then 1X/day is too much.

I also agree about the idea of bait & switch as reprehensible. In the case on the other thread she claims she talked to her husband about this prior to marriage, so technically there was no bait and switch and he knows 19 out of 20 (minimum is 9 out of 10) times they have sex she does not want to and is doing it solely for him and to fulfill his desires and he is pursuing her "everyday" for it. I have no idea how he handles this disconnect.

Last edited by Havesomethingtosay; 04-18-2012 at 06:51 AM.
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