Sex in MarriageSexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.
I`m starting to wonder what percentage of sexless marriages have husbands who don`t differentiate sexual and non sexual touching.
I see a very small pattern emerging in this thread.
Our marriage was largely sexless for the first 12 years, and I have always touched my wife.
Most of the time non-sexually because I've always taken great pleasure in the feeling of her skin on my finger tips.
I guess some of this is how you define non-sexual. For me I'd define that as touching that doesn't ever intend to lead to sex, nor does it involve genitals (or right next to them).
Hi everyone, I'm new here and just thought I'd chime in. I think mixed gender touching generally has a sexual subtext because that's how we are wired biologically. Context obviously changes how sexual it is...shaking my female boss's hand at work when I was introduced was not very sexual but if we were at a bar and drinking it might have been a different story. But I did quickly assess whether or not I thought she was attractive and I think we always automatically size up other people for if they would be potential sexual partners. And when we aren't having sex regularly with our spouse we men generally view things more sexually than they might otherwise be.
And isn't that the general danger of close male/female friendships? There's always that sexual subtext...we can choose to act or not but biologically we are just wired that way. I do think that it is disrespectful if he's always pressuring you for sex and that's what it sounds like. I know I had to learn to control myself as well as learn to read my wife's body language when she just wanted a hug and nothing more. It was hard work and frustrating for me though.
I know I had to learn to control myself as well as learn to read my wife's body language when she just wanted a hug and nothing more. It was hard work and frustrating for me though.
Why is it hard work and frustrating to hug your wife without expecting it to turn into sex right then? Or to give her a kiss? Or to hold her hand? Why is that so hard?
It's called being affectionate. Did people who have trouble with this grow up in households that weren't affectionate or something? Never saw your parents hug or kiss just because, and without running into the bedroom? Never saw them snuggle on the couch watching tv?
My wife is hot and turns me on just by being in the room. I have to pay attention to her needs and ignore my desire to carry her upstairs and throw her on the bed. This is not to say I don't act affectionately towards her, there's just some work involved because I have to focus on context and how she's feeling. I do all that gladly but it was something I had to learn. They don't teach this stuff in school! Lol. Why does that seem wrong? I don't think this is pathological at all. Its just learning to manage your desires.
Why is it hard work and frustrating to hug your wife without expecting it to turn into sex right then? Or to give her a kiss? Or to hold her hand? Why is that so hard?
It's called being affectionate. Did people who have trouble with this grow up in households that weren't affectionate or something? Never saw your parents hug or kiss just because, and without running into the bedroom? Never saw them snuggle on the couch watching tv?
My husband and I grew up in similar and opposite households. We both came from single moms but my mom was affectionate his was cold.
I think we both have a need to touch and be touched. I had a couple of friends who had 2 parent households, I did see the handholding and the giggling. I did see the "looks" exchanged, and us kids booted out the door with freezie pops.
I was aware of the long lay ins on Saturdays/Sunday's. Some kept condoms in the bathroom and porn in the bedroom. What I saw was single moms bitter, man hating shrews.
My mom is a big fan of "marriage is slavery". She had 2 parents, and has what I now come to call a sick fvck relationship with her dad. He died from cancer, and she never got over it. She hates men and sex, and it took her years to accept my husband.
She hated him for whatever twisted reasons she had. She and I were very open about sex...but never said anything about marriage. Men's only use was their sperm.
She and I had polar different up bringings. My grandmother is German and rather cold. I love my husband and I love to touch him all the time. I want him to touch me all time. What's wrong with love taps.
When my husband leaves for work or if I visit him at his job, we don't kiss but touch cheeks and I touch his arm.
I draw some bright lines here.
- I initiate a lot of very intimate - non-sexual touches. The full body hug I do from behind in the kitchen is not sexual. It feels REALLY good because she melts back into me. Love that. If she ever saw me hug another woman like that - she would quite rightly go instantly ballistic. - We spoon in bed a LOT - USUALLY after one of us has said "Lets spoon and watch tv which means we are not having sex. And usually that is me as that is the guilt free pass for the night.
- She initiates a lot of non-sexual touch - I love that to
There is no "teasing" though. She doesn't do even lightly sexual stuff unless she wants to have sex. And she knows that I don't mix the two because I realized it was best to separate non-sexual affection from sex - for me. As the LD partner she gets to do whatever she wants. And that seems fair to me. Meaning she can turn affection into sex. Reason I don't is I don't want to add to the long list of women who are anxious when their H hugs them, because it is almost always the first step in his initiation. Since I seek to provide comfort, and a zone of warmth and love, I prefer to leave anxiety triggers out of the equation. If she was stiff when I hugged her, instead of melting into me, I would feel rejected.....
What I bolded could not happen in our bed lol He would get hard quickly and there would be something poking me in my butt, and he turns into an octopus and if I say no, he backs off 100%, no snuggling at all, he rolls over on his stomach or his side facing away from me.
I want what you and tacoma describe. That full body hug you describe, that can't happen either... his hands find there way to my butt or around to my vag or he simply starts rubbing me all over and if I'm receptive to his hug, he thinks that means I'm horny and he's going to score... When no, I just want that hug right then and there... If I'm not receptive to his hugs with groping, he gets aggravated.
happyman -- You say it's something you had to learn.... Is it because your wife pointed it out or did you pick up on it yourself?
You know, we were in the kitchen last night and he had to reach around me to put something up and he was close enough to give me that full body hug from behind that MEM and tacoma speak of I wanted that. But he didn't. Why not? Was it because we were cooking dinner and he knew there was no chance of sex, so why bother being affectionate with me?
I know there was no affection in his household growing up and I understand that, but I know he can be affectionate without sex, I've seen him do it and when I hug him back or something, I don't want a comment like "oh yeah, wanna go to the room" because I have to answer that question and I don't want to go to the room right then and he takes that as rejection, even though we may have had sex the night before.
Why is it hard work and frustrating to hug your wife without expecting it to turn into sex right then? Or to give her a kiss? Or to hold her hand? Why is that so hard?
I'm struggling to come up with an analogy that would fit. I'll probably fail, because at the end of the day, I don't understand the female perspective nearly as well as I would like to. (But I do try...)
How about this:
In the morning you and your husband talk in general terms about going out for dinner and drinks that evening. No definite arrangements are actually made, but you both agree it would be fun. You go to work and have a day from hell. It's so hectic that you miss lunch. As the afternoon wears on and the gnawing, empty feeling in your middle gets more and more unpleasant, you start looking forward to eating out as more than just a possibility.
Evening comes and your husband picks you up from work. He seems to be driving in the direction of your favorite restaurant, but when you get there, he drives right by it without stopping. You say, "I thought we were eating out. I'm really starving" and he replies, "Well I'm not really hungry tonight"
The parallel here should be obvious. In a healthy relationship where sexual frequency is agreeable to both parties there is no problem. But when one party feels like they're 'starving' it's really easy for the tiniest hint to lead to disappointment and hurt feelings
Quote:
Originally Posted by norajane
It's called being affectionate. Did people who have trouble with this grow up in households that weren't affectionate or something? Never saw your parents hug or kiss just because, and without running into the bedroom? Never saw them snuggle on the couch watching tv?
As men, one consistent messege that our wives tell us and we read about in books and internet forums like TAM is this: We can't expect a woman to instantly feel sexual.
A man needs to gently and lovingly kindle that fire in tiny, incremental steps. A woman needs affection, a woman needs emotional connection, a woman needs touch and a woman needs mood; sometimes for hours beforehand.
If a woman wants an evening of intimacy without sex, then it's really important that she communicate that to her husband beforehand. Without being a mind reader, man is not going to know the difference between cuddling on the couch watching television as an incremental step to further intimacy and cuddling on the couch watching television for its own sake.
It's neither fair nor consistent to suddenly pretend that the exact same subtle approach and gentle contact that a woman needs in order to feel sexual has no sexual connotation at all and is in fact, 'non-sexual.'
If a woman wants an evening of intimacy without sex, then it's really important that she communicate that to her husband beforehand. Without being a mind reader, man is not going to know the difference between cuddling on the couch watching television as an incremental step to further intimacy and cuddling on the couch watching television for its own sake.
But the thing in my house is that if I communicate with him well ahead of time that I'm not in the mood (or whatever) for sex that night -- I automatically get no touch whatsoever until the next night, when he think he stands a better chance of having sex. Or if I try to hug him or touch him later after I've let him know we won't be having sex, he thinks I changed my mind and now I want sex.
I don't think he understands the whole non sexual touch thing, he doesn't see a point in it, but I've done what I can, what is within my power to do to try and increase my drive... I need his help now.
I was going to bring it up to him last night -- But I don't know how. I should just blurt it out -- "I need non sexual touch occasionally"... I don't know.
There do seem to be a couple of guys here who don`t differentiate between the two. Makes me a bit more understanding/empathetic to some of the complaints some women have around here.
Well my wife and I are experiencing the 'flameout' that sometimes accompanies menopause. The ovaries cut way back on estrogen production and menses comes to a halt, but they continue merrily producing testosterone at previous levels.
The woman's drive goes absolutely through the roof to the point where it's difficult for a fifty-something male to physically keep up. (We're talking multiple times a day on weekends)
Here are some snippets from another forum where women are discussing this:
Quote:
"I'm 56 and haven't had a period in over a year. For the past 6 months, I have felt like a cat in heat. I have never had a sex drive like this in my life. It's driving me nuts."
"I had the increased libido about 2 years ago, when my periods started getting off schedule and I was having hot flashes. I thought I would go crazy with all of the thoughts, feelings and dreams associated with it. I, unfortunately, also developed a crush on someone (it was only a crush, nothing more than that in reality) but I felt guilty all of the time because I was having these feelings and having a crush on someone other than my husband. To me, increased libido is no fun."
"I, too, have had increased libido since peri-menopause started. But, sadly, I'm single with no man in my life. So all my extra sexual energy has been coming out in dreams -- and believe me, I have some doozies!"
"I have your same problem. Increased libido, but no man. Its tough to concentrate on anything, when you feel like you're undressing every man you see."
It has been one of life's great reversals and given us both a big hint of what the other one has gone through.
But the thing in my house is that if I communicate with him well ahead of time that I'm not in the mood (or whatever) for sex that night -- I automatically get no touch whatsoever until the next night....
Well like I said, I think that's extremely short-sighted of him. I wouldn't call it 'non-sexual' but I certainly agree that women deserve lots and lots of touch and closeness with no strings of any kind attached.
I think a great many "withholders" don't appreciate the level of resentment they create over years of pushing their partners away. After being turned away at least 98% of the time over 10 years, I really don't want to hear "can't you just hold me?" or "that's all you care about!" If you've ignored your partner's basic needs for years at a time, you don't deserve to be cuddled. You deserve abandonment. Each and every time you've turned your spouse down (and for some, we're talking tens of thousands of times), you've placed your needs over their's. Every single time. In response to your sustained, abhorent cruelty, your partner doesn't kill you, beat you, or divorce you, they just have the bad manners of touching you in a semi-sexual way. You believe they should react to your years of abuse and inconsideration with restraint and consideration. That's not even logical.
I think a great many "withholders" don't appreciate the level of resentment they create over years of pushing their partners away. After being turned away at least 98% of the time over 10 years, I really don't want to hear "can't you just hold me?" or "that's all you care about!" If you've ignored your partner's basic needs for years at a time, you don't deserve to be cuddled. You deserve abandonment. Each and every time you've turned your spouse down (and for some, we're talking tens of thousands of times), you've placed your needs over their's. Every single time. In response to your sustained, abhorent cruelty, your partner doesn't kill you, beat you, or divorce you, they just have the bad manners of touching you in a semi-sexual way. You believe they should react to your years of abuse and inconsideration with restraint and consideration. That's not even logical.
Are you talking to me? Excuse me if you are.... My H has betrayed me, cheated on me, emotionally and physically beat me, lied to me and has been an outright a$$hole over the first 3 of our 5 years together. I have agreed to reconcile with him and we are on year two. I am asking for his help in this fvcking reconciliation. He's lucky he still has his family in tact, THANKS TO ME.
I wish to fvcking gawd some people would read back stories before they start shouting off at the mouth.
I think a great many "withholders" don't appreciate the level of resentment they create over years of pushing their partners away. After being turned away at least 98% of the time over 10 years, I really don't want to hear "can't you just hold me?" or "that's all you care about!" If you've ignored your partner's basic needs for years at a time, you don't deserve to be cuddled. You deserve abandonment. Each and every time you've turned your spouse down (and for some, we're talking tens of thousands of times), you've placed your needs over their's. Every single time. In response to your sustained, abhorent cruelty, your partner doesn't kill you, beat you, or divorce you, they just have the bad manners of touching you in a semi-sexual way. You believe they should react to your years of abuse and inconsideration with restraint and consideration. That's not even logical.
BLOODY DAMN STRAIGHT!
With respect to Cherry, I agree with this 100% I agree with this SO VERY VERY VERY MUCH, I swear poster, if I knew what you looked like, I'd build a 100ft solid Gold statue of you!!!!!
EDIT: TO clarify, Cherry I understand your position.
Mine though, is where my wife sexually cheated on me when we started dating, I still found notes she made of her ex boyfriend after we got married, she rejects me sexually all the time despite me doing everything imaginable to please her (See my thread).
SO, I understand your issue Chrry, but I do agree with the "offending" poster
Are you talking to me? Excuse me if you are.... My H has betrayed me, cheated on me, emotionally and physically beat me, lied to me and has been an outright a$$hole over the first 3 of our 5 years together. I have agreed to reconcile with him and we are on year two. I am asking for his help in this fvcking reconciliation. He's lucky he still has his family in tact, THANKS TO ME.
I wish to fvcking gawd some people would read back stories before they start shouting off at the mouth.
Sorry, can't help you. Your feeling of wanting to reconcile, to me at least, is as alien as Saturn. But let's intellectualize this for a second. Basically, you want DATE your husband. So tell him that, that you're basically just dating. The same way that other couples date.
38Likes
Re: Non sexual touch and sex 
lol He would get hard quickly and there would be something poking me in my butt, and he turns into an octopus and if I say no, he backs off 100%, no snuggling at all, he rolls over on his stomach or his side facing away from me. 
I wanted that. But he didn't. Why not? Was it because we were cooking dinner and he knew there was no chance of sex, so why bother being affectionate with me? 
BLOODY DAMN STRAIGHT! 
