Sex in MarriageSexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.
Love, commitment and dedication mean exactly that you're willing to put your partner's needs ahead of your own. Nobody needs a marriage if they itend to show love only on days they feel like it. Without any further discussion or investigation, I take for granted that any woman I see would be willing to give herself to me if she happened to feel like it. I could get a deeper commitment than that from a prostitute. I love my family and I attend to their needs to the best of my ability regardless of how I happen to feel. It doesn't feel oppressive and I'm not resentful to do it. It's what I promised my wife when I married and it's the job I took on when I decided to be a father. I don't hate my kids because they get hungry. I don't hate my wife if she gets sick, scared, lonely, or horny. These are all normal human needs. If I didn't want to be bothered by others' needs, I should have stayed single. I don't have the right to turn another innocent human into a cold, celibate freak of nature and nobody has the right to turn me into one. Trying to do so is inhuman and just plain evil. If an unexpected illness or accident renders my wife incapable of fulfilling all her promises, I'll roll with it. I'll still expect that she participate in the marriage the best she can considering her limitations. Marriage isn't a form of welfare. It's not winning the lottery. She's not a guest and this aint a resort. She's not baggage or a passenger. She's my partner and she can row, steer, or get out of the canoe.
If someone, prior to marriage, is well aware that they have a low, to nonexistent, sex drive, they shouldn't be getting married. Period. It is an incredibly cruel thing to do, unless you know going in that your spouse likewise has little sexual drive.
I am appalled by the increasingly large amount of sexless couples that feature ONE person who is failing at sexual communications. Again this isn't about people who become LD through some sort of trauma after marriage, but people who go in knowing that they can take or leave sex.
If you get to the point where you spouse is so far down on your "to do" list, literally, than it's time to cut them free so that they don't waste years, and decades, on you. That's time that could be spent finding someone else who truly sees them as a real spouse, and soulmate, not just somebody who gets the scraps you have left over after the rest of your obligations are covered.
Jaquen it may surprise you that I agree to an extent. If you do know up front about massive libido mismatches then that probably should be a huge red flag to call off the wedding.
Unfortunately not everyone can know up front how their libido's can match up. Now I know it seems to be expected these days that all couples have sex, live together, etc. prior to marrying. Not everyone does.
My wife was a virgin when we married. We had huge problems with sex right off the bat (we didn't have sex once during our honeymoon because it was so painful). I didn't think it was right to effectively throw away the woman I loved and had just married days before because of some pains. So we continued over the next year to work on it. It took almost year after marriage before we could have sex at all, that is any penetration whatsoever.
So according to you we should have parted ways. Even though we both were/are very much in love. I will admit there is some cold logic to that at some level. It certainly would have saved me from a lot of pain. On the flip side though, fast forward to now (15 years after our wedding) and we now have 4 kids and we still very much love each other. Yes it's taken us until now to finally have something that resembles what might be a normal sex life.
Still we have had a marriage free of so many other problems talked about on this forum. No money issues. No parenting/children issues to speak of. No affection issues. No EA/PA's.
Our only problem was libido and painful sex. So if we had given up on our marriage because of that, yes it might have led to me getting married to a woman with a higher libido. We'll never know. It suspect it would have devastated my wife, to have the man who loves her throw her away because she can't perform.
What I do know for certain is that I have 4 beautiful and loving children, and wife who is my best friend and we are so very very close. I have a wife who will be my partner when I'm old and grey, provided neither of us dies first. I will have a woman to share and enjoy my twilight years, grandparenting with, many more happy memories....
IDK I don't think it's so cut and dry like you and Unbelievable seem to make it out to be. There is value still in a marriage even when sex drives don't match. There is beauty and happiness there, as well as the pain. Don't most marriages have that though?
Sorry OP we have taken this off on a huge tangent.
Oh and I should say while this is about my life, I won't take it personally in the slightest if you think I made a mistake. It's all good. I'm a big boy and I live with my choices... I chose to stay with my wife, you may not have in the same situation... that would be your choice.
I think the difference browncoat is that your wife didn't give up. Even though there were challenges she still tried and the trying is enough to make a man feel loved and appreciated. If she was unwilling too put in any effort, if she was unable to recognize the importance, wouldn't you have a much different story? There are many LD spouses who just say 'that's your problem I'm perfectly satisfied' which leads to a completely different dynamic.
I think the difference browncoat is that your wife didn't give up. Even though there were challenges she still tried and the trying is enough to make a man feel loved and appreciated. If she was unwilling too put in any effort, if she was unable to recognize the importance, wouldn't you have a much different story? There are many LD spouses who just say 'that's your problem I'm perfectly satisfied' which leads to a completely different dynamic.
You definitely have a point... no doubt about it. I am so very grateful that she really made a point to try and turn things around. Without that... who knows.
I come here every day and read about how to fix my marriage.Been married for 30 years to a LD,Non-Sexual,Self-Center Women.But besides that would not change a thing.Well I read about foreplay does not start in the bedroom with female's.So it made sense to me.So yesterday I started early in the day with a love letter in the morning.A nice call in the afternoon.At 5:00 pm I call her and said lets go out to dinner and maybe we come have a nice night out,And come home and get together.Her answer was sounds great.I could tell when she came home from work she was a bit bitter.I realized once again I put pressure on her to perform that night and of course she does not like pressure about sex.So we had some what of a nice evening.I go to bed at 9:00pm .She does not show up,Blows me off.In the morning its the old she's sound to sleep to the very last minute and jump out of bed and say I'm late gotta go.Well my point is this.Next time I think my foreplay will be Hey want to get laid??? All the 24 hours did was make things worse for the rejection???What I have come to realize is there is no changing someone with lack of desire for sex.They are controll freaks.
The definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing over and over and expect different results.... are you insane?
Reason I ask is because I probably am since I keep thinking my LD wife will change. Just this morning I tried to sneak a kiss with tongue when we woke up.. all she wanted to do was hug. I pushed and ask for a kiss with tongue and she said "oh morning breath" which is the usual response. So I ask "you just don't love me like that do you" and she responded "no". Can't remember the last time I got a long deep french kiss! The day is coming when she will wake up alone...
Unfortunately not everyone can know up front how their libido's can match up. Now I know it seems to be expected these days that all couples have sex, live together, etc. prior to marrying. Not everyone does.
My wife in I were in a long term relation long before we got married. For spiritual reasons, we remained celibate through that relationship for years; and I'm talking less than 10, but far more than 5. And we were truly celibate, not an "everything but penetration" couple. We didn't live together prior to marriage either. So yes, I definitely know what you're talking about here.
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Originally Posted by Browncoat
My wife was a virgin when we married. We had huge problems with sex right off the bat (we didn't have sex once during our honeymoon because it was so painful). I didn't think it was right to effectively throw away the woman I loved and had just married days before because of some pains. So we continued over the next year to work on it. It took almost year after marriage before we could have sex at all, that is any penetration whatsoever.
My wife had only been with one partner prior to marriage, and they had sex a handful of time for one week, and he was on the smaller side. When we finally broke our celibacy on our honeymoon, it was painful for her, we didn't complete penetrative sex, and it took time before sex truly became second nature for us. Again, been here, done that.
The qualifier here, however, is that long before going in both my wife and I, despite our nearly impossible ability to avoid temptation, knew we had incredible chemistry, and both of us had strong libidos. You don't need to have had sex before in order to be in tune with your libido. I personally knew I had a strong, high libido as a very young teen, long before I ever had sex. My wife was the same. Virginity does not preclude knowledge about your sexuality, or the ability to detect sexual chemistry with a potential partner. The first time my wife and I kissed, our worlds exploded. It was literally like every moment you see in the movies, or described in the books. Time stopped. We just knew. As the years rolled on, neither one of us had any fears, or doubts, that we'd have an explosive sex life. We did, and we do.
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Originally Posted by Browncoat
So according to you we should have parted ways. Even though we both were/are very much in love.
Actually no, not "according to" me. I take marriage extremely seriously, and would never suggest divorce lightly. How does your situation remotely fit the criteria I was referring to in the post you quoted? My post was about low drive individuals, with little to no interest in sex, entering into marriage knowing that they have no desire to fulfill their partners sexual-emotional needs. It's also about LD people who are holding onto spouses that they are putting on the bottom of their list. That, to me, is clearly fraud and entrapment.
So unless your wife entered into your marriage knowing full well that she had no intention, or desire, to meet your sexual needs, I fail to understand how your story applies to anything I said.
Your love for your wife, and your dedication, is admirable, but the declaration as a rebuttal to me is unnecessary.
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Originally Posted by Browncoat
I chose to stay with my wife, you may not have in the same situation... that would be your choice.
Nothing has made me even think of leaving my wife, even before she was my wife. But then again, neither my situation, nor apparently yours, applies to my earlier post.
I'd try 168 Hours of foreplay. The results may be better..... Of course the work too is more intense.
And I think mem11363 is full of it. I like his writing, and do agree he as a lot of valid points, but I also think the pressure he places on his wife for sex is unfair and too much.
But if he is your messiah & saviour all the power to you....
Actually no, not "according to" me. I take marriage extremely seriously, and would never suggest divorce lightly. How does your situation remotely fit the criteria I was referring to in the post you quoted? My post was about low drive individuals, with little to no interest in sex, entering into marriage knowing that they have no desire to fulfill their partners sexual-emotional needs. It's also about LD people who are holding onto spouses that they are putting on the bottom of their list. That, to me, is clearly fraud and entrapment.
So unless your wife entered into your marriage knowing full well that she had no intention, or desire, to meet your sexual needs, I fail to understand how your story applies to anything I said.
No she didn't entrap me... that was never her intent. Part of the problem for us too was that I don't think she had a clue what a sex drive looks like. She thought she had one, explained to me that she did. To her that mean: I have masturbated and enjoyed doing it when the mood struck. Unfortunately we found out later that the mood struck 1-2x/month a best.
I was also ignorant as well, I assumed that everyone wanted sex like I did, at least once a day. So a lot of failed communication, ignorance... and really we didn't get good premarital counselling.
My whole take from this, is that for all our kids... all of them will a gift of great premarital counselling on our dime.
I wish more couples went through a high quality counselling program prior to marriage. It would prevent a lot of what we see here on the forums daily. Not all... but a lot of it.
I understand some people's desire to have sex is stronger than their partner's. I don't understand someone who calls themselves a husband or a wife not showing any real interest in meeting their mate's needs. There are things I don't have a burning desire to do but they are important to my wife and my wife is important to me. I make these things a priority. What's hard about this concept? If my wife's needs are not important, then she's not important. If she's not important to me, I'm a fraud if I call myself a husband. I would have to be a sinister, evil waste of skin to just passively watch my spouse suffer for months if I had the ability to relieve her suffering. I don't know how some folks live with themselves.
I was also ignorant as well, I assumed that everyone wanted sex like I did, at least once a day. So a lot of failed communication, ignorance... and really we didn't get good premarital counselling.
My whole take from this, is that for all our kids... all of them will a gift of great premarital counselling on our dime.
I wish more couples went through a high quality counselling program prior to marriage. It would prevent a lot of what we see here on the forums daily. Not all... but a lot of it.
That is a very sound observation, and what insight in regards to looking ahead and helping your children when the time comes for them to inter matrimony. I see that you're a good father as well as husband. What a gift they all are for having you.
We didn't do premarital counseling. There wasn't any need, and that is mainly because we were best friends for such a long time before turning romantic, and then were in a relationship for even longer before marriage, that we'd built a very strong foundation of communication. Counseling helps couples to think about questions and issues to address that many do not, or are uncomfortable approaching. But it's imperative to be open, free, and as honest as possible when entering a lifetime commitment such as this.
I'm glad you guys are finding a way to survive, and even thrive, despite your issues.
I'm off on a Mediterranean cruise (no kids for the first time over 4 days in 19 years) and as I see it I have about 768 hours of foreplay prior...... So what???? All you people going on and on about sex. Yes my wife thinks I'm obsessed and sees this site up on the computer. I tell her I am nowhere near as obsessive as compared to others posting and she should be thrilled. We have a good sex life as everything works properly, we still enjoy each others company, look younger then our ages and are together still after 26 odd years.....
And yes we do argue about sex as I want it more (and convinced she'd like it too, but will only push so much and not play the games like Mem11363 and other advocate on this site).... But heck if we can get close to 1X/wk and come holidays ramp it up, there are more important things in life to worry about.......
I have been doing these things off and on for 24 years. I get the same response as you do.
Of course you do and the bolded above is why.
This isn`t a game, it`s not a "play", making your wife hot for you is a way of life.
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She takes it as pressure to have sex.
Because it is.
If it was sincere it wouldn`t be "off & on" it`d be all the time whether sex was even a possibility or not.
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She never initiates anything that could be construed as 'foreplay', and if I do it, she feels pressure. If I don't do it, then I am not romantic. There is no pleasing her.
Then there is this possibility as well.
Sometimes it really doesn`t matter what you do.
But still, I wonder, she wasn`t always like this was she?
If it's objectionable for a wife to feel "pressured" to have sex against her natural inclination doesn't it stand to reason that it's equally objectionable for a wife to make her man feel "pressured" to behave as a sexless, loveless, zombie against his natural inclination? I would think the latter would be far worse. Sex is a universally expected condition of marriage. Abstinence isn't.
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Re: 24 Hours of Foreplay 
