Sex in MarriageSexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.
My point is, a homosexual is NOT a thieve. Nor an addict. A homosexual very likely will remain homosexual all his or her life.
The sins are different. That is true. That doesn't mean the sins aren't real. An adulterer isn't a thief. But they're both sinners.
And yes, a homosexual may remain so all his life. Just as an addict may remain an addict. Does that mean we should encourage addicts to get high? Just because a person has a predilection for a certain sin, you believe we should encourage it? I disagree.
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Originally Posted by jennifer1986
And we are calling this a SIN. I do not agree.
I'm not calling it a sin. The Bible calls it a sin. Actually, the Bible refers to it as an abomination to the Lord.
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Originally Posted by jennifer1986
I am not throwing my Bible in the trash, but yes, I do believe it's more important to talk to God than quoting Bible. I can probably quote my verses as well as most of you. Of course it's hard to hear God, but I'd rather be trying hard on that then just holding up the 1 KG book.
If you are a true prophet, then I'm thrilled for you. Of course, I'm not aware of many prophets who encouraged people to ignore Scripture. I think those would qualify as false prophets.
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Originally Posted by jennifer1986
If Peter, who was actually WITH God when he was here, died for God, blah blah blah...needed God to tell him THRICE that the Gentiles were now accepted before he changed his view, then we need to be 100000 more times patient to hear what God has to say to each of us.
That's true. All of us have heard God's word and ignored it. The difference between us is that I'm not actively encouraging people to ignore God's will. I think we should encourage people to heed God's will.
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Originally Posted by jennifer1986
My point is simple: rigid rules have done many people harm.
Rigid adherence to foolish rules has done harm. Rigid adherence to wise rules, such as no adultery or no murder, is actually very beneficial. I think the Bible has many more wise rules than foolish ones.
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Originally Posted by jennifer1986
Everyone is different and precious in God's eyes, and no one should tell anyone else what to do or not to do.
Everyone is precious. But I think God has the right to lay down rules. And I think the Church has the obligation to encourage people to follow them. I know it's sometimes hard to follow rules. And it would be much easier if we all just rationalize our sins away. But it doesn't make it right.
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Originally Posted by jennifer1986
Everyone is so freaking out about people doing what they like without rules. But if you have God, you do not need RULES.
If that's true, then why did God give us rules? In fact, he even went so far as to give us COMMANDMENTS. You think he actually gave us the Ten Suggestions?
In point of fact, NO words in the Bible are "literally the word of god," as they were written by human beings two millennia ago. In that time, they have been translated, retranslated, interpreted and reinterpreted time and again, with each new interpretation sponsored by a person or group with their own agenda to further. And that's without even considering the editing process that went into the initial compilation of the writings that came to be collectively known as the Bible.
That's true. But it doesn't necessarily mean that the meaning has been corrupted. If you receive a letter that was dictated, do you ignore it because it could be inaccurate? I wouldn't.
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Originally Posted by Grayson
So, basically, the church today needs to follow the mold of the OT deity: angry, petty, vengeful, and genocidal to any who dare think differently. As opposed to the NT deity: needy, desperate for devotion, and at least paying lip service to embracing different ideas and beliefs to get that following it so craves. Posted via Mobile Device
You hate God and don't understand the Bible. That's fine. It's your right.
I'm saying the Church needs to stand up for righteousness. Disapprove of sin. If a woman in the congregation wants to get married for the 5th time because her first four husbands didn't make her every dream come true, then tell her that the Church believes in lifetime marriage and she should use a judge rather than a preacher.
Insist on having people who strive to live a holy life as pastors. That means no unrepentant adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, molesters, or other sinners qualify to lead a congregation.
We should strive to have a Church consistent with the teachings of Christ. We should welcome sinners, tell them God loves them, and tell them to sin no more. We should absolutely not welcome sinners, tell them they're not actually sinners because there's no such thing as sin, and tell them that everyone goes to Heaven, so don't worry about reforming yourself. That is exactly the opposite of Christ's teachings.
it doesn't matter what I believe is sin and what I think is ok. I didn't create the universe so I don't get to make the rules. If I just want something to make me feel better, I'd pick a jacuzzi and not a religion.
If that's true, then why did God give us rules? In fact, he even went so far as to give us COMMANDMENTS. You think he actually gave us the Ten Suggestions?
That's actually an interesting discussion in its own rite. As the Jewish half in a Jewish/Christian marriage, it's an argument our families get into fairly often
I too am a Christian, and find myself thinking about these things and what extremes to take. Right now, my thought is God created us, so he understands our urges and desires. I don't believe that means to run wild and frolic by having orgies, but at its core, if you strip away everything, our sole purpose for being here is to have SEX and repopulate.
There is even a verse in the bible that states that it's better to have sex than to burn with passion, because that passion will eat you alive.
I guess what I'm saying is, while I understand waiting for marriage, I think we might take it a bit too far in the name of scripture sometimes. I just don't think waiting for years to kiss your husband or wife is what got intended or would want for us.
When a person can create a universe, they will be free to set rules as they see fit. If I got to decide what's right and wrong and what God intends and what He doesn't, then I'd actually be substituted my will for His and making myself god. I'm only responsible for doing what I'm told the best way I can. It'd seem pretty fanatical to build a huge boat and load it with animals to save the world. It'd seem pretty audacious to believe you could tell a dead person to rise or to tell a blind person to see or a cripple to walk. Human logic would dictate that none of that would have made sense. God isn't human and He isn't bound by some psychologist's idea of which human behaviors can be changed. He says "all things are possible".
unbelievable, if it were as simple as that people wouldn't be debating it.
The Bible is complicated! 'inspired,' 'inerrant' or not, it's been compiled by dozens of authors who span hundreds to thousands of years, using highly nuanced language that is difficult to translate. The canon of scripture itself has been debated over centuries.. there are people who wanted to exclude James or Song of Songs, for various reasons. And there are plenty of other Gospels that didn't get included, for other reasons.
There is always the question of, who is writing, who is the original intended recipient, what differences and similarities exist between their world and today's world? Which teachings are universal, and what is relegated to a certain culture?
In Leviticus, if a man rapes a woman, she has to marry him. if he took her virginity his punishment is that he has to compensate her parents. In Joshua, a man's entire household - his children, wife, servants, etc. - is put to death because he kept some of the battle-loot for himself. Paul says that women shouldn't speak up in church, and that men shouldn't have long hair.
In today's world, what are we supposed to make of these things? You can say we can't pick and choose which teachings to follow or not follow, but of course we do!
The criteria you use to decide which scriptures are applicable... that is a subject of much debate.
Of course God gets to decide what's right and wrong. But he hasn't made it so easy to read all the signs.
Only God can judge. Nobody is in a position to point fingers at anyone else because we are all sinners.
I feel that Christians are held to a higher moral standard in our society. That is why so many people are bothered by the ones who are very hypocritical and duplicitous. Of course, Christians are just imperfect human beings who make mistakes.
That's true. But it doesn't necessarily mean that the meaning has been corrupted. If you receive a letter that was dictated, do you ignore it because it could be inaccurate? I wouldn't.
If the letter was dictated in, say, French, passed on to someone who translated it to Spanish, who then passed it on to someone who translated it into Chinese, who then passed it back to someone else who translated it back into French who then passed it on to someone to translate into English before it made its way to me, then yes...the odds of the original content and meaning getting lost in those translations and interpretations are pretty high.
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You hate God and don't understand the Bible. That's fine. It's your right.
I don't hate "God" any more than any other fictional character. And I understand the Bible just fine. It's a great compilation of fable, allegory and analogy serving as an exploration of the unexplained and an examination of humankind. Much like the mythology of the ancient Greeks, the Norsemen and the works of Aesop. Posted via Mobile Device
Doesn't it also refer to eating shellfish as an abomination? Posted via Mobile Device
An abomination to man. Not to the Lord. Although Acts clarified that Gentiles aren't bound by this law. Although they are obligated to abstain from sexual immorality. Sorry.
It's going to be hard to reach any kind of consensus here because there are so many different starting points. The bible is inspired and taken literally; the bible some good ideas; God is real; there's no God; flying spaghetti monster... people tend to already have their minds made up.
Playing Scripture ping-pong really doesn't' accomplish much, unless both people already agree on its validity. Otherwise you're debating the validity and not the interpretation.
If the letter was dictated in, say, French, passed on to someone who translated it to Spanish, who then passed it on to someone who translated it into Chinese, who then passed it back to someone else who translated it back into French who then passed it on to someone to translate into English before it made its way to me, then yes...the odds of the original content and meaning getting lost in those translations and interpretations are pretty high.
The Old Testament has very few translation issues. I grant that the most popular version of the New Testament (KJV) was translated from Greek, to Latin, to English. And there are some mistakes. But the mistakes tend to be fairly minor. For example, when Jesus told the adulteress to sin no more, the original Greek or Hebrew writings don't translate to "keep sinning." That would be a major change that would be relevant to this discussion. Arguing that the KJV translators missed a few commas or changed an "or" to an "and" may be academically interesting. But, it isn't really relevant.
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Originally Posted by Grayson
I don't hate "God" any more than any other fictional character. And I understand the Bible just fine. It's a great compilation of fable, allegory and analogy serving as an exploration of the unexplained and an examination of humankind. Much like the mythology of the ancient Greeks, the Norsemen and the works of Aesop. Posted via Mobile Device
We just have different religions. I believe that a supernatural God created life. You believe that inert chemicals magically created life. Po-tay-to, po-tah-to.
I'm really kind of torn about it. people got married so much sooner back then. It's one thing to tell kids to wait til they get married, but staying a v through your 20s-30s? That's tough.
This. People were getting married at 15 and 16 in those days. Not making excuses, but again, I don't think being a 40-year-old virgin is in God's plan for anyone.
This. People were getting married at 15 and 16 in those days. Not making excuses, but again, I don't think being a 40-year-old virgin is in God's plan for anyone.
Add to it the evidence that many girls (and some boys) are hitting puberty earlier than even 50 years ago (probably due to improved nutrition). It is a much different task to remain a virgin for a year or two then to do so for 10-15 years.
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Re: Gimme a break...sorry I am so not spiritual 
