Sex in MarriageSexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.
The more I think about this, the more I have to argue. Wouldn't that just be childish? That you would only perform certain acts or even perform at all because the other spouse did? So you're only being nice because they were? That you're only giving him a BJ because he ate you out? Does that not seem a little childish?
Shouldn't it be more about pleasing the other person because it pleases you rather than because you're just reciprocating?
Of course if it's never reciprocated is a whole different issue.
Well, your disclaimer at the end is precisely the problem. The people who have these issues, IMO, typically see one partner who has little or zero interest in sex. Saying "no oral for me = none for you" or something else strictly sexual gets no response because it is not valued.
Sex acts are optional. Tasks around the house are not. If I don't do a sexual act, it doesn't leave work for someone else to do. If I don't do housework, it does. I think what you propose is manipulative and not equivalent.
But, essential vs. non-essential is a narrow way to look at the issue. As you have defined it, sex in its entirety is not essential. And precisely that argument is used by LD / ND people to deny sex to their spouses.
What if you took a broader "satisfaction" based view towards this issue? If you tell your spouse essentially "sex is something I value higher. If you do not put in the effort I expect you to sacrifice and inconvenience yourself commensurately".
Unless the task is optional and not necessary then it wouldn't be fair. For example, anal sex doesn't have to be done. The dishes do. If the husband decided to refuse to do the dishes then the wife would have to do them. If the wife refuses anal sex, it's not leaving anything undone that is an absolute must. There are things I'd like my husband to do in bed that he won't but that doesn't mean I will refuse to cook dinner. It might mean I am less likely to be willing to do something extra for him that is optional, like buy him a bottle of wine that night, because that is a favor that makes no difference if it is done or not.
Sex acts are optional. Tasks around the house are not. If I don't do a sexual act, it doesn't leave work for someone else to do. If I don't do housework, it does. I think what you propose is manipulative and not equivalent.
The way it works more in my marriage is that my husband isn't into sex as adventurous as I would like it, I don't feel motivated as often so he ends up with less sex by default. He won't make the effort to try something new, if I'm tired I don't feel the same level of obligation to make an effort to do something to please him. Apples with apples.
Interesting idea... But tasks around the house can be farmed out to people outside the house, like hiring a maid or lawn service... You could try that with the sex stuff as well, I guess.
And your last paragraph about him getting less sex than he'd like isn't really useful, because I'm guessing the OP's wife would cheerfully go with less sex. That's the problem with low drive spouses... "Punishing" them by withholding intimacy is actually rewarding them. It's like suspending a teenager from school because they've skipped too many classes.
If you want to do anything, start cutting back on the work you do around the house until you can get her to go to a sex therapist. Work on WHY she doesn't want to have sex with you.
But I'd be willing to bet if you tried making it as transactional with someone like them as you describe in your original post, you'd get shut down so fast your head would spin.
I think you're missing the point PBear.
I am a strong proponent of the "pull back", "do the 180", or whatever you want to call it, as are many others here on TAM.
What you are missing is that the "transactional" nature of sex generally comes AFTER sex has been shut down (or at least driven down to a very low level). It generally is a last attempt to drive a change in a poor relationship dynamic.
Or, to look at it differently, it is generally a case of "the sex is or might as well be non-existant, so what do I have to lose?" It is not something done lightly, as in "I did not get a BJ this time so I'm going to drop a hint and let her pump her own gas". Your comment tends to imply that this is done rather lightly out of retribution or to "train" your partner.
What I have seen and learned over 20 years is there is always a bleed over, or overflow. Picture a group of cups. Like the dolls that fit inside one another. This cup is half full, this one is three quarters full.,,and so on.
Of course there is bleed-over. Isn't that the concept behind the advice to pay more attention outside the bedroom to get more inside the bedroom?
To anyone who says that there should be no bleed-over: would you agree that if some is a complete slob, provides no domestic support, lets the kids run wild and disrespect you, etc. that person should still be greeted enthusiastically in the bedroom? After all, we are talking about non-sexual shortcomings, right?
I am a strong proponent of the "pull back", "do the 180", or whatever you want to call it, as are many others here on TAM.
What you are missing is that the "transactional" nature of sex generally comes AFTER sex has been shut down (or at least driven down to a very low level). It generally is a last attempt to drive a change in a poor relationship dynamic.
Or, to look at it differently, it is generally a case of "the sex is or might as well be non-existant, so what do I have to lose?" It is not something done lightly, as in "I did not get a BJ this time so I'm going to drop a hint and let her pump her own gas". Your comment tends to imply that this is done rather lightly out of retribution or to "train" your partner.
Well, the OP wasn't complaining of the frequency of sex, but that his (assuming he's make here) wife wasn't adventurous enough.
In any case, I'll stand by my thought that starting to relate a blow job to mowing the lawn is likely to make things worse, not better. A better approach would be looking at things like the MMSL and NMMNG. But I'll also stick with my theory that sometimes, there is no magic solution. The other person isn't into sex, has no desire to meet their partner's needs, and they'd be just as happy with a roommate who pays half the rent and utilities on time. And it's up to the higher drive spouse to decide if that's acceptable, because it ain't gonna change.
I think that's a very bad idea. I know for me, my first reaction would be anger that he would equate doing the dishes with having sex. My second reaction would be passive-aggressiveness. I would consent to having sex but would just lay there to spite him. I'm not saying either of these behaviors are mature or good, but I know my personality and that's what I would have done when I was entrenched in my own sexless life.
I don't know what would have worked. I think I had to evolve as a human being. Being a mother made me less selfish. I learned how to give of myself. I grew up in a really messed up house with a single mother who never thought of anyone unless they could serve her in some way. I learned that. It took years of my husband's gentle patience and selfless giving for me to see what true love looked like. It then took being a mother to learn how to give selflessly myself. Now that I know how good it feels to truly love someone with all my heart and give of myself completely, I could never go back to that selfish lifestyle.
From much reading I have discovered that men feel loved through sex. Women often feel loved through listening, hugging, kissing, helping with chores, etc... So, the purpose is not to truly equal sex to chores...it is to take something away from the wife...that she finds as a message of love...just like bland sex/or declining certain acts takes the feeling of love and acceptance away from the husband. Let's take the oral/anal out of the equation. What if the husband simply wants passionate sex, but the wife lays there "like a knot on a log"? Then, would taking away something that she strongly desires be a message or equivalent act?
Click,
Then take away a physical act she likes such as back rubs, hand holding, kisses on the neck etc
Will someone please explain to me how sitting around watching your wife pick up after you is supposed to increase her sexual attraction? Wouldn't she see you as a 2 yr-old with a temper tantrum? Or think you are using her as indentured servant?
Why not start with talking to her. Only this time don't talk about sex, may seem like me me me when it should really be we we we. Rememebr you are in a marriage, she is your wife a woman you love and the relationship is about both of you. This is not about bj and anal for you.
I can tell you for that your wife does not look at the relationship in terms of sex acts for you. Do you know f she has any dissatisfactions in the marriage? You might how some interest in what is going on with her that may have led to a disconnect.
If she is not forthcoming then tell her your unhappy and you want to go to MC. Make sure to go to someone who is well versed in marital problems and sexual problems.
If that does not work you may have to do the ultimate and divorce after exhausting all remedies. This process will not give you the instant solution you are looking for it will take time and effort.
Do you love your wife enough to take the initiative, time and effort to make sure the issue is not something in the relationship that is fixable? Even if things don't work out, you at lest acquire skills for your next relationship.
Oh and stop watching porn. It warps your view of sex. I think you will be much happier.
I have read a lot of posts on "talk about marriage" regarding lack of sex or a spouse that is limited in sexual actions.
I feel that sex and all other marital duties (clean house, cook, mow lawn, etc...) are all of equal value.
So, what if... What if wife says "NO" to certain sexual actions (oral, anal, etc...), but the husband desires to perform those actions? What if the husband that is declined certain sexual acts says "NO" to the daily duties that the other spouse desires (help around the house, pay bills, etc...)? What if each time the wife requests a specific daily duty around the home to be performed...and the spouse says "NO" verbally the same way that the wife says "NO" in bed? What if the husband does the ultimate basics around the home?
Wouldn't that be fair?
No, it wouldnt. UNLESS, she was holding out the sex altogether.
And then you have to find out WHY.
But to perform specific sex acts such as oral, anal, etc, is something that should have been discussed BEFORE marriage.
Did you guys have oral and or anal while dating? If so then why has it stopped?
You think this will make her want to give him enthusiastic anal and bj?
Have you tried it?
Actually, yes and have had some success with it.
My issue with my wife has been mostly frequency issues. When I started to not do some of the things she liked, she started to sense somthing was off and she even intiated one evening a few weeks ago (quite unusual)
We've set time aside this weekend for some talking and she'll find out from me my issues and I'll listen to any she's has
Wow. Since when did sex become a tit for tat exercise? I understand your frustration, but I think that that attitude would backfire. If my husband felt like he wasn't getting enough sex, I hope he would communicate that to me instead of acting out like a child. Sex loses its beauty when it becomes all about meeting your needs and getting what you want out of it.
Wow. Since when did sex become a tit for tat exercise? I understand your frustration, but I think that that attitude would backfire. If my husband felt like he wasn't getting enough sex, I hope he would communicate that to me instead of acting out like a child. Sex loses its beauty when it becomes all about meeting your needs and getting what you want out of it.
Communication should be the first step. Unfortunately, all to often it does not work. A HD partner complains, but continues to do all the nice things done previously, so the LD partner receives a mixed message - the words are saying it is a problem but the actions are saying it is not really a big deal. Human nature being what it is, the LD partner picks the message they want to hear (it is not really a big deal) and does not adjust.
I would never advocate trading a chore for a sexual favor. I would also not advocate it for specific acts in the bedroom. That will result in bad things for a marriage. But where the LD spouse is not willing to adjust or compromise, I do think that the HD turning things down, not doing everything previously done for the LD, and focusing more on themselves while letting the LD know why, is a reasonable reaction.
I have read a lot of posts on "talk about marriage" regarding lack of sex or a spouse that is limited in sexual actions.
I feel that sex and all other marital duties (clean house, cook, mow lawn, etc...) are all of equal value.
So, what if... What if wife says "NO" to certain sexual actions (oral, anal, etc...), but the husband desires to perform those actions? What if the husband that is declined certain sexual acts says "NO" to the daily duties that the other spouse desires (help around the house, pay bills, etc...)? What if each time the wife requests a specific daily duty around the home to be performed...and the spouse says "NO" verbally the same way that the wife says "NO" in bed? What if the husband does the ultimate basics around the home?
Wouldn't that be fair?
For starters, if sex is considered a "duty" by my spouse, I'd just as soon do without. It's supposed to be something that BOTH parties enjoy, otherwise it's just sympathy and that's pathetic IMO.
And what about guys who cook, clean, do laundry, go to work, and STILL get told NO?
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Re: So what if... 
