I appreciate the time and in depth thought you put into this post and for presenting a different angle. Like I said, I am trying to learn. So, are you saying that sex for some healthy women can actually be uncomfortable or just blah?
I'm saying sex can be blah, yes, but that's not all (explained next). I'm not talking about discomfort. That would be a different subject.
Good points. As for the pleasure, the O is certainly the climax of the act, but honestly, I didn't want sex just for the O. When I fantasized about sex, I actually didn't think as much about the O as i did getting there. I enjoyed the sharing of bodies, the playfulness, the intimacy of it all, unlike some things that are done strictly for the direct physical pleasure. Like getting a professional massage for the direct pleasure. I wouldn't care how the person looked, dressed, or whether candles were lit, I would just want the pleasure of how it felt in the shoulders and back, but with sex, I liked the entire process; my body is just in a different mode.
Yep, getting there is a lot of fun because it feels good, but not for all women. It feels good to a woman who is with a man who can make getting there feel good. Like I said, we women derive the pleasure from something different (pressure) than men derive the pleasure (friction). Therefore, if she doesn't receive the pressure to her erogenous zones (her G-spot and/or her A-spots), intercourse isn't pleasurable for her even though the in and out motion is a source of consistant pleasure for men. In a lot of cases, a woman still likes intercouse because there is still SOME pressure although not intentionally applied. Also in a lot of cases, women still like intercourse mainly because we enjoy HIS pleasure and pleasing him. One thing I have never been able to answer is why I so thoroughly enjoy his pleasure, especially when he cums. His orgasms feel astoundingly good to me. But, alas, there are a lot of women who get no pleasure at all from intercourse. I'm talking about those whose husband does not give her any pleasure during intercourse.
My x was one who didn't climax through intercourse, but I always gave her clit stimulation with hands and orally, which she seemed to love. She also seemed to enjoy intercourse even though she didn't climax. There were times when I was giving clit stimulation and she would say, "I want to feel you inside me."
I hope you won't mind my response but since our discourse is for your edification, I won't refrain from comment. Please take no offense.
You speak of the pleasure of intercourse but state here that your ex didn't climax through intercourse. Would you want sex all the time without climax? Yes, getting there feels good, but what if you never got there? How would you feel? Every woman who does not have vaginal orgasms feel exactly that way......even if she still enjoys intercourse. The climax for them is his climax, as I explained how wonderful his orgasm feels. Still, it would be nice if she experienced a climax of the work and good feelings she put into and derived from the session, like you do. That she didn't orgasm doesn't mean she couldn't or didn't want to. It only means she didn't, and there is a sense of emptiness that accompanies. Like you stated of your ex, a lot of men have the same to confess.....and so do a lot of women. In fact, there are women who actually think they "cannot orgasm during intercourse" (in quotes because many have said it), but they know it would be nice if they did. I think every woman can, or practically every woman, if she and/or her man knew how to make her.
That's one thing that I have noticed on this forum is that a lot of women do it because they enjoy pleasing their man, but she didn't seem to feel this way. I'm sure there were times she may have done it to please me, but it wasn't often. She didn't feel it was important to please me sexually. She even seemed puzzled that i was in the mood a lot.
I will guess that your ex was young and rather inexperienced. I will venture to say most women don't understand why their boyfriend/husband wants sex so often. I really think boards like this are the only reason women become enlightened. I was like your ex with my first husband. I didn't like him always wanting sex. I felt used, taken for granted, and objectified. It was like he expected me to have sex with him as if it was supposed to since I was his wife and just because I was there. Were I not there, he wouldn't be having sex because I was his first. I really hate there is such divide between men and woman a lot of times. I can't explain it and have no solution because I abhor anyone saying or thinking women should "just do it."
I honestly believe I did rock her world, especially at times. There were times when she would have an orgasm and request more until she had two or three. So, I believe she did experience pleasure. But it didn't matter if we appeared to melt the paint off the bedroom walls, it still didn't change the frequency. I guess you'll just have to take my word for it that she did feel some pleasure once we were there, but obviously i can't say how she felt, only she knows. I guess that's the big puzzle for me, she seemed to enjoy it once there, but that didn't make her want it more often.
Again, please take no offense. If she didn't have vaginal orgasms, you didn't rock her world. That doesn't mean her orgasms were not rocking, as I'm sure they were. And, it was good of you to please her in that manner and care about her pleasure. But, it's not what "rock her world" means because she didn't have the entire experience.
Again, I guess you will just have to take my word for it, but I don't think it's her personality to fake it, nor do i think she could have faked it well. The way she acted during orgasm would have embarrassed her to fake.
I also believe that if it was uncomfortable for her, she would have mentioned it. She knew me, and if she wanted to get out of sex, telling me there were problems would have made me understand her lack of desire rather than acting like she was exploding with pleasure.
I'm not trying to argue any of your points, but just presenting my reaction concerning my x wife. I have really enjoyed and learned from you post and appreciate it.
I truly do believe she loved me, and the fact that I loved her made me want her.
I have no doubt she loved you and enjoyed sex with you. When talking about faking, it doesn't necessarily apply to orgasm. If a woman doesn't enjoy intercourse, she fakes it like she does enjoy it because she wants him to enjoy her. I'm not talking about you and your ex. I'm just saying in general.
Another thing is the emptiness and what I explained before about a woman not being all that enthused to do something they get nothing out of. I'm not saying your wife didn't enjoy intercourse. I'm saying she felt there was or should be more than she was getting out of it. I was like that with my first husband. Like I said, we were both inexperienced and knew nothing about my body and pleasing me. We didn't even know that women orgasm. All I knew was that I was always left feeling like there should be more to this. I had no idea what it was supposed to be, what it should be, or what it could be. I was just left empty.
After my divorce, I began dating a guy who knew more than I (and my ex) knew and taught me a lot about my body. After orgasming for the first time by clitoral (orally) stimulation, I saw what I was missing. I enjoyed intercourse with him immensely because it felt good but still got nothing out of it. So, I began to think intercourse was just for men and truly resented that feeling. It's terrible for a woman to feel her purpose is only to serve his purpose. Once I experienced orgasm during intercourse, I didn't feel that way anymore, but a lot of women are left feeling empty even though sex does feel good.
Please expand, I would like to read what you think.
I didn't want to get into that for a number of reasons. One is that there were a some references already made to the affects/effects of lack of attention and being abused/mistreated, so there was no point in me adding to that. Another reason I didn't want to is that there is no way I could possibly think of all the things guys do and say that turn women off. I can tell you my first husband almost always made me regret having sex with him. Being something so intimate and personal, a woman needs to believe her man respects her and appreciates her. When he said something assinine, I immediately regretted the night before until I didn't want to have sex with him anymore and left at my first opportunity. Respect is everything to me.
I once knew a guy who made his girlfriend the butt of his jokes whenever they were among friends/family I don't know what he derived from putting her down like that except to make himself look good at her expense.
Those are personal (what he does to her person) ways men turn women off, and there are more, I'm sure. It behooves you to understand why it is a lot of women don't want to do something that feels so good. It behooves me to understand why so many men treat their girlfriend/wife like crap and expect her to want to have sex with him. What I REALLY will never understand are the women who still have sex with and stay married to men who treat them like crap.
There can also be things about a man (who he is), that turn women off. On the first page of your responses, a woman mentioned she can't stand for a guy to be a doormat. I'm the same way, and that was a really good example that I would never have thought to present here.
Another turnoff for me is a guy who is a superior know-it-all and just argues pointlessly just to make me wrong.....even though he is not right. The only reason I have the presence of mind to mention it here is that I just read portions of a thread that reminded me of that kind of guy - entirely closed-minded and superior. Don't know if you have followed this thread
, but the guy I'm talking about refuses to believe everyone telling him the female ejaculate is not urine and giving their reasons for being certain of their position.
I'm an intelligent woman who enjoys a good debate, but I would never marry the kind of guy in that thread, and we'd probably have sex exactly once LOL. His argument is based in neither logic nor fact. He's just maintaining his point because no one can answer what he considers the only logical question of the absense of a reservoir organ. Therefore, since there is no such organ, then the female ejactuate can only be urine. My question is: Who said there HAS to be a reservoir? It is absolutely possible the ejaculate is not stored but builds during or is produced and released at orgasm. I know it is not urine, and one of the reasons I know is that a woman cannot (surely I cannot) urinate that much that many times within such a short frame of time, yet I have as many (multiple) orgasms as my husband and I permit. Plus, I still have to use the bathroom after sex, like most or at least a lot of women do. Another reason I know is that it isn't possible for me to urinate during intercourse (believe me, I tried very hard with a boyfriend who wanted me to....kinky I know LOL), but I do ejaculate during intercourse. And, there are all the reasons everyone gave him in the thread.
As I pointed out to you in this thread, it is neither fair nor accurate to compare women with men, but he is also doing that. He refuses to entertain any possibility that a woman's ejaculate is not urine because there exists no organ in the woman's body to hold it (like men's semen is stored) prior to release. I didn't ask him but will ask you, southbound: Is there some book that says women are like men? I knew a guy like him - a guy who made me wrong no matter what I said and despite the subject matter - a guy who actually tried to convince me that based on his superior logic, he knew more about childbirth than me - a woman who was both studied and experienced in childbirth. What a hoot these guys!