Homemaker_Numero_Uno

and do me ever think about sex without it being a fantasy?

I was talking to a friend today about sex and he asked about fantasies and I explained to him that since my fantasy is being in a trusting relationship while being able to get it on and enjoy myself (and this hasn't always been a fantasy, but it did get derailed in traumatic and sad fashion...) I didn't have a specific fantasy.

I guess if I had to choose to say something, my fantasy would be to be the woman who could be counted on to deliver the fantasies of the guy of my fantasies, so far as they don't involve actual third (or fourth, fifth, etc. parties) and are not violent or hurtful in nature (physically or emotionally.) And to be friends and lovers (exclusively.)

But the whole discussion made me realize how much of a gap there is in understanding between men and women. Of course, all people are different, but I felt strange about not having any specific fantasies that weren't based in say real settings. My fantasy is to be the fantasy and make a nice guy friend real happy while being comfortable in the relationship both in and out of bed (and places in between.)

Does a guy always think of sex as a sort of driving need or in a fantasy way, or does a guy sometimes think of sex as a means to increased intimacy, i.e. for the feeling of being close and loving as well, or is fantasy fulfilment equivalent to being close and loving?

Or is it all just all over the place?

I have quite a few guy friends and I'm not stupid about what is really going on sometimes (not always, but sometimes) when a compliment is given. I get that guys fantasize. I just want to know more about how guys can fantasize and also get out of that mode sometimes either still in a sexual context or out. Like if they've been having fantasies about you because you spend time with them in a boy-girl setting or a conversation, etc. then how do you start a relationship if part of the driving force is them being motivated to have a chance to work out their fantasies? How much does that really factor into a guy's relationship choice?

I think I'm really uneducated about the nature of fantasies that are shared between real people and what percentage of relationship life that they would occupy, on average...I don't think I would be comfortable in a relationship that had only fantasy-based sex. Pretty much what I told my boyfriend when we got together was to calm down, there would be time for that in future, don't try to do everything at once, buddy. But then he had a brain hemorrhage so that all got derailed. I don't even see him any more, his guardian removed him to another state, so we can't even talk about it and so far as I know there is no relationship since he hasn't managed to contact me, not sure if it's a factor of his rehabilitation or his sister being his guardian and censoring his relationships (for his best interest, or not, not my business...what I know is I don't see him or hear from him any more.)

So this is a discussion I had with one of his buddies who is now my buddy but I happen to know he thinks I'm hot. lol. Because neither of us is doing anything, the current trend is to sit around and talk about it after kayaking. Probably it is driving him nuts.


fyi I am not into casual sex, for me my parameters are that I only enjoy it in trusting committed relationship...which for me have been hard to come by...but then there are issues of fantasies. Maybe I just need the QTIP 'tip' (QTIP = Quit Taking It Personally.)

lamaga

I dunno, I'm female and I have sexual fantasies.

Gaia

^^^This... is what I'm with... There really isn't a gap between a man or womans way of thinking... not imo. It's all individual based as your case proves. For me.. sexual fantasies are just the spice of a relationship, something that adds a bit more adventure to it. I am female as well and i sure as hell have fantasies I'd love to try out with my husband. Mine happen to be bondage related whereas my hubbys happens to deal with another category.

Now... is this what you mean by fantasies? Sexual fantasies? Or... do you mean something else?

Homemaker_Numero_Uno

OK, I'd like to know about that too. My fantasies aren't specific like my guy friends' tend to be. I'm thinking because it doesn't take much to get me going if I feel like going at it, just the thought of it is fantasy enough, or I just fantasize about being the fantasy, and it's not a fantasy when I am doing that, lol, since I am.

Or, if your fantasy is about being able to have your fantasies met, when you get to that fantasy it kind of folds up on itself.

Homemaker_Numero_Uno

That is what I mean. I think I might have a habit of being fantasy deficient because I was codependent and in abusive relationships for so long. So finally given a chance to have fantasies, that WAS my fantasy. So it's not until now that I realized I didn't have any, other than being in a relationship where I could have them. lol. I am having trouble getting out of I guess codependent fantasy thinking. Also from abusive relationship, I censored a lot of sexual thoughts that came into my mind day to day because ex would accuse me of wanting to have sex with every guy I met in day to day life on regular basis....now I think I don't even think about sex when I talk with guys...except if I am actually sitting around talking to them about sex while keeping my clothes on in a public place. This is just wrong. I am 48, and I want to find a way to remedy it.

So asking friends here at TAM who can shed some light on this subject for me. My therapist has said I'm detached, just in general, but I think I'm doing a pretty good job these days of connecting with people in general, more and more. Maybe it's this missing cognitive piece that adds flirt or whatever to your day to day, that I've completely buried somewhere and is short circuiting the 'connect' and leading to 'disconnected'. (My therapist is actually sort of a cold fish, say, when it comes to dressing...shall we say government drab? But to be honest she probably sees mostly male patients with serious concerns as it's a VA hospital and I am probably a rare woman in her client base.) I feel like if I entertain fantasies there is some sort of energy connected to them that leads to trouble, as energy that strong could be felt by others (and I lived in a male world for a while as I needed to earn a living after being abandoned by parents at 17 so joined the military and had nothing else but that...in 1983 there were fewer females I think, and I guess in terms of attractiveness maybe a lot less than I see now, or got the impression of from my exhusband's unit gatherings) I think too as a kid being sexually abused there is some kind of subliminal effort to turn off sex appeal. Well, apparently that has backfired on me as a lot of guys now LIKE that approachability when you're not chasing them down and trying to use sex appeal to attract them but just :-o talking to them about every day stuff (and fantasies and movies about fantasies...) Plus at 48 I have been told I am hot. So the deck is stacked. The guys I do like and would consider giving a shot are not real attractive so the fantasy is really more about feelings and affect than about physical stuff, I can't go there because physically, as my landlord says, 'when guys get older we are just all ugly as sh*t' ... I have an attraction to possible partners based on the relationship, and that drives the desire to be intimate as a matter of being sexual in the first place. It's not like I want to have sex based on what I see, it's based on what I feel, and then any kind of fantasy tends to maybe put the guy OUT of that role in the day to day out of bed relationship and changes him into someone who is de-personalized from their self I have got to know and been attracted to. I guess maybe unlike what my therapist says, I am TOO attached, and cannot unattach in order to let a fantasy happen, as it's too much identity changing going on for my taste.

Maybe I will bring this up with my therapist, and ask her how her theory of attachment plays out in this kind of scenario?

For me a fantasy would be under the moonlight by a campfire. Something that doesn't change anyone's identity.

Aristotle

Im whipped but usually all my fantasies included my wife.

Caribbean Man

Many times I have asked my wife about her fantasies and she says that what we have is basically " her fantasy."
But I, on the other hand have always had another fantasy. Not that its anything big.
Maybe there is a connection with past sexual experiences and the fact that my mother was an extremely dominant woman.
Before marriage,most of my sexual partners were more than 5 years my senior.
My wife is also 2 yrs older than I.
My fantasies are always about older women .

sandc

I don't have to fantasize to have rewarding sex with my wife. Sometimes it is just about loving her and wanting to be close. Other times I do like the fantasy aspect. Mine vary but usually center on my wife but not always. Her fantasy usually involves multiple men but not always. I guess because we are so secure with each other the fantasy thing is not a big issue for us one way or the other.

__________________
From the desk of The Wrathful Lieutenant Vernon Thunderskull

Thinking of having an affair? Please think again.

Mavash.

I have fantasies but they all include my husband. And while he's yes middle aged I find him attractive. So its based on what I see AND what I feel.

Homemaker_Numero_Uno

Thanks. I think it's easy to find someone attractive when it's a total package deal (haha, I said package!)

I used to think my ex was attractive until I was able to see him for what he really was, then he became incredibly unattractive. After his abuse turned more overt (due to me getting therapy and learning to advocate and speak up for myself when things bothered me - as they should and did...), he exposed a manipulative and brutal side of himself.

Probably once I am able to have more confidence in my assessment of someone's personality it would be easier to indulge in fantasies. Fantasies involve knowing for sure who your partner is, before you can transform him/her into being 'different' in your mind...have the experience (or leave it as a fantasy) and then get back to the core being of your partner.

I guess with my ex, the fantasies he expressed were too interfering with reality. Even when I told him not to say to me that he thought I was interested sexually in my older son's best friend, or having sex with a woman friend (or two, or three, etc.) that I had, or some young adult a group of us had befriended at the gym...he would continue to do this. (He continued to do a lot of abusive behavior that I explained to him wasn't okay, like taking sausages at the grocery store and doing and saying lewd things to me in public with them...in front of other people and sometimes when there were children in the aisle...etc.)

I guess when it comes to a partner's fantasies, I need to understand that my ex's fantasies really weren't fantasies that were appropriate or considerate. He might have kept a lot of that to himself. And respected my boundaries. But I do think a lot of that was straight out abuse, because I ended up censoring myself heavily so that I would feel guilty if I so much as smiled or bantered with any guy, like at the dump where the guys were really kind to me, and supportive, or at the post office where the postmaster and I would talk about an owl we had that covered the territory between the hill his house was on, and mine...etc. Small town stuff. I am used to being friends with older guys, I lost my father when I was a teenager and there have always been older guys who stepped in to help me with stuff without any sexual things or conversation going on, because they are nice people. I can feel the difference between someone who is just trying to get in my pants and someone who is genuinely stepping in to look after me when I need some support or help. My husband would say no they were not helping they wanted to get in your pants.

That's like saying there are no Christians in the world, or moral people. I know that for a fact it's not true.

Anyway, this is an interesting thread for me and very helpful, please add thoughts.

So if someone has a fantasy and shares it with a partner, there is definitely a time and place to do that, and if the partner says that no, she/he can't entertain that fantasy, it is too disruptive to day to day life, or please leave so and so out of it because I work/work out with him/her or value that friendship with him/her or that friend of son's spends a lot of time at our house so leave that alone, please stop verbalizing and do not make eyes or gestures at me when son's friend is visiting and I talk to him or have helped him with engine trouble in his vehicle... and it continues then that is not okay if it continues. It's like his fantasy (if it was a fantasy) involved me being some kind of sex addict wanting to scr*w everyone in my life and always having sexual thoughts...which I do not. Far from it, which is why I asked him to stop saying stuff like that. He would say it in any kind of conversation, not when we were having a talk about fantasies, but if I was talking about the person, like I'm getting together with K and her kids on Saturday at the playground, he would ask if we were going to go in the woods together. I would tell him no stop it, we are getting together with the kids to play and it's helpful for her if I can watch one kid if she has to change the other (kid with disability, and the younger one toilet training...) and he would say well you are spending a lot of time with her, you must want her, and I'd say no I enjoy having a friend to do things with our kids together...and he would say well she is hot so you can't blame me for having the thought, come on tell me you never think of it, and I would say, not until you mentioned it, no, and now it is disruptive to the time I spend with her, so please stop and don't mention that again, she is a friend and I do not want to have sex with her, not alone and not in a threesome. Then he would say, well, how about me and her then? At which point I would say, please stop, you are going too far and this is upsetting to me. He would say, I was only joking, you can't take a joke.

I'm really coming up empty in terms of fantasies.
I'm stuck in grade school when it comes to that.
But come to think of it, I DID used to have fantasies but it was a real long time ago when I was a kid. I used to have a fantasy about that kid who was the Rifleman's son, on t.v. he was real cute and rode a horse quite well Then life happened, and my fantasies became escaping and growing up and having a healthy married/adult/intimate relationship. I had two weeks of that, and I think even that might have missed the mark, so want to try again.

This fantasy thing seems to be a key. I misplaced my ability to fantasize, but I am real sure I used to have it, if I can find the path to where the ability is, I'll be a happy camper.

Please add info if you can offer any.

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

Same here!

chillymorn

I think alot of women fantisize about the romance part.
how prince charming sweeps them off their feet even thought they are rejecting or making him wait with lot of sexuall tension and then finally when they do have sex its mind blowing because this fictional man knows just what she likes and will let her crap all over him but because he loves her unconditionaly he just keeps take her crap and then have undieing desire for her.

and then the real world smacks her in the face

deejov

LOL chillymorn
I know what you mean.

Until somewhere along the way, I had a long time partner that wasn't marriage material, but we dated for a few years.

We had a comfort level in the bedroom. Fantasies were allowed to be thought of, and it felt safe to express them.

Before that period of time in my life, I felt the same way as Homemaker. Ewwww. That's not right. Those kinds of thought never ocurred to me.

IDK, it's like once you feel safe and comfortable, your mind feels free to express it.

MrsOldNews

I love to fantasize but never have about anything to that effect. Lots of women out there don't need or want a prince charming type. To me it's unappealing on many different levels. I think the prince charming fantasy is more prevalent in young women. Like high school age, before the reality of life hits lol.

Homemaker_Numero_Uno

I never had any fantasies that involved being swept off my feet or crapping all over a guy. When I was abandoned by parents I went right to work, literally. I never fantasized even about getting married and I think this might have confused a lot of men I dated until I did want to get married. I was on a completely different page altogether, even now I don't fantasized about getting swept off my feet, in my mind having a relationship is an issue of letting someone into my life and sharing, and being let into someone else's life and sharing...but not intruding or sucking up all available time and losing the ability to be one's self.

My early reading involved characters like Ali Baba, or characters like Kim in Rudyard Kipling's book, or The Boxcar Children, The Secret Garden. Stuff like Snow White I would be like, wow, I don't know about keeping house for 7 grown men who are dwarves, it sounds really intrusive and highly sketchy. When reading stuff like Cinderella I'd think, hmmmm, did she have no friends to get hand me down dresses from as I did...and what if she did not like the Prince, or wasn't attracted to him, just because the shoe fits she has got to marry him, and high heel shoes are usually so uncomfortable and why do women wear them, they can't wear them in the woods or to ride a bicycle (I learned differently in China, lol, little old ladies go everywhere in high heel shoes, including walking up mountains...and up on the Great Wall) and they always complain about how they hurt. In effect, I had no fantasies about any of those princess stories. When my brothers and I played cowboys and Indians, I would be an Indian and braid my hair and I made a spear out of a long stick, stripping the bark off and whittling in designs and coloring in with berry juice. My brother taunted me that it would not work well as a spear and even if it did I would have bad aim so he stood still while I threw and proved him otherwise (my brothers all molested me from an early age) and threw it true and he ended up getting stitches I think. My mother took my spear away from me, later my hair was cut so no more braids, she put it in a big braid and I got a pixie cut and she took the braid and put it in a drawer where she kept journals and stuff...

I have been growing my hair long. Yesterday it was good to be out on the river paddling, like a real Indian. (I am part native American, on my father's side...) I guess if I had to have a fantasy it would be something like being an Indian, but not Pocohantas who became White and went to England. I would instead capture and convert a missionary, lol. Oh wait, there was a film made about a woman who did capture a Mormon missionary and tried to 'rescue' him...so scratch that! ROFL.

I have been growing my hair out :-)
Pow-wow is happening in a month or so!
In my fantasy I am wearing war paint.
In reality there is a bow and arrows by my bed.
What's up with that?