Sex in MarriageSexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.
View Poll Results: Do chronically refused spouses have the right to cheat?
Re: Do you condone cheating if a spouse willingly refuses sex?
I, too, believe in the tenants of my marriage vows. In my situation, there is more than enough circumstantial evidence that my STBXW was cheating both before and after our separation, by engaging in both EA's and PA's.
While she must not have been paying full attention to them when they were said, I'm true to my wedding vows, as well as to the great institution of marriage, even to this very day. At least when I professed those vows before God, my church, my family, my friends, and my community, I meant them! And I will continue to abide by that promise and richly honor them up until such time that the ink is fastly dried on that divorce decree.
Divorce is the only acceptable remedy in trying to find another heart who will love you for who you truly are, both psychologically and physically!
Re: Do you condone cheating if a spouse willingly refuses sex?
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Originally Posted by Havesomethingtosay
I love everyone saying no. SO f'ing easy...... In every sexless relationship the partners are aware of it and it is discussed. If 100% sexless (or say less then 6X/yr) the LD partner almost always says "go take care or yourself" or words to that affect.
The LD partner in the vast majority of cases want to be left alone.
And that I would understand. For me, though, it would mean never going back. If they are telling you NO in a way that is forever, I would take them up on it. But I wouldn't go back either. It would be the beginning of the end.
Re: Do you condone cheating if a spouse willingly refuses sex?
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Originally Posted by SprucHub
You are making complete sense to me. Most people are saying that the aggreived spouse must seek a divorce. I do not see why. If one side repudiates an agreement, and it is understood that the agreement is unfixable, then the other side no longer owes the first party anything under the agreement. While the long term implication is that the relationship is heading for a divorce, if one party denies the other sex without clear good reason (e.g., medical) and the attendant affection that accompanies sex, the denier should expect that the other person will look elsewhere. If your job stopped paying you without firing you, they should assume you'll look for work elsewhere.
hard to argue with this!
but I think its better to cut to the chase and just divorce. and alot of time when the unwilling spouce sees your serious about divorce they change there tune!
Re: Do you condone cheating if a spouse willingly refuses sex?
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Originally Posted by PBear
As someone else said, two wrongs do not make a right. In the same way as it wouldn't be right for a betrayed spouse to physically abuse his spouse upon finding out about her affair (as an example).
It is very unfortunate that as a spouse who's been "cut off", your options are limited and undesirable. Trust me, all this went through my head. I finally (foolishly) thought that if I could have my sexual needs met, I could hang in the marriage until the kids were out of the house. But what I ended up finding out was that it wasn't just sex I was missing, but the intimacy that goes along with it. I lasted all of about a month before I determined that I needed to end the affairs and my marriage.
My advice is still "get out". An affair is a hollow shell of a relationship. And it will only serve to drive the wedge between the two spouses even deeper. Bite the bullet, get out and heal yourself, then find someone that really loves you. Lifes to short to do things half-assed. Full ass all the way!
C
thats the rub sometime it takes an affair to get to this point! and in your case you might very well still be in your loveless/sexless marriage if you didn't cheat and see what you were missing it opened your eyes so to speak.
cheating is wrong and we all know it! but the world is very seldom black and white.
Re: Do you condone cheating if a spouse willingly refuses sex?
Wouldn't it be wonderful if everything in life was so clear cut?
Thou shalt not steal. What about if you have no money and havent eaten for 4 days and steal a loaf of bread?
Thou shalt not commit murder. What if an axe weilding madman is about to attack your 9yr old daughter, you pull a gun out and shoot him dead?
Thou shalt honour thy mother and father. What if your father consistantly sexually abused you?
I also took marriage vows, including 'foresaking all others' etc. You are saying, in effect, that you will not have sex with anyone else but your spouse. Very honourable and right......Providing your spouse DOES have sex with you....she/he is foresaking sex with others, NOT with you.
What should a man (or indeed woman) do if they are providing all the love, support etc the other spouse needs, wants etc but his (or her) sexual needs are being totally ignored?
Getting a divorce is the final straw. Sometimes a man (or woman) getting only sexual relief outside the marriage can actually make everything else in the marriage work.
How many of you read the above 'commandments' and the alternative sceanrios and said..well, yeah I can understand someone stealing a loaf of bread etc.....
Thou shalt not commit adultery. What if you are 'hungry' and not being 'fed' at home?
Many will say 'Ah!!...divorce first'
Axe man about to attack your daughter...you pull your gun out and are about to fire....then you suddenly remember you havent got a gun licence. What do you do, go and apply for one or just pull the trigger and worry about any possible consequences later?
Not everything in life is 'black and white'.....there IS a grey area.
Re: Do you condone cheating if a spouse willingly refuses sex?
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Originally Posted by DDC
No. You do not have the "right" to cheat on your partner. That's cowardly.
What you do have the "right" to do is get a divorce. That takes courage.
Then, in the future, work on yourself and make sure you and your future partner are sexually compatible before you get married again.
---
Most of the time when it's men not getting sex, it's because they aren't behaving like men and never did. All my partners have strived to please me, but then again, I would never dream of staying with - letting alone getting married to a person who would not. If you aren't a man who commands respect your wife won't have any for you and won't be attracted to you and won't want to have sex with you.
One size does not fit all. I couldn't disagree with this answer more.
Re: Do you condone cheating if a spouse willingly refuses sex?
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Originally Posted by Coffee Amore
I suppose this question assumes that they've tried everything under the sun to discover why the spouse who no longer wants to have sex is feeling that way. Assuming that they've gone to doctors, therapists, had heart to heart talks, looked at their own behavior and its impact on the relationship and nothing has changed, I think the spouses need to renegotiate the marriage.
When you get married where I did, you're asked to forsake all others which means your sexual options are limited as far as partners go. You both understand you can't have sex with other people while you're still married. That means going forward you have sex only with your spouse. The other side of this is each spouse is obligated to provide sex because after all the other spouse has agreed to remain sexually faithful only to them. We get married with the idea of sexual exclusivity with our spouses. Barring any abuse, disability or illness that makes sex impossible, I think it's cruel for one spouse to habitually deny the other spouse sex. Please note, I'm not talking about those days we all have where we're sick or too tired. I'm talking about folks who flat out refuse to have a sex life at all. Sex is part of the deal when one gets married unless you've both decided ahead of time that sex isn't exclusive to the marriage or your marriage is an asexual one. If you haven't agreed to take sex off the table, I can see why someone would leave the marriage because it's not what he or she expected when they got married. I can see how the partner who is constantly refused would feel unloved, unwanted, undesirable. That's dangerous for any marriage. If someone goes into marriage knowing they don't care about sex, they need to either not get married or get married to a like minded person who also doesn't care about sex.
Yet again you've encapsulated my perspective on the matter perfectly.
Re: Do you condone cheating if a spouse willingly refuses sex?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7737
Wouldn't it be wonderful if everything in life was so clear cut?
Thou shalt not steal. What about if you have no money and havent eaten for 4 days and steal a loaf of bread?
Thou shalt not commit murder. What if an axe weilding madman is about to attack your 9yr old daughter, you pull a gun out and shoot him dead?
Thou shalt honour thy mother and father. What if your father consistantly sexually abused you?
I also took marriage vows, including 'foresaking all others' etc. You are saying, in effect, that you will not have sex with anyone else but your spouse. Very honourable and right......Providing your spouse DOES have sex with you....she/he is foresaking sex with others, NOT with you.
What should a man (or indeed woman) do if they are providing all the love, support etc the other spouse needs, wants etc but his (or her) sexual needs are being totally ignored?
Getting a divorce is the final straw. Sometimes a man (or woman) getting only sexual relief outside the marriage can actually make everything else in the marriage work.
How many of you read the above 'commandments' and the alternative sceanrios and said..well, yeah I can understand someone stealing a loaf of bread etc.....
Thou shalt not commit adultery. What if you are 'hungry' and not being 'fed' at home?
Many will say 'Ah!!...divorce first'
Axe man about to attack your daughter...you pull your gun out and are about to fire....then you suddenly remember you havent got a gun licence. What do you do, go and apply for one or just pull the trigger and worry about any possible consequences later?
Not everything in life is 'black and white'.....there IS a grey area.
What does commitment really mean if you are setting yourself up with a backdoor going in? People today go into marriage with the idea that if it does not work out, that they can just cash in their chips with a divorce and find another. Which is why people don't put a whole lot of thought into getting married any more.
Re: Do you condone cheating if a spouse willingly refuses sex?
Why be married under those circumstances ?? Life is to short I feel to not be with a more compatable partner, medical issues are a different thing though I have not read the entire thread, however if everything else is ok we be with a partner that refuses to be intimate ?? I mean why be married you could get this by being single Just my opinion
Re: Do you condone cheating if a spouse willingly refuses sex?
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Originally Posted by DawnD
So instead of deciding your spouse isn't the person for you and filing for divorce, you would rather they lie and cheat. That way they can make an even bigger mess of things to deal with. Makes no sense to me.
Read my example of a situation where divorce is worse for the person being denied (post 29). In that case, the person is denied sex and could lose a significant portion of the time with his/her children. So a person gets sexually (and, therefore emotionally) rejected and as a bonus gets to lose seeing her children? My point is that the person that breaks the marriage vows (by purposefully denying a basic element of the relationship) is the person that should suffer as a consequence not the person living up to her vows.
Re: Do you condone cheating if a spouse willingly refuses sex?
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Originally Posted by SimplyAmorous
I can see WHY some fall into cheating, sorry, I happen to blame the refuser almost as much as the one who fell (in some cases)-- I know this is NOT correct thinking.....so don't blow your horn at me. I just feel the refuser hugely contributed to the problem... Pity sex is just as bad... anyone who can even stomach that -deserves a metal. I'd leave a marraige over that one too.
I agree, and will take it a step further. I do NOT believe what you posted above is incorrect thinking. I believe a spouse who willingly decides to end the sexual relationship with their spouse is equally as wrong as an adulterer. It is cruel, and epitomizes the notion of forsaking your spouse.
Do I believe you should cheat? No. You should leave (with the understanding that this idea is much easier said than done when you've built a life together). However I do sympathize with a person reaching out for comfort elsewhere when a cruel spouse has made a unilateral decision to end the sexual relationship, or diminish it so far that it might as well be considered over. If you leave you marriage sexually you have forsaken the right to have any involvement in the decision making of your spouse's sexual life.
It's just best in the forsaken spouse's interest to try and seek an end to the marriage. But that opens up a whole can of worms because people stay in marriages for reasons that extend beyond sex.
Re: Do you condone cheating if a spouse willingly refuses sex?
It seems to me that they key to this discussion is the definition of cheating. To me, this is what cheating means:
Going outside of the marriage for emotional or sexual gratification without the knowledge or endorsement of the other party.
That said, I happen to think that when one party ceases to meet the needs of the other party, this is a breach of the marriage contract. The key question is what you do about it.
The wedding vows/marriage contract specifies exclusivity. That means that within that agreement, the two parties are only to seek emotional and sexual fulfillment from each other. One party refusing to meet the sexual needs of the other violates the contract as much as an affair would.
And to me, going out and having a covert emotional or sexual affair outside the marriage isn't justifiable under any circumstances. In some instances, if the party who is withholding agrees that the other may seek fulfillment outside the marriage, and clearly communicates this to the other party, then that is an acceptable work-around.
Really, the best solution in most instances is to try to work it out. If that fails, then the next best solution is generally divorce. As terrible as many folks on TAM have made divorce out to be, there are plenty of folks (I know some of them) who are MUCH happier now that they are divorced, and their kids seem to have fared pretty well, too.
Communication is the key, much as it is the key for just about any sort of successful relationship.
Re: Do you condone cheating if a spouse willingly refuses sex?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SprucHub
Read my example of a situation where divorce is worse for the person being denied (post 29). In that case, the person is denied sex and could lose a significant portion of the time with his/her children. So a person gets sexually (and, therefore emotionally) rejected and as a bonus gets to lose seeing her children? My point is that the person that breaks the marriage vows (by purposefully denying a basic element of the relationship) is the person that should suffer as a consequence not the person living up to her vows.
I understand that, but why would you want to risk losing your children's respect and love just to get some strange, when you could end the marriage on good terms first and keep that?
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Re: Do you condone cheating if a spouse willingly refuses sex? 
