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Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

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Old 07-26-2012, 01:34 AM   #211 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stop begging, groveling, and working overtime for SEX from your SPOUSE!

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No doubt. If there was a way to gather up all the "enlightened" spouses on this board and have some sort of separate online support forum or even have a phone call with the withholding spouses...it would save so many marriages.
Probably not. I tend to think that most spouses encountering these problems know exactly what their spouses need but simply refuse to provide.
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Old 07-26-2012, 01:36 AM   #212 (permalink)
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Why on earth would you say that?

Honestly?

She already knows PERFECTLY WELL how you feel. She knows. And that means she DOES NOT CARE - about how YOU feel.

Guys - you are going to have to get better at this.

You simply ask her a single question: Would you be ok if I prioritized your highest needs the way you do mine?

That's it. There are only a few possible answers you will get:
1. NO (this means that you are expected to continue fully meeting her needs - don't respond - just start treating her needs as she treats yours)
2. YES (this is a type of challenge - to see if you will destabilize the marriage - don't respond - simply drop her to the bottom of the priority list)
3. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? This is not a question. She knows exactly what you mean. This is an attempt to get you talking, and ideally upset, so you say something foolish and she twists this into you being a mean/selfish/jerk. (shrug and don't respond - she knows exactly what you mean - same action as in one and two above)
4. SILENCE (this is a very powerful response - it means that she is not going to discuss the imbalance in the relationship. And further that you are not even worthy of a response or acknowledgement - remain silent and deprioritize her)
5. Some version of attacking you: Typically with - oh - so this is about SEX again. (Don't respond - deprioritize her)
The only legitimate response to your question is an engaged - caring - concerned about YOU response. If you get that - keep it very short. And point out that you look forward to seeing quick, substantial improvements in how much effort she shows you.


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Simple. You tell your spouse "the way you treat me, I truly feel that you could go the rest of your life without truly fulfilling me sexually and not care".
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Old 07-26-2012, 01:53 AM   #213 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stop begging, groveling, and working overtime for SEX from your SPOUSE!

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Somewhere along the line the man needs to step up and be a man. I think that's what all women want and are waiting for. without being an a@@hole about it, of course, but be the man ask for and expect respect and find a way for your W to appreciate what you bring to the table.
I wish that were true. I'm sure it's true in many cases, but in some cases the woman just does not want to be bothered.

I had suspected (and then had it confirmed) by the ex that she never liked me sexually but married me to achieve her goals for status and comfort. Rather than chasing my tail or just sucking it up, I started to send a consistent message that she had a responsibility to me and I would not pretend I was happy. A couple of times she got nasty and I refused to cow down.

Did it get me laid more? Not really. What did happen? She called me out as abusive in several of our divorce documents and to everyone that would listen.
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Old 07-26-2012, 04:55 AM   #214 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stop begging, groveling, and working overtime for SEX from your SPOUSE!

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DTO,
I think perhaps it is best to look at this from both sides - juxtaposed:

Woman: I like to receive acts of service. They make me feel loved. When I ask my H to do something, and he does a good job and is clearly happy to do something that makes me feel loved - that is a big deal. This is different than hiring someone as that is abstract and perhaps could seem as if my H:
- does not see this as a way to show me love and instead
- sees it as a problem that he can make "go away" by throwing money at it

I am not suggesting this is fair - I am saying it is a "common" reaction.

H: I like sex. I am not allowed to have it with anyone else. You aren't giving me enough so I am going to:
- Chase you
- Do an ever increasing number of ridiculous things to try to get you to have sex with me
- Believe your ever more ludicrous excuses, complaints and outright deceptions on this topic because - I WANT to believe them
- Tolerate a level of rejection that is degrading and humiliating
- Have children with you - despite all your insincere statements and broken promises
- Have more children with you
- Allow you to morph into a total bltch - maybe allow isn't the right word - REWARD you for doing so by putting ever more effort into getting less and less sex

Flooded with desire, it isn't obvious that this behavior:
- destroys respect and with it any notion of reciprocity
- communicates that YOU believe you really don't deserve to be her partner
- demonstrates a lack of determination that she treat you even close to the way she DEMANDS you treat her

Her perception of this can be summarized as: She has chosen A partner who is weak/needy and easily intimidated. A partner who will trade a lot of self respect for a small amount of sex.

Weakness, fear and a lack of self respect may be the single biggest factors in creating sexual aversion in a woman.

Once that happens - the emotional level of effort required for her to have sex can only be compared to washing dishes/house work - when the housework being requested is creating an abusive imbalance in total level of effort in the marriage.



Once women smell fear and desperation,it creates an unnecessary power differential in the relationship. Whenever there is a disagreement,more often that not,the one with the most power gets their way. From there its a downward spiral.

NEVER do chores to get sex.
STOP begging for oral and anal sex.
KNOW the mind of the woman who is your wife.

Last edited by Caribbean Man; 07-26-2012 at 05:03 AM.
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Old 07-26-2012, 07:13 AM   #215 (permalink)
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From many of the posts in this thread, I can see exactly why the OP posted this thread in the first place.
It's a wonder that people even manage to have sex at all with all the "I need this in order to want to have sex" issues going on.
I've never, ever needed anything more than the desire to have sex, my libido isn't tied into my husband doing chores or whatever mind game is needed, it's tied into my husband, period.
I had sex with other men prior to meeting my husband, I also didn't need them to provide services in order to get me in the mood, so why would I expect my husband to do that just to get me to have sex with him?
Too much pressure, too much wheeling & dealing, too much thinking about something that should be a natural response to the chemistry between two people.
And why is your libido tied into your husband? What is the reason you have "natural chemistry" with him in the first place? Is it more than a pure sexual attraction?

I guess it all depends on what you define as "services." For me chemistry is more than my husband's penis, his perfect hands, or even his warm smile. When we were dating my husband courted me, flirted with me, uplifted me, and generally made me feel good about myself. I admired him as a person, and I still do. And YES he did things for me too. If I was having a bad day, he did what he could to help me then, and he does what he can to help me now. Now (because it's where we are in life with small children) that often means helping with household duties and kids.

You've never needed anything more "than your desire to have sex?" I think many women (at least many of the women that I know) are a little more complicated than that. Desire (for many women and men) involves more than pure sexual libido. Forgive me if I'm being, er, obtuse.
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:29 AM   #216 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stop begging, groveling, and working overtime for SEX from your SPOUSE!

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And why is your libido tied into your husband? What is the reason you have "natural chemistry" with him in the first place? Is it more than a pure sexual attraction?

I guess it all depends on what you define as "services." For me chemistry is more than my husband's penis, his perfect hands, or even his warm smile. When we were dating my husband courted me, flirted with me, uplifted me, and generally made me feel good about myself. I admired him as a person, and I still do. And YES he did things for me too. If I was having a bad day, he did what he could to help me then, and he does what he can to help me now. Now (because it's where we are in life with small children) that often means helping with household duties and kids.

You've never needed anything more "than your desire to have sex?" I think many women (at least many of the women that I know) are a little more complicated than that. Desire (for many women and men) involves more than pure sexual libido. Forgive me if I'm being, er, obtuse.
Yeah, it's pretty simple, I like sex & I don't use it as a weapon/game/ploy.
I don't "need" my husband to jump through hoops, to get me aroused, him being him is all it takes.
He's as Alpha as they come, maybe being married to an Alpha is what does it for me, who knows, but I do know, it doesn't matter one bit to me whether or not he takes the trash out, does the dishes, I'm going to have sex with him because I want to have sex.

Now, if that's something you can't understand, that's on you, you see I don't have hang ups when it comes to my sexuality, my libido is not tied into having to have a "perfect storm" of my neediness assuaged before I get down.
Maybe this is why you can't understand that for some, sex is very important, because they feel the pure physical & biological need for sex, while you're the type who needs the star to align perfectly before you decide to have sex.
It is what it is.
That's the difference, I don't "decide" to have sex, I HAVE sex because I WANT to have sex, I'm driven to want to fck my husband.
Can't get more simple than that.
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:45 AM   #217 (permalink)
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Yeah, it's pretty simple, I like sex & I don't use it as a weapon/game/ploy.
I don't "need" my husband to jump through hoops, to get me aroused, him being him is all it takes.
He's as Alpha as they come, maybe being married to an Alpha is what does it for me, who knows, but I do know, it doesn't matter one bit to me whether or not he takes the trash out, does the dishes, I'm going to have sex with him because I want to have sex.

Now, if that's something you can't understand, that's on you, you see I don't have hang ups when it comes to my sexuality, my libido is not tied into having to have a "perfect storm" of my neediness assuaged before I get down.
Maybe this is why you can't understand that for some, sex is very important, because they feel the pure physical & biological need for sex, while you're the type who needs the star to align perfectly before you decide to have sex.
It is what it is.
That's the difference, I don't "decide" to have sex, I HAVE sex because I WANT to have sex, I'm driven to want to fck my husband.
Can't get more simple than that.
I understand what you are saying. And for the record, I don't use sex as a "weapon, game, ploy," either. It's wonderful that you have such a high natural drive, and that you are so perfectly in charge of your sexuality.

Unfortunately, it's just not that simple for all lot of other women (and maybe some men as well). I have to work a lot harder than my husband to even get close to having an orgasm. I'm not just a "switch" that turns on at the sight of him. I don't think this makes me less of a person, and even less of a "sexual being"--just different. And just as I respect my husband's need for sex, he needs to understand and respect this as well (and he does).

And if you carefully read my posts, you'd see that I've said many times that I DO understand that sex is an integral part of marriage. Just because I'm not driven to "fck" my husband at the drop of the hat does not mean that I have "hang ups when it comes to my sexuality." And sex for me is NOT contingent upon "having to have a "perfect storm" of my neediness assuaged before I get down." If that was the case, we'd never have sex around here. Believe me on that.
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:00 AM   #218 (permalink)
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I understand what you are saying. And for the record, I don't use sex as a "weapon, game, ploy," either. It's wonderful that you have such a high natural drive, and that you are so perfectly in charge of your sexuality.

Unfortunately, it's just not that simple for all lot of other women (and maybe some men as well). I have to work a lot harder than my husband to even get close to having an orgasm. I'm not just a "switch" that turns on at the sight of him. I don't think this makes me less of a person, and even less of a "sexual being"--just different. And just as I respect my husband's need for sex, he needs to understand and respect this as well (and he does).

And if you carefully read my posts, you'd see that I've said many times that I DO understand that sex is an integral part of marriage. Just because I'm not driven to "fck" my husband at the drop of the hat does not mean that I have "hang ups when it comes to my sexuality." And sex for me is NOT contingent upon "having to have a "perfect storm" of my neediness assuaged before I get down." If that was the case, we'd never have sex around here. Believe me on that.
Okay, well there you go, for some people it's difficult to get in a sexual place, for others it's not & for others they use sex as a bargaining chip.

Going back to the OP's point of this thread, there are those who have to jump through hoops with their partner in order to have sex.
It's tough to dispute that for some, they have to navigate a mindfield of negotiating just to have sex & that's why this thread was started in the first place.
I think that if someone has to have their partner go through a series of either explicit or implicit demands in order to have sex, then that person could very well have more issues going on than arousal.
For them, it could very well be a weapon/game/ploy against their partner.
When someone doesn't have sex with their partner for months or even years, there is something more going on within that person than just not having sex.
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:10 AM   #219 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stop begging, groveling, and working overtime for SEX from your SPOUSE!

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And why is your libido tied into your husband? What is the reason you have "natural chemistry" with him in the first place? Is it more than a pure sexual attraction?

I guess it all depends on what you define as "services." For me chemistry is more than my husband's penis, his perfect hands, or even his warm smile. When we were dating my husband courted me, flirted with me, uplifted me, and generally made me feel good about myself. I admired him as a person, and I still do. And YES he did things for me too. If I was having a bad day, he did what he could to help me then, and he does what he can to help me now. Now (because it's where we are in life with small children) that often means helping with household duties and kids.

You've never needed anything more "than your desire to have sex?" I think many women (at least many of the women that I know) are a little more complicated than that. Desire (for many women and men) involves more than pure sexual libido. Forgive me if I'm being, er, obtuse.



Need I say more?
The question now should be;
"...What causes a normal woman to LOSE that sexual attraction AFTER marriage...."
Therin lies the truth.
Figure it out ,and all of the hoops , games and shenanigans in lieu of sex, will be non existent.

Last edited by Caribbean Man; 07-26-2012 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:21 AM   #220 (permalink)
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Okay, well there you go, for some people it's difficult to get in a sexual place, for others it's not & for others they use sex as a bargaining chip.

Going back to the OP's point of this thread, there are those who have to jump through hoops with their partner in order to have sex.
It's tough to dispute that for some, they have to navigate a mindfield of negotiating just to have sex & that's why this thread was started in the first place.
I think that if someone has to have their partner go through a series of either explicit or implicit demands in order to have sex, then that person could very well have more issues going on than arousal.
For them, it could very well be a weapon/game/ploy against their partner.
When someone doesn't have sex with their partner for months or even years, there is something more going on within that person than just not having sex.
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:33 AM   #221 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stop begging, groveling, and working overtime for SEX from your SPOUSE!

"...What causes a normal woman to LOSE that sexual attraction AFTER marriage...."
Therin lies the truth.
Figure it out ,and all of the hoops , games and shenanigans in lieu of sex, will be non existent."

I don't know if I believe this. I think a lot of what causes the hoops, games and shenanigans are power struggles over who is the "boss" in the partnership. I say it again: I think only one person can be in charge at any given time (i.e. "the man") and that person should generally be the man. For various and sundry reasons, not the least of which that is what women Really want: a real man who leads them, takes care of them and will fight for and defend them (and the family, by extension.)

It doesn't mean he is in charge of everything at all times and it doesn't mean he needs to abuse his position of "boss" but in general, he leads, he makes the big decisions (with input) and he does the heavy lifting and defending if necessary.

The hoops games and shenanigans are just ruses that the women put out there to see and "test" if they are in charge. "Let's see if I can get him to do what I say, to do it how I want it ... can I be in charge of him here? ... how about here? ... here?" These are not "needs" they are tests to see if there is a power vacuum there that she can take a little power real estate. Over time it's more and more and more until her demands are totally unreasonable, the man is completely emasculated in every area and NO ONE is getting what they want, much less do they any more have a Clue what it is they DO want.

Some needs are reasonable and should be addressed by the husband. Some needs are reasonable and should be addressed by the wife herself. Some needs are totally out of bounds unreasonable and illogical and someone needs to be the one to call BS when they pop up. It won't be her.
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:42 AM   #222 (permalink)
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"...What causes a normal woman to LOSE that sexual attraction AFTER marriage...."
Therin lies the truth.
Figure it out ,and all of the hoops , games and shenanigans in lieu of sex, will be non existent."

I don't know if I believe this. I think a lot of what causes the hoops, games and shenanigans are power struggles over who is the "boss" in the partnership. I say it again: I think only one person can be in charge at any given time (i.e. "the man") and that person should generally be the man. For various and sundry reasons, not the least of which that is what women Really want: a real man who leads them, takes care of them and will fight for and defend them (and the family, by extension.)

It doesn't mean he is in charge of everything at all times and it doesn't mean he needs to abuse his position of "boss" but in general, he leads, he makes the big decisions (with input) and he does the heavy lifting and defending if necessary.

The hoops games and shenanigans are just ruses that the women put out there to see and "test" if they are in charge. "Let's see if I can get him to do what I say, to do it how I want it ... can I be in charge of him here? ... how about here? ... here?" These are not "needs" they are tests to see if there is a power vacuum there that she can take a little power real estate. Over time it's more and more and more until her demands are totally unreasonable, the man is completely emasculated in every area and NO ONE is getting what they want, much less do they any more have a Clue what it is they DO want.
Some needs are reasonable and should be addressed by the husband. Some needs are reasonable and should be addressed by the wife herself. Some needs are totally out of bounds unreasonable and illogical and someone needs to be the one to call BS when they pop up. It won't be her.

That's spot on, I can see how there could be a power struggle in the dynamic of a relationship, which could really just mean passive aggressive behavior.
Instead of expressing what they want, someone will use PA to control the situation.
So sad & such a waste, life is just too short, know what I mean?
If you want something, ask for it, if you're not getting it, then maybe you're not with the right person.
At the end of the day, "love" can only do so much in a relationship, if your partner isn't meeting you at least half way, you may need to reevaluate why you're with the person to begin with.
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:47 AM   #223 (permalink)
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That's spot on, I can see how there could be a power struggle in the dynamic of a relationship, which could really just mean passive aggressive behavior.
Instead of expressing what they want, someone will use PA to control the situation.
So sad & such a waste, life is just too short, know what I mean?
If you want something, ask for it, if you're not getting it, then maybe you're not with the right person.
At the end of the day, "love" can only do so much in a relationship, if your partner isn't meeting you at least half way, you may need to reevaluate why you're with the person to begin with.
It is sad if it becomes a power struggle. That's why there needs to be balance with BOTH partners working to meet the different needs of the other.
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:53 AM   #224 (permalink)
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A woman can only trust her man to lead the household if he is trustworthy and shows he is capable of leading the family.

I couldn't trust that my ex would always have our family first in his mind. I couldn't trust him with leading us or being the head of anything. I had to take the brunt of that, and I didn't like it. That's just me.

I trust H to have our family's best interest at heart...while he's flubbed up a couple times, that's just life. Learn and move on. I like the traditional roles in our home, it makes me feel more secure. Even though I work outside the home, I still prefer he is the one 'wearing the pants'. It makes him feel good too. Proud rooster struttin' his stuff We're honestly just big dorks around here, but I respect his leadership because I TRUST it. We talk and discuss big issues/decisions, and listen to the others concerns, ideas, and usually come to a good consensus, but sometimes he just makes decisions, and i like it. It's sexy to me.
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:00 AM   #225 (permalink)
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A woman can only trust her man to lead the household if he is trustworthy and shows he is capable of leading the family.

I couldn't trust that my ex would always have our family first in his mind. I couldn't trust him with leading us or being the head of anything. I had to take the brunt of that, and I didn't like it. That's just me.

I trust H to have our family's best interest at heart...while he's flubbed up a couple times, that's just life. Learn and move on. I like the traditional roles in our home, it makes me feel more secure. Even though I work outside the home, I still prefer he is the one 'wearing the pants'. It makes him feel good too. Proud rooster struttin' his stuff We're honestly just big dorks around here, but I respect his leadership because I TRUST it. We talk and discuss big issues/decisions, and listen to the others concerns, ideas, and usually come to a good consensus, but sometimes he just makes decisions, and i like it. It's sexy to me.
I agree. On some things, I wish DH would take more of an assertive, leadership role. I'm naturally a type "A" personality, and he's very easy-going so sometimes I'm like "what IS your opinion on this? What do you want to do? What ARE we going to do?"

But I don't think it makes a man less of a leader if he helps his wife with the house and if he realizes that she has needs that he needs to meet as well. If anything, this makes him MORE of a leader because he is illustrating how it is important to prioritize his spouse's needs. If the wife sees THIS, she is more likely to follow.
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