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Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

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Old 07-24-2012, 02:41 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stop begging, groveling, and working overtime for SEX from your SPOUSE!

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Originally Posted by ocotillo View Post
I think every spouse is definitely entitled to have their partner pull their own weight and do their fair share of the work.

People speak of sex as a reasonable expectation and 'right' in marriage because of the vow of exclusivity that is generally a precondition of marriage.

If for example, we had to take a solemn vow to only ever eat food that our spouse provided and this was a precondition of marriage to them, we would be in a real pickle if they decided farther down the road that they didn't need to feed us.

Sex and food are obviously not perfectly comparable, but we do make a similar vow in regard to sex.
I do not think sex should be put on a higher pedestal of "marital rights." Who is to say that sex is a greater need than affection or acts of service? You do take a vow of sexual exclusivity when you marry, but you also take a vow to get your needs for affection met by your spouse as well. For some wives (and husbands) sex is not their greatest need.

And I think that most modern women and moms enter into marriage with the expectation (whether voiced or not) that their husbands will share a responsibility with the babies that they bear and the unending housework.
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:03 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stop begging, groveling, and working overtime for SEX from your SPOUSE!

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Okay, my love language is "acts of service." So is it then my RIGHT (as you say) to have my husband lovingly do the dishes, change my baby's poopy diaper, and do other tasks on a regular basis? Am I entitled to that?
Of course sharing in duties is a RIGHT in a marriage. But what does this even have to do with my thread, especially when the OP clearly talks about people who are already validating their spouses in non-sexual ways?

You are free to make a thread about how you believe marriage entitles you to have dishes washed, diapers changed, and other tasks on a regular basis. Meanwhile this thread is about SEX on a the SEX forum.

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I do not think sex should be put on a higher pedestal of "marital rights." Who is to say that sex is a greater need than affection or acts of service? You do take a vow of sexual exclusivity when you marry, but you also take a vow to get your needs for affection met by your spouse as well. For some wives (and husbands) sex is not their greatest need.

And I think that most modern women and moms enter into marriage with the expectation (whether voiced or not) that their husbands will share a responsibility with the babies that they bear and the unending housework.
Nobody said sex was on a "higher pedestal". People are talking about sex because, again, this is a SEX thread. The topic of this thread is about SEX. You continue to try and debate a point that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the topic of this thread. Clearly you have some strong feelings about service acts not being met, and again perhaps you should start your own thread to voice those concerns.
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:09 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stop begging, groveling, and working overtime for SEX from your SPOUSE!

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Of course sharing in duties is a RIGHT in a marriage. But what does this even have to do with my thread, especially when the OP clearly talks about people who are already validating their spouses in non-sexual ways?

You are free to make a thread about how you believe marriage entitles you to have dishes washed, diapers changed, and other tasks on a regular basis. Meanwhile this thread is about SEX on a the SEX forum.
I don't think I'm veering so far off topic as you so emphatically proclaim, Jaquen. Your OP was about how sex is a basic RIGHT that you are entitled to in marriage. In my response, I was attempting to illustrate how this statement can basically lead to a tit-for-tat marriage.

For the record, I do not think that it is my RIGHT as a wife to expect my husband to do chores around the house. Nor is it his RIGHT that I have regular sex with him. However, I can tell that both things DO happen on a regular basis. Why? Because we love each other and we truly want to make the other person happy. He wants to lighten my load at home, and I to give him sexual gratification.

You say that I am getting all caught up in "semantics." Well, this is an online environment where words are all we have. I do believe semantics are important--very important. We don't think in terms of "rights" and "entitlements" in our marriage. We try to think in terms of--how can I make the one I love happy?

I don't think you give wrong advice in advising people to "stop begging" for sex. I agree that it doesn't work. But if people start thinking of sex as a "right" in marriage, that is not going to help anything either.
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:14 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stop begging, groveling, and working overtime for SEX from your SPOUSE!

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O



Nobody said sex was on a "higher pedestal". People are talking about sex because, again, this is a SEX thread. The topic of this thread is about SEX. You continue to try and debate a point that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the topic of this thread. Clearly you have some strong feelings about service acts not being met, and again perhaps you should start your own thread to voice those concerns.
Thank you for reminding me of that Jaquen. I do fully understand that I can start another thread. I can see that you have strong feelings about this topic as well. Honestly, I am not meaning to hijack your thread. I do not mean any offense or to make you angry or frustrated. I was just sharing my thoughts on sex as "RIGHT" in marriage.
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:28 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stop begging, groveling, and working overtime for SEX from your SPOUSE!

I was not angry, not at all. Just...baffled.

And it's wonderful that you and your husband have needs met. But I disagree with you that it's not helpful for people to feel they are entitled to sex.

Do you so the unbelievable number of people on this board who are jumping through hoops, begging, screaming, crying, and bargaining for sex? A lot of people on this board have not come to the understanding that they are, indeed, entitled to a sexual relationship with their spouse. IMO too many people around here are acting like sex is a bargaining chip, or a rare gift, or something to be worked extra hard to achieve solely as a "reward".

Maybe if some of these people realized that they DESERVE sex, and that it's their spouses duty to provide that sex to them, just as it is their duty to love, cherish, and honor, than maybe they'd get off the merry go round of frustration, pain, and anger, and start either putting their foot down and changing things, or ponying up to leave.
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:45 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stop begging, groveling, and working overtime for SEX from your SPOUSE!

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I do not think sex should be put on a higher pedestal of "marital rights." Who is to say that sex is a greater need than affection or acts of service?
Well people are definitely as different as snowflakes and individual perceptions may vary.

Regardless, nothing else in marriage has quite the same legal and moral considerations attached to it as sex.

If a couple has the means, they can hire a nanny to diaper their child(ren) or a maid to do the dishes and other tasks. It's expensive, but there is nothing inherently wrong with it legally and morally.

Sex, in contrast is directly tied to the validity of the marriage covenant itself. Sex with our spouse consummates that covenant and sex with anyone else at any time breaches it. Hiring someone to fill that need is not only immoral, it is very much illegal as well.

Please don't misunderstand. I'm not trying to be callous. Nobody likes to feel used and nobody likes to think that their spouse only wants them for their own selfish pleasure. I get that.

But when we talk about sex in marriage, we're talking about something unique and on a different ethical plane entirely.
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:49 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stop begging, groveling, and working overtime for SEX from your SPOUSE!

"But if people start thinking of sex as a "right" in marriage, that is not going to help anything either. "

This is wrong.

A man gets married to the woman that he fell in love with which means he wants to have sex with her all the time.

The REASON a man gets married is to have guaranteed all the sex he wants with that woman.

My DH announced this to me on Day #1 of our Honeymoon (a simple point of conversation and happy talk as he entered me from behind in our hotel room overlooking the Reuss River in Luzern, Switzerland) and I have NEVER forgotten it.

And yes, I agreed with him then and I agree with him now.

If you married a man, you made a contract to have sex with him when he wants it the way he wants it (within reason; consenting adults and all that; values, norms, you know what I mean.)

If you now are not acknowledging his right to sex in marriage then you are in the wrong. and I bet you know it and are waiting for him to call you on it.
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Old 07-24-2012, 05:16 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stop begging, groveling, and working overtime for SEX from your SPOUSE!

I think people are entitled to have a spouse who is sexually attracted to them.
I'd rather be single than be with someone who doesn't desire me.

I think this dovetails with what jaq is saying. You shouldn't have to *work* for your spouse to be attracted to you anymore than you should have to work for your spouse to enjoy your company, or like talking to you, etc.
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Old 07-24-2012, 05:31 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stop begging, groveling, and working overtime for SEX from your SPOUSE!

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I don't believe in this. I do romantic things for my wife because I love her, and I want to express that to her. I have never, not even once, bought her a gift, or done something for her, with the expectation that things "might" heat up in the bedroom. I don't even have a language for that.

I don't believe in being constantly turned down, nor does my wife. Sure both of us are comfortable saying no, but the yeses far out way the noes. And we have sex because we enjoying making love to one another, connecting for the sake of sexual gratification, and emotional/spiritual release. Neither one of us acts a certain way outside the bedroom with the expectation that this "might" get us laid. There is no such thing as "things just might" in my marriage. The language is "things almost always will".
I'm a woman & I agree with you.
Sex is essential to a marriage, if you're not that into it, you probably shouldn't bother getting married, you can just have a bunch of "really" good friends instead.

I've seen too many woman use sex as game or like a carrot dangling in front of their husbands.
I married my husband because I wanted to spend the rest of my life with the sexiest, most irrestible MAN I had ever met, whom I still can't wait to jump his bones every time I can.
Sex is absolutely amazing, it makes you feel so good, why wouldn't somone want to feel like that all the time?
Excluding any physiology or physical reason barring having sex, I can't understand the laissez faire attitude so many people have regarding their married sex life.
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Old 07-24-2012, 06:03 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stop begging, groveling, and working overtime for SEX from your SPOUSE!

I think part of what is ignored here is - what do the two parties consider "essential" to life. breathing air. eating food. drinking water. and for men: sex. the problem is he can breathe and eat and drink on his own but he NEEDS a woman for sex.

he marries in expectation that now "he is complete" and can get the sex he needs in addition to the air, food and water.

but then the wife withholds sex.

this is where the marriage contract gets broken. doesn't matter the reasons the reasoning or the rationale. he needs sex and she has the power to withhold it. it's like if he lived in an iron lung and she had the plug in her hand and could remove it any time. would she?

why is it ok when its sex?
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Old 07-24-2012, 06:07 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stop begging, groveling, and working overtime for SEX from your SPOUSE!

I must be easy! I don't need gifts to have crazy hot sex with my H. Sex, to us, is like a good night kiss. It's just something we do and it's fun! Whether he brings gifts or not does not matter.
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Old 07-24-2012, 06:40 PM   #42 (permalink)
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"But if people start thinking of sex as a "right" in marriage, that is not going to help anything either. "

This is wrong.

A man gets married to the woman that he fell in love with which means he wants to have sex with her all the time.

The REASON a man gets married is to have guaranteed all the sex he wants with that woman.

My DH announced this to me on Day #1 of our Honeymoon (a simple point of conversation and happy talk as he entered me from behind in our hotel room overlooking the Reuss River in Luzern, Switzerland) and I have NEVER forgotten it.

And yes, I agreed with him then and I agree with him now.

If you married a man, you made a contract to have sex with him when he wants it the way he wants it (within reason; consenting adults and all that; values, norms, you know what I mean.)

If you now are not acknowledging his right to sex in marriage then you are in the wrong. and I bet you know it and are waiting for him to call you on it.
Wow. I hope there are other reasons that a man marries a woman. And no, personally, I don't feel that I am in the wrong for not viewing sex as a marital right. Where in the contract does it state "I will have sex with you whenever you want?" It is subject to interpretation.

I DO think that sex is important and vital to a healthy marriage. At the same time, I think that there are other things that are just as important. Sex is not everyone's love language.
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Old 07-24-2012, 06:42 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stop begging, groveling, and working overtime for SEX from your SPOUSE!

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Originally Posted by mina View Post
I think part of what is ignored here is - what do the two parties consider "essential" to life. breathing air. eating food. drinking water. and for men: sex. the problem is he can breathe and eat and drink on his own but he NEEDS a woman for sex.

he marries in expectation that now "he is complete" and can get the sex he needs in addition to the air, food and water.

but then the wife withholds sex.

this is where the marriage contract gets broken. doesn't matter the reasons the reasoning or the rationale. he needs sex and she has the power to withhold it. it's like if he lived in an iron lung and she had the plug in her hand and could remove it any time. would she?

why is it ok when its sex?
This really bothers me. Why do so many people compare sex to "water" and "air." I get that sex is very important. I believe that it is very important. But this isn't really an equal or fair comparison. You will not die if you do not have sex. Your marriage might. But you will not physically die.
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Old 07-24-2012, 06:47 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stop begging, groveling, and working overtime for SEX from your SPOUSE!

Opinions are like ... Everyone's got one. Here's mine. I think it is fun to set up a romantic evening for sex. I also think it is fun to just get down and dirty.
I think it is an expression of love to buy gifts and do things which are part of living with a spouse. None of us have to. It is a choice we make.
I think the things I have worked for have been more satisfying than the things which were just expected.
I think no two people are alike.
I think we have to work some at being happy with each other. Just step back and read this thread and you will see how different we all are. Some similar but, none the same.
I think anyone who is worth having sex with is worth a little effort to please.
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Old 07-24-2012, 06:49 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ocotillo View Post
Well people are definitely as different as snowflakes and individual perceptions may vary.

Regardless, nothing else in marriage has quite the same legal and moral considerations attached to it as sex.

If a couple has the means, they can hire a nanny to diaper their child(ren) or a maid to do the dishes and other tasks. It's expensive, but there is nothing inherently wrong with it legally and morally.

Sex, in contrast is directly tied to the validity of the marriage covenant itself. Sex with our spouse consummates that covenant and sex with anyone else at any time breaches it. Hiring someone to fill that need is not only immoral, it is very much illegal as well.

Please don't misunderstand. I'm not trying to be callous. Nobody likes to feel used and nobody likes to think that their spouse only wants them for their own selfish pleasure. I get that.

But when we talk about sex in marriage, we're talking about something unique and on a different ethical plane entirely.
I understand what you are saying here. I agree that sex is something that only the two of you as a married couple should share. In that sense, it is different than other marital "obligations." However, I do disagree that it is somehow more of a "right" and "obligation" than other marital duties.
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